Obama: Let Israel probe Gaza flotilla raid with U.S. observer

[azurnoir]

The United States has proposed a possible way for Israel to avoid an international probe of the events surrounding the Gaza flotilla, but at this point Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is leaning against it, in part because Defense Minister Ehud Barak is opposed to it.

The Americans have proposed that Netanyahu announce that an independent Israeli commission of inquiry will look into the events of the flotilla clashes and accept the participation of an American observer.

On Monday and Tuesday, advisers of Prime Minister Netanyahu, Yitzhak Molcho and Uzi Arad, traveled to Washington. On Tuesday they were at the White House with Israel's ambassador to the U.S., Michael Oren, and met National Security Adviser James Jones, and President Barack Obama's adviser on the Middle East, Denis Ross, as well as Dan Shapiro, who holds the Middle East portfolio at the National Security Council.

<snip>

A senior U.S. official delivered an American proposal to the two senior Israeli advisers, which would both assuage the international community and also would not be too hard a blow for Israel's wish to undertake its own investigation without massive foreign involvement.

The American proposal, which calls for an independent commission of inquiry here, with an American representative as an observer, is believed to offer the idea of bolstering international confidence in the probe's conclusions.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/obama-let-israel-probe-gaza-flotilla-raid-with-u-s-observer-1.293853

[Hardrada]

1. Fuck that!

[realisticphish]

2. I hesitate to step in here

but I think this is a bad idea. If the concern is over international acceptance of findings, a joint Israeli-American inquiry does absolutely nothing. The U.S. is already viewed as a supporter of Israel, which we are. The presence of an American will mean nothing to most people. If you want to do this, include an observer from another nation; Germany, France, maybe even Turkey. IMHO, that's the only way for Israel to smoothly deal with an Israeli-led probe.

Just my two cents.

[backscatter712]

3. Not good enough.

I don't trust Israel's gov't in this. Give them the driver's seat in the investigation and they'll just whitewash it. And the U.S. isn't keen on preventing that from happening.

[movonne]

4. Sure that is crazy....let Turkey do the probing...

[aquart]

18. Turkey! Yeah, they're impartial.

And not a drop of blood dripping from their hands.

[backscatter712]

5. Best idea is to give the probing to a third-party nation with no skin in the game.

Sweden, perhaps?

[LakeSamish706]

7. Yep, I like that! n/t

[EFerrari]

8. Turkey has jurisdiction. n/t

[backscatter712]

11. Maybe so, but it might be better if a truly neutral party was observing. n/t

[azurnoir]

9. No not Sweden either because of the Aftonbladet "scandal"

as seen here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=284572

[backscatter712]

10. Hmm. A different country then. Switzerland? Some other nation?

[azurnoir]

12. Too close to Germany Japan maybe?

Idon't think Japan has done anything to offend Israel lately but I could be wrong

BTW Aftonbladet is considered to a tabliod like the Enquirer or the Globe

[backscatter712]

15. Japan could work.

Perhaps Brazil or Argentina, or maybe East Asian nations - Thailand? Like I said, no skin in the game - I'm looking for nations that aren't affected directly whichever way things go for Israel. I'm trying to avoid Muslim nations, and I'm also trying to avoid nations with really, really close ties to the U.S. - we want independence and neutrality.

[miscsoc]

23. that was a newspaper article, the swedish government doesn't write the newspapers

n.t

[LakeSamish706]

6. Here we go again, another cover up by the Obama Administration....

With the remarks at the UN by the US, UN ambassador who would allow Israel and the US to do an independent investigation into the flotilla incident? Sorry, not me.

[aquart]

19. Don't be silly. Only Jews lie. Right?

You can absolutely count on every Arab to tell the exact truth because they have nothing to gain, nuh uh. And those "activists"? They have such a filter of bias a Jew couldn't pick a piece of litter off the street without being accused of a crime.

But, I misspeak. Of course you can believe them. They see the truth.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. You may believe that; there's no evidence anyone else here does...

Trying to caricature the views of someone you disagree with is one thing.

Simply making things with no relevance to what they have said up and pretending that they believe them when you know - and you do know - damn well that they don't is another.

[legin]

21. Decision taken to storm flotilla 26th, Rahm in Israel 22nd

decision by Nutty's inner cabinet.

The 26th date is a throwaway fact from the Daily Telegraph, so needs verification.

22nd date I got from here.

[legin]

22. Verifiction of 22nd date

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8393020

Obama gave a green light to the operation (possibly not to the deaths). (A guess)

[legin]

24. Some verification of 26th date

...

The forum - Netanyahu, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, Intelligence and Atomic Affairs Minister Dan Meridor, Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Ya'alon, Interior Minister Eli Yishai and Minster without Portfolio Benny Begin - held just two meetings on the flotilla, the latest on Wednesday. They approved the operation and the continuation of the Israeli policy of barring ships from docking in Gaza.

Much of the session was devoted not to the military operation but rather to media and public relations issues surrounding the issue. "The ministers who attended the meeting didn't get the impression from the defense establishment that a violent confrontation of this scope was likely," one senior Jerusalem official said. "The sense during the discussion was that the navy would come and the organizers would take fright, do an about-face and flee," he said.

...

Article dated Tuesday 1st May
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/top-ministers-fume-after-gaza-flotilla-operation-goes-ahead-without-their-approval-1.293414

[legin]

25. Some more verification of 26th date

(snip)

Israeli media have reported that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's inner cabinet, a group of seven top ministers, met May 26 to discuss how to counter the flotilla of humanitarian activists attempting to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

(snip)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704515704575282874154260444.html

[hulka38]

13. Disgusting but not surprising.

[classysassy]

14. When will justice prevail?

This is another reason we need financial reform in government.We need it bad and we need it now.This is not a democracy when money decides the outcome of an election,when powerful lobbies decide who will or will not serve our country there is something wrong,it is no longer a democracy.Why do we continue to let money rule instead of people?The supreme court has become a big joke controlled by wall street.If we continue down this awful patch,I dare say in twenty years the middle class will be gone with the wind.In order for us to have a just society we must rid ourselves of every lobbyist and poll taker in this country,news outlets that make false statements or just plain lies should be dealt with in a serious manner.Any member of congress convicted of breaking his or her oath of office,should be removed from office never allowed to run again.Those are some of the things we can do post haste and there are others that would follow if we want a just society.

[Arrowhead2k1]

16. Sounds fair. How about you let Iran inspect its own nuclear program while you're at it?

With Chinese observers?

[IndianaGreen]

17. Who will be the US observer? Dershowitz?

Israel is no friend of America.

[Hardrada]

26. Israel seems determined to have no friends

and in that way is very much like North Korea. Both impossible murderous nations.