Israel refuses to ban gay pride parade

[oberliner]

JERUSALEM -
Israel's attorney general refused to ban a gay pride parade in Jerusalem despite threats of violence from ultra-Orthodox Jews, instructing police and gay activists to try to work out a compromise, the police commander said Sunday.

A Justice Ministry statement said Attorney General Meni Mazuz ordered police to meet with gay activists "to work out a reasonable alternative proposal" for the march, set for Friday on a route through the middle of the city. The meeting is to take place Monday, gay activists said, and a compromise was likely.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061106/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_gay_pride;_ylt=AvrAjChL3rUIhw0kiUK_EXXMWM0F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. So the next time someone accuses Israel of being a theocracy

Let's remember this decision.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. But Ahmadinejad is a Great Leader. Iran is a Peaceful, Loving Place

http://towleroad.typepad.com/towleroad/2005/07/report_gay_yout.html

[IntiRaymi]

21. Israel is multifaceted.

I lived in Chicago. Loved it.
But, hey, the South side sucks!

[PrgressiveJ]

22. The Family of my EX ,lives in the South Side of Chicago.

Good people.

[IntiRaymi]

23. OK, I knew I'd catch it for that one. n.t.

[MrPrax]

25. And We Should!!!

Shall I start a new thread, or would you like to?

Israeli gay community cancels controversial parade

Jerusalem - After more than a week of protests by ultra-Orthodox Jews, Israel's homosexual community has cancelled its gay parade scheduled Friday in Jerusalem, Israel Radio reported.

In its stead, Jerusalem's Open House for gay, lesbians, bisexuals and trans-gender individuals will hold a closed demonstration inside a stadium on a university campus.

The organizers gave as the reason the 'security situation' in Israel. Police have expressed concern they would be unable to safeguard the parade because large forces are needed elsewhere in the country after Palestinian militants threatened to avenge Israel's deadly artillery strike in northern Gaza Wednesday, which killed 18 Palestinian civilians.

Monsters

Oh can't resist -- Theocracy, perhaps? Is the Vatican running Israel?

Vatican urges Israel to ban Jerusalem gay parade

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican has condemned a gay pride parade due to be held in Jerusalem on Friday as offensive to religious believers and urged Israeli authorities to stop it taking place.

"It is with bitterness that we have learned that the day after tomorrow, November 10, 2006, there is scheduled in Jerusalem a so-called 'gay pride parade'," the Vatican said in a statement issued on Wednesday.

....

"It is clear that the gay parade scheduled to take place in Jerusalem will prove offensive to the great majority of Jews, Muslims and Christians, given the sacred character of the City of Jerusalem."


WP

LOL...oh man...that megaphone isn't giving you guys much of a heads up these days, is it. Less than a day and a complete reversal...

YES!! Let's remember this decision.

[msmcghee]

26. How far can you twist this?

The article specifically says that the GLBT group itself (not GOI) canceled the event - because of threats by Hamas to kick in the suicide bombers. They did it out of concern for their fellow Israeli citizens. They placed their fellow citizens safety above their own needs. I think that's pretty cool.

Casting this as an example of Israeli intolerance to support your ideological agenda in this forum is a vile, dishonest thing to do.

[MrPrax]

27. Hahaha!!!

Nice try...you spin so terribly.

Yesterday you had NO problem citing this as act of Israeli TOLERANCE...now you are reduced to 'well since a bunch of religious fanatics threatened to kill all the sodomites from defiling their religious city, they decided it would be safer if they didn't march peacefully...

They did it out of concern for their fellow Israeli citizens.

:rofl: Too much

[msmcghee]

28. This GLBT stuff seems to really get your juices flowing . .

. . for some reason. Actually, I don't recall making any comments about this yesterday - or any time. I think you should ask the powers that be if you could change your ID to Mr. Twister.

;-)

[MrPrax]

29. Your terrible...

Here's a freebie spin for yeah...

Oh MrPrax, you know damn well that there are a whole host of issues involved here and while yes, I agree that some want to place Israel to a higher standard that anyone else in the world, on the issue of GBLT. Israel is no more guilty of 'homophobic' extremism than anyone else and to suggest otherwise is really 'anti-semitic'.

In fact MrPrax, you acknowledge this by posting a story about the Vatican urging Israel to ban the parade. That indicates that you know damn well that religious hostility to the GBLT movement is very widespread. Are you implying MrPrax, that the actions of a small obscure ultra-orthodox community within the context of the city of Jerusalem constitutes a greater threat to the GBLT community than say a worldwide movement of a billion Catholics. Are we suppose to condemn say all American-Irish for the disgusting actions of the few that organize annual St. Paddy Day parades. Of course, not, MrPrax.

Now in this situation, since you have most eloquently have written about it several times, there has been a collapse in the internal politics of Israel and since the weak government there has been stuck pandering to the ultra-orthodox and the Israel Party fascists, then it would seem inevitable that the government would have to pander for a lot of other reasons, the least of which being this parade.

There are other things going on and many critics of Israel would love to make more of this than they really should be.

The actions of a few extremists, MrPrax, shouldn't colour of perception of a whole people, whether they be gay, lesbian, jewish, arab, democrat or even republican

See...it's that easy ;-)

[msmcghee]

30. I think you meant "You're terrible" . .

Are you saying I wrote that? It doesn't sound like my writing although I generally agree with some of the sentiments expressed. And I don't spell color - colour. Why didn't you provide the link?

If I did write it I stand corrected - although I certainly did not write it yesterday, as you claim. And, whether I wrote it or not, it has nothing to do with your fatuous denial that the GLBT group itself canceled the parade out of concern for the heightened security situation.

[MrPrax]

31. U R a 'good speller'

Hey it's an improvement.

When I used Firefox 1.5, Venezuela used to look like this: "Venezsula"
Now with Firefox 2.0 and that the handiest spell-checker ever! It looks like this: 'Venezuela'

But I while probably have to wait until Firefox 3.0 to get applets that correct: 'shifting tenses, run-on sentences, clunky syntax, mangled metaphors, overuse/misused/absence of punctuation, etc etc ;-)

And oh!

Since colour is perfectly acceptable to Her Majesty, then it should be good enough for you. :evilgrin:

[Tom Joad]

3. There is no Pride in Occupation....

So a parade will go on despite the continued killings in Gaza, the man-made humanitarian disaster is unfolding in both Gaza and the West Bank. But we should be applauding Israel? I read Nixon signed environmental legislation while bombing Vietnam back to the stone age. I remember him for the genocide in Vietnam.

Anyway....

http://www.thegully.com/essays/israel/020220_gays_meet_...

This is dated, and i am not sure the scheduled meeting ever took place, but i think the thoughts here are as relevant as ever...maybe more so...

Gay Israel: No Pride In Occupation

by Hagai El-Ad

Hagai El-Ad, another queer Israeli activist, is more ambivalent.

JERUSALEM, FEB. 21, 2002. It appears that a meeting of gays and lesbians with Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, will finally take place. Is this an achievement for our community, or an example of a lack of feeling, callousness and loss of direction? Is it a victory for the community or a self-inflicted defeat? What do we, Israeli gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people, have to say in such a meeting? What do we gain from sitting down with the head of the Executive Branch? What do we lose? And how do we continue to fight for our human rights the morning after?

It would be worth having such a meeting if the community's representatives tell Arik (Sharon) about Dirty Laundry, a new lgbt group fighting for equality for Israel's Palestinian citizens and against Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

....

The struggle for our rights is worthless if it's indifferent to what's happening to people a kilometer from here.

We're fighting for equality, but if we do it at the price of collaborating with an oppressive and discriminatory establishment, then we're no better than the millions of other Israelis who've already chosen to become hardened and indifferent to the suffering of the other, of the enemy, even if the other is an Israeli citizen, even if she is a pregnant woman, even if it's a child on her way to school. It's sufficient for the other to be an Arab to justify, in the eyes of the Jewish majority, almost any humiliation and violence.

How can a human being, especially if they're gay or lesbian, remain silent in the face of such a reality? In so many places, at so many times, it's been enough for the other to be gay or lesbian, or transsexual, in order to justify humiliation and violence. Racism is racism is racism. Indifference to suffering and humiliation of another person because he's "different" is a racist act. And now gays and lesbians will express through this meeting our indifference to this racism, our readiness to remain silent and collaborate with the Prime Minister of a country that oppresses, discriminates, and humiliates.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. So all Israeli life should stop?

No one is saying that the gays are marching for their pride in the occupation. They are marching in their pride of being able to be themselves.

[Tom Joad]

5. Perhaps you should discuss that with Hagai El-Ad

[Behind the Aegis]

6. I shall...when he becomes a member of DU.

Until then, he can protest anything he likes and sit home during the pride parade, but taking pride in one's sexual orientation is not a thing to be ashamed of, nor conflated with the occupation.

[PrgressiveJ]

17. `Israel is among the leaders in equality for sexual minorities. `

From the same website Quoted above ,
Queer in the Land of Sodom
Israel is among the leaders in equality for sexual minorities

FEBRUARY 21, 2002. Although the idea of a vibrant queer community in Israel, reputed birthplace of the biblical condemnation of same-sex relations, may seem far-fetched, Israel today is one of the world's most progressive countries in terms of equality for sexual minorities. Politically, legally, and culturally, the community has moved from life at the margins of Israeli society to visibility and growing acceptance.

In the Beginning
There is no magic mythical beginning to Israel's lgbt community, like the 1969 Stonewall riots that spurred American queers into action. Instead, changes in the values and politics of Israeli society over the past twenty years or so created the space in which a gay and lesbian community could coalesce.

The first gay organization was established in 1975, thanks largely to the work of immigrants from the United States and other English-speaking countries influenced by the development of gay liberation and the counterculture of the 1960's.

The very name of this first organization, the Society for the Protection of Personal Rights (then, as today, known as the Agudah, in Hebrew), reflected the difficulty of organizing sexual minorities at a time when the existence of a sodomy law was thought by many to make homosexuality itself illegal. In its early years, the Agudah functioned more as a support and social group rather than as a political organization.

http://www.thegully.com/essays/gaymundo/020220_gay_israel_history.html

[David__77]

7. Though I'm anti-Zionist, I do not agree.

The same logic would certainly extend to gays and lesbians in all imperialist countries like the US especially. If you agree, then you would be consistent. There are many fights to wage, but this is a dogmatic perspective.

[cali]

8. What are you saying?

Or attempting to say? That Israel's policies regarding gays and lesbians are inconsequential because of the Occupation? That their being treated justly is simply not important? This is a good decision. That you're unable to see that is just sad.

[pelsar]

9. I'm actually glad your here...

it reminds me why us jews/zionists need israel......when no matter what we do is somehow always construted to some greater evil it serves as a reminder of what is going on beneath the surface with so many of the israels critics. (some who are even willing to march with religious facists like hama/hizballa and see no problem with that, as long as its anti israel)

when a discussion that goes a bit deeper than a mere two or three posts is the max it shows just how limited the ability to put forth a realistic argument, based on real facts, real problems and real soulutions.

but thats what i like best....its does express the simplistic views of so many of israelis critics...so simplistic that they are not just irrelevant, but a reminder of whats in store for us if we lose just one war.

[breakaleg]

10. off topic...

but related to your post.

Why do you assume that a person making only 2 or 3 posts shows anything about their argument? Perhaps it has more to do with you and their unwillingness to bang their head against the wall in futile arguments with you.

And why is it when someone disagrees with you, instead of sticking to the issue at hand, you resort to personal attacks?

I'm trying to put forth an alternate explanation for why people "disappear" in the middle of arguments with you. It's likely personal, not any reflection on their knowledge or any weakness in their argument.

[msmcghee]

11. That's just silly.

To suggest that there's something about pelsar's personality or posts that is "off putting" to the delicate sensibilities of the anti-Israeli crowd here is quite a laugh.

The fact is, as his challenges, and those from several others here including me, have shown repeatedly - your arguments are nothing but dressed-up excuses for hatred of anything that has to do with Israel.

There is almost no logic or reason in your heated responses - just base emotion hanging onto quotes gleaned from anti-semitic websites. To suggest that you don't answer his well-reasoned questions because they somehow - offend your sensibilities - is really a funny one. Thanks for making my day.

[breakaleg]

13. ...

I didn't say off-putting. In fact, I didn't say anything specific.

The fact that you and others accuse me of hatred, specifically of hating Israel, is not only laughable, but so far off base that it's one of the reasons I choose not to engage with you. And again, it's a personal attack, which is often resorted to when you can't win the argument on it's face.

Anti-semitic websites? I guess the whole world is out to get Israel - like major new sources from the UK, US and others.

Again, you just proved my point.

[msmcghee]

14. Yes, well you never say anything very specific.

. . even when asked specific questions by pelsar and others. Instead, you "suggest" - which is why I used that term in post.

And that was my point . . that you never give specific answers to specific questions . . which you just made for me.

[msmcghee]

15. I am amused by your indignation.

You say, "The fact that you and others accuse me of hatred, specifically of hating Israel, is not only laughable, but so far off base that it's one of the reasons I choose not to engage with you. And again, it's a personal attack, which is often resorted to when you can't win the argument on it's face."

Several here have attempted to argue with you - but as you say you never say much of anything specific - like actual statements based on a line of reasoning that you'd have to defend with facts. Instead, you suggest. And strangely, your suggestions all amount to Israel and the IDF being the cruel and imperialist oppressor of the poor Palestinians - or the poor Lebanese - basically, whoever is attacking Israel to cause the confrontation.

Like many others in this forum your posts basically leave the impression that Israel should leave the ME to the Arabs and go live someplace else. Admittedly, most of you never really get specific about that because that would reveal too much - and would subject your beliefs to too much scrutiny.

Since you don't ever get too specific - we are left with just that suggestion left by your collective posts. Whenever you are challenged on the specifics you seem to disappear.

Where were you when I made this post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=153034&mesg_id=153102

If you really want to get specific - go back there and pick up the challenge. Tell us what you think Israel should do about the Qassams coming into Israel every week - and why. Say something specific that you are prepared to defend.

[pelsar]

19. off topic continued....

Why do you assume that a person making only 2 or 3 posts shows anything about their argument? Perhaps it has more to do with you and their unwillingness to bang their head against the wall in futile arguments with you.

because the "disappearance" is always as the same point...going on for as long as i've been here....never answered. If you would like i can give a short list and perhaps you would like to pick up at their argument (some include yours as well)?

[rockymountaindem]

12. You're the best, Pelsar

:toast:

[PrgressiveJ]

18. Well said nt

[PrgressiveJ]

16. Yes it is dated,

And I think the wave after wave of suicide bombers (murderers) is the reason we never heard anything more of it since 2001.

[PrgressiveJ]

20. ``Throw THE Jewish State down the well `` ? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk3RHkY6Hms&mode=related&search=

[Amused Musings]

24. It boils down to the classic question

Who would you rather hang out with?
The guys who let you be who you are no matter what that might be, or the ones who would kill you for it and claim religious mandate. I personally, would rather choose the former.