Riots over Israeli claim to West Bank heritage sites

[shergald]

BBC reporting:

"Israeli soldiers have clashed with protesters in the West Bank town of Hebron after two disputed shrines were listed as Israeli heritage sites. Palestinian protesters threw bottles and stones at soldiers who responded with tear gas and stun grenades.

(snip)

"The occupation has devoted all of its efforts to steal Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem, Hebron and Palestinian cities to change their Arab and Islamic character to prove the country is Jewish," the Palestinian Mufti Sheikh Muhammad Hussein told the Palestinian Maan news agency.

Jordan condemned what it called Israel's "provocative" plan to include the sites, saying it would "harm peace efforts" and "anger millions of Muslims around the world", AFP reported."

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8528231.stm

[dipsydoodle]

1. You may have used the wrong link

I believe this to be the correct one : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8527532.stm

[shergald]

2. Thanks. Corrected.

[cali]

3. you need to correct your title

that is not the title of BBC article and only the exact title is allowed.

thanks.

[dipsydoodle]

4. You may not previously have realised

that our BBC homesite here in the UK have an odd habit of changing their headlines when they update information which may be what occured in this instance.

It is also worth remembering that you cannot access our homesite from the USA - just doesn't work. To prove that I bet that if you try to access http://news.bbc.co.uk/ you get adverts which are not allowed on our homesite - especially in US$s :)

[shergald]

10. I "copied" the BBC title as it appeared here in the US.

But your comment is interesting, because the BBC has at times been accused of having a proIsrael bias, and in regard to this, I sometimes see a quotation about the president or director being married to an Israeli. But I'm not really able to assess this connection to Israel and what the BBC publishes.

Now the New York Times, that's a different matter.

http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2010/2/25/85242/7101

[dipsydoodle]

13. I hit your link

and whatever reason it took me into the Middel East general page. From that I got the link I added which was , as I've now noticed , from the day before. I then found your one by googling the title you used.

Sorry about any confusion I may have caused.

I'm not aware of the Beeb having a pro Israel bias. Its a Public Corporation which operates under a Royal Charter. As such in thoery it has no cause for bias. Maybe I'm naive ? :shrug:

:hi:

[oberliner]

14. The BBC has a pro-Israel bias?

I would be curious to read what people thought about that.

[shergald]

18. 'BBC's Pro-Israeli Bias' for what it's worth.

Stephen Lendman
Global Research, June 13, 2008

"In its near 86 year history, BBC has a long, unbroken and dubious distinction. Today it's little different from its corporate-run counterparts in America, Britain and throughout the world. In fact, on its tailored for a US BBC America audience, what passes for news matches stride for stride what people here see every day - mind-numbing commercialism, shoddy reporting, pseudo-journalism, celebrity and sports features, and other diverting and distracting non-news that should embarrass correspondents and presenters delivering it. It offends viewers and treats them like mushrooms - well-watered, in the dark, and uninformed about the most important world and national issues affecting their lives and welfare.

That's the idea, of course, and has been since BBC's inception. John Reith was its founder and first general manager. Reassuring the powerful, he set the standard adhered to thereafter: "(You) know (you) can trust us not to be really impartial." BBC never was and never is.

Impartiality has no place on BBC nor does its claim about "honesty, integrity, (and being) free from political influence and commercial pressure." How can it? Its Director-General, Executive Board Chairman, BBC Trust Chairman and senior managers are government-appointed and charged with a singular task - to function as a "propaganda system for elite interests." On all vital issues - war and peace, state and corporate corruption, human rights, social justice, or coverage of the Middle East's longest and most intractable conflict, Westminster and the establishment rest easy. They know BBC is "reliable" - pro-government, pro-business and dismissive of the public trust it disdains. Now more than ever.

This article covers one example among many - BBC's distorted, one-sided support for Israel and its antipathy toward Palestinians. In this respect, it's fully in step with its American and European counterparts - Israeli interests matter; Palestinian ones don't; as long as that holds, conflict resolution is impossible. Therein lies the problem. With its reputation, world reach, and influence, BBC's coverage exacerbates it."

Read on here: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9307

[oberliner]

19. Stephen Lendman and "global research" are not unbiased sources themselves

I can provide you links to folks who argue that the BBC has an anti-Israel bias as well if you are interested.

[dipsydoodle]

22. Not a lot

Lendman also writes for rense.com and if you posted a link to that outfit the mods would remove it unless something has changed - think so anyway.

[Douglas Carpenter]

5. "Riots over Israeli claim to West Bank heritage sites" is the exact title I am getting

at this link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8528231.stm

I am accessing it from outside the U.S. of course, which might be the reason you are getting a different headline, assuming your are accessing the link from inside the U.S.

[dipsydoodle]

7. Its working correctly again now

when I used the link earlier it took me into the Middle East general page. :shrug:

[azurnoir]

6. Odd Cali you felt no need to correct the title here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x301681

[cali]

8. not odd at all, sweetie.

