Israel general quits over Lebanon (BBC)

[Eugene]

Last Updated: Sunday, 12 November 2006, 12:14 GMT

Israel general quits over Lebanon

An Israeli general who commanded forces in the war against Lebanese Hezbollah
guerrillas has offered to resign.

Brig Gen Gal Hirsch was in charge of the unit whose soldiers were ambushed
by Hezbollah men on 12 July, the incident that ignited the conflict.

Three soldiers were killed in the border attack, and another two were captured.
They remain in captivity.

Gen Hirsch is the second high-profile military figure to lose his job over the
34-day Lebanon war.

-snip-

Criticism

Last week, Doron Almog, a retired general who headed an army investigation into
the 12 July incident, informed Gen Hirsch that he would recommend his dismissal.

-snip-

Full article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6141114.stm

[peacetalksforall]

1. When I read your subject title I thought a General had quit in protest

against the massacres, weapon choices, and infra-structure destruction that Israel thundered down on them - all those innocent people and children.

Have a home? Let's make that zero. Need your bridge? Let's make that zero. Have a body? Let's make that zero or a near zero or a phosphorized zero.

[IntiRaymi]

2. The last sentence is a telling one:

"The war killed more than 1,200 Lebanese, mostly civilians, and 157 Israelis, mostly soldiers."

This has to be emphasized over and over again. This type of conduct by israel's military machine is unacceptable, from a simple humanistic perspective.

[pelsar]

3. so is..

supporting hizballas campaign to kill only jewish israeli citizens throughout israel, in hospitals, in kindergartens, in old folks home, anywhere they can find them they tried to kill them.....that type of racist support is unacceptable from a simple humanistic perpsepctive....

[oblivious]

4. Of the 41 civilian Israelis dead, I understood 23 were Jewish and 18 Arab Muslims and Christians.

If those numbers are accurate it sounds like random targeting rather than what you say.

[msmcghee]

5. pelsar can provide his own answer . .

. . but anyone who reads the news can see that the attacks are random - random with the underlying intent to kill Jews. Fortunately for Hamas, Israel has a pretty high Jew count. That way they can use unguided missiles with a pretty good chance that some Jews are going to die - if anyone dies. And the stats you provided bear that out.

That also means that Hamas and IJ suicide bombers don't have to do an ID check on the other riders before deciding which bus to take to Haifa. Almost any bus will have plenty of Jews. And if it doesn't . . well I'm sure the other Jews will get the point.

Of course, what you are suggesting is that Hamas fires the missiles with the simple intent to kill anyone who lives in Israel - and I guess you think that's not quite as bad for some reason.

Maybe you are saying that Hamas and IJ are really a fine bunch of equal opportunity murderers who really have nothing against Jews at all - despite their racist rants and teaching the glories of killing Jews to their five-year-olds in school. Anyone can see that the poor terrorists are just doing the best job they can with primitive missiles that lack the necessary JHD's (Jew Homing Devices).

Thanks for setting us straight on that one.

[oblivious]

6. LOL

"what you are suggesting is..."

"and I guess you think ..."

"Maybe you are saying..."

I really don't understand why anyone bothers talking with you.

[msmcghee]

7. It's the beatdowns . . nt

[breakaleg]

8. well said!

[msmcghee]

9. Notice the key words . . .

"and I guess you think"

"Maybe you are saying"

"I guess" and "maybe" indicate conjecture on my part. Such is a time-honored method of debate. Although, it is known to get opponents understandably pissed-off when their hidden meanings and the ultimate consequences of their assertions are laid bare.

But it also allows the opponent a target. They can come back and show my conjectures to be wrong or deceptive. How come no-one ever seems to do that around here? I give you plenty of targets.

In this instance you made the "oblivious" assertion that since the missiles just didn't kill Jews - then effectively, Hamas was not targetting Jews with their unguided missiles. Such an idiotic premise deserves the strongest possible ridicule IMO.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msmcghee]

11. I'm not interested in how excellent anybody here is.

I'm interested in words being used to hurt others - words that those using them can't back up. Keep using them and I'll keep pointing that out. You make it too easy.

[IntiRaymi]

13. Never mind that Jewish people are the majority in Israel,

So the odds were heavily stacked against jewish people in that one.

[pelsar]

15. except that nassralla apologised....

when two arab children were killed...and not when jewish children were killed. Guess that makes him and his supporters nothing more than mere racists.

[pelsar]

14. Nassralla apologized for israeli arab deaths...

when his missiles hit nazrath and killed two muslim arab israelis....Nassrala went on TV and apologised....guess that makes it pretty clear he was aiming for the non muslim population at best.

seems to be a pretty racist attitude...prefering to kill israelis who ARENT muslim.....(when the druz were hit, he said nothing....)

so for those who actually agree with hizballas missle attacks...guess that makes them racists too. (anybody here?....)

[IntiRaymi]

12. Concering the lack of concern for Lebanese:

"Is Zionism racism? I would say yes. It's a policy that to me looks like it has many parallels with racism. The effect is the same. Whether you call it that or not is in a sense irrelevant."
Desmund Tutu, South African Archbishop, Nobel prize winner, and activist against apartheid, Hoffman, Tzippi/Fisher, Alan, 1988

[pelsar]

16. this is good....clarifying your opinion of us...

i find it rather refreshing...though true its took sometime to come out....

zionism is racism

hizballa targeting just the non muslims, and your backing it.....sounds like racism to me.
_____

but since were on the subject of racism, would you say that hamas, hizballa, islamic jihad, The Iranian govt, the british govt (racial profiling...) are all racist societies ....and of course the US with their history of "manifest destiny"...of which the indians are still paying for it.....

[IntiRaymi]

17. Desmond Tutu's opinion, actually.

I just think that the quote is an interesting one, since it was made long before the summer of 2006.

[pelsar]

18. so ...do you agree?

honesty is a good trait:


so far you've mentioned that you agree with hizballas random missles on all israeli cities....how about "zionism = racism"....and if so, how about other nationalistic policies...or is just zionism thats racists and others arent (it wont be a problem to find others with clear "racist policies if your interested)

[IntiRaymi]

19. Why do you insist on chasing ghosts?

Why are you so paranoid?

[pelsar]

20. i'm not at all paranoid..

i just like honesty.....and i always find it strange for those who claim to believe in "x"...and have a hard time defending their stance. If its some one religious, thats a different story as they simply believe in their god and her ways. If its not based on religion but on some "left" "humanitarian" civil rights values, all of which are western values i would expect that person to be able to either defend their stance using western tools of logic and reason...

or to just ignore my questions...which is usually the case here...i'm guessing because their "stance" is probably contradictory at best, more likely its no more than a belief, as in religion that has no basis in equality or reason. But i can only guess since no one here even dares to answer my questions.

[IntiRaymi]

21. No sense in answering loaded questions.

That is all.
I recommend you change your premises concerning the nature of discussion here. If all you have is a hammer, pretty soon everything starts to look like a nail.

[pelsar]

22. the questions....

are not loaded at all....they are part of the everyday discussions within israel.....the massive failure to even attempt to discuss them here is most telling

your own agreement with Hizballas attacking israeli hospitals and schools and then refusal to elaborate (while claiming to be a humanitarian) also says a lot about your position.

[IntiRaymi]

23. Very loaded.

For instance, the post I am 'responding' to.

[msmcghee]

24. Loaded questions, empty answers. Says a lot. n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pelsar]

26. perhaps you have "full knowledge"

but ones inability to explain what it is and actually write out the apparent contradictions between "being a humanitarium" and agreeing to the philosophy of hizballa to kill israeli children where ever they sleep is quite interesting.....

cant explain it?.....neither can I, but then i dont believe in such a philosophy