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Israel, U.S. agree on nature of Gaza flotilla probe

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 09:24 PM
Original message
Israel, U.S. agree on nature of Gaza flotilla probe
Final decision held up for four days by the Americans, who were dissatisfied with the original proposal for the investigative committee's composition.

Israel and the United States agreed Thursday on the nature of the Israeli investigative committee that will look into the events surrounding the takeover of the Gaza-bound aid flotilla nearly two weeks ago.

An official announcement on the committee is due to be made Friday, though the declaration could be deferred to Saturday night. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is expected to make the announcement; he will also say who will be on the committee and discuss its powers.

Channel 2 reported last night that the committee will be headed by a retired Supreme Court justice. It appears that the Prime Minister's Office has approached former Justice Yaakov Tirkel to fill the position.

Contacts with the United States on forming the panel have been handled by the prime minister himself and Defense Minister Ehud Barak. Their main contact has been U.S. Vice President Joe Biden. It was the Americans who proposed the nature of the committee - similar to the one that investigated the sinking of a South Korean ship by the North Koreans.

The forum of seven senior ministers has met to discuss the matter, but the final decision was held up until a formula was reached that was acceptable to the Americans. There have been four days of discussions with the Americans on the subject following their dissatisfaction over the nature of the committee as initially proposed and its composition.

It appears that it was the Americans who insisted that the committee be headed by a retired Supreme Court justice to give the panel greater credibility.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-u-s-agree-on-nature-of-gaza-flotilla-probe-1.295485
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. The only thing that would give the probe credibility
Is that an outside agency...neither Israeli or US...do it.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Another Goldstone fiasco would do no good
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Get the UN to do it.
And if it turns into another Goldstone report, it will at least be honest.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. It would be another epic fail...like Goldstone
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. So, instead,
The Israelis do it and it's an epic fail.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Why would you trust the UN to do anything fairly WRT Israel? 155 of 192 nations just voted Libya
...onto the UN Human Rights Commission.

How fair do you expect the UN to be with that in mind?
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Much fairer than Israel,
which has been attempting to destroy Palestine for sixty years....and has been pumping out propaganda for longer. Trusting Israel to investigate itself is insane.
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ave Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. That is more or less what was proposed by the UN and what Turkey agreed to.
This was the statement of Turkey's MFA in a press release of June 14, 2010:

No: 132, 14 June 2010, Press Release Regarding the Investigation Commission of Israeli Raid Against the Freedom Flotilla

Israel’s declaration that it will establish a commission, composed of Israeli citizens and two foreign observers, in order to investigate the Israeli raid against the Freedom Flotilla does not in any way meet Turkey’s clear demand or international community’s expectations, which were expressed in the Presidential Statement of the United Nations Security Council.

Israel does not have the authority to assign a national commission to investigate a crime perpetrated in international waters. An inquiry to be conducted by such a commission cannot be impartial, fair, transparent and credible.

Turkey has indeed already agreed to the proposal by the UN Secretary General to establish an international commission to be composed of one Turkish, one Israeli and three international experts. We strongly condemn Israel’s disregard of this proposal to date.

We expect that the international community, especially the United States, which lost a citizen of her own, support this constructive proposal by the UN Secretary General and take action in that direction without delay.


http://www.mfa.gov.tr/no_-132_-14-june-2010_-press-release-regarding-the-investigation-commission-of-israeli-raid-against-the-freedom-flotilla.en.mfa
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-10-10 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh good, they have agreed on a clumsy cover-up.
Rumour has it that members of the Warren Commission have been summoned to present their "Magic Paintball Theory".
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. UN must investigate Turkey
UN must investigate Turkey
Turkey appears to be involved in criminal activities in respect to Gaza flotilla
Zvi Mazel
Published: 06.05.10, 14:01 / Israel Opinion

The so-called “peace flotilla“ episode raises many questions, and most of them have to do with the role of Turkey. After all Israel behaved from beginning to end with the utmost transparency. But nobody knows exactly what went on in Turkey – how the operation was planned and what part the Turkish government played in its implementation.

more...
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3899271,00.html
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Why bother quoting from Israeli news opinions? This won't
change the facts in this case or change any minds as to who is responsible for the deaths on the Ship delivering humanitarian aid.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. "After all Israel behaved from beginning to end with the utmost transparency"
Edited on Fri Jun-11-10 12:17 PM by Jefferson23
Hilarious declaration.

On edit to add: Investigations in the air


The ministers in the "Forum of Seven" are working night and day to prevent a skilled, credible investigation that would seriously examine a question of public importance: the quality of defense and political preparations before the Turkish flotilla to Gaza and during the takeover of its ships.

Haaretz Editorial

The ministers in the "Forum of Seven" are working night and day to prevent a skilled, credible investigation that would seriously examine a question of public importance: the quality of defense and political preparations before the Turkish flotilla to Gaza and during the takeover of its ships.

Sufficient preparation concerns the performance and responsibility of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak, of the foreign and information ministers, of the Forum and the security cabinet, as well as the chairman of the National Security Council - Uzi Arad - charged by law with "overseeing the cabinet's administration" on matters of foreign and defense policy. This is in addition to the chief of staff's responsibility for the military's performance in preparing for and conducting the operation.

Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi appointed an internal investigative team for the flotilla affair, headed by retired general Giora Eiland, the former head of the IDF's Planning Branch and head of the National Security Council. The IDF's team of experts is designed to exude credibility by detaching its members from current military service. However, one member, Brigadier General Aviv Kochavi, is an officer in active service who until recently headed the Operations Branch of the General Staff. Kochavi is waiting for a promotion to a senior position and the rank of major general. This constitutes a conflict of interests between his role as a member of the investigative team and his own personal and professional interests. This should be enough to disqualify him from a team of experts about to investigate the chief of staff.

Politicians are evading a real investigation that would also examine its own performance. The delay in deciding the substance and composition of the entity to handle the investigation is related to hopes the investigation will be acceptable to the U.S. administration. This, however, is a feeble and unacceptable excuse. The investigation is designed first and foremost to examine any hitches during the decision-making process and in the military preparations before the flotilla, and reach conclusions regarding future procedures - and not to serve as a propaganda machine to mollify the U.S.

The proposed "investigations," chiefly the international experts' seminar on maritime law, are appropriate for an academic conference and appear empty of real content. The Forum of Seven is mostly busy preventing the possibility that Netanyahu and Barak be held responsible - responsibility that could force a state commission of inquiry, the most appropriate body to investigate the operation.

Supreme Court President Dorit Beinisch would appoint her colleagues, which would grant the commission credibility. Such a commission would carry greater public and international weight than a government committee appointed and authorized by the cabinet. A state commission of inquiry enjoys investigative powers determined by law, which also requires it be headed by a senior judge.

The professional character of a state commission of inquiry, the depth of its investigation and its objectivity, would ensure a thorough and credible examination of troublesome questions regarding the decisions prior to boarding the Turkish flotilla last week. The government's responsibility to the public requires that it appoint a state commission of inquiry. Any further delay or the choice of an investigation that is fabricated, not serious or substantial, will do even greater damage than that already caused by the affair.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/investigations-in-the-air-1.295526
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I'm for an investigation into Israel's role. Are you for an investigation into Turkey's role?
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Tripmann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Are you into an international investigation of Israels role, or an israel investigation?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. As long as it's a fair, equal investigation into the roles of both Turkey and Israel
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Are you for a probe into both Israel, Turkey's role? As well as the FGM, Hamas...?
Full, complete probe.

For or against?
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Tripmann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-11-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'm all for an international probe of any parties involved in the incident
Are you?
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Didn't I just say that in #9? Sure, and it should be fair/impartial.
Investigate Turkey, Israel, the IHH, the FGM and everything related to this incident. Leave no stone unturned.

Now my question to you.

If there's a UN investigation only into Israel, will that bother you?
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Tripmann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Yes, because the incident is being investigated not a country.
And who would you like to see conduct the investigation?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-12-10 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Nonsense. The IDF killed nine people and all their whining and spinning
doesn't change that except to make them look disgusting to the rest of the world for trying to blame the dead and for mocking them.

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ave Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. Report: US upset over 'geriatric' flotilla panel
From Ma'an News:

Report: US upset over 'geriatric' flotilla panel

Published yesterday (updated) 23/06/2010 12:51

Bethlehem – Ma’an – High-ranking US officials have reportedly expressed resentment and disappointment over the “laughable” probe appointed to investigate Israel's deadly attack on a Turkish aid ship which was part of the Gaza-bound Freedom Flotilla earlier this month.

According to the Hebrew-language Israeli daily Maariv, the US was angered that the Israeli government appointed 75-year-old retired justice Yaakov Tirkel to head the panel. The other two panel members are aged 93 and 89. Israeli media outlets played up the age factor by publishing photographs of 93-year-old Shabbtai Rozen, a member of the inquiry, in his summer pajamas along with his Filipino caretaker.

“We woke up in the morning to see pictures of panel member Shabbtai Rozen in his summer pajamas. That was very disappointing and awful because this way we can’t build mutual trust. We feel that you tricked us as we agreed that you appoint a serious committee rather than a committee to discuss geriatrics,” unnamed US officials told Israeli leaders, according to Maariv.

Also on the investigation team is 86-year-old Amos Horev, a retired Israeli general

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=293915

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