When I commented in that thread it was posted in GD where there are no rules about titles. Not to mention that I made it clear that I thought the author was engaging in hyperbole.

[azurnoir]

11. Total BS I have been following the thread since early Sunday

when it landed here

[cali]

12. excuse me? I suggest you look at when I wrote my first comment, dearie.

it was well before the op was moved here. duh. even you should be able to figure that out and stop pulling shit out of your wherever. both of my comments were before it landed here. stop making stuff up to fit your little narrative.

[azurnoir]

15. I did look and the pulling here is yours

but whatever you had to try to clean it up somehow but I have been following it because I wondered how long it would be before it was locked

[cali]

16. babbling paranoid nonsense.

[azurnoir]

25. whatever you say lol

after all your support team is on board ya know Cali you have the distinction of being the only person I have ever had on ignore but I took you off after some time

[azurnoir]

29. IF I am wrong I apologize n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Correct.

The thread wasn't moved to IP until Sunday, February 21, 2010 at 11:55 PM. (source) Only three posts, two with comments were made, after it was moved. Your deleted comment (9:09am, today) wasn't even made until after "azurnoir" (9:08am, today) 'accused' you of not commenting on the title change, which wouldn't have been relevant anyway, unlike your comment to the poster in this thread which would have allowed another 43 minutes or so, to correct the title and be in compliance with IP rules of posting, the other poster would have been unable to do so.

[azurnoir]

26. Just a tad obsessive?

but my compliments you and Cali make a good team really and if I am wrong then I apologize

[azurnoir]

9. I get the title as shown BTW and I am in the US

however this is yet another Israeli "flipping the bird" at the Muslim world

[Jefferson23]

20. Netanyahu: 'Heritage' list won't change West Bank status quo

Last update - 22:56 25/02/2010


By Chaim Levinson, Haaretz Correspondent


Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Thursday that his intentions in adding the two West Bank sites to the list of National Heritage sites were "misunderstood."

"There has been a misunderstanding, as we do not intend to alter the status quo, and we will maintain the freedom of worship for both the Jews and the Muslims at the sites," Netanyahu said.

"Just as we cooperated with the waqf and renovated the Muslim parts of the sites, we now want to renovate the Jewish sections as well," he added.


More than 300 Palestinians in Hebron clashed with Israeli security forces on Thursday, while commemorating the 29 Muslims killed in an attack by Jewish extremist Baruch Goldstein at the Ibrahimi Mosque 16-years ago.

Hadash chairman Mohammed Barakeh who joined the Palestinian protestors alongside some 30 more Israelis, criticized Israel Defense Forces soldiers for attacking the peaceful demonstrators, as well as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for his recent move to add the Tomb of the Patriarchs to the list of National Heritage sites.

"Netanyahu is an expert at lighting fires, and is turning the wheel backwards by repeating his mistakes from his first cadency as Prime Minister," Barakeh said following the demonstration.

"The Netanyahu-Barak government is pushing towards a regional explosion in order to damage any chance of progress," he added.

IDF soldiers attempted to disband the protest by hurling smoke grenades. Barakeh said that they all suffered from smoke inhalation.

remainder here: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1152371.html

[shergald]

21. What is the "status quo?"

Netanyahu states that he will not alter the status quo in the West Bank. Now that a new one, claiming there will be no harm because the occupation and colonization will continue. Was he trying to appease the Palestinians?

I'm just not getting it.

[oberliner]

23. That Jews are restricted from access to portions of the tomb

That those areas will still be administered by the waqf.

That the waqf will still maintain the Tomb of Abraham mosque, etc.

[shergald]

24. That's unfortunate.

Some day we hope to see a cooperative agreement between all peoples who have a religious interest in these sites. But that is not likely to happen until the occupation and the expansion of settlements stops and a fair and just division of the land is implemented.

[azurnoir]

27. There is a reason why access is restricted

The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre occurred when Baruch Goldstein, an Israeli settler and member of the far-right Israeli Kach movement, opened fire on unarmed Palestinian Muslim worshippers praying inside the Cave of the Patriarchs mosque in Hebron in the West Bank. It took place on February 25, 1994, during the overlapping religious holidays of Purim and Ramadan.<1> Between 39 and 52 Muslims were killed and more than 100 others wounded.<1> The attack ended when Goldstein was subdued and beaten to death by the survivors.

