Why is Israel still in the "occupied" territories?

[leanings]

Legitimate question, derived from a class discussion. Is it because of security concerns or because the majority of the Israeli population believe they have a God-given right to the land? Any polling data, gov statements or other cites would be appreciated.

[madrchsod]

1. because god gave them

all this land in the bible. no one else has the right to live there. this is why the sharonists claim it`s the right of the israeli people to live behind the wall he is building and exclude all others. the way to live in peace with your neighbors is to wall yourself in..makes perfect logic to me.that way you don`t have to resolve your problems with your neighbors because since you can`t see them -they don`t exist....

[leanings]

2. Does the majority of the population agree?

And has this been the argument behind the occupation for the last 30 years?

[tinnypriv]

3. Well, first off

A majority of the Jewish population of Israel doesn't consider the territories occupied.

No Israeli government has officially defined the territories as occupied.

For a fun game, try checking maps on sites ending in co.il. You won't see any Green Line, and usually you'll find the Golan Heights are included as well. Same goes for Israeli weather on television, and the Hebrew newspapers.

[vierundzwanzig]

4. Don't you know?

G-d is in the real-estate business.

[JohnLocke]

5. God doesn't take sides

I think God just wants people to stop killing each other.

[Suzette]

6. Most Israeli's aren't even religious!

In 1920, the British obtained Israel from the defeated Turks, acting as trustees under the League of Nations Mandate. In 1934, 36,000 Syrians were admitted without passports. Secret British documents recently declassified acknowledge masses of Arabs were illegally imported. Yet the White Paper of 1939 severely restricted the immigration of Jews because "the land couldn't absorb them" From 1924 to 1947, the British secretly brought in 440,000 Arabs from Jordan, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon, Iraq and Arabia in trains, trucks and on foot to ensure an Arab Majority when the Mandate expires. According to the CIA, the British Secret Services smuggled in terrorists, weapons, and agent provocateurs to incite and murder Jews in an attempt to destabilize, discredit and discourage the Zionist establishment...During the Holocaust, the British army in Israel fired on ships bringing Jews form Europe, and set them back to the Nazi inferno. At the same time the British secretly smuggled in 200,000 Arabs. The land cleared by pioneers for their brethren in Europe was stolen by these illegal Arab "immigrants." Of the 1,303,000 Arabs living in Israel West Bank and Gaza in 1947, a total of 1,000,000 were either illegally brought in or born to those brought in, after the start of Zionist development in 1882. And the majority of the remaining 300,000 were descendants of the Arabs who had been settled by the Turks. In 1948, the UN classified as "refugees" Arabs who had lived in Israel for two years. Arabs came to Israel either to make a buck or as part of British policy to stop the establishment of the Jewish state. They were not an indigenous population!

[Darranar]

7. Source?

Link?

[Suzette]

8. Arab Higher Committee, page 7

Diary of Major General Erwin LaHousen, of German Abwehr, September 3, 1941:

". . . Mufti ... is currently in connection with Abwehr II "; June 2, 1942: ". . . utilization of the connections with the Grand Mufti for the purpose of Abwehr "... to demonstrate the solidarity of the Axis powers"; July 13, 1942: "I took part in discussion" with the Mufti and Hitler's representative-"chief of the Abwehr" Canaris concerning "Arabian Freedom Movement ... .. The Mufti made an offer ... that followers of the ... movement led by him, as well as the followers of former Iraq Prime Minister, Kailani were to be used for purposes of sabotage and sedition in the Near East in accordance with purposes of the Abwehr Il." Secret Diary, cited in The Arab Higher Committee. Among many documents included are photocopies of originals and translations of Hitler's "secret pledges to the Mufti for Revolt against British"; of Italy's "promise" to the Mufti to "aid in revolt against British"; "of Mufti's handwritten diary entries recording Hitler's "words of the Fuehrer on Nov. 21, 1941, Berlin, Friday from 4:30 P.m. till a few minutes after 6." The following is an extract of the November 1941 meeting between Hitler and the Mufti, with the Mufti quoting Hitler: ". . . It is clear that the Jews have accomplished nothing in Palestine and their claims are lies. All the accomplishments in Palestine are due to the Arabs and not to the Jews. I am resolved to find a solution for the Jewish problem, progressing step by step without cessation." In reply to the Mufti's demand for an "Axis declaration to the Arabs," Hitler assured that, "Only if we win the war will the hour of deliverance also be the hour of fulfillment of Arab aspirations.... If the declaration is issued now, difficulties will arise .... Now I am going to tell you something I would like you to keep secret. First, I will ... fight until the complete destruction of the Judeo-Bolshevik rule has been accomplished. Second ... we will reach the Southern Caucasus. Third, then I would like to issue a declaration; for then the hour of liberation of the Arabs will have arrived. Germany has no ambitions in this area but cares only to annihilate the power which produces the Jews. Fourth, I am happy that you have escaped and that you are now with the Axis powers ... You will be the man to direct the Arab force. ... I understand the Arab desire for this (declaration-Ed.) but his Excellency the Mufti must understand that only five years after I became President of the German Government and Fuehrer of the German people, was I able to get such a declaration (the Austrian Union-Ed.) ... you can rely on my word. "We were troubled about you. I know your life history ... I am happy that you are with us now ... to add your strength to the common cause." The full text of Mufti's diary entries paraphrasing Hitler are found in Arab Higher Committee

[Darranar]

9. What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

Namely, your claim that the majority of the Arab inhabitants in 1948 were immigrants.

[The Magistrate]

10. It Has Nothing To Do With It, Sir

Indeed, the farrago comprising No. 6 above is so over the top that it is impossible to know where to begin in dealing with it. One bit that sticks in the mind is the claim that of the roughly thirteen hundred thousand Arabs, over a million had been brought in illegally since 1882. Leaving aside curiousity over what constituted illegal entry under the Ottoman, who ruled for the first thirty-five of those years, this figure is tantamount to claiming there was no natural increase in population whatever in those districts during a span of sixty-five years, as the Arab populace in 1882 was on the order of three hundred thousands or so. Such a proposition is nonesense, absent, say, some repeated outbreaks of plague and famine, which tend to discourage immigration. At the start of the Mandate, the total population of the area was about eight hundred thousands, and that after a war that saw much death by privation and misrule. Improved measures of public health and sanitation carried out by the Mandatory authorities greatly increased average life span and reduced infant mortality, while a relatively thriving economy reduced malnutrition. These things certainly fostered a great natural increase in population, more than sufficient to relieve the "special service" of onerous smuggling chores. There was never not an Arab majority, nor during the Mandate any danger there would not be one.

[tinnypriv]

13. The real source

i.e. the webpage you stole this from.

[Lithos]

12. These claims were debunked by Finkelstein

This was the core of his criticism of Peters' _From Time Immemorial_

[number6]

11. funny, dark humor...

LOL :evilgrin:

[Lithos]

14. And Locking

Per I/P Guidelines - not based on a recent news or op-ed article.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground