Report: Argentina offered Iran to 'forget' its role in Jewish center bombing

[King_David]

Paper says Argentina would be prepared to 'freeze investigations of terrorist bombings attributed to Iran in 1992 and 1994, in exchange for renewing and improving trade relations between the countries, which at their height reached $1.2 billion a year.'
By Shlomo Papirblat
In secret negotiations with Iran, Argentina has offered to "forget" the bombings of the Israeli embassy and the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires, in 1992 and 1994, respectively, in exchange for improved relations between the two countries.

According to the Argentine weekly Perfil, which broke the story yesterday, Foreign Minister Hector Timerman is personally involved in the talks. The Argentinean Foreign Ministry has so far declined comment.

For his report, the veteran investigative reporter Pepe Eliaschev relied on a classified document that indicated the Argentinean government "would be ready to freeze the investigations of terrorist bombings attributed to Iran in 1992 and 1994, in exchange for renewing and improving trade relations between the countries, which at their height reached $ 1.2 billion a year."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/report-argentina-offered-iran-to-forget-its-role-in-jewish-center-bombing-1.351983

[King_David]

1. Why bomb the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires ?

I thought Iran was anti-Zionist and not antisemitic?

[aquart]

2. Smooch! I love people who pretend there's a difference!

Just so much!

[Ken Burch]

17. Most people who self-identify as "anti-Zionist" were appalled at the bombing in Buenos Aires

And constantly denounce antisemitism where they see it.

I'm not anti-Zionist, but I can't let that smear go unchallenged.

Those that are just want a unitary state in which everyone lives as an equal. They aren't antisemites.

And the best way to prevent such a state is to STOP insisting that a Palestinian state be as small and weak as possible.

[shira]

22. Most anti-zionists....."constantly denounce antisemitism where they see it" ???

Really?

Then by all means, please start denouncing Hamas and PLO state-sponsored antisemitism that has resulted in 97% of Palestinians having negative attitudes towards Jews.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=345180&mesg_id=345451

If you still don't believe the poll results, then at least show us how "progressives" strongly condemn Hamas and the PLO for incitement to hate, intolerance, racism, xenophobia, and antisemitism. Explain how such state-sponsored hate destroys a society and makes the prospects of peace even more remote, etc...

[King_David]

23. I am not sure thats true

'Most people who self-identify as "anti-Zionist" were appalled at the bombing in Buenos Aires'

Where do you get this from?

My feeling is that most people who are self identifying as 'anti-Zionist' use that word 'Zionist' as a code word , on the far left and right.

[Ken Burch]

25. It has entirely different resonances when used by the far right.

The far right does, indeed, use it as code for antisemitism...with their bizarre references to the "ZOG" and all that rot.

Those on the left who use the term do so out of their version of a universalist conception of social justice and equality, and do so without malice.

It's demagogic to confuse the two usages.

[King_David]

27. So it is the Far Right or Far Left or Both that insits that

Zionism = Racism ? Because thats clearly antisemitic.

[Ken Burch]

29. While I don't agree with the statement that Zionism=Racism...

I'm not sure that in and of itself that that is, in fact, an antisemitic statement. It could just as easily be taken as an anti-nationalist statement.

The issue that Palestinians had with Zionism was never about the claim that it was creating a "Jewish" state. It was about the supremacist implications they saw in such a state. In practice, Zionism has been ambiguous about equality for Arabs living in Israel...sometimes working towards it, sometimes not(Israeli Arabs were under a racially exclusive form of martial law for the first sixteen years of Israel's existence(progressives in Israel staged a heroic campaign to end that, and for that I salute them).

And it's tiresome to equate almost all criticism of Israel with antisemitism. It's simply not about that at all.

At the root of all the dissent is in this dilemma:

If Group A does harm to Group B, does this give those who claim to speak for Group B the right to do harm to Group C, even if Group C had nothing to do with what Group A did to Group B?

[Ken Burch]

18. Iran's government is crazy.

And you can't equate all "anti-Zionists" with pro-Iranian terrorists.

I'm not an anti-Zionist, but smears like that can't be left unchallenged.

[Alamuti Lotus]

21. revenge for the martyrdom of Sayyid Abbas Musavi and Sheikh Ragheb Harb

and countless massacres carried out by the zionist occupation forces in Lebanon. So stated from the deep shadows by IJO, anyway. Never really believed Iran's role in the affair, nor could I really ascertain the significance of Buenos Aires, except perhaps to gloat about the distance they were able to reach.

