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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 01:59 PM
Original message
First stop the terror
Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 02:01 PM by rini
Israeli restraint makes terrorism more likely


By Jeff Jacoby



Even by the grim standards of recent years, the suicide bombings in Tel Aviv this week were horrific.

The terrorists, members of the Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade (a wing of Yasser Arafat's Fatah organization), positioned themselves at opposite ends of a busy street and blew themselves up 30 seconds apart. That was to guarantee the maximum number of casualties -- as terrified pedestrians fled the first explosion, many ran directly toward the bomber waiting to set off the second. The attack murdered 22 civilians and wounded more than 100, many of whom will be maimed for life: The bombs were packed with nails and metal shards so that shrapnel would shred skin and muscle, leaving survivors with agonizing internal injuries or grotesquely disfigured.

It was the third worst terror attack in Israel in the past quarter-century, and the Palestinian Authority's initial reaction was to arrest the Al Jazeera correspondent who first reported that Fatah was involved. Then Arafat's spokesman issued a statement in English expressing "total condemnation of these terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians."


But at about the same time, the Fatah web site posted another statement -- in Arabic -- celebrating the attacks:

"With faith in the calling of holy jihad," it said, "two suicide attackers . . . succeeded this evening to infiltrate the Zionist roadblocks and to enter the heart of . . . Tel Aviv and carried out two consecutive suicide attacks. . . . These suicide attacks caused a large number of fatalities and casualties in the center of the Zionist occupation of our land. We swear before our people that additional suicide operations will occur."

Note the description of Tel Aviv, a city founded by Jews in 1909 and laid out on the empty sand dunes north of Jaffa: "the center of the Zionist occupation." To Fatah -- which is to say, to Arafat and the Palestinian leadership -- the borders of the "occupation" are not those of Gaza or the West Bank. They are the borders of Israel.

That is a view with which much of Arab opinion concurs. ArabicNews.com, for example, datelined its story on the Tel Aviv attack "Palestine-Israel," and reported that the bombings had killed "23 Israeli settlers." This despite the fact that none of the dead were residents of the settlements. Nearly one-third, in fact, weren't Israeli at all; they were non-Jewish guest workers from Europe, China, and Africa.

Israel reacted to Sunday's slaughter not with a devastating military assault on Palestinian positions but with mere gestures: Combat helicopters fired on a weapons factory in Gaza, Palestinian delegates were barred from traveling to a conference in London, and some West Bank colleges were temporarily closed.

But mere gestures are not going to wipe out terrorism, nor are they going to turn Palestinian hearts and minds against the terrorists. Mere gestures can only feed Palestinian contempt for Israeli weakness, and reinforce the conviction that violence pays.


And for years now, violence has paid. In the 1970s, the PLO's hijackings and mass-murders won it international recognition and attention. The mayhem of the first intifada yielded the Oslo agreement, which legitimized the PLO and gave Arafat and his lieutenants a dictatorship in Gaza and the West Bank. The stepped-up terrorism of the Oslo years -- the years of the grossly misnamed "peace process" -- culminated in former Prime Minister Ehud Barak's astonishing offer of full sovereignty, dismantled settlements, and shared control of Jerusalem. The bloodshed inflicted by Hezbollah led to Israel's unilateral retreat from southern Lebanon.

It is no wonder that so many Palestinians believe that terror and violence will eventually lead to the end of Israel and the creation of a 23d Arab state. The wonder is that Israel doesn't use its tremendous military power to disabuse them of that belief once and for all.

In fairness it must be said that Israel is not entirely free to act in its own best interest. It is under intense pressure from the US government to do nothing that might roil the Arab world in advance of the American invasion of Iraq. But why shouldn't Israel be permitted to deal with Palestinian terrorism as the United States is dealing with Al Qaeda? Why should Washington's plan to oust Saddam Hussein and transform Iraq into a democracy prevent Israel from ousting Arafat and working a similar transformation of Palestinian society?

After all, President Bush himself stressed last June that just such a sea change is a prerequisite for Arab-Israeli peace. Nothing is more crucial, he said, than replacing the cruel Arafat-Hamas regime with "a new and different Palestinian leadership," one "not compromised by terror." Only when Palestinians can sustain, in Bush's words, "a practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty" will it make sense to demand even more concessions from Israel, or to talk about Palestinian statehood.

To demand "restraint" of Israel now, to insist that it voluntarily suppress its right to self-defense, is to make bloody atrocities like Sunday's not less likely, but more so. Like the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Palestinian Authority and the murderers it supports must be crushed. That is the first step to peace.
Jewish World Review Jan. 10, 2003


~~~~Choil15@aol.com~~~~

I hope the moderators allow this.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kill more! Shoot more! More violence! More death!
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. yawn
.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. In regard to I/P...
ArabicNews.com always puts -Palestine after the place.

See:

Morocco deplores blasts in al-Quds, Haifa
Morocco-Palestine, Politics, 12/3/2001

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/011203/2001120324.html

I'm looking for this particular article - what's the date of this?
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Well, to be exact...
Israel-Palestine was the subject, which makes sense since this had to do with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict...
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Link to article in question...
Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 02:26 PM by Darranar
Two Palestinian operations in Tel Aviv result in killing 23 Israelis, wounding 80
Palestine-Israel, Military, 1/6/2003

Two Palestinians yesterday carried out two operations near a coach station in the downtown of Tel Aviv that resulted in killing 23 Israeli settlers and wounding other 80, seven of them in a critical health condition.

The Israeli radio said that two violent explosions took place at two road crossings just 200 meters far from each other and resulted in heavy damages, while the Israeli TV said that there was only one minute of time between the two explosions.

Meantime, one Israeli soldier was wounded in clashes that took place yesterday at one of the Israeli military positions near Ghoushe Katif settlement while the Israeli forces carried out a campaign of arrest that targeted seven Palestinians from Toulkarem, Nablus, Qalqilya and three from Gaza and also other three from Ya'bud, Jenin on charges of resisting the occupation and having weapons. The Israeli forces had arrested 1300 Palestinian by the end of last week in the territories of 1948.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030106/2003010618.html
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Do you realize you are talking to yourself?
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes...
Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 02:36 PM by Darranar
yet perhaps some will listen.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. He isn't talking to himself.
Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 04:42 PM by Scurrilous
Many people lurk in this forum without posting constantly. We are here to read and learn. Just because at one point Darranar was the only one posting on this thread doesn't mean his views were going unheard.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. FYI, I'm a "he"...
and thanks.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Ooops.
Sorry about that. :0
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. You should try it
I do it often. There's two of me, and they talk/argue a lot.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Jan 10, 2003...it is old news presented as if it happened today...
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. No, you go first....
"death"
No, you go first...
*death*
No, you go first...
*death*
No, you go first...
*death*
No, you go first...
*death*
No, you go first...
*death*
No, you go first...
*death*
No, you go first...
*death*

Is there a pattern here?
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ForestsBeatBushes Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Do you have any idea what the other posters here read?
Perhaps those on the "P" side of I/P don't get to see anything the "I" side posts because no one has responded to the article you posted. I know we get to see what they post because there's always lots of debating about it, but if they had only read the following portion:

--"With faith in the calling of holy jihad," it said, "two suicide attackers . . . succeeded this evening to infiltrate the Zionist roadblocks and to enter the heart of . . . Tel Aviv and carried out two consecutive suicide attacks. . . . These suicide attacks caused a large number of fatalities and casualties in the center of the Zionist occupation of our land. We swear before our people that additional suicide operations will occur."

Note the description of Tel Aviv, a city founded by Jews in 1909 and laid out on the empty sand dunes north of Jaffa: "the center of the Zionist occupation." To Fatah -- which is to say, to Arafat and the Palestinian leadership -- the borders of the "occupation" are not those of Gaza or the West Bank. They are the borders of Israel.

That is a view with which much of Arab opinion concurs. ArabicNews.com, for example, datelined its story on the Tel Aviv attack "Palestine-Israel," and reported that the bombings had killed "23 Israeli settlers." This despite the fact that none of the dead were residents of the settlements. Nearly one-third, in fact, weren't Israeli at all; they were non-Jewish guest workers from Europe, China, and Africa."--

one would think they might address it; too much for them?
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. One of the...
writer's claims has already been debunked - the significance of having Palestine after Israel, seperated by a dash.

I can't read Arabic, so I can't verify it.
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rini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. which claims
name them. The bombings were falsified? what are you talking about?
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. This one:
That is a view with which much of Arab opinion concurs. ArabicNews.com, for example, datelined its story on the Tel Aviv attack "Palestine-Israel,"

It doesn't matter - all articles detailing the I/P conflict are done like that.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. An interesting prespective a year on (almost).
You have to wonder what this fellow thinks a
"lack of restraint" looks like, or maybe he is just
trying to fend it off, like self-control was a bad
thing. But that argument is flawed, just because the
other fellow is a berserker does not mean that your best
option is to do likewise. This is especially the case
where modern weapons are in use.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. nothing is too rightwing for I/P
are you familiar with Jacoby?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. More "quality" articles by Jeff
A BUM 'BIGOTRY' RAP ON RUSH

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/10/05/a_bum_bigotry_rap_on_limbaugh/

WHY ARNOLD OFFENDS THEM

http://www.bigeye.com/jj092103.htm

MORE PRISONERS, LESS CRIME

http://www.bigeye.com/jj082803.htm

PIPES'S EFFECTIVE PATH TO PEACE

http://www.bigeye.com/jj062203.htm

AMERICA THE LIBERATOR

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/086/oped/America_the_liberator+.shtml

THE UNITED NATIONS, RIP

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/075/oped/The_United_Nations_RIP+.shtml

THIS HASN'T BEEN A 'RUSH TO WAR'

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/033/oped/This_hasn_t_been_a_rush_to_war_+.shtml

THE DEATH PENALTY BY THE NUMBERS

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/353/oped/The_death_penalty_by_the_patterns+.shtml

LEARNING ENGLISH FROM DAY 1

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/276/oped/English_101+.shtml

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION CAN BE FATAL

http://www.bigeye.com/jj081202.htm

THE REAL ABORTION EXTREMISTS

http://www.bigeye.com/jj072802.htm

'EXECUTING CHILDREN', AND OTHER DEATH-PENALTY MYTHS

http://www.bigeye.com/jj060202.htm

MORE GUNS, MORE SAFETY

http://www.bigeye.com/jj010302.htm

SMEARS AND SLANDERS FROM THE LEFT

http://www.bigeye.com/jj123001.htm

RUSH LIMBAUGH'S EAR

http://www.bigeye.com/jj101001.htm

juicy quote-"Limbaugh has a strangely unhinging effect on some people. When Al Franken wrote a book about his fellow entertainer and commentator, he crudely titled it *Rush Limbaugh Is a Big, Fat Idiot.* The liberal columnist Carl Rowan once snarled that "the blood of America's race war victims will be on the hands and bloated bodies of Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern." It is hard to say which was more grotesque -- the suggestion that Limbaugh is a racist or the comparison to a bottom-feeder like Stern."

THE DANGER IN SAME-SEX MARRIAGE

http://www.bigeye.com/jj080601.htm

THE FEEBLE 'ARGUMENTS' AGAINST CAPITAL PUNISHMENT

http://www.bigeye.com/jj061801.htm

DO WELFARE MOTHERS A KINDNESS: MAKE THEM WORK

http://www.bigeye.com/jj050301.htm

And this is just a sampling.

Rini,your point of view would be a lot easier to listen to and contemplate if you could present an argument NOT rooted in right-wing lies and propaganda.






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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Ahhhh.....so efficient
now, what did you think of the article??
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The article ain't nuthin but shit
Now,what did YOU think of the article?
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thank you for asking.
my favorite part

"To demand "restraint" of Israel now, to insist that it voluntarily suppress its right to self-defense, is to make bloody atrocities like Sunday's not less likely, but more so. Like the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Palestinian Authority and the murderers it supports must be crushed. That is the first step to peace."

great article.


btw....you owe jim royalties.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Ok
taking this thought to a logical next step,do you believe we did the right thing by not showing "restraint" with Iraq?

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. ?
?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Another try
now that I see you're back on DU.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. This isn't that tough a question is it?
Besides,how often are we civil to each other?
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm so sorry....
this got lost to me...somehow. I didnt ignore it.

"taking this thought to a logical next step,do you believe we did the right thing by not showing "restraint" with Iraq?"

2 different issues

israel has every right to self defence.

the us made a conscious decision to go into iraq.

trying to connect israel's self defence and the us invasion of iraq
is a little hard to do.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Sorry
but you still didn't answer the question! Did you or did you not support the war against Iraq?
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. Locking
Not based on a recent news or op-ed article.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground
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