Gas Chambers In Disguise

[Herschel]

http://bigjweb.com/artman/publish/article_565.shtml

"The year 1948 should have opened up a new era for Jews. Only 3 years after the closest attempt at Jewish annihilation, where 2 out of every 3 Jewish babies, teenagers, adults and elderly were given a bullet in the head, purposeful starvation, disease, burial alive/dead in a pit with fellow Jewish townspeople, or gas chambers, one would think the world would put the idea of Jewish destruction to rest, at least for a while.

No way! Hence, another opportunity arose. Put the Jews into a barren little place that is "unreal" or "is real" (sic), which no one really wants.......except them. Every one of the countries surrounding this barren wasteland hates Jews with a passion, because it is part of their bible. So, either the cruel desert will kill them or the Arabs will. Only this time, the Europeans won't have to lend a "bloody" hand.

Europe certainly knew that after a Jewish state was declared, all surrounding Arab countries would attack the army-less Jews immediately. Survival would be impossible, just through sheer numbers.

In fact, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia invaded this pathetic group of already emaciated Jews struggling for survival. Azzam Pasha, secretary general of the Arab League boldly declared, "This will be a war of extermination." Guess what Azzam? This ragtag group with their primitive weapons, claiming to have God on their side, wiped out those big, "brave" Arab warriors.

Europe, still washing the Jewish blood off its hands from WWII, and cleaning burnt flesh from underneath their fingernails, did not lend Israel a helping hand. Since giving them an easily targeted state was not working, the world had to come up with a new "final solution" for the Jewish problem.

This would begin as an idea called the Arab-Israeli dispute, which would mysteriously metastasize as a cause that every European socialist (oxymoron) and leftist elite professor (oxymoron) throughout the world could join to oppose Jews....the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

The "Palestinian cause" is Europe's way of clearing their consciences of culpability from WWII genocide. If the Europeans can show that the Jews are really bad guys anyway, and indeed, are committing their own form of genocide against the poor, defenseless Palestinians, then their own actions during WWII weren't really so objectionable. By continuing to recognize Yasser Arafat as the leader who is persecuted by those "bad" Jews, Europe today believes they are wiping away their own guilt and blood stained hands.

Most of the world, through the UN, agreed to give the Jews this tiny piece of real estate, probably realizing that it would eventually be destroyed or eaten up by bad neighbors. Thus allowing Europe to sweep its responsibility for The Holocaust quickly under the rug."

Many ways have been devised to rid this world of Jews.

[The Magistrate]

1. It Is Not Strictly True, Sir, Europe Provided No Aid In '48

Support from the French government was crucial, not only in the period of illegal immigration in last months of the Mandate, but in the shipment of weapons during the war, and in the first years of the state. Arms from Czechoslovakia were decisive in the war.

[Herschel]

2. I admire your knowledge and eye for the detail

However, the point of the article is the history of brutality the Jewish people have faced. Let there be no doubt, much support for the Palestinians and venom for Israel are rooted in anti-semitism.

[Jackie97]

13. I agree to a point with that...

A lot of so called pro-Palestinians are actually anti-semitic in disguise. I'll also agree however that the holocaust and other anti-semitism throughout the centuries is getting used to excuse any dispicable behavior that Israeli Defense Forces (which doesn't equal Jews) uses against Palestinians now such as mowing down houses for Jewish settlements, killing people for breaking a curfew, etc.

[Darranar]

18. I agree with you somewhat...

Persoanlly, I'd allow the Palestinians being subject to a small wrong then the Jews being slaughtered in a greater wrong; that does not justify wrongs that do not prevent other wrongs, however; things that happen all to often in the I/P situation.

[quilp]

20. You mean that it is not possible for anyone

to have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians, and disgust with the brutality of the Israelis without being "anti-semetic"? If so you have no clue what the word "anti-semetic" means.

[Darranar]

21. That is NOT what I mean...

I have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians. I have stated my sympathy before.

There is indeed considerable Israeli brutality. That I condemn, and criticize. Others do, as well. I consider neither myself nor those others as anti-semitic.

Yes, I have a clear concept of what that word means.

On edit: I just realized that you did not respond to my post, but to Herschel's. Sorry for the mistake, but the points I made above are still important.

[Herschel]

22. Read again

I said nothing of the sort. There is an elemnent of anti-semitism in the opposition to Israel. Not all. That is what I said.

[bemildred]

5. There is a good deal more than that here that is not true.

This is propaganda, drool if you prefer.

[The Magistrate]

6. A Fair Characterization, My Friend

My intial comment was hurried, and there is certainly more that could be said. Someone else will have to say it, though, as my time remains limited.

It is certainly something of a propagandist's master-work to attempt to turn the foundation of Israel into an attempt at genocide against Jews: perhaps it was done in an attempt to display perfect mastery in the craft of Black-White.

[bemildred]

10. We are all free to take on as much as we wish here.

Or not.
I am badly positioned to lecture you in that regard.

[mkregel]

3. Both Israel and Palastine have blood on their hands

enough said

[Herschel]

4. Your statement is out of context

The article refers to the brutal history for the Jewish people, the world's trashing of Israel in the conflict as the latest chapter.

[The Magistrate]

7. The Problem, Sir

Is that the existence of the Jewish people is now under no real threat. Propagandas which insist it is, let alone policies predicated on that basis, must surely fail of success.

