ANALYSIS / Hebron settler riots were out and out pogroms

[Violet_Crumble]

An innocent Palestinian family, numbering close to 20 people. All of
them women and children, save for three men. Surrounding them are a few dozen masked Jews seeking to lynch them. A pogrom. This isn't a play on words or a double meaning. It is a pogrom in the worst sense of the word. First the masked men set fire to their laundry in the front yard and then they tried to set fire to one of the rooms in the house. The women cry for help, "Allahu Akhbar." Yet the neighbors are too scared to approach the house, frightened of the security guards from Kiryat Arba who have sealed off the home and who are cursing the journalists who wish to document the events unfolding there.

The cries rain down, much like the hail of stones the masked men hurled at the Abu Sa'afan family in the house. A few seconds tick by before a group of journalists, long accustomed to witnessing these difficult moments, decide not to stand on the sidelines. They break into the home and save the lives of the people inside. The brain requires a minute or two to digest what is taking place. Women and children crying bitterly, their faces giving off an expression of horror, sensing their imminent deaths, begging the journalists to save their lives. Stones land on the roof of the home, the windows and the doors. Flames engulf the southern entrance to the home. The front yard is littered with stones thrown by the masked men. The windows are shattered and the children are frightened. All around, as if they were watching a rock concert, are hundreds of Jewish witnesses, observing the events with great interest, even offering suggestions to the Jewish wayward youth as to the most effective way to harm the family. And the police are not to be seen. Nor is the army.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1043795.html

[elleng]

1. Thank you for posting this.

.

[azurnoir]

2. Great article

the talkbacks were "interesting" too

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Yuck. There was some real ugly hateful stuff amongst those talkbacks...

Which is why I don't usually read any of them when I read an article at Ha'aretz. I guess the anonymity is what brings the weirdos out of the woodwork as I don't know how anyone in their right mind could justify what was done to that family or claim that it was nothing...

[azurnoir]

12. That's why the ditdits around interesting

I think though that the talksbacks are kind of "spammed" by rightwingers

[Crunchy Frog]

6. Yes, the talkbacks are eye opening.

I wonder how representative they are of Israeli opinion at large.

Edit: reading some of them just now, to be fair, most of them seem to be condemning this behavior pretty soundly.

[IndianaGreen]

16. Many of those hateful talbacks are by Americans

and I suspect that they may not even be Jewish at all.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. Yeah, that's what I suspect as well...

The same thing happens over at The Guardian's Comment is Free...

[bahrbearian]

4. How dare you post this here on the DU

:sarcasm:

[delad]

5. and where the bloody hell was

the army, or the police? Look at how peaceful protesters at nilin are battered and shot at and then look at how the authorities spectacularly fail to protect Palestinians. Aparthied it most certainly is.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

8. Where are the PALESTINIAN POLICE? Did Abu Mazen agree that Palestinian police are not

allowed to protect Palestinians from these marauders?

[delad]

21. good question

if you find the answer would you mind posting it please?

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Can you imagine what would have happened if Palestinian police had gotten involved?

There's no other word for these extremists actions but terrorism, but if the Palestinian police had gotten involved and ended up shooting one of the terrorists, well then it would have turned into the police being labelled as terrorists and the attacks from the settlers ignored. So i'm glad in that respect that they weren't there...

Probably the biggest fuck-you to this bunch of Israeli terrorists would be for the IDF and the Palestinian police to work together to put a stop to them. The sight of Palestinians and Israelis working together for a common goal would induce heart attacks in most of those hatefilled idiots and then no-one would need to be shot or dragged kicking and screaming away....

[aranthus]

36. Agreed.

The only thing is that the few who didn't get heart attacks would just fight harder. Did you notice what Olmert said about the situation? Is it too little, too late? Just words? Or do you think that the Israelis will make a serious effort to protect the Palestinians from what even they admit is a pogrom?

[Violet_Crumble]

37. I'd like to think the words will be matched by equally strong actions...

But when it comes to Olmert, he's on his way out, and really it's going to depend on who the next Israeli leader is. If it's Nutty, I've got no faith that anything will be done, but if it's Livni then I'm very optimistic....

[Violet_Crumble]

25. hiccup....

sorry

[Alamuti Lotus]

26. That's a good one

Mazen's "Palestinian police" are only allowed to defend the occupyer these days.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

28. You have won the prize!

That's absolutely right.

[oberliner]

30. Is there anyone among the Palestinian leadership whom you support?

Hamas and Fatah represents the two parties whom the vast majority of Palestinians have voted for and expressed support for.

You profess not to be a fan of Hamas, and clearly from your posts, you are no fan of Fatah.

What does that say about your opinion of the Palestinian people if the two dominant parties whom they voted for are so unpalpatable to you?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

39. I think most Palestinians are like most Americans

and vote while holding their noses (though this was not the case for us in the last election). Having leadership in exile for all those years, which swooped back in in 1994, wasn't necessarily a good thing, as all the home-grown leadership (Pelsar would know what I'm talking about) was swept to the side.

Clearly, the strife between Fatah and Hamas must be breached. While there is such a rift, it is impossible to do the work of building institutions and infrastructure. I'm not a fan of Hamas. Reports we get from Gaza indicate growing corruption among Hamas, and my own relatives have had their share of negative encounters.

But I absolutely believe the PA's role in Hebron was to stand by while Israel protected the occupier. And I think that stinks.

If there are new elections, I would love to see more independents, such as Mustapha Barghouti (not Marwan) run on an independent, secular platform. I dream of a return to the 2-state platorm of the "unified leadership" of the late 80's and early 90's: 67 borders, right of return, East Jerusalem.

We all know those are the issues that must be dealt with. I think Oslo is dead, if it was even ever intended to product anything.

I loved this take on the Oslo process:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n16/sieg01_.html

[oberliner]

29. Isn't Hebron considered a "pro-Hamas" city?

That may have played a role.

[azurnoir]

33. May have played a "role" how or in what

However as far as "Palestinian Security" goes an interesting tidbit

HEBRON, West Bank | Nearly 600 newly trained Palestinian troops took up positions in this tense city on Saturday, as part of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' attempt to expand his control in the West Bank and keep the Islamic militant Hamas in line.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/palestinian-troops-deployed-in-hebron/

[oberliner]

34. In terms of the behavior of the PA police force

I don't know enough about the depths of the Fatah-Hamas antipathy to speculate further.

[azurnoir]

35. Its all speculation really

none of us "common folk" have any way of knowing what if anything went on behind the scenes if there was communication between Palestinian forces and IDF or what if any they were,
I do agree with PM that a joint mission would have sent a message but perhaps not one that the "lines" are ready to carry yet, it also may have been gasoline on a bonfire.

edited to add I find myself wondering about what kind if communication took place that we are not privy to, in many situations concerning all the various parties not in just this case but the I/P situation as a whole

[ProgressiveMuslim]

40. I wasn't advocating a joint mission. I was advocating that the PA police get off the sidelines

and protect their own people from the marauders.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

41. If that were the case, all the more reason for utter disgust.

I never dreamed I'd see the day when Palestinian stood back and allowed Israelis to attack their brothers and sisters because they had different political allegiance.

But no matter how you slice it, that's exactly what happened, regardless of the reason or motivation.

[shira]

7. disgusting

this has to be prosecuted severely

[shira]

10. so, are these pogroms politically based or race/hate based?

opinions please?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. Clearly political... given this party's plan to march in Um El Fahm next.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

9. Do you guys believe ALL of Hebron's settlers need to go?

Or more accurately, that the gov't of Israel has to remove the systems to cushion the settlers, which have created living hell for the vast majority of Hebron's residents? Certanily Israel's policy to support the settlers in the heart of Hebron has destroyed the life of the city and created apartheid-like conditions for the Palestinians who live there.

Do you support the dismantling of these settlements or the gov't policies that keep them in place?

Should 150,000 Palestinians continue to be subject to apartheid-like conditions to enshrine 800 settlers?

[legin]

13. I can invade any country on the planet I like.

These big all encompassing wars are hard to fight successfully.

Limited wars are usually much more successful.

So invade a country in stages, over a time period.

Method:

1. Inject a 'Provacating Agent' into the country to be invaded.

2. The 'Provacating Agent' incites the anger of indigenous neighbouring inhabitants.

3. This leads to a reaction, an 'Outrage' (911 that sort of thing).

4. With the moral ire of your home population suitably aroused by the 'Outrage', you can now move to your 'Action Phase' i.e. invade some territory.

5. Consolidation: Start going around oozing moral virtue and talking about 'going the last mile for peace'. Give back the territory you invaded but not all of it.

6. Move your reinforced 'Provacating Agent' into your newly acquired territory.

7. Back to step 2 unless you have finished invading the country.

[azurnoir]

15. Take a look at events in Israel the OT and Gaza

starting say November1 perhaps the Israeli government has a "use" for the settlers as more than just territorial place holders.

[azurnoir]

14. Just Hebron? n/t

[ProgressiveMuslim]

17. I'm trying to discern how the liberal zionists who post here view the settler situation.

Is the core problem that the settlers suddenly launched a pogrom? Do they identify the very presence of these settlers, with their attendant apartheid restrictions (all set up to ensure the settlers' safety) are equally egregious? What about the presence of bedroom community settlers, which also require apartheid-creating accommodations like Jews-only road?

Where does the settler immorality end or begin?

