Israeli PM offers conditional settlements freeze

[Tripmann]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians;_ylt=Am_4ll3TaQ3TGjJJJWEu4kcDwLAF;_ylu=X3oDMTJ2NWo0NmE3BGFzc2V0Ay9zL2FwL21sX2lzcmFlbF9wYWxlc3RpbmlhbnMEY2NvZGUDcHphZ2UEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDaXNyYWVsaXBtb2Zm


JERUSALEM – Israel's prime minister on Monday offered to extend a moratorium on Jewish settlement construction in the West Bank, but only if the Palestinians meet his demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

-snip-

In a policy speech to parliament, Netanyahu said he would renew the settlement curbs if the Palestinians recognize the Jewish connection to Israel.

"If the Palestinian leadership would say unequivocally to its people that it recognizes Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people, I will be willing to convene my government and ask for an additional suspension," he said in a speech that was repeatedly heckled by Arab lawmakers.

Netanyahu has repeatedly made similar demands in the past, though he has never explicitly linked it to the settlement issue. On Sunday, Netanyahu's Cabinet passed a bill that would require non-Jewish immigrants to pledge allegiance to the "Jewish and democratic" state of Israel in order to receive citizenship.

The Palestinians refuse to accept Israel as a Jewish state, saying it discriminates against Israel's Arab minority and violates the rights of millions of Palestinian refugees scattered around the world. Instead, they say it is sufficient that they recognize Israel's right to exist.


The peace process has been dragged into the realms of bad pantomime. As if the PAs opinion on israels identity is going to make a blind bit of difference to the policy direction of the RW coalition of nethenyahu

[Ozymanithrax]

1. So does recognizing an Islamic state discriminate against people of other religions who live there?

If so, do the Palestinians feel that every Islamic state/Republic/Kingdom is discriminatory against non-islamic peoples?

[azurnoir]

2. Are the Palestinians asking to recognized as an Islamic state?

What does how oother countries identify themselves have to do with this? If Israel wants to identify it self as the Jewish state then it is free to so.

[oberliner]

3. Israel is free to identify itself as the Jewish state?

I thought you were opposed to that.

[azurnoir]

5. No I am opposed to a loyalty oath that targets minorities n/t

[oberliner]

7. So if it's no big deal for Israel to define itself as a Jewish state why the objection?

If the Palestinians don't care how Israel defines itself, why not just agree to recognize it as such and move on.

[shira]

12. The Geneva Accord...

1. Mutual recognition:
As part of the accord, the Palestinians recognize the right of the Jewish people to their own state and recognize the State of Israel as their national home. Conversely, the Israelis recognize the Palestinian state as the national home of the Palestinian people.

http://www.geneva-accord.org/mainmenu/summary

[azurnoir]

13. Because the PLO has already recognized Israel

why is it that suddenly that recognition needs "spectacles"

[oberliner]

16. If it doesn't matter - it doesn't matter

So it matters to Israel - the Palestinian side can call the bluff and say ok if they don't really care how Israel defines itself.

[shira]

18. Those here against recognizing Israel as the homeland for Jews tend to be for full RoR.

Which means an end to the Jewish state.

The Geneva Accords includes recognition of Israel as the homeland for Jews and the more liberal Palestinians like Ray Hanania and Sari Nusseibeh are also fine with it...
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/MHII-6BL7HY?OpenDocument

Those against tend to be far Rightwing extremists like the PLO, Hamas, etc... and their useful idiot contingent.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Exactly. And it's utterly ridiculous to demand the Palestinians define what sort of state Israel is.

As you've said, the PLO has already recognised Israel. What sort of state Israel wants to define itself as is up to Israel, but to demand that the people it occupies must formally agree with that definition is stupid and the demand of a government that isn't interested in a peaceful resolution to the conflict that's fair to both Israelis and Palestinians...

[Ozymanithrax]

4. They make a bald statement, I just would like to know if they think only Israel...

is prone to that discrimination. They are supported by quite a few Islamic Republics and and Islamic kingdom or two. If they do not condemn Iran for being an Islamic Republic, that kills gays, Bahais, Zoroastrians, Jews and treats other religious groups as lesser citizens, why should it matter if they recognize Israel as a Jewish State?

Yes, politically it would be tough on Palestinians to tell Iran and Saudi Arabia that they are vicious religious bigots or tell the British that having a queen who is head of the faithful results in the government being intolerant and to subjugate members of other faiths.

But if it is only being a Jewish state that does then, then that is something else.

[azurnoir]

6. What does any of the flotsam you thrown here have to with

a Palestinian State?

[Ozymanithrax]

8. Why would recognizing Israel as a Jewish be a problem for Palastinians?

They have no problem recognizing other states as religious states.

[azurnoir]

9. Who has the PA or PLO officially recognized as an Islamic state?

in those exact terms especially when Islamic is added as an after thought and on that thought what states has Israel officially recognized as Islamic under the same circumstances?

[Ozymanithrax]

10. They deal on a daily bases with Islamic States.

You haven't answered my question. What is the difference between the a Jewish State of Israel and an Islamic Republic of Iran or the Islamic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The Palestinians said:

The Palestinians refuse to accept Israel as a Jewish state, saying it discriminates against Israel's Arab minority and violates the rights of millions of Palestinian refugees scattered around the world.

In what way does it violate the rights of Palestinians that Israel would be considered a Jewish State more than Palestinians rights have been violated in refugee camps in Islamic states of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, the Gulf states, and elsewhere. What is their reason for refusing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

Actually, it has a simple answer. This is about the "Right of Return." If they recognize Israel as Jewish State they clearly feel that jeopardizes Palestinian refugees rights to return to the land and claim it as their own. A Jewish states implicitly says something about the nation. But the very fact that they turn a blind eye to Islamic nations trampling of Palestinian rights says something about their refusal, that is isn't Palestinian rights that they care about, but ownership of the ground.

[azurnoir]

11. Nice dodge but it doesn't fly very far as the Palestinians deal with Israel

on a daily basis also, there is too the "overlooked" fact that the PLO ostensibly recognized Israel over a decade ago and up until now that was good enough and the basis for talks

[Crunchy Frog]

23. "What is the difference between the a Jewish State of Israel and an Islamic Republic of Iran ..."

My feelings exactly!

[shira]

25. Seriously? Okay, here's a main difference...

In 1995, Yonathan Danilowitz, won a Supreme Court case against his employer, the national airline El Al, which initially refused to acknowledge Danilowitz's same-sex partner (since 1979) as his common-law spouse when it came to their policy of granting an annual free ticket to employees' partners.

El Al airlines is as Jewish as it gets. Strictly orthodox, never flying on holy days, only kosher food. All Torah laws apply.

The Israeli Supreme Court, however, ruled against them and in favor of gay rights.

Jewish democracy at work.

[whosinpower]

15. Is Saudi Arabia democratic?

Really?

How about Iran? Would you say that Iran is a democratic state?
Syria?
Jordan?
Egypt?

Do any of these states trully uphold democratic principles?

By Abbas refusing to do this, he is actually protecting Israel's democratic principles - even if Netnayahu/Lieberman will not see that they lead ALL of Israel's citizens.......non jews included. Even if they are a minority - they have a right to a voice.

If Abbas does this - then the wheels grind along Lieberman's vision - and this WILL force people to be living in a state that was not their choosing...divest them of their citizenship based on religious/ethnic lines. The speech at the UN proved that it is in Lieberman's mind to do so....the oath of loyalty is already unequal and undemocratic. Be careful what you wish for.

[Crunchy Frog]

22. Maybe it's because they're not being occupied by Iran?

:shrug:

[parkia00]

14. Yah but then....

If the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state as demanded, and get the "temporary" halt to settlements, and after the "time out" for settlement expansions is passed and the settlements start again, then what? What's the use? Would you accept a Palestinian offer to recognize Israel as a Jewish state for only a specified time period? It would be different if something substantial was offered. Like accept Israel as a Jewish state with equal rights for non-Jewish citizens as Jewish citizens, permanent halt to settlements, exchange of land to compensate already existing large settlements, permanent stop of Palestinian attacks, free travel etc... All this talk of a temporary halt to this or that is just bullshit. It's putting the issue off for a later time cause we are still finding a way to kill off a permanent peace without making like we are trying to kill off a permanent peace. If Bibi agrees to a permanent settlement freeze, he wouldn't last another week as prime minister because the powers that be in Israel are totally against any settlement freeze. Bibi wouldn't because he can't. Which brings into light Israels credibility as a serious peace partner and all the rhetoric about wanting peace.

[txaslftist]

19. Exactly.

Israel's promises to halt settlements or freeze settlement expansion or blah blah blah might as well be written in sand.

On a windy day.

The Palestinians have to take what they can get, I suppose, on the long road to their ethnic cleansing, but I don't see why Israel has to rub their noses in it.

[Mosby]

20. then why not make a counter offer

Along those lines and put the onus on israel?

[Violet_Crumble]

24. There was a very recent OP where a counter offer was made...

Senior Palestine Liberation Organization official Yasser Abed Rabbo said on Wednesday that the Palestinians will be willing to recognize the State of Israel in any way that it desires, if the Americans would only present a map of the future Palestinian state that includes all of the territories captured in 1967, including East Jerusalem.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x335402

I think that's an excellent offer. Don't you agree?

[txaslftist]

21. An empty bad-faith offer.

Same as the last fake "freeze".