The deadly consequences of the games that Israel plays

[Violet_Crumble]

"Hamas has broken the ceasefire and engaged in an act of aggression against Israel. Israel has responded."— Julia Gillard

ACTING Prime Minister Julia Gillard's statement to the media has an undeniable logic, which was elaborated by Fania Oz-Salzberger on this page in yesterday's Age.

The firing of rockets into Israel, Oz-Salzberger argues, is an unprovoked act of aggression that requires a response. While Israelis may regret the dreadful necessity of the unfolding slaughter in Gaza, they are, in fact, the victims of a cynical Hamas ploy that deliberately "pitches infantry among infants and babies among barricades".

In the 18th century, Voltaire noted that "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". To understand Israel's offensive, therefore, one must examine how the foregoing narrative fits with reality.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-deadly-consequences-of-the-games-that-israel-plays-20081231-77x8.html?page=-1

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[azurnoir]

2. We have seen the rewriting of history and reality daily

on this forum. Today it was that Hamas gunmen are hiding in hospitals disguised as medical personnel , hiding in Mosques and inb civilian homes that one just never gets tired as I have pointed out the densety of Gaza 10,655 people per square mile so it was a stretch to say that Hamas and just who is Hama, was purposely hiding amongst civilians, Israel has been trying to redraw who is a civilian along with the human shields meme, and it has come to light that quite possibly any male over the age 12 is considered Hamas and a few females for good measure.
You get the idea control the information and you control the reality but Israel and its supporters no longer control the information and that has them scared

[IndianaGreen]

3. The best rewriting of history is Israel's version of the USS Liberty attack

They even went so far as to smear the memory of our brave sailors killed by Israel on the high seas.

[azurnoir]

10. The worst part is that the USN went along with it

at least for the most part.

[oberliner]

11. You think the Liberty attack was deliberate?

Seriously?

[azurnoir]

13. Seriously don't know

and isn't the question really did the Israeli navy know who they were attacking

[LeftishBrit]

17. deleted (posted in wrong place)

[oberliner]

19. Have you listened to the tapes or read the transcripts?

a lot of info was made available by the freedom of information act not too long ago

if you haven't checked them out, i'd be curious to see what you think once you do

[LeftishBrit]

18. Lots of British soldiers have been killed by American friendly fire

any case: the people and grouos who use a country's real or imagined sins of 40 or more years ago as relevant to current relations with the country and drag them into current situations VERY rarely have a liberal agenda. Even with countries that really were once major enemies. Americans who still bring up old scores against the Japanese or the Vietnamese as a justification for hating these countries; British anti-EU campaigners who bring up wartime grievances against Germany and Italy - these are generally pursuing RW views.

The sort of groups that campaign politically against support of Israel on the basis of the Liberty episode - have you seriously examined them? Google Phil Tourney, and find out where his articles get published. These are at best reactionary neo-isolationist groups; at worst, they include the likes of Stormfront. I can assure you that these people and groups would HATE almost everyone on DU; and would consider your own often-expressed Marxist views as practically Satanic. Yet because they are anti-Israel, you seem prepared to take them seriously.

Note that I am NOT criticizing Liberty survivors and relatives for campaigning for investigations and compensation; only people who use the Liberty as fodder for xenophobic attacks on Israel. And Palestinians or pro-Palestinians, who welcome the support of the latter, are falling into the same trap as Israelis and pro-Israelis who welcome the support of the Christian Zionists. In neither case are these people true friends.

[GoesTo11]

31. I take it the Zionists control Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

[sam sarrha]

5. this is 98% wag'n the dog for the upcoming election there..

[sam sarrha]

4. the English had a terrible suicide Jihad problem during the colonization of India, the Muslims would

wrap themselves tightly in Burlap then attack the english in their public and private places. the burlap would slow the bleeding and keep their guts in if shot or attacked with bayonet/swords, etc

there was really no defense against them, berserking into a cafe killing with a sword etc till killed. the English finally started to sew to the dead martyrs in freshly skinned pig hide and buried them in an undisclosed location. knowing the English they surely filled up the hide with pig shit.
this very quickly ended the attacks.

[enlightenment]

6. Sam, do you have a link or source for that information?

I teach history and would like to read more about it.

Thank you.

[bemildred]

7. Probably a fanciful elaboration of the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857.

I have seen similar "history" WRT the US in the Philippines, and other places. Racist twaddle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857#Onset_of_the_Rebellion

[enlightenment]

23. Yes, I'm very familiar with the Sepoy muntiny, the Pindari Wars,

etc. I wasn't familiar with this particular rendition of British/Indian 'relations' - that's why I was asking for a source . . .

[bemildred]

24. Sorry if I interfered.

Only trying to help.

[enlightenment]

25. Oh, no!

bemildred, I'm sorry - I didn't mean to sound rude!

I was just agreeing with you, really. Because I am familiar with the Sepoy Mutiny and Pindari wars, I was a bit surprised to see a reference to something very different then either of those things. That's why I was asking sam for a source.

I'm sorry it came out looking surly. It really wasn't intended.

[bemildred]

26. No problem.

It sounds like you know more than I do about it.

Sometimes I don't want people to muddy up my conversations, and I didn't want to do that myself.

[enlightenment]

27. I understand. Thank you for considering that!

If you're interested (and you seem to be :) ), I can point you toward a couple of good sources for more information on the Sepoy Mutiny and Pindari wars - it is a very interesting period in Indian colonial history.

[bemildred]

28. Can't hurt.

Indian history is a very big subject. But I do read a lot.
:-)

[enlightenment]

29. Big subject is right, all right!

My focus area is 18th century Britain . . . I've barely scratched the surface of Indian history (but I'm working on it . . .!)

Here are a few I've found useful, that aren't just broad overviews, since you've probably already read those.
(Trying for available online stuff . . .)

Pindari Society and the Establishment of British Paramountcy in India
by Philip F. McEldowney (MA thesis, 1966)
http://lib.virginia.edu/area-studies/SouthAsia/Ideas/pindaris.html
*very useful bibliography

The Long-term Impact of Colonial Rule: Evidence from India
by Lakshmi Iyer (October 2004)
http://www.people.hbs.edu/liyer/iyer_colonial_oct2004.pdf
*this one focuses on the economics

War of No Pity: The Indian Mutiny and Victorian Trauma
by Christopher Herbert (Princeton UPress, 2008)
http://books.google.com/books?id=1aAadVhA51oC&printsec=frontcover
*this is a partial preview - but good to get an idea of the book (which is worth reading in its entirety)

[bemildred]

30. Why thank you. Those look quite interesting. nt

[sam sarrha]

8. i found this...

http://www.uni-erfurt.de/eestudies/eese/artic24/templar/2_2004.html
The American 'War against Muslim Terrorism,' Chapter 1
A fascinating cinematic text to tie into this mix of discourse, readily available on video, is Hollywood's only treatment of the Philippine war of conquest, the 1939 action film The Real Glory.30 Released two years before Pearl Harbor and set in Mindanao in 1906, the film features a unit of Marines gung-ho to crush a 'suicidal' Moro uprising. Stereotypical portrayals abound.31 It is also Hollywood's first movie about American warrior-heroes fighting Islamic 'terrorists.'


One memorable scene is where Gary Cooper (as the heroic Marine doctor Cpt. Canavan on this most Western 'Christian' frontier of America) tries to frighten the Moros by threatening to wrap any terrorist the Americans kill in a pigskin and bury him. And 'of course' the Moros quail, panicked

over the chilling prospect of defilement, supposedly barring their entry forever into Paradise. What is the possible source of this distinctively racist Orientalism in the film? A legend began to circulate around 1911 that Gen. Pershing had threatened Muslim guerrillas on Mindanao with execution and burial in 'pigskins with hog guts poured over their bodies'-and that this measure had served to demoralize them and stop their violence. There is indeed some evidence that a Col. Alexander Rodgers (6th Cavalry) under his command did resort to this 'tactic.' In any event, it reappears in the 1939 movie and has more recently resurfaced both in Israel and in connection with Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan in 2002. Sen. Bob Graham of Florida was reported as suggesting at a gathering in Washington that maybe the military could think about burying al Qaeda activists in pigskins, as intrepid John Pershing had done with Moros in the Philippines a century ago, while forcing fellow terrorists to look on in horror. That stratagem would perhaps help hasten victory in the 'war on terrorism.' In Israel, the daily Yediot Aharanot carried a story in 2001 that Sharon's Deputy Police Minister Gideon Esra had floated the idea the Israeli government bury any Muslim 'terrorists' they could lay hands on, especially the remains of suicide bombers, in pigskins-as a deterrent to help quell the Intifada. Rumors have circulated that settlers in Gush Katif (Gaza Strip) and residents of Efrat, a Jewish settlement near Bethlehem, buried the body of a dead 'terrorist' in pigskin and lard. Shlomo Riskin, Efrat's chief rabbi, has defended the practice as a tactic: "If burial in pigskin will deter suicide bombers, then it is incumbent on us to do this. We should do anything to save life."32

and this...
http://www.soldierlife.com/2006/06/26/general-black-jack-pershing/
Just before World War I, there were a number of terrorist attacks against the United States and it’s interests by, you guessed it, Muslim extremists.

So General Pershing captured 50 of the terrorists and had them tied to posts execution style. He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the, now horrified, terrorists.

The soldiers then soaked their bullets in pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad.

The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist’s bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc.

They let the 50th man go. And for about the next 42 years, there was not a single attack by a muslim fanatic anywhere in the world.



....during the Iranian hostage crisis.. a Special Ops Marine i lived with said they should load up B52's full of live pigs and carpet bomb Teran with pig shit.. it took a while to get the picture of thousands of pigs squeeling down out of the sky, out of my mind..

[azurnoir]

14. Interesting

I guess Rabbi Riskin was Reform?

[Hannah Bell]

32. a gary cooper movie = history?

[azurnoir]

9. I have never heard that one before

was this during or after the British East India Co. rule?

[sam sarrha]

12. i believe it was, i cant find a link... i've reloaded Xp on this computer at least 8 or 10 times..

some links below

[LeftishBrit]

21. I think this is a rather 'colourful' description of the Indian Rebellion of 1857...

called by the colonialists the 'Indian Mutiny'.

Though Muslims, who objected to biting greasy cartridges, were among the rebellious sepoys, there were many factors involved. And the rebellion was not constant throughout the history of colonialism.

The rest sounds a bit questionable - it's not part of the usual history. Suicide attacks were not common by any group in the 19th century, though they may have occurred at times. The revolting suggestion that Muslim suicide bombers should be buried in pig skins is something that I have heard several times from right-wingers, and it probably stems from something that really happened at some time. But I don't think it can have happpened with frequency in Muslim parts of the British Empire Empire, or there would have been even more rebellions.

[IndianaGreen]

15. Major Protest Against Gaza Assault, Friday, January 2 at 3:30 pm

Major Protest Against Gaza Assault
Rally & March in Washington, D.C.

Friday, January 2 at 3:30 pm

Rally at the Israeli Embassy - 3514 International Dr, NW
(Van Ness metro on the Red line; near Connecticut & Van Ness)

Followed by march ending at the Egyptian Embassy
3521 International Ct, NW

Yesterday, tens of thousands of people took to the streets in scores of cities across the country and around the world demanding an immediate end to the bombing of Gaza. In Washington D.C., 5,000 people gathered at the State Department and marched to the White House. Those taking to the streets included many children, teenagers and young adults. As the nighttime march entered the White House grounds, it took over and filled all of Pennsylvania Avenue with young people raising Palestinian flags at the White House fence. For a report on other demonstrations that happened all across the country, please visit the ANSWER Coalition website (see below).

The massacre of the Palestinian people continues. Nearly 400 Palestinians have been murdered. Israel has rejected any ceasefire, and the Egyptian government continues to block Palestinians who are trying to cross the border to escape the massive bombing campaign.

The ANSWER Coalition, Muslim American Society Freedom and the National Council of Arab Americans are calling for all progressive people to come out for a large-scale demonstration at the Israeli Embassy on Friday, January 2 at 3:30 pm. We will then march to the Egyptian Embassy.

A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition
http://www.answercoalition.org/

[shira]

16. this article is a complete joke

"...one must examine how the foregoing narrative fits with reality".

ROTFLOL.

[azurnoir]

22. Well I see gee what was that quote?

Oh yeah DU's "best and brightest" is back but can you prove your claim or are there to many big words in the quote for you to understand it? I mean you seem to think it is funny can you explain in detail lease why

[ProgressiveMuslim]

20. And there is fundamental disagreement on the facts regarding who broke the ceasefire.

Even if someone accepts the Israeli version of facts, their actions STILL don't make sense.