Outcry over EU man's 'antisemitic' remarks

[shira]

The president of the European Jewish Congress has demanded an apology from a senior EU politician after he suggested that the Middle East peace talks would fail because of “the Jewish lobby”. Moshe Kantor called trade commissioner Karel De Gucht’s remarks antisemitic and said they should concern “everyone who seeks a more tolerant Europe”. Mr De Gucht had told a Belgian radio station that he saw “few reasons to think that there is this time more reason for success.”

He said: “Do not underestimate the Jewish lobby on Capitol Hill…on American policy, whether on Republicans or Democrats. “It is the best organised lobby there. He also said that there was “a belief among most Jews, religious and secular alike, that they are right. "And belief is something difficult to fight with rational arguments. "It is therefore not easy, even when you have a conversation with a moderate Jew, to speak about what is happening in the Middle East."

more...
http://thejc.com/news/world-news/37568/outcry-over-eu-mans-antisemitic-remarks

It was Finland's head of Amnesty International last week calling Israel a scum state - in which no action has been taken against him by the Secretary General - and now this.

Jew hatred is becoming fashionable once again - especially at the highest levels. And one lesson from history is that this hate only begins with the Jews - it never ends with them.

[IndianaGreen]

1. Perhaps he should have used 'Israel Lobby' rather than 'Jewish Lobby'

It would have been more accurate.

OTOH, in Israel, Israelis and Palestinians refer to each other as "Arabs and Jews."

Only in DU would this create a controversy.

BTW, peace talks (or rather Bibi texting Abbas every two weeks) are nothing but a dog an pony show. We all know they are for public consumption in the West, particularly for the gullible Americans.

2-state solution is deader than Reagan.

Let's work for a fully democratic 1-state, which we already have thanks to the settlers, in which Arab and Jew (to use the language used in Israel) would enjoy the same full rights of citizenship.

[LeftishBrit]

3. Peace talks MIGHT achieve something...

or why is Ahmadinejad so worried about them? And obviously Rabbi Yosef? And why did Hamas members choose to murder people just before the talks - if not in a desperate wish to sabotage them, at the cost of civilians' lives?

And a one-state solution with equal rights for all citizens might be nice, but it won't happen any time soon.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Aren't you tired of drinking that Kool-Aid?

If you were an American I would be using the metaphor of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown to kick, only to pull it away at the last second, making poor Charlie fall flat on his back. That's what the 2-state kabuki has been all along, a farce and a sham that allows Israel to create new facts on the grounds.

I am done with the Kool-Aid. One-state solution is the one reality on the ground. Let's work for full civil rights for the Arab citizens of the Greater Israel!

[proteus_lives]

7. So what you want is endless conflict.

Because that's all a one-state solution is.

Or you could just say what we all know you're really thinking.

[oberliner]

8. Work to impose a solution that the majority of Palestinians don't want?

From a recent (March 2010) poll of Palestinians:

Q: Some people think that the best solution to the conflict is one in which Israel is unified with the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to establish one state whereby Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews would be equal. Do you support or oppose this solution?

Support/Definitely Support: 28.8%
Oppose/Definitely Oppose: 69.1%

[shira]

9. It's the anti-zionist colonialist mentality....they know better than the brown people there. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

2. Not the first time that De Gucht has been involved in controversy

He's an undiplomatic diplomat, who has clashed with just about everyone, from other members of his own political party, to leaders in the Congo (of whom he made accurate but undiplomatic criticisms in his official capacity in 2004). He has also been in some trouble for questionable financial dealings.

Jew hatred is not becoming fashionable 'once again'; it has always existed in Europe - even after the worst times ended - and doubtless everywhere. And rightly, negative remarks about Jews attract criticism and publicity. But if there is one form of bigotry that is becoming particularly fashionable and dangerous in Europe right now, it is Roma-hatred. And yes, I realize that it's not a competition, and that all forms of bigotry and prejudice are evil, tend to go together and reinforce each other, and need to be fought.

