12 killed in Gaza's deadliest 24 hours since 2008-9 war

[defendandprotect]

http://www.brecorder.com/top-news/1-front-top-news/10525-12-killed-in-gazas-deadliest-24-hours-since-2008-9-war.html


Some interesting comments on this article --

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/04/09-0#comment-1800527

Some pointing out that "Palestinians live under Israeli occupation. Under international law, occupied people have the right to resist." And, obviously under conditions of daily brutality.

"Most of the world understands this. In February of this year, 14 members of the UN Security Council voted in favor of a resolution condemning Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem as "illegal." The USand Canada were the only votes against it."

Israel is one of the most powerful military forces in the world -- only because of $3 billion in
US tax dollars every year. And because they were our original foothold in ME --

2008, "Cast Lead" attacks killed 1400 Palestinian civilians, a huge proportion of them children.

Occupiers have responsibilities under international law. They are not allowed to confiscate property, bulldoze Palestinian homes, shoot peaceful protesters --

[Countdown_3_2_1]

1. All they have to do

is stop lobbing missiles at Israeli civilians and Israel will leave them alone.
Palestine is the aggressor here, not Israel.

try recognizing Israel's right to exist.
Try sinking money into palestinian business and not snuggled missiles.

Lobbing missiles at civilians is not resistance. Its an act of war. I've no sympathy for crybabies who get what they deserve. Hamas' own actions brought invasion upon Gaza. Thats not resistance, its plain stupidity.

[Boojatta]

2. "I've no sympathy for crybabies who get what they deserve."

Among the Palestinian victims, aren't there some civilians?

[Countdown_3_2_1]

3. Hamas puts gun emplecments on top of school buildings

Hamas uses human shields.

human shields have never stopped military actions. never ever.
Civilian casualties are always part of military operations.
I'm surprised this is new to anyone.

If the palestinians don't like this, maybe they could sit down and negotiate peace.
first things first. Stop the missiles, and there will be no need to retaliation.

Is it really too much to ask for palestinians to, "Give peace a chance?"

[defendandprotect]

8. You want a count on the children killed on both sides? Highest numbers killed by Israel!!

And Israel attacks humanitarian aid ships --

Has huge numbers of Palestinian political prisoners in their jails --

Perhaps the place for you to start is to admit that Palestine has a right to

exist --

and maybe Israel should stop pushing them out and building new settlements --

which are illegal!

But maybe your simplistic advice would work for us -- if we just stop attacking

Repugs they might be fair with us?

:rofl:

[King_David]

14. They have no excuse to lob the Rockests.

They are just causing more death and destruction.

If the Rockets stopped there would be no retaliation and no seige.

The cause of misery,death and despair falls squarely on the govt. of Gaza.

No rockets = no retaliation + no seige.

END THE WAR ,HAMAS.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

16. Israel's past behaviour makes a mockery of that claim.

We both know that even if Hamas stopped launching rockets, Israel would continue the siege, saying that otherwise they might start again.

I agree that Hamas should stop launching rockets, but I think that they should do so because it is wrong, not because it will make Israel stop the siege.

There are a whole chain of causes of misery and depair in Gaza, but by far the most important one was the Nakba. Blaiming the Palestinians for the suffering the Israelis have inflicted on them is grotesque.

[King_David]

17. Really?

.
When did the Seige start ?

When did the Rockets start?

What exactly do you think Israel has to gain from the seige? They just hate Arabs?

What advantage are the Rockets to Hamas? What on earth are they lobbing them for? Theres only ONE Jew (Shalit) in all of Gaza and sometimes 2 (Amira Hass-but even she was kicked out).

So remind me again, what`s Hamas` beef ? Gaza would be free,and its up to Hamas.

Your post is Bullshit.

[defendandprotect]

25. What would your "beef" be if you were living in an occupied nation?

What exactly do you think Israel has to gain from the seige? They just hate Arabs?

Wasn't that Netanyhu who said that all Palestinians weren't worth one Israeli

fingernail?

