Hizbullah fighters impose control on Beirut

[msmcghee]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3541262,00.html


Gunmen loyal to Nasrallah take control of Muslim part of Lebanese capital, seize outlets owned by governing coalition leader Hariri; Lebanese troops begin taking up positions in some Sunni neighborhoods. Saudi Arabia, calls for emergency meeting of Arab foreign ministers over crisis

News agencies
Latest Update: 05.09.08, 13:52 / Israel News

Lebanon's Iranian-backed Hizbullah took control of the Muslim part of Beirut on Friday, tightening its grip on the city in a major blow to the US-backed government.


Hizbullah's hostile takeover

Lebanese troops began taking up positions in some Sunni neighborhoods abandoned by the pro-government groups, but remained outside of the clashes, while elsewhere well-equipped Hizbullah fighters marched through Sunni neighborhoods.


Security sources said at least 11 people had been killed and 30 wounded in three days of battles between pro-government gunmen and fighters loyal to Hizbullah, a Shiite political movement with a powerful guerrilla army.


The fighting, the worst internal strife since the 1975-90 civil war, was triggered this week after the government took decisions targeting Hizbullah's military communications network. The group said the government had declared war.

<snip>

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. Civilization and its discontents n/t

[msmcghee]

2. Here's a link that seems to be providing . .

. . periodic updates - every few minutes from Beirut.

http://www.nowlebanon.com/Default.aspx

[msmcghee]

3. Israel's President Shimon Perez on Friday . .

Israel accuses Iran of igniting violence in Lebanon
May 9, 2008
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. . claimed the current violence in Lebanon was fomented by Iran to further what he said was Tehran's goal to control the Middle East.


"It is a new chapter of the battle led by Iran to control all of the Middle East," Perez said, adding that Hezbollah "threatens the peace and unity of Lebanon."

He stressed Israel was in no way involved in the sectarian conflict.

Earlier today, Perez attempted to appease Israeli fears over the expansion of Hezbollah’s control over Beirut.

“We are not surprised, because we know that Hezbollah will divide the country and lead it toward civil war,” Perez said.

“This has nothing to do with Israel. It is an internal Lebanese matter. It is a disaster for them and for all of us,” he added.

Perez expressed hope that the Lebanese will save themselves from civil war before it’s too late.

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=41920

-NOW Staff

[Phx_Dem]

4. Blogger covering events

I can't write much, but suffice it to say that some calm has come to certain areas of Beirut where Hizballah-led forces have ousted local resident-gunmen fighting the group's advance. Future TV and Newspaper, the mouthpiece of the Future Movement and of the Hariri family that heads it, has seen its offices in Beirut burnt; and other anti-Syrian media outlets have been targeted.

Rumor in Lebanon has it that the head of the military, General Michel Suleiman, who's election Hizballah and others have blocked over the past six months, is being urged to assume power. Exact details of how he would do so remain sketchy, with some believing that Hizballah would only agree to it if its accompanied by the current government's resignation - something that would have happened if Suleiman were elected along the constitutional lines Hizballah has been blocking.

As of now, there is no indication of what is to come. What is clear is that Hizballah has effectuated a Gaza-like takeover of Beirut and is now preparing to leverage this new status quo in return for the same goals it could not achieve through legal and constitutional means.

With the International Tribunal coming into effect later this summer, a violent takeover of Lebanon seems to have been the route the group has chosen for itself to protect it, and its assassin-allies from justice. And rest assured, the shift in balances of power due to this coup will provide Hizballah's primary backers with the needed fodder and leverage in their own negotiations with Israel and the West.

http://blacksmithsoflebanon.blogspot.com/

[The Magistrate]

5. This Cannot End Well, Ma'am

[subsuelo]

6. End well for whom?

[LeftishBrit]

9. For anyone who wants peace in Lebanon...

Yet more violence and conflict; and they've already had plenty there.

[azurnoir]

7. This is a stunning example

of actions creating an outcome that is counter to the intent.

[Shaktimaan]

11. How so exactly?

Not that I disagree necessarily. It's just that I can see a few different things that you could be referring to regarding this.

[azurnoir]

12. Unintended outcomes

After the "Cedar Revolution" in 2005 Hezbollah was being marginalized, slowly but surely. Yes, they had some seats in the parliament but with Syria gone their power had been weakened. The Lebanese people were looking forward to a new future and IMHO not one ruled by Hezbollah, but that changed when Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israeli reservists and Israel's response was to make war on all of Lebanon, adding greatly to that was the US supposedly Lebanon's "friend" giving it approval to Israels bombing although it was well known that the bombing was taking a heavy civilian toll. This happened at a time when the Lebanese military was quite weak and Hezbollah was seen as the only real defense against the Israeli onslaught. In the end the 2006 conflict only served to strengthen Hezbollah and make the Lebanese government look to be collaborators with those that would allow the destruction of the country, the end result was the destabilization of the country and what looks to be the beginnings of yet another civil war.

If at least part of Israel's intent was to destroy Hezbollah they failed and in the long actually strengthened Hezbollah.

[pelsar]

13. what?......again?

Hezbollah was being marginalized

dont know much about s.lebanon then did you...where Hizballa not only ruled but had spread their own self rule to parts of N/E.lebanon as well..not to mention parts of Beruit, both in influence and in infrastructure (their own communication network)...and all that while "syria was being weakened".....

Hizballa as you mentioned even entered parliament via voting, as their position only grew stronger. I doubt you can show before the Lebanon II where exactly there was some kind of "loss of influence or territory on the part of HIzballa in the last 10 years.......because it didnt happen.

I realize that its important to blame israel for Hizballas attack on lebanon, or in the very least that its now "stronger".....the only problem with that viewpoint is the lacking of evidence......

[azurnoir]

14. So you claiming that the Lebanese

want to be ruled by Islamists is that it? The members of Hezbollah that were in the Lebanese government by vote were from the border area in Southern Lebanon,

Hezbollah did not "rule" Lebanon in 2006 and had been greatly weakened by by Syria's ouster, unless you claim that somehow that ouster made Hezbollah stronger. If so please explain

Note the Wiki page on Lebanon used to contain a break down of how many Parliamentary seats were held by what party, that information has been edited out of Lebanon's page, but if memory serves me Hezbollah held around 20 seats out of more then 100, hardly the "ruling" party

[pelsar]

15. hizballa Marginalized..is your claim...

back it up....where did they exactly lose influence and power pre lebanon II? What events led you to believe this?..(they are events, news etc that you can link to...correct?)

(they're main backer is Iran, not syrian btw)

[azurnoir]

16. And you claim the opposite

And claim that it Iran and NOT Syria who backs Hezbollah, in fact it is both, however I had thought it was a well known enough fact, that it did not have to be mentioned.


http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSN0949082620080509

This a recent article, so now will the claim be that Syria only backed Hezbollah after they left Lebanon, or maybe after 2006?

[pelsar]

17. your avoiding backing up your claim....

i never claimed its iran and not syria....just that iran is the more influential (thats why i used the words "main backer)..but all of this started because you basically claimed that because of israel, hizballas influence has grown when in fact according to you it was getting less...

so?...where does that info/belief come from?...links?...radio talk shows, blogs......

(i admit, i dont think you have any and just figured it was another angle to blame israel for something it didnt do, but maybe i'm wrong?)

[azurnoir]

18. I am not avoiding it

but it is obvious, if a major backer of anything is removed then what was being backed is weakened. Also given that Lebanon is one of the most westernized countries in the ME and not a wholly Muslim country either, they are not an "Islamic" republicso then why would they want Islamist rule. Also not to be forgotten is the assassination of Rafik Hariri which prompted the "Cedar Revolution" Syria is blamed for this action and Hezbollah was guilty by association. Hezbollah at least its military wing was going to go the way of the dinosaur simply because there was no need anymore, now the social services wing might well have survived but over time would have grown more "mainstream".

This is why I have questioned Israels bombing the whole country, if Israel had contained its actions to South Lebanon the Lebanese would most likely have been as POed with Hezbollah as they were with Israel, but as things went Hezbollah wound up looking like defenders of the country and the government looked like collaborators. It came down to what does Israel want on its Northern border in the future, potential friend or foe?

[pelsar]

19. who says they want islamic rule?

does gaza want it...does iran want it?....Just because many dont like hizballa doesnt mean their influence has been "stunted." As usual you dont really have any news sources or any information from Lebanon itself..just some very simplistic analysis of how a westerner sees the situation......from a very limited amount of events.


but this part shows the innocence of the western viewer:
Hezbollah at least its military wing was going to go the way of the dinosaur simply because there was no need anymore, now the social services wing might well have survived but over time would have grown more "mainstream".

only the most naive or innocent believe there is a separation between the hizballas social and military wings..both have the same exact purpose and both feed off one another: middle east politics 101

[azurnoir]

20. But there is a separation

at least the people that live there see them as separate, and I am pretty sure about this. I have talked to people that live and/or have lived there, starting with one of my daughters long time fiance'(sp)/boyfriend who is from southern Lebanon and was raised there in the '80's.
BTW you once said that what negative feelings about Israels government were "knee jerk", they are not it took along time, in fact 6 years ago when she started dating this young man she kept it hidden because she afraid to tell me, for fear I would disapprove, I did initially but not as badly as she feared and yes to a degree it was this young mans stories about growing up under occupation that had influence on my thinking. His family removed him from the area in part to keep him from becoming a "militant" and I have met others who have done the same.

[pelsar]

21. the lessons of hamas as shas, hagana, etc

and hizballa; its classic: they feed the poor, set up kindergartens for the youngest, and help in a zillion other ways. the moms and dads may not like it, but how can they refuse their children a warm place for the day, where they get fed, a job for "dad"

they cant....and then the kids come home filled with a new education and questioning the secular ways of the family....and it works. If the kids are kept in the kindergarten (free) and then enter elementary school with their friends (also free, with free lunch etc), they slowly get their mind molded....next short step is joining the "youth groups" which are infact para miltary groups..and then the "army"

the only way to stop it, is to have the govt step in and offer the same if not more. Israel did it, when shas was gaining power...lebanon, nor the PA have the resources or the political power to do such as this point...and thats a shame.

___

and your girls boyfriends parents.....smart ones because there is no choice but to move out. There are plenty of stories of Palestinians not wanting their kids to grow up to become militants...but failing, do to peer pressure and the economics

[notfullofit]

22. I believe we

westerners call this kind of indoctrination 'brainwashing'.
Lives wasted.
Too bad it works for so many of them, what a choice the parents have to make.

[Shaktimaan]

8. It's OK, we can all relax...

the UN has called for calm and restraint.

Whew! That was a close one.

[Vegasaurus]

10. We know how effective the UN is! nt