A Palestinian 'gift' for Passover - Official Palestinian promotion of terrorism

[King_David]

8 Apr 2011

Emergency workers were greeted with the sight of 22 people already dead in the Passover bombing.

The Palestinian Authority has just honored the terrorist mastermind responsible for the 'Passover Massacre', a terrorist atrocity which claimed the lives of 30 innocent Israeli citizens attending the 'Seder', the traditional Passover meal, at Netanya's Park Hotel on March 27, 2002. The Seder, symbolizing the liberation of the Jewish people from slavery in Egypt, is the most family oriented of Jewish holidays, somewhat akin to Thanksgiving in terms of sentimental importance.

The Palestinian Authority has chosen a bizarre and troubling way to mark the upcoming Jewish festival of Passover. Despite an often voiced Palestinian commitment to end the glorification of terrorists and incitement to violence, on March 28 Issa Karake, the Palestinian Authority Minister of Prisoners' Affairs, visited the family of Hamas suicide-bomb mastermind Abbas Al-Sayed, awarding them with an official, festive plaque, in celebration of the anniversary of the massacre

This honor is not the only example of official Palestinian glorification of violence. In recent weeks, the Palestinian leadership named a youth soccer competition in Ramallah after Wafa Idris, the first female suicide bomber. Similarly, they named a square in El Bireh, as well as two schools and a summer camp, in honor of Dalal Mughrabi, commander of the March 11, 1978 massacre of 38 bus passengers on Israel's coastal road.




.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian_incitement/Palestinian_gift_for_Passover_8-Apr-2011.htm?DisplayMode=print

[inademv]

1. Is there a source that isn't Israel?

[King_David]

2. Ha Ha Ha :Do some research and let us know ