New envoy to U.S.: Soon Jews won't want to live in Israel

[IndianaGreen]

Last update - 03:22 12/05/2009

New envoy to U.S.: Soon Jews won't want to live in Israel

By Natasha Mozgovaya, Haaretz Correspondent

Oren, a historian from the Shalem Center whom Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has tapped for Israel's top diplomatic post, described a country rotten to the core, riddled by everything from drug dealing to white slavery, from money laundering to illegal arms trading.

He reported that not even the army has escaped the clutches of corruption, thus weakening Israelis' will to fight for their country, or even to live in it. Moreover, Oren complained, Israel's best and brightest are being persecuted around the world for what the country's detractors term "war crimes."

Upon reading this article (which was written before he was appointed to his ambassadorial post), American Jews will also learn that the Jewish people will soon lose Jerusalem as its eternal capital, as this city, too, is under existential threat: A majority of Jerusalem's inhabitants (272,000 Arabs and 200,000 ultra-Orthodox, out of a total of 800,000 residents) are not Zionists; secular Jews are fleeing the city; and fully half of Israel's youth have never even visited the holy city.

According to Oren, "if this trend continues, Ben Gurion's nightmare will materialize and Israel will be rendered soulless, a country in which a great many Jews may not want to live or for which they may not be willing to give their lives."

Next on the list are the existential demographic threat, the existential terrorist threat and the existential threat of Iran's nuclear capability. Interspersed throughout the article are a few rather existential historical inaccuracies, such as the claim that no Arab leader has ever recognized Israel as a Jewish state (the 1988 Palestinian declaration of independence recognized the Jewish state), or that between 1957 and 1967, hundreds of Jews were killed in acts of terror (the number is less than two dozen).

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1084938.html

[bemildred]

1. A strange mixture of "Ya think?" and "What!".

Can Bibi pick 'em?
:popcorn:

[IndianaGreen]

2. The Machiavellian Bibi picked this guy because he needed someone easy to discredit

if the need were to rise. Bibi is not interested in any sort of peace deal that would jeopardize the settlement movement.

Interesting read at the bottom of the article about the Israeli delegation to the International Women's Commission.

[bemildred]

3. Yeah, I read the whole thing.

I found the paragraph that starts with this interesting: "This delusional article should come as no surprise to Haaretz readers with long memories." Plus ca change, plus meme.

I would expect Bibi picks lots of minions to be disposable. He's probably going to have to do a lot of disposing.

---

The IWC thing gives me a headache. Is Zippy supposed to be part of the left-peace contingent now? What a mess.

[peacetalksforall]

4. My foreboding of Israel under Netanyahu gives me regretful shivers.

My foreboding of the U.S. under Netanyahu also gives me the shivers. I'm not sure where we are, but it seems we are under a blackmail & hostage holding situation with our Congress and many areas of government. All centered on ultra intelligence. Did something go awry in relationships?

Why can't hardly any U.S. representative tell it like it is with expansion and the treatment of Palestinians.

Most of our representatives condemn Chavez and Morales or are silent about them.

This country is a little sick when it comes to international relations. It seems that they are more then willing to pursue the 'creation of enemies' and 'creation of bad parnerships' route. A person has to wonder.

[shira]

5. Akiva Eldar is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts

Attempting to discredit Oren, Eldar writes that less than 2 dozen Jews died between 1957-67. It was at least 125.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/1/Terrorism%20deaths%20in%20Israel%20-%201920-1999

Also, there is nothing in the Palestinian Declaration of Independence from 1988 recognizing a Jewish state.

It's impossible to take people like Eldar seriously. He must have written this article knowing full well what he was "refuting". Of course, for some reason fantasy is best for some - as groupthink and raw emotion trumps facts - even for many otherwise intelligent people. Pretty sad state of affairs.

[bemildred]

6. Palestinian Declaration of Independence

--

"In the context of its struggle for peace in the land of Love and Peace, the State of Palestine calls upon the United Nations to bear special responsibility for the Palestinian Arab people and its homeland. It calls upon all peace-and freedom-loving peoples and states to assist it in the attainment of its objectives, to provide it with security, to alleviate the tragedy of its people, and to help it terminate Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territories.

The State of Palestine herewith declares that it believes in the settlement of regional and international disputes by peaceful means, in accordance with the UN Charter and resolutions. Without prejudice to its natural right to defend its territorial integrity and independence, it therefore rejects the threat or use of force, violence and terrorism against its territorial integrity or political independence, as it also rejects their use against the territorial integrity of other states."


http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/pal/pal3.htm

[shira]

7. where does it recognize the Jewish state of Israel?

[bemildred]

8. It rejects violence?

When has Israel rejected violence?

[shira]

9. Akiva Eldar claimed the Palestinian Decl. of Indep 1988 recognized a Jewish State

nowhere does the declaration mention such a thing. It appears Eldar made this up, just as he made up the claim that less than 2 dozen Jews died between 1957-67 due to attacks.

[bemildred]

11. Well, it's a bit vague about it, that's why I put it up, so people could read it.

But I thought rejecting all violence was pretty good, one of the things they are supposed to do. I wasn't really trying defend what's his names facts, just providing the actual text so people could read it.

[azurnoir]

13. Well ya know this part

"Without prejudice to its natural right to defend its territorial integrity and independence, it therefore rejects the threat or use of force, violence and terrorism against its territorial integrity or political independence, as it also rejects their use against the territorial integrity of other states."

could well have been referring to Japan or Iceland or something

[bemildred]

15. Well, definitely nothing about a Jewish State there.

Much too vague. Could be Russia. Could be Egypt. Who knows? What's his name definitely pushed it way too far.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Amazing how quickly you adopt the Likud's line, or more accurately Bibi's line

Recognizing Israel's right to exist is not the same as Bibi's new demand that everyone recognizes Israel as a Jewish theocracy before there are peace talks.

It is one thing to have a state for Jews, the original Zionist idea, and it is quite another to have a jihadist Jewish state in which the religious assault women at the Western Wall because "women's voices are lewd.

[azurnoir]

12. Well the Moslems have them so

we want one too, its kind of a keeping up with the "abu Jones" sort of thing, not to mention that it almost makes the conflation between Israel and all Jews automatic at least for some and well then there are the Israeli Palestinians to consider...... all in all a win-win for the rightists

[IndianaGreen]

14. Our Founding Fathers rejected theocracy over two centuries ago

Interesting how the Christian jihadists want a Christian state in America, just as other jihadists want their Islamic state in places such as Pakistan, etc.

[shira]

16. pay better attention

The author of the OP, Akiva Eldar, claimed the Palestinian Declaration of Independence in 1988 recognized a Jewish state. Eldar was apparently "correcting" Michael Oren in his latest Haaretz article but it appears Oren was right all along and Eldar is full of shit for reasons unknown.