[King_David]

28. Why Bomb a Jewish Community center? nt

[Alamuti Lotus]

31. As I implied, I never quite understood the choice of target

The reasoning for IJO to act was and is clear to me; the precise course of action is not. I know members of Hizbu'llah that swear the same as well. But then again, it was a black op carried out by a shadowy splinter group, with many of their own particular motivations for acting as they did in a variety of other situations.

[aquart]

3. Argentina, happy home of exiled Nazis?

[Peace Patriot]

4. England and the West "forgot" Lockerbee in order to have Libya's oil. This seems similar.

Governments can be opportunistic when it comes to trade deals. Ho-hum.

Looks like some Class A spying was involved in this one (to get the "classified document"). I think it's quite notable that Timerman is Jewish--Argentina's first Jewish Foreign Minister (which the article discloses). So this rules out any possibility that the Argentine government and its leftist president, Cristina Fernandez, are somehow being anti-semitic in considering a freeze on the investigation. This appears to be merely a pragmatic decision having to do with trade advantages and possibly it is also an expression of the general leftist policy in South America of pursuing world peace (which, in our current world, mostly means opposing U.S. war).

Both Lula da Silva, of Brazil, and Hugo Chavez, of Venezuela, made friendly overtures to Iran's president, Ahmedinejad, inviting him to their countries and visiting Iran. Lula went out of his way to try to broker a nuclear materials deal to get Iran off the U.S. hit list. Cristina Fernandez is very much in accord with these politicians. They all believe that Latin America requires peace in order to achieve its potential as a democratic and prosperous region.

The second part of the article indicates that the Iranian government has not been accused of the bombings; rather, individual Iranian citizens. Over a hundred people were killed and hundreds injured in the embassy and Jewish community center bombings, in 1992. What the Argentine government would be doing, in exchange for trade deals, is letting the Iranian government off the hook as to extraditing its accused citizens. This would not be a great victory for justice but, again, it's routine for governments--which, in addition to pragmatism about trade, are very reluctant to extradite their citizens.

As to extradition, the article mentions extradition to a "third country," so the thing had already hit snags, but the article doesn't explain the situation very well. For instance, does the Iranian government have control of the accused citizens? It may not. And this would make a request for extradition embarrassing. It's possible the Iranians admitted this, through the mediators, thus Argentina's case was moot anyway. Why there were mediators--especially such high placed ones--the president of Syria--is not explained. I think this may be why. The perps have long since vanished in the haze and the Iranian government cannot produce them. The Iranian government could be complicit (i.e., hiding the perps, or worse, instigated the bombings), but the Argentine government, with a Jewish Foreign Minister, is not acting as if they are.

All in all, I think that what we may have here, in this article, is an attack on Timerman for being Jewish and pursuing a peaceful path with Iran. And the original article and its investigation appears to have been hellbent on sabotaging peaceful relations with Iran. I suspect war profiteers and rightwingnutism in both cases--the Perfil article and this Haaretz article. I haven't read the Perfil article, but the Haaretz article seems like a hit piece. Target: Timerman. Secondary target: Fernandez.

All of the alleged 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Did the U.S. end trade with Saudi Arabia and Yemen? Boycott them? Push the UN for sanctions? Threaten to invade them? Call them the "Axis of Evil"? Bomb them? Kill tens of thousands of their people? No, indeed. And I would not have wanted the U.S. to do so, because war is not the answer. Israel wants the U.S. to bomb and invade Iran. They think that's the answer for Iran being hostile to Israel. Lula da Silva, Hugo Chavez, Cristina Fernandez and others have another idea: peace. Engage Iran in trade. De-isolate Iran. Roads are hard to build. Start building the road that leads to reduced hostility, more understanding, mutual benefit, mutual safety, the common good. This is a policy that both U.S. and Israeli war profiteers and rightwing powers actively hate. So, someone has tried to put a landmine on the peaceful road, by disclosing this classified document and by rigging the headline with the word "forget." The document apparently says "freeze" (the investigation) not "forget" what happened. "Forget" is a hot political word, of course, related to the Holocaust. The title of the Haaretz article really loads the case.

[King_David]

5. It is amazing how a Govermment loses its principles

For money.

[shira]

7. You think that's bad, here's a Norwegian politico calling for bombing Israel

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fnyheter%2Firiks%2Farticle4073714.ece

Isn't that sweet? Israel better not respond to Hamas rockets or else!!!

Great news for Hamas! If that gains traction, they just may have to declare all out war and dare Israel to defend, which would bring on NATO....

:eyes:

[bemildred]

6. Truly weird story in every respect. Reeks of bullshit.

So 19 years on this is all we get, the same old unattributed blather. The never-ending investigation sort of reminds me of the Hariri matter, another one in which Iran is supposedly involved which seems to wander on forever with monthly blather updates and no new facts.

It would be worth it if we could get Mr Timerman to explain his views, and whether any of this is true or not.

[shaayecanaan]

16. After 19 years of nothing, was the investigation headed anywhere anyway?

and even if it were, what would Iran have to offer Argentina? I would have thought the Iranians need all the customers that they can get.

On the other hand, I am amused at the shrill, high-handed Israeli response:- "We are waiting an official reaction from the Argentinian Chancellery. If the reports are confirmed, they would be very serious and an expression of infinite cynicism to the dead". Talleyrand, eat your heart out. No wonder Israeli diplomats are taking the world by storm with diplomatic dazzle like that.

[bemildred]

24. Well, my point is that sometimes the "investigation" is the end in itself.

There is no intent to ever indict or prosecute or convict. In the same way that we have perpetual crises, we have perpetual investigations, and for similar reasons, the "investigation" or "crisis" is itself a means to political ends,and never intended to arrive at some resolution, some legal result, it is a propaganda tool, or a safe way to stall, or the pretext for some new and otherwise unacceptable status quo. This has long been common in US politics, and in US conduct of foreign affairs, I don't even think it's a controversial idea.

[azurnoir]

8. 'Iran asks Argentina to forget attacks on Jewish targets'

Iran allegedly offered Argentina to “forget” about the 1992 and 1994 bombings of the Israeli embassy and Jewish center in Buenos Aires which killed 114 people and wounded hundreds in return for improved financial relations, an Argentinian newspaper reported on Saturday.

According to the Argentinean tabloid Perfil, the Islamic Republic asked the South American country to drop the ongoing investigation into the bombings which are believed to have been carried out by Hezbollah and Iran.

<snip>

“Argentina is no longer interested in solving these two attacks, but would rather improve its economic relations with Iran," the newspaper quoted an Iranian document it said it had obtained as saying.

Perfil, which is a vocal critic of Argentiean President Cristina Fernandez, said the offer was made to Argentinean Foreign Minister Hector Timmerman during a recent visit to Damascus where he met with Syrian President Bashar Assad, a close ally of Iran.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=213979

[bemildred]

9. I googled "Argentina Iran".

About six Israeli sourced stories for the 1992 bombing, well over 500 from all over on the UNHRC rights investigation of Iran.

[azurnoir]

10. something doesn't seem right?

Argentina remembers deadly bombing of Israeli Embassy in 1992

Politicians and Jewish leaders have commemorated the anniversary of the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires and expressed concern about the growing influence of Iran in Latin America. “Iran was behind the 1992 Embassy attack. Iran is trying to increase its influence in Latin America,” Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said in a message read out by Israel's ambassador to Argentina, Daniel Gazit.

<snip>

The perpetrators of the deadly car bombing are still at large, as are those who planned the attack on the AMIA Jewish center in Buenos Aires in July 1994, in which 85 people died. Gabriel Pitchon, a survivor of the 1992 attack, expressed the commitment of family and friends of the victims to seek justice. Timerman told the crowd at the memorial that President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner had appealed to Iran to cooperate with the justice minister of Argentina in the AMIA case at the General Assembly of the United Nations in September 2010, proposing that a third country should judge Iranian citizens accused of involvement in the attack.

http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/10082


you mentioned the Hariri investigation weren't the findings supposed to made public this month?

[bemildred]

11. April I think, according to the stories in February or around then.

Looking forward to it, if true.

WRT "something doesn't seem right", it seems weird in the first place to "commemorate" things like atrocities; and there are so many of these things where you never get an actual perp, real or imaginary, holding a real perp to account seems unimportant, they just sort of go on and on in limbo, a political football. The true facts of what happened remain ever obscure while questions of cause and blame become public dogmas.

I always notice when stories are predominantly from one source, like mainly in Israeli sources as in this case, or only on Press TV, or only in US mainstream media, or the right wing sources, those tell you how things are seen in particular places or what views are being pushed. And from that you get hints about motives.

[King_David]

12. The source is Argentinian,the Argentine weekly Perfil

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12876932

'The report about a putative deal appeared on Saturday in Argentine media. The newspaper Perfil quoted a leaked Iranian diplomatic cable that detailed the offer.'

[azurnoir]

13. so let's go to the source Perfil

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.perfil.com%2F

there are 3 titles for this story first the original


Surprise of the Jewish community under the secret deal and the Government of Iran

then the second

The Government negotiated a secret deal with Iran to "forget" the attacks

and the third

For the prosecutor, "the Government does not intend to stop the AMIA"


just in case there is any confusion about AMIA

Asociación Mutual Israelita Argentina

This page was last modified on 2 March 2011 at 20:42.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asociaci%C3%B3n_Mutual_Israelita_Argentina

[King_David]

14. Doesnt clear it up tho , and seems to be making a diplomatic incident now

[bemildred]

15. I got that, I was talking about who is carrying it. nt

[Ken Burch]

19. The U.S. "forgot" that Werner Von Braun developed the V-2 Rocket for Hitler

the rocket that was used to rain down death on London for years. And they did that just to get a boost in the "space race", a pointless competition to send rockets into the cosmos.

That's far worse than anything Argentina has done here.

[shaayecanaan]

20. They also "forgot" the medical experimentation carried out on Chinese prisoners by Japan's Unit 731

in exchange for Japan providing them with the results of the chemical and biological experiments that were carried out. The Soviets, on the other hand, gave lengthy prison sentences to Japanese war criminals, including those from Unit 731, in its custody.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

Prisoners of war were subjected to vivisection without anesthesia. Vivisections were performed on prisoners after infecting them with various diseases. Scientists performed invasive surgery on prisoners, removing organs to study the effects of disease on the human body. These were conducted while the patients were alive because it was feared that the decomposition process would affect the results. The infected and vivisected prisoners included men, women, children, and infants.

Vivisections were also performed on pregnant women, sometimes impregnated by doctors, and the fetus removed. Prisoners had limbs amputated in order to study blood loss. Those limbs that were removed were sometimes re-attached to the opposite sides of the body. Some prisoners' limbs were frozen and amputated, while others had limbs frozen then thawed to study the effects of the resultant untreated gangrene and rotting.

Germ warfare attacks

Prisoners were injected with inoculations of disease, disguised as vaccinations, to study their effects. To study the effects of untreated venereal diseases, male and female prisoners were deliberately infected with syphilis and gonorrhea, then studied. Prisoners were infested with fleas in order to acquire large quantities of disease-carrying fleas for the purposes of studying the viability of germ warfare.

Plague fleas, infected clothing, and infected supplies encased in bombs were dropped on various targets. The resulting cholera, anthrax, and plague were estimated to have killed around 400,000 Chinese civilians. Tularemia was tested on Chinese civilians.

[azurnoir]

26. Prosecutor: Probe into Argentina bombings not halted

The investigations into the 1992 and 1994 bombings of the Israeli embassy and a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires have not been stopped contrary to a recent report, a lawyer charged with handling the court case on behalf of the government said on Sunday.

Prosecutor Alberto Nisman denied a report which appeared in a local newspaper last week alleging Argentina had been offered and perhaps accepted a deal to “forget” the attacks which killed 116 people and wounded hundreds.

“It is absolutely preposterous, absurd,” Nisman told the Prensa Judia, a local Jewish newspaper. “It’s been a long time since I’ve read such nonsense.”

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=214167

[bemildred]

30. How about that.

Kind of restores your faith, he has not given up. :-)

Thanks for the update.

[rabs]

32. Israel demands clarification

Timerman

http://en.mercopress.com/2011/03/28/israel-demands-argentina-clarifies-an-alleged-trade-for-silence-deal-with-iran

Israel may cancel a visit by Argentina's foreign minister after a report that the country told Iran it would stop investigating two bombings of Jewish targets in exchange for better trade relations.
Argentinean Foreign Minister Hector Timerman is scheduled to visit Israel next week.

---------------------

Timerman has become a thorn for Peronista President Cristina Fernandez. Last month an Argentine judge threw out charges leveled by Timerman that a United States Air Force C-130 crew had smuggled in undeclared weapons, intelligence equipment and drugs into Argentina.

Now this weird story that has Israel all upset. Plus the large Jewish community in Buenos Aires is not happy.

[bemildred]

33. Government by weird story seems to be the norm these days.

Argentina seems to get one every couple of months. But hey, here in the states it's five or ten every day.