[shaayecanaan]

5. My litmus test...

flip the words around:-

“a belief among most Jews, religious and secular alike, that they are right"

vs

"a belief amongst most Palestinians, religious and secular alike, that they are right"

I must admit I can't get excited over either version. Moreover, I believe that both of the above statements are substantially accurate. Most of the posters here who self-identify as Jewish believe that they are in the right, essentially as an article of faith. It is the same with most Palestinians, and indeed most Serbs and Croats, Irish Catholics and Protestants, etc etc.

"Do not underestimate the Jewish lobby on Capitol Hill…on American policy, whether on Republicans or Democrats. It is the best organised lobby there."

Apparently most members of Congress agree with him. AIPAC, along with the American Association of Retired Persons and the NRA was consistently voted one of the most powerful lobby groups in the US in Fortune's annual survey.

[oberliner]

6. How about this one?

"It is therefore not easy, even when you have a conversation with a moderate Arab, to speak about what is happening in the Middle East."

I think that is a ridiculously insulting statement, just as I think the original statement is similarly so.

Also, the quote wasn't: "Do not underestimate AIPAC"
But rather: "Do not underestimate the Jewish lobby"

[shaayecanaan]

10. I don't think that a remark like that would attract a lot of controversy...

and moreover, while I might not agree with the statement I accept that it is one that could be held by a reasonable person.

And I wouldnt underestimate either AIPAC or the Israel/Jewish lobby in general (I don't think calling it the "Jewish" lobby makes it more sinister, any more than calling a lobby the "Arab" lobby rather than the Palestinian lobby has that effect). The Israel lobby in the US is highly effective, and its not going to surrender any of its efficacy simply because Arabs and people on the left complain about it.

My impression is that perceptions of anti-Semitism seem to be much more of a hair-trigger affair than perceptions of animus against Muslims. Consider the following remarks from Shimon Peres:-

Shimon Peres: Our next big problem is England. There are several million Muslim voters. And for many members of parliament, that’s the difference between getting elected and not getting elected. And in England there has always been something deeply pro-Arab, of course, not among all Englishmen, and anti-Israeli, in the establishment.

His remarks were probably just as contentious as the Dutch politician's - but I can't recall anyone levelling accusations against Peres that his remarks were anti-Arab.

[Recursion]

11. But it *isn't* easy

I have friends in Israel, the territories, and Jordan, all of them "moderate" in the sense that that is usually meant, and it's very difficult to talk with any of them about what is happening in the middle east. It's like the "rationality" switch gets shut off. I never bring it up because a 20-minute rant over a spotty Skype connection is irritating, but I don't have to bring it up because they do. Over and over again.

[oberliner]

12. His comment was about Jews, not Israelis

Here is the quote:

"It is therefore not easy, even when you have a conversation with a moderate Jew, to speak about what is happening in the Middle East."

Nothing about Israelis.

[Recursion]

13. And my comment was about Palestinians, not residents of the territories NT

[oberliner]

14. You suggested that it was difficult to talk to Israelis about the confict

His comment however wasn't about talking to Israelis about the conflict, but rather talking to Jews about the conflict.

Would you agree with the statement that it is not easy to talk to even a moderate Jew about the conflict?

Is one only able to discuss the conflict easily with non-Jews?

[Recursion]

15. I've had better luck with American Jewish people

Though not people who have done an aaliyah.

[shaayecanaan]

16. To be honest, I've found quite the opposite...

Jewish Israelis, whatever their opinions of Arabs, have opinions that are usually grounded in reality, whereas American Jews are unhindered by any pragmatic considerations since at the end of the day it not their arse that is on the line, nor will it ever be their arse that is sent out into the territories to defend a few settlers from their Arab neighbours.

There are probably other issues at play as well. I suppose an upper-middle-class white suburban American kid of professional parents is always going to have a soft spot for heroic soldiers in fatigues and fighter jets doing battle with the Arabs in the middle East. Similar manliness issues probably explain the penchant white male youth have for hip-hop music.

I suspect for many of these people their histrionic rhetoric is an attempt at compensating (or overcompensating) for some of these issues.