[King_David]

37. NO IT WAS NOT.

Did you just make up that fact?

It was said by : Yaacov Perrin

You need do some research badly !!!

[LeftishBrit]

49. No it wasn't

This, or something similar, was said by a viciously right-wing rabbi at the funeral of the terrorist Baruch Goldberg. He had absolutely nothing to do with Netanyahu.

[King_David]

18. 'Blaiming the Palestinians for the suffering ' (sic)

Who said that? (YOU)

The only people resposible for the suffering of The Palestinian people in Gaza are the Gov. Hamas is 100 % responsible.

Look to the West Bank today,its thriving.

Hamas is 100% responsible for the misery of the people they 'claim' to represent !

[shira]

20. To many here, Hamas is the Palestinian people so criticism of Hamas is criticism of Palestinians...

...and therefore bigotry. Palestinians in Gaza really don't mind being oppressed by Hamas, etc... because they "ALL" voted for it.

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

26. Israel has nothing to do with the suffering of Palestinians? They are not occupiers?

[King_David]

31. There is only ONE Jew in Gaza.

Gilad Shalit.

And The Hamas will not let him leave.

[defendandprotect]

24. Agree with you, the rockets only serve Israel's purposes in the end --

in ultimately causing Palestinians to leave --

[Riftaxe]

4. Are they wearing the same uniforms

as the mortar and missile crews?

[defendandprotect]

5. Palestine is an "occupied" nation -- how would Israel leave them alone ... by building

fewer illegal settlements -- edited to add the obvious -- IN PALESTINE?

[oberliner]

6. There are no settlements in Gaza

And that is where the rockets are coming from.

[defendandprotect]

7. Well, obviously the people in Gaza have nothing to complain about, then... !!!

:rofl:

Where did the dispossed families go when settlements were built --

or are you denying Palestinian families were forced out?

[oberliner]

9. There are no settlements in Gaza

You implied in your last post that there were.

I am not sure what settlements you are talking about with respect to Gaza.

All the Israeli settlements were evacuated from there several years ago.

Israeli families were forced out - in some cases quite violently.

Here is an article from 2005 (Democracy Now):

Israel Begins Forced Removal of Jewish Settlers From Gaza as Deadline Expires

Israeli troops began the forced evacuation of thousands of Jewish settlers from the Gaza strip Wednesday after a deadline for them to leave expired last night.

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/8/17/israel_begins_forced_removal_of_jewish

There are plenty of things to complain about in Gaza, but dealing with Israeli settlements isn't one of them.

[defendandprotect]

10. Game playing with semantics? I'm discussing overall Israeli Palestinian policies --

but where do you think those Israel has knocked off their land have gone?

But it does seem that forcing people out of their homes is quite popular with Israel!

[oberliner]

11. It's not semantics

There are settlements in the West Bank. There are no settlements in Gaza. Yet, from Gaza, there are rockets being launched at Israel, and from the West Bank, there are not.

What do you think is the reason for that?

[defendandprotect]

12. You're more than game-playing with semantics ... you're being disingenuous ...

The Gaza Strip is one of the territorial units forming the Palestinian territories.<4><5><6><7> Since July 2007, following the 2006 Palestinian legislative election and the Battle of Gaza, Hamas has functioned as the effective government in the Gaza Strip.

Again -- I was discussing overall Israel policies in Palestine --

and their continuing to build new settlements -- which are illegal -- and forcing

Palestinians off their land!

Gaza needless to say is populated by children of PALESTINIAN REFUGEES forced out --

And Israel is a nuclear nation -- financially supported by the US -- including the fact that

US/Israeli weapons production is so closely intertwined that you can barely tell the difference

between them.

[oberliner]

13. How so?

I am not sure what your Wikipedia citation has to do with anything, and I don't see where I am being disingenuous.

Both the West Bank and Gaza are populated partially by the descendants of those who fled or were forced out of what is now Israel. But the West Bank, not Gaza, is the place that has current settlements.

Here, then, is my question for you:

In the West Bank, there are settlements, and all of the negative things that go along with that.

Yet, there have been no rockets fired at Israel from the West Bank.

In Gaza, there are no settlements and have not been for about six years.

Yet, there are rockets being fired at Israel from Gaza.

Why do you think that is the case?

[defendandprotect]

28. You don't realize you suggested I was talking about settlements in Gaza ..?

Interesting --

How deep in denial are you?

Further, there have been no rockets for two years, yet there have still been

new illegal Israeli settlements in Palestine -

there are still killings by Israel --

and there is still an occupation -- a very brutal occupation.

[oberliner]

34. Not sure what is being "denied" here exactly

So you were aware that there were no settlements in Gaza? You believe that the settlements in the West Bank are the reason why the people in Gaza are firing rockets at Israel? I'm not sure I follow the logic of that. Why is it that there is still disunity among the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank and Gaza? Why is it that Palestinian elections have not been held in over five years? Why is that when the PA leadership announces plans for such elections, Hamas says they will not participate and will not honor the results?

My primary question to you, that I have asked several times is this:

Why is it that there are rockets being launched at Israel from Gaza (where there are no settlements) but not from the West Bank (where there are settlements)?

[defendandprotect]

35. Here's the answer: "You can't wake up a man pretending to be asleep" -- !!

So this isn't I/P isolation and you're all willing to discuss Israel policies, eh?

:eyes:

Bye --

[Shaktimaan]

45. No rockets for two years?

Your post said there were dozens fired just this saturday.

[Shaktimaan]

44. wait...

are you saying that palestinians are CURRENTLY being forced off their land?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. No, but there are in Palestine.

There are no settlements in all the bits of the West Bank that aren't settlements, too, when you get down to it...

But - thankfully - the Palestinians still mostly see themselves as one people rather than two.

That ceasing to be the case could well be a very bad thing, because it would make it harder for the PA to oust Hamas in Gaza.

[King_David]

19. Oh I see , Hamas are lobbing rockets in Gaza because of settlements in the west bank?

And why did they throw Palistinians off roofs and bring upon misery to their own people with operation cast lead?

The settlements?

okie dokie then.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. Cast Lead was an Israeli operation, not a Palestinian one.

[oberliner]

22. Were you out of town in June of 2007?

Kind of odd that you wouldn't realize the reference to these events:

Rival Palestinian forces clashed in Gaza, with two militants thrown out of high-rise buildings and killed, and gunmen opened fire early Monday in the house of Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas.

There were no immediate reports of casualties in the attack on Haniyeh's house in the Shati refugee camp next to Gaza City. It was the first time in a month of infighting that Haniyeh was an apparent target, underlining an escalation in tactics by the warring sides.

In an especially grisly incident Sunday, Hamas militants kidnapped an officer in a Fatah-linked security force, took him to the roof of a 15-story apartment building and threw him off. Mohammed Sweirki, 25, from the gfuard of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, was killed in the plunge.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/palestinian-gunmen-target-haniyeh-s-home-in-gaza-1.222703

[defendandprotect]

30. misplaced --

[LeftishBrit]

46. Of course, and I always opposed it. BUT...

Israel's actions cannot explain Hamas killing *Palestinians*. They killed three or four times as many Palestinians (opposition members) as Israelis at that time.

[defendandprotect]

29. But that would disturb the game-playing --

[defendandprotect]

23. Hamas makes rare appeal to Israel to halt fighting

Hamas makes rare appeal to Israel to halt fighting

By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Amy Teibel, Associated Press –

JERUSALEM – A senior member of Gaza's ruling Hamas movement on Sunday made a rare appeal to the Israeli public to halt escalating cross-border fighting, telling an Israeli radio station in fluent Hebrew that Hamas is ready to stop its rocket fire if Israel ends its attacks on Gaza.

With fighting continuing early Sunday, Hamas' deputy foreign minister, Ghazi Hamad, delivered the message to state-run Israel Radio. "We are interested in calm but want the Israeli military to stop its operations," Hamad said in Hebrew.