[Herschel]

8. Perhaps not at the moment

Because the glorious friendship between Israel and America secures her. America provides a safe haven also. Make no mistake, many desire the worst for Jewish people.

[The Magistrate]

9. Without The Means, Sir

Desire is meaningless. To overstate the danger is to lose support: witness the current contrempts over the "nuclear threat" posed by Hussein.

Certainly some criticism of Israel is rooted in Anti-Semitism, but by no means all of it is. Nor does the existance of Anti-Semitism mean Israel is or ought to be immune from criticism. Turn the thing around, Sir, for a thought experiment. Some criticism of Islam is rooted in religious bigotry, and racial bigotry: does that mean all such criticism is the product of such bigotry? Does the existence of such bigotry, and the wide extent of it, mean that Islam and Arabs are immune from criticism?

[Herschel]

11. I disagree with something

Desire is meaningful. If your neighbor desires to shoot you dead, yet you are secured by costly and elaborate security measures, does that mean nothing? Are you not impacted? Much of the international opposition to Israel is rooted in anti-semitism. Critcizing Israel is not purely anti-semitic, nor is Israel immune from it based on her being a Jewish state. We agree there is an anti-semitic element in the opposition. Much the same for Islam. Critcism of it may be rooted in bigotry, yet concern for it's radical element is justified. The difference is Islam is criticized for it's radical element, while often the venom toward Jewish people is for all Jewish people.

[The Magistrate]

12. To Me, Sir

Means matter more than desire. If someone wishes to kill me, but manifestly lacks the capability, it worries me little. In the case of Israel, and the Jewish people, the capability for destruction is absent: no more can be done than is being done now, and this falls far short of a meaningful threat to corporate existence.

It is necessary to realize that acknowledging some criticism of Israel is based on Anti-Semitism is the same as stating some of it is not. There are many acts of the Israeli government that deserve criticism. Indeed, if there were fewer of these, not only would Israel enjoy wider support, but it would be far more clear when criticism of it was in fact rooted in bigotry.

Just as concern for the radical elements of Islam is justified, so is concern for some of the radical elements in the polity of Israel justified. Again, this can be overblown, because the worst of these elements lack reasonable prospect of power to put their aims into practice, but it is also true some stand uncomfortably near real power. It would be foolish to deny, for instance, that Moledet, for example, would carry out unequivocally criminal acts against the people of Arab Palestine if it were dominant in government, as opposed to a makeweight. It is also true that much of the criticism of Islam and Arabs is not too specific, and does generalize to the tarring of the entire faith and people. This is sometimes a result, perhaps, of poorly framed expression, or of ignorance, by the speaker, but it is certainly in many cases due to a bigoted animadversion against them. It is, of course, easier to see these things when they are directed against one's own cause than against another one opposes.

[Gimel]

14. Indeed, that is

the state of affairs. Israel has become more accepting of criticism, and often responds with reasoning of its own, whether that is accepted by all or not, is another question. Israel today wants to become recognized economic and political partner in the EU and in the world community. There is a great potential in the people of Israel. There is potential in the people of Palestine also. Palestine cannot realize it's potential by attacking Israel. Both peoples are put into danger and shame.

[The Magistrate]

15. Too True, Ma'am

Both these peoples would do far better for themselves by biting the bullet and doing together what is necessary to live in peace.

The current circumstance, and much of the history behind, is a squalid waste of potentials and of lives.

[Herschel]

16. Yes of course

I am less concerned with a desire to kill me if the killer has no means. This does not render the desire meaningless or harmless. The people of Israel, Jews in particular, are indeed killed. Yes, the means are lacking for a widespread massacre. Still, the desire, at times with capability exists. I say the radical element of Islam is more prevelant then that amongst the Jewish people. That is my opinion.

[Darranar]

17. Basically you're correct, my friend...

I agree that the radical elements in Islam have more power, but not that they are any more evil or common.

The appeal gained by the radicals in Islam is based on the idea that all of the oppresive governments in the Arab world are only there because of Western culture, that all of their many problems are caused by Western culture. The appeal of the radicals in Judaism is much the same: the Palestinians are responsible for everything wrong in Israel,they started all the violence, etc, etc.

Both views are, of course, wrong, and I think that the vast majority of both Muslims and Jews realize that. The difference is that when you are rich and nothing bad is happening to you, you can dismiss those radicals easily if you want to, because even if the claims were true, the supposed evil villians can't harm you. When you are poor and stuck in a mess, however, and you have no freedoms or rights, you lack that "buffer zone" and you begin to wonder if the radicals are really correct. Even if you really don't believe, you reach the point that you are so scared that they are right to some degree that you let them do what they want. It happened in the US with September 11th and more recently the war in Iraq, and it happens in Israel all the time.

There is also the appeal of religion in this; since, in both religions, the relgious extremists are generally the most radical, religion has an important place. When there is great trouble for you, and you can't turn to anything material, you end up trning to something spiritual, or some sort of divine being. Without the education to understand the complex reasons for everything, such a belief can inspire fundamentalism and radicalism, or tolerance of both in your own religion or people.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. WOW talk about paranoid conspiracy theories

With so many real enemies, why waste energy on this kind of stuff?