The attack set off riots and protests throughout the occupied territories, and an additional 19 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli Defense Forces within 48 hours of the massacre.<2>

Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin condemned the attack, describing Goldstein as a "degenerate murderer", "a shame on Zionism and an embarrassment to Judaism".<3><4><5>

Goldstein was praised as a martyr by Jewish extremists in Hebron and his grave subsequently became a site of "pilgrimage" for his supporters.<6><7><8>

Baruch Goldstein, an Israeli settler originally from the United States, had previously been involved with the Jewish Defense League, a controversial extremist group which has been characterized by the Federal Bureau of Investigation as a terrorist organization,<9> and by the Southern Poverty Law Center as an anti-Arab hate group.<10> In 1981, Goldstein wrote in a letter to the editor published in the New York Times, that the

disparity of birth rates, associated with a declining Aliyah, assures Israel of an Arab majority in Israel (70 years?) unless steps are taken to prevent this from occurring. Ceding the "West Bank" to the "Palestinians" would, therefore, not solve the problem... it would serve only to further jeopardize Israel's security and betray a Biblical trust.

The harsh reality is: if Israel is to avert facing the kinds of problems found in Northern Ireland today, it must act decisively to remove the Arab minority from within its borders.<11>

After immigrating to Israel, Goldstein became involved with Kach, and had a strong personal relationship with Meir Kahane, the militant/extremist Jewish nationalist<12> whose views, regarded by the Israeli government as racist, had caused his party to be banned from the Knesset in 1988 and classed as a terror organisation by Israel and the US.<13> Kahane was assassinated in 1990 by Arab militant El Sayyid Nosair, and Goldstein reportedly swore to take revenge for the killing.<14>
Massacre

The Israeli government divided the Cave of the Patriarchs into two sections, one for Jewish worshippers and the other for Muslim worshippers. At 05:00 a.m. on 25 February, 800 Palestinian Muslims passed through the east gate of the cave to participate in Fajr, the first of the five daily Islamic prayers.<15> The cave was under Israeli Army guard, but of the nine soldiers supposed to have been on duty, four were late turning up, and only one officer was there.<2>

Shortly afterwards, Baruch Goldstein, a Jewish resident of the Kiryat Arba settlement and member of the Kahanist movement, entered the Isaac Hall of the cave. He was dressed in his army uniform and carried an IMI Galil assault rifle and four magazines of ammunition, which held 35 rounds each. He was not stopped by the guards, who assumed that he was an officer entering the tomb to pray in an adjacent chamber reserved for Jews.<3>

Standing in front of the only exit from the cave and positioned to the rear of the Muslim worshippers, he opened fire with the weapon, killing 29 people and injuring another 125.

Reports after the massacre were often contradictory or ambiguous. There was initial uncertainty about whether Goldstein had acted alone; it was reported that eyewitnesses had seen "another man, also dressed as a soldier, handing him ammunition."<16> There were also reports that he had thrown grenades into the worshippers.<4> Yasser Arafat suggested that the attack was the work of up to 12 men, including Israeli troops. There were also various questions as to the Israeli guards outside the cave having opened fire; while Israeli military officials claim that no Israeli troops fired on the Palestinian worshippers, the New York Times reported that over 40 different Palestinian eyewitnesses, many of them confined to hospital beds with gunshot wounds and thus "unable to compare notes", all corroborated that three Israeli guards opened fire in confusion as the Muslims fled the shrine, with one firing into the crowd.<17>

The testimony of various Israeli military officials was often contradictory. For instance, a Major General asserted that the guards had fired only in the air, but the guards themselves later testified to firing some shots "chest high".<18> The guards' testimony was also at odds with the testimony of their ranking officer in claiming they had seen another Jewish settler enter the cave bearing arms.<18>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

Israel officially condemned the massacre but in light of this the claiming of this site as a "heritage" is IMO particularly offensive

[azurnoir]

28. Aren't Muslims restricted from access to certain parts of site also?

After the Six Day War, the area came under the control of Israel and the restriction limiting Jews to the 7th step was lifted. In 1994, Baruch Goldstein took an assault rifle into the enclosure, killing 29 Palestinian Muslims at prayer and injuring 125 others, before being bludgeoned to death by survivors. The resulting riots left an additional 26 Palestinians and 9 Israelis dead. The incident provoked national and international condemnation of Goldstein's actions.

The increased sensitivity of the site meant that in 1995 the Wye River Accords, part of the Arab-Israeli peace process, included a temporary status agreement for the site restricting access for both Jews and Muslims. As part of this agreement, the waqf—a traditional "trust" holding land for Islamic religious purposes—controls 81% of the building. This includes the whole of the southeastern section, which lies above the only known entrance to the caves and possibly over the entirety of the caves themselves. In consequence, Jews are not permitted to visit the Cenotaphs of Isaac or Rebekah, which lie entirely within the southeastern section, except for 10 days a year which hold special significance in Judaism. One of these days is the Shabbat of Chayei Sarah, when the Jews read the Torah portion concerning the deaths of Abraham and Sarah, and that concerning the purchase by Abraham of the land in which the caves are situated.

The Israeli authorities do not allow Jewish religious authorities the right to maintain the site and only allow the waqf to do so. Tourists are permitted to enter the site. Security at the site has increased since the Intifada; the Israel Defense Forces surround the site with soldiers and control access to the shrines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs