In self-defense: Israel properly and lawfully resisted Gaza blockade runners

[Ian David]

In self-defense: Israel properly and lawfully resisted Gaza blockade runners

It cannot be said forcefully enough: Israel was fully within its rights to enforce the Gaza naval blockade, and, more than that, Israel was duty-bound to do so.

This, too, must be stressed without reservation: Israeli commandos acted in self-defense in killing nine supposed humanitarians on the Mavi Marmara after a mob attacked the soldiers with Molotov cocktails, guns, machetes and crowbars.

The boarding party, armed in the first instance with paintball guns, was clearly surprised by the violence it encountered on descending to the ferry deck under the authority of a legally recognized quarantine. Yet, the raiders and the country they defend are hauled before the court of world opinion as international thugs.

<snip>

Those who sponsored the so-called Freedom Flotilla knew from the get-go that reaching dock was out of the question. But getting supplies to Palestinians was never the actual point. Witness the fact that Israel and Egypt, which jointly sanction the blockade to prevent Hamas from importing arms, had each offered to off-load the goods and deliver them into Gaza after inspection.

The point instead was to portray Israel as the agent of Palestinian oppressions and to provoke Israeli action that could be twisted to indict the country as a brute state. As one flotilla participant told Al Jazeera TV, the goal was "one of two happy endings: either martyrdom or reaching Gaza."


More:
http://link.social.com/c/twitter/21829253/1275605050/b/cJMfYr/cQtsed

[ixion]

1. BS

'nuff said.

[sandnsea]

2. Israel knew from the get-go the Flotilla was coming

All they had to do was escort the aid to the docks, supervise and search the shipment, and have a happy ending with lots of warm fuzzies and good pr.

Instead they opened up on a bunch of peaceniks in the open sea. STUPID from any angle you want to look at it. NO excuse for it in this day and age.

[Riftaxe]

21. Which of course they offered to do,

Haven't you been following this story at all?

[sandnsea]

47. Not to Gaza they didn't n/t

[Riftaxe]

23. The "peaceniks" refused to pull into port and have

the cargo searched before the incident quite publicly. This is before Hamas prevented the aid on the ships to be provided to the Palestinian people after the incident of course

[county worker]

3. Bull shit!

For months I heard ads on KPFK for money and supplies for the flotilla. Everybody and their fucking uncle knew it was coming. It was a humanitarian effort to bring food and medical aid to people who are cut off from the world. It was no threat to Israel.

There is no defense for the suffering that Israel is inflicting on the people of Gaza.

[Mosby]

4. the link does not work for me

It's being reported today that 100 of the activists had almost one million euros in cash on them. The idf also found shell casings from an unknown weapon on the top deck of the turkish ship. Hmmm.

[BootinUp]

5. Martyrdom. And there you fucking have it.

I couldn't find the video where the guy said his goal was martyrdom. But it doesn't surprise me one of them would say that. I will look some more because that is worth finding.

[BootinUp]

6. Here we go

In footage apparently captured on board the Gaza-bound boat Mavi Marmara
and released by the IDF, passenger wishes
for death in confrontation with Israel troops

Haaretz

In its latest effort to win back world opinion after killing nine pro-Palestinians in a mid-ocean raid on Monday, the IDF has released a video of a Gaza-bound activist declaring his wish to become a shahid, or Muslim martyr.

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=75833

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/i-want-to-be-a-shahid-flotilla-activist-hoped-for-martyrdom-1.293953

[Tripmann]

8. I had a friend once that told me he wanted to kill himself

If I had done the job for him, I would still be a murderer.

[Fozzledick]

11. If he attacked a cop with a knife and got shot, it would be called "suicide by cop"

This ambush was planned as a "martyrdom operation" from the beginning.

[Tripmann]

17. Then why the aid?

If that ship was full of martyrs, how come theres only 9 dead?

You are a deeply sick person by the way

[Fozzledick]

24. Sticks and stones may break my bones

but childish insults from raving loonies just make me laugh! :rofl:

[Tripmann]

26. I'm not the looney excusing the murder of innocent people.

[Fozzledick]

31. Are too!

[Tripmann]

35. Fair enough, we'll add 'childish' to our opinion of you.

[Riftaxe]

28. For the same reason Hamas denied accepting the aid

the flotilla carried even after all the killing and injuries. Pure, unadulterated politics.

[Ignis]

38. You forgot to add, "...Unless the flotilla prisoners were released."

That was an accident, right? :shrug: I'll assume it was, rather than extravagantly dishonest cherry-picking.

[Igel]

45. I'll interlope.

How come there's only 9 dead?

Let's assume that some of the dead did have martyrdom as a viable career option. For the sake of argument.

That doesn't mean all of the people on the ship did. It doesn't mean all of the dead did. I could easily imagine having a hard-core contingent carry or produce some sort of weapon that could be dismissed as a non-weapon--knives, broken bottles, metal rods. Compared with assault rifles they're nothing, asymmetric warfare. I could also imagine a larger contingent, sympathetic but not in on the plan, or not even especially sympathetic to the idea of martyrdom.

I can imagine all sorts of things. I can imagine that the Islamic charity behind that particular boat made sure such a contingent was on board and that no real munitions will be found, just token amounts (or even that the token amounts were against the charity's wishes). It would be a great propaganda coup, after all--even if it didn't convince Westerners, whose to say that Frenchmen or even non-Westerners like Australians are the target audience?

I can imagine all sorts of things. The problem is I don't have enough facts, so imagination is pretty much all I have. I suspect that there was a hard-core group that did decide to attack the commandos. Beyond that, I don't bother with suspicions, at least for now.

[BootinUp]

12. Thats some fucked up analogy lol.

No this video indicates pretty clearly why the soldiers were forced to use deadly force.

You have a boat with 600 or so people and maybe 10 or more want to be martyrs, I would have picked a different boat.

[Tripmann]

20. Wheres the rest of the footage?

Theres one minute of footage from the whole operation......from the IDF. Will you contend that the cameras were only rolling at the exact moment the idf met resistance?

If the operation happened exactly as Israel said it did, wheres the footage? Why only the clips that were beamed off live?

Theres dozens of reports of Israel confiscating footage taken by the members of the flotilla and destroyed, why do this if it would cooberate the israeli version of events?

NOBODY IS BELIEVING THE BULLSHIT.

[BootinUp]

27. There were 2 videos I have seen

before this that the IDF released on the actual action on the large ship. One shows the commandos trying to board from a smaller craft and being sprayed with water and having objects thrown at them from a large number of people above. I assume that this was before the helicopter scene. It lasts 70 seconds.

The scene of the rapelling from the helicopter demostrates to me at least, that no live fire was used prior to that point or more people would have been taking cover instead of brazenly attacking armed soldiers. I don't remember how long it is.

I don't know why they haven't released more. I assume they prefer not to air the graphic stuff at this point. Or the filming may have been interrupted during the op when it was clear the tactics were going badly.

In any event, more will come out eventually, I wouldn't hold out hope that it makes the Israelis look any less stupider or any more bent on death and maiming than I have described.

[Tripmann]

33. They could have sent the entire IDF footage confirming their story to news organisations

who would then have edited unsuitable for viewing portions.

They didn't.

Thinking people know why.

[Riftaxe]

30. I highly suspect on the next interception

The IDF will not be wielding paint ball guns {presumably with pepper ball rounds) and only personal side arms.

[BootinUp]

51. Are you thinking that is the smarter thing to do?

[Riftaxe]

52. Actually yes, i don't condone violence

by any stretch. But i think it will be necessary. Forgot the partisans for a moment, reality says there are 2 seriously injured people, one from being thrown from 30 feet to a steel deck, and those are only the IDF causalities.


The injuries from the activists are more severe, and neither should have been required to take place, the first 5 ships i believe had very sincere people on them.

[RC]

7. Look at this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8479330

[Tripmann]

9. Oooh, an opinion piece

That settles it

:rofl:

[Yeahyeah]

10. Now they had Molotov cocktails, guns, machetes and crowbars?

[mainer]

54. OP left out the poison gas and nuclear weapons.

Didn't you know about those too?

[Chulanowa]

13. The op-ed is dead wrong, due to one crucial flaw

The boats were in international waters. Once they entered the blockade zone, in Israeli waters, 77 miles away, then Israel would be within its rights.

Since they were in international waters and - to the best of my knowledge, the flag nations never granted permission to board the ships, Israel is the criminal here.

[ixion]

16. They would be within their rights to detain the flotilla, not attack it

The flotilla posed no threat to their security.

[Chulanowa]

19. Sort of

They have a right to keep patrol around it. But so long as it's in international waters, the boats are 100% free to navigate as they please. They cannot be detained, they cannot be boarded without authorization from the ships or their flag nations, and they are permitted to respond with force against those who try such illegal acts.

This is why not a single one of these people is going to be charged with anything.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. CLOS allow for interception outside of the blockage zone if the vessel intends to run the blockade

Its sort of surprising. Read the numerous writeups defending the legality of the IDF action.

[Chulanowa]

48. But not in international waters

Read the numerous writeups attacking the legality of the IDF actions.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. Actually it does

And I have read a number of them on both sides. Was quite surprised. It only applies to declared blockade runners.

[Chulanowa]

50. I have as well

And you're not a blockade runner until you actually start running the blockade. Until you make the decision to not stop, you're just a boat on the water.

Do you really want to keep playing this ridiculous game until I whittle you down to your basic premise that Israel is always in the right? Or do you want to just go ahead and admit it and we can save ourselves a nice bit of time?

[Unvanguard]

14. If that was the point, then Israel fell right into the trap, didn't it?

Not very smart. Maybe it's time for a new strategy.

[backscatter712]

15. The hasbara-bots are back. They have their talking points for the day!

It's like the freeper trolls - they come and go. They take a pause to get the day's talking points from Karl Rove's smear machine, then they spam everywhere they can all at once.

Except in this case, they pause to get their talking points from Bibi's smear machine.

[whosinpower]

18. If the point was to portray Israel as a brutal state

Israeli commando's happily obliged.

This is a PR disaster for Israel. It does not matter if the participants wanted martyrdom. What matters is that Israel knew they were coming, had plenty of time to plan, knew their intentions of breaking the legitimacy of the blockade - they knew all this....and yet utterly failed to come up with a solution that would be seen, by the world in a positive light.

Instead, so blinded by their self righteousness and their arrogence, they attacked the flotilla under the cover of darkness, masked commando's descend upon the activists with guns blaring, and concussion grenades flying. 10 people are dead - 3 of which were killed execution style - shots to the head.

Israeli leadership fails its people. This is not the fault of Hamas, as much as Netanyahu would love to claim. This mess sits directly at his feet.

[hayu_lol]

29. Unfortunately, the actions of HAMAS in rejecting the...

'critical and necessary' aid at the borders of GAZA shows that martyrdom is more important than help for the Palestinians.

Note that 'these things' are NEVER the fault of HAMAS.

Two solutions: One would be to accept all the Palestinians for relocation in western Utah or Oklahoma. Two would be to accept all Israelis for resettlement in the US.

During the early days of WWII, a shipload of Jewish refugees arrived at the Port Of New York. A thorough check of their papers showed that almost none of the refugees had letters that they were 'good' citizens of the German towns they were escaping from. As a result, the ship was turned around and sent back to Europe where most of the refugees ended up in the ovens of Germany.

No other western country would accept these people either. That is why Israel was formed in the first place. Since being formed, Israel has been under attack constantly by other powers in the region.

Note that no other Arab country, save Jordan, has ever volunteered to take in the Palestinians in reasonable numbers for resettlement--they don't want these crazies either.

[county worker]

39. Three, they could live together in peace in one state, but hate on both sides prevents that.

Pointing out the suffering of the Jews is the right thing to do in my estimation until 1946. I was born in 1946 and to this day I cannot accept the right of the Israelis to put the Palestinians off their land, and so I don't accept the premise that Israel acts in accordance with the law, not humanitarian law.

[whosinpower]

40. Hamas is evil

But the fiasco that was the flotilla attack - that was not Hamas...that was Israel.

If Israel had been smart, it would of stopped the flotilla in the light of day, with all the camera crews recording, it would of inspected the ships and escorted them into Gaza to be offloaded if no weapons were found. This WEAKENS Hamas and shows Israeli flexibility and level headedness to an international humanitarian mission.

Fighting hatred with guns will not give peace - it will only deepen the hatred. Marginalizing Hamas from the palistinian populace is the key - and that cannot be accomplished with the current policies of the Likud Party.

Your solutions are not solutions at all.

[LakeSamish706]

41. I agree totally.. Hamas is probably the worst thing that could have happened

to the Palestinians, but Israel has gone way overboard this time.

[Ignis]

44. +1. How media tone-deaf do you have to be to ...

...attack an aid ship during dawn prayers, and to start with grenades instead of loudspeakers?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Riftaxe]

36. If they don't need 20% of it, then they don't need the

other 80% right?

This is pure politics, Hamas is more then happy to take payment in political payments much more then they would have made selling the "aid" to the Palestinian people.

[WeDidIt]

25. BULLSHIT

Israel is a rogue terrorist nation.

[Ignis]

32. ONE religious fanatic speaks for the whole flotilla now?

:rofl:

This is the same sort of bullshit that Fox News pulls when they find the craziest LaRouchite (or similar) at an anti-war protest, interviews that ONE person, and then presents that opinion as the voice of the movement.

If you can't smell the propaganda, you're just holding your nose. :thumbsdown:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. Actually it was the UN CLOS that allowed it

Was sort of surprising, but its black letter. Surprised me when I read up on it.

[backscatter712]

37. The Holocaust was "lawful". Slavery and Jim Crow was "lawful".

Just because they're print in law books saying it's A-OK doesn't make it right.

That's the point behind civil disobedience.

No matter what their law books say, the Israeli acts of murder and violence are completely morally reprehensible. That you're defending this shit makes me have absolutely no respect for you, Ian David.

[IndianaGreen]

53. Racists are all alike, whether it is a Southern segregationist, an Afrikaaner,

a nazi, a klansman, or a zionist.

[mysuzuki2]

46. then you would also agree that

the British were fully justified in enforcing the blockade in the late 1940s against ships who ACTUALLY WERE bring weapons into Palestine?