The violence escalated a week ago when an Israeli airstrike killed three Hamas militants who Israel said were planning a cross-border kidnapping. On Thursday, Hamas militants fired a guided anti-tank missile at an Israeli school bus, wounding the two people on board, including a teenage boy who was critically hurt.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians

[oberliner]

27. Ghazi Hamad said that Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth

From DU, 2006:

Ghazi Hamad said that Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x153561

From the BBC (same time period):

"Israel should be wiped from the face of the Earth. It is an animal state that recognises no human worth. It is a cancer that should be eradicated," said Ghazi Hamad, a spokesman for the Hamas-led government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6127250.stm

[defendandprotect]

32. And what has Netanyhu said of Palestinians? Who are the occupiers?

Wasn't it that all Palestinians weren't worth one Israeli fingernail?

[oberliner]

33. No, he did not say that

That quote is from the rabbi who gave the eulogy for Baruch Goldstein.

And I believe the rabbi said that a million Arabs were not worth one Jewish fingernail.

Disgusting comment, but not one from the Israeli government spokesperson or PM.

I would imagine there have been similarly disgusting comments made by extreme "religious" figures of all stripes and of all faiths.

[defendandprotect]

36. We can imagine a lot of "disgusting" comments on both sides ...

and they have certainly been said on the Israeli side!

And, what of Netanyhu -- right wing Fundamentalist who is said to have played

a role in the assassination of Rabin? Nothing has buried peace-loving liberal

Israelis as much as that last act.

[King_David]

39. You made that up too:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3617354,00.html

`Thirteen years after father's assassination, Yuval Rabin reportedly leaning towards voting for Likud chairman, who was blamed by family for part in incitement leading up to murder. `

Big difference in being blamed for incitement and actually playing a role.

Any other `fun facts ` to share with us ?

[defendandprotect]

40. Right .. I also wrote the book "Murder in the Name of God" ... and wrote the reports of what

Israelis think happened -- i.e., that Netanyhu was part of right wing, Fundi leadership

which moved to take out Rabin.

Why would anyone think that unusual, either given the fates of Sadat and Begin? Carter?

And would think it even more suspicious that Rabin's son is now on Netanyhu's side --

couldn't be intimdiation, by any chance?

The rightwing Fundamentalists in Israel are no different from W/Cheney/Rumsfeld here --

same destructive forces.

[LeftishBrit]

48. Rabin was indeed murdered by a RW Fundie, but that has nothing to do with Netanyahu

'The fate of Sadat and Begin? Carter?'

Well, Sadat was indeed murdered, though by one of his own country, not by Netanyahu or any other Israeli. But Begin? He died at 78, after being out of public life for several years. There is no suspicion of, or even obvious motivation for, murder.

Carter, I am glad to say, is alive and active at the age of 86.

[Shaktimaan]

43. Bibi is said to have played a role in Rabin's killing?

Um... by whom?

You're all over the place here. Not to mention that Rabin wasn't as peace-loving or liberal as you seem to think. He was willing to negotiate for peace, which is why he was killed. But in the end Sharon gave the Palestinians more in real terms than Rabin had even begun to.

This conflict is somewhat more complex than I think you might be willing to admit.

[LeftishBrit]

47. Netanyahu is a nasty right-wing politician whom I can't stand BUT

(1) He is not a Fundamentalist, if by this you mean a religious hardliner. There are some fundies in his government - notably members of the Shas party; and indeed some fundies in the Likud, notably his arch-rival Feiglin. But he is not himself a fundie, or ultra-religious in any way.

(2) There is no evidence to suggest that he had any role in the murder of Rabin.

[King_David]

38. Again you repeat a fact that you made up,

When you do not know facts,try not to make them up.

[defendandprotect]

41. Again -- the comment was made -- however, it was made by a Rabbi ....

but shall we look up some of the things Netanyhu has said of Palestinians?

[King_David]

42. Ahh now you were caught making things up

you want to `look up some of the things Netanyhu has said of Palestinians?`