[IndianaGreen]

18. Isn't "liberal zionist" an oxymoron?

There are only two solutions to I/P problem (a third solution is that they all slaughter each other). The most logical one is for Israel to publicly annex all of the occupied lands and granting immediate and unconditional citizenship to all peoples living within the expanded borders, followed by new elections in which everyone gets to vote for a new government in what would become a federated state of Israel. Those that want a Jewish or an Islamic state will be disappointed in that solution. The most practical solution is for Israel to immediately and unconditionally withdraw behind their borders as they stood prior to June 1967. The Sharon Wall will be relocated to the new demarcation line. Let the Palestinians work out their problems behind their side of the wall, let the Israelis work out theirs behind their side of the wall. This may lead to a civil war on either side of Sharon's wall, but then, if they can't learn to live in peace with themselves it is highly unlikely they can live in peace with anyone else.

As to the US, we should just get the frak out of the entire region. The hell with their oil and their religious mumbo-jumbo that has given this planet nothing but death and destruction since the days of Emperor Constantine.

[Vegasaurus]

19. Although it is not possible or practical to go back to the "borders"

of 1967 for security reasons and the fact that no one in Israel is moving a half a million people when it will likely mean rockets and bombs on major cities, you have a point.

I think the wall should be finished and let the people on either side work it out is right.

Right now there is next to no political will for factions on the Palestinian side to work together and none at all for working together with Israel.

As time goes on, the settlers and religious right in Israel get more intractable too, and harder to pull into the peace process. They are becoming a problem for the mainstream in Israel.

The best time for peace may be gone, and what is left is for each side to simply work out their own issues themselves, on their side of the wall.

That would mean that Israel is no longer responsible for the welfare of the Palestinians though.

And I agree that the US needs to get out of the whole region, but won't, because of their own geopolitical interests and greed.

[pelsar]

31. get em out...

the hebron settlers....btw as i understand many of the progromites werent even from hebron......


Where does the settler immorality end or begin?.....where security of the israeli population begins

[LeftishBrit]

32. That these RW settlers were ever allowed to settle there in the first place

That, assuming they did, the government didn't crack down on them much earlier.

That the occupation hasn't ended long ago.

That (related to above) there isn't a two-state solution.

That there has been expansion of settlements, long after it was clear that this must end (though the far-RW thugs and terrorists are a minority of all settlers).

One can be 'Zionist', i.e. in favour of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, and still be anti-occupation.

'Where does the settler immorality end or begin?'

I hope it ENDS soon in a two-state solution with an end to the settlements.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Well said n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

23. Yes, they all need to go...

No more fucking around. No more excuses. The fucking around and excuses have gone on for way too long, imo...

[elleng]

20. Thanks, all, for this civil discussion.

I'm glad to see it; only hope it could/would occur elsewhere.

[Alamuti Lotus]

27. Reminds me of Munich

You know, the whole "beer hall" meetings..

[Scurrilous]

42. 10 Dec. '08: Hebron: Willful abandonment by security forces

<snip>

"On 4 December, immediately after the settlement in Hebron’s a-Ras neighborhood (“the House in Dispute”) was evicted, B'Tselem issued a public call to security forces to protect the Palestinian residents of the city, and Palestinians throughout the West Bank, from expected acts of revenge by settlers.

In the weeks that preceded the eviction, settlers attacked Palestinians and damaged Palestinian property daily in Hebron. Although these attacks were extensive and prolonged, Israel’s security forces failed to prevent them. In one of the incidents that B'Tselem documented, on 30 November, about 50 settlers entered a Palestinian neighborhood at 2:00 A.M., accompanied by an army jeep. The settlers threw stones that shattered windowpanes of houses and of some 25 cars, and punctured the tires of the cars. They then threw stones at houses in the neighborhood and shattered windowpanes.

Despite B'Tselem’s warning, and despite the high probability that attacks of this kind would occur, the security forces failed to properly protect the city’s Palestinian residents also after the eviction, when settlers invaded Palestinian neighborhoods in the city, torched houses and cars, threw stones, shattered windowpanes, and damaged solar-heated water tanks, satellite dishes, and water containers.

A particularly severe attack occurred in Hebron’s Wadi al-Hussein neighborhood, by the house of the al-Matariyeh and Abu Sa’ifan families. Jamal Abu-Sa'ifan, a participant in B'Tselem's camera distribution project, filmed the event. A settler fired at three members of the al-Matariyeh family from close range, wounding them. A second settler fired into the air and towards the photographer, trying also to grab the camera from him. A third settler fired into the air and towards the house. B'Tselem handed over the video to the police the same day. Two of the suspects surrendered themselves to the police two days later and have since been released."

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[Scurrilous]

43. Barak weighs compensating Palestinians for damage caused by settlers

<snip>

"Defense Minister Ehud Barak said Sunday that he had instructed his office to consider compensating Palestinians in the West Bank city of Hebron for property damage caused by rampaging settlers.

During the weekly cabinet meeting, Barak said "the recent disturbances in the West Bank are an attempt by a small extreme group to undermine the authority of the state to enforce the law within its boundaries."

"Law breakers should be punished with severity," he went on to say, criticizing the judicial system for doling out light punishments to violent extremists."

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