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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 08:15 AM Original message |
Could Syria see an uprising like Egypt's? Not likely. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 08:16 AM Response to Original message |
1. Report: Hizbullah fighters deployed in sensitive areas in Syria |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 08:20 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Google Translate: Syria: a thousand Hezbollah fighters to protect the regime and punishing events |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 09:24 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. Altogether unlikely... |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 11:02 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. Sure sounds like horseshit. nt |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 10:05 AM Response to Original message |
4. quote from "Syria’s Assad talks of reform as protests loom" |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 11:00 AM Response to Original message |
5. Hard to say. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 01:01 PM Response to Reply #5 |
9. Freedom House rates Syria's human rights situation worse than Egypt's. NT |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 01:04 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. I am not defending the Syrian dictatorship. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 01:15 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. I didn't say you were. NT |
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whosinpower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 11:04 AM Response to Original message |
7. Egypt proved it |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 12:58 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. Syria is far more brutal against protests than Egypt has shown to be. NT |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 01:03 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. It all depends on the loyalty of the military. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 04:38 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. It's too bad there's no support for Syrian protestors compared to support for Egyptians. N/T |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-05-11 05:40 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Well, that's an interesting point. |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 07:15 PM Response to Reply #14 |
18. You might want to Google the Hama massacre |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 07:59 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Don't be unpleasant, I haven't accused you of being ignorant. nt |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 09:29 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. There was no unpleasantness in my post |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 10:52 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. You implied I don't know about Hama. |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 09:54 AM Response to Reply #24 |
30. Did not know if you knew about it |
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LeftishBrit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 12:15 PM Response to Reply #7 |
15. I hope you are right! |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 04:00 PM Response to Original message |
16. just dropped by for a second.... |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 07:14 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. That was old man Assad... |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 07:17 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. Does it remain to be seen? |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 08:59 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Would you say poverty has something to do the uprising in Egypt? |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-06-11 09:31 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. Absolutely |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 12:32 AM Response to Reply #21 |
25. It depends on how you define poverty... |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 01:10 AM Response to Reply #25 |
26. again history is to be ignored... |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 02:42 AM Response to Reply #26 |
28. He's actually an opthalmologist... |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 08:42 AM Response to Reply #28 |
29. Don't forget the Kurds. They got gassed you know. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 04:21 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. correction on little assads past profession... |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 06:33 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. In the Middle East, a liberal democracy would be too Zionist... |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 01:10 PM Response to Reply #34 |
41. 2005: Abbas triumphs in Palestinian elections |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 05:04 PM Response to Reply #41 |
44. 2005 : Big Hamas win in Gaza's election |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 05:26 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. that is indeed 'odd':Washington Post Foreign Service Friday, January 27, 2006 |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 10:17 PM Response to Reply #45 |
51. The Guardian, 29 January 2005: Hamas wins Gaza Strip council vote |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 03:37 AM Response to Reply #51 |
58. the Gaza Council was an occupation government , elections were held again a year later when the PA |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 09:23 AM Response to Reply #58 |
92. An occupation government? |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 05:31 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. weren't those elections held while Gaza was under total Israeli occupation ? |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 10:19 PM Response to Reply #46 |
52. "Thousands of Hamas supporters took to the streets of Gaza yesterday to celebrate the victory" |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 03:35 AM Response to Reply #52 |
57. then why were elections held a year later?They were the Gaza Council elections not the PA elections |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 03:59 AM Response to Reply #52 |
60. Once again you seem to fail to recognize that Israel was in total control and occupation of Gaza |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 07:44 AM Response to Reply #60 |
90. Total control of Gaza ended with Oslo II in 1995 |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 03:08 AM Response to Reply #41 |
56. elections do not define a democracy... |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 03:42 AM Response to Reply #56 |
59. yes much like Israel we're constantly lead to believe that Kadima should |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 04:23 AM Response to Reply #59 |
61. confused? |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 09:34 AM Response to Reply #61 |
75. South Africa was also a democacy during apartheid |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 10:06 AM Response to Reply #75 |
76. same confusion..... |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 10:31 AM Response to Reply #76 |
77. no 'confusion' what so ever at the moment there is no single value at work in Egypt |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 03:13 PM Response to Reply #77 |
80. too bad..wrong again |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 04:13 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. apparently sarcasm is lost on you my point is that Israel is not afraid |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 01:54 AM Response to Reply #81 |
89. no we're not afraid |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 01:24 PM Response to Reply #89 |
94. well there are some here that at least until very recently pumping the idea |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 04:03 PM Response to Reply #94 |
95. then prices go up...as they have been recently |
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ProgressiveMuslim (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 06:43 AM Response to Reply #76 |
101. Israel clearly "neglects" civil rights for its citizens. Does that negate its status as a democracy |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 10:25 AM Response to Reply #101 |
102. which citizens? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 10:53 AM Response to Reply #102 |
103. Deleted message |
pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 12:36 PM Response to Reply #103 |
106. i would agree that i am a cultural elitist.... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 04:30 AM Response to Reply #59 |
62. Then again, Kadima is ALSO essentially a right-wing party. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 04:42 AM Response to Reply #62 |
63. And the USA is more rightwing than Israel while Egypt has no leftwing. So...? n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 04:45 AM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Egypt has a huge leftwing...it's part of the democratic revolution that's overthrowing Mubarak |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:08 AM Response to Reply #64 |
65. Okay, what is their political agenda? What exactly do they stand for? Be specific please. n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:12 AM Response to Reply #65 |
66. Here is a list of their demands, as quoted by the Associated Press |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:16 AM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Doesn't sound any different than what Palestinians wanted 5 years ago, and received with Hamas. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:25 AM Response to Reply #67 |
68. Why should I bother with this exchange? |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:30 AM Response to Reply #68 |
69. So you're behind an Egyptian political movement that you hope isn't as grossly rightwing as Mubarak |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:38 AM Response to Reply #69 |
71. You know perfectly well that the revolt against Mubarak is not a call for sharia |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:59 AM Response to Reply #71 |
73. So if worse comes to power after Mubarak, it's the will of the people and so be it - right Ken? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 11:56 AM Response to Reply #73 |
78. You can't keep Egypt a one-party state for decades to come. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 05:59 PM Response to Reply #78 |
96. So you're for the will of the people if they vote for theocracy and more conflict vs. Israel? n/t |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 12:18 AM Response to Reply #96 |
98. You can't reduce the question to that |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 05:13 AM Response to Reply #98 |
100. Do you believe Kach should be able to run in Israel or the Nazi party in any western democracy? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 11:42 AM Response to Reply #100 |
104. It is NEVER that simple-stop repeating a meaningless question. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 05:23 PM Response to Reply #104 |
107. You're avoiding the question. Here's another: How is Kach worse than the Muslim Brotherhood? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 08:41 PM Response to Reply #107 |
110. The question is irrelevant |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 09:38 PM Response to Reply #110 |
111. No it's not - and electing a Hamas or MB into power, when such an organization will never allow... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:35 AM Response to Reply #67 |
70. I just realized the rhetorical trick you did. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 05:47 PM Response to Reply #70 |
109. It was no trick, it was a routine Zionist plot. |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 06:19 AM Response to Reply #62 |
74. so?....it has right wing coalition... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:21 PM Response to Reply #74 |
84. I accept that the Israeli electorate has the right to make its choices |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 04:26 PM Response to Reply #62 |
82. Kind of an oversimplification. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:20 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. I didn't attribute the entirety of Kadima's creation to racism |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 06:06 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. Okay... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 06:32 PM Response to Reply #85 |
86. He was defeated by Amir Peretz |
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Shaktimaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 07:28 PM Response to Reply #86 |
88. Your view is a little outdated in my opinion. |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 07:55 AM Response to Reply #62 |
91. "which didn't fail to slaughter thousands of innocent Lebanese civilians" |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 11:48 AM Response to Reply #91 |
93. Deleted message |
shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 07:29 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Agreed |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 12:10 PM Response to Reply #35 |
39. There is not a "democratic process in Iran which is generally meaningful" |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 07:21 PM Response to Reply #39 |
47. There have been six presidents of Iran since 1980... |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 07:55 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. Three of those six presidents were elected with over 90 percent of the vote |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 09:15 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. Perhaps in some cases its because they were the best candidate... |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 10:12 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. The "independent human rights activist called Banisdar" was impeached in a year |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 11:04 PM Response to Reply #50 |
53. You previously implied that Banisadr was illegitimate |
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oberliner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 11:29 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. You keep ignoring the presence of the Supreme Leader in each of your posts |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 01:03 AM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Deeply flawed, extremely flawed, very flawed |
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shaayecanaan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 07:04 PM Response to Reply #55 |
87. No response, eh? |
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pelsar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 01:12 AM Response to Reply #17 |
27. and with the son... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 12:41 PM Response to Original message |
31. Deleted message |
shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Feb-07-11 06:12 PM Response to Reply #31 |
33. Democratically electing another dictator/tyrant for life sucks, don't you think? |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 12:34 AM Response to Reply #33 |
36. A "genuine liberal democracy" can NEVER be created |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 05:49 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. It wasn't created by replacing the Czar w/ Stalin, the Shah w/ Khomeini or the PA w/Hamas.... |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 06:35 AM Response to Reply #37 |
38. The Tsar WASN'T replaced by Stalin-Stalin came along later. |
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whosinpower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 12:46 PM Response to Reply #37 |
40. Ah - but who installed the Shah? |
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azurnoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 01:22 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. wasn't the CIA instrumental in installing the Shah's artificial monarchy? |
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whosinpower (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Feb-08-11 01:44 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. yes |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 05:54 AM Response to Reply #42 |
72. Mussadegh's major crime was nationalizing the oil, which was controlled by the soon-to-be-extinct |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Feb-10-11 06:01 PM Response to Reply #40 |
97. The US assisted Iran in replacing Mossadegh - so an overthrow was most likely inevitable |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 12:19 AM Response to Reply #97 |
99. Nobody in Iran WANTED Mossadegh overthrown |
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LeftishBrit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 12:09 PM Response to Reply #37 |
105. What about the 1989-90 revolts in Eastern Europe? |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 05:32 PM Response to Reply #105 |
108. Ideology vs. Empirical evidence and rational reasoning |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 09:50 PM Response to Reply #108 |
112. What indicators are you talking about? |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 11:07 PM Response to Reply #112 |
113. And yet another strawman, as I've never indicated the protests are a MB conspiracy. |
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Ken Burch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Feb-11-11 11:11 PM Response to Reply #113 |
114. No, that is NOT a certainty. |
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shira (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Feb-12-11 06:45 AM Response to Reply #114 |
115. It's not a certainy because you have blind faith a strong secular/liberal party will emerge. |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Feb-09-11 01:32 PM Response to Original message |
79. Syria: 'A kingdom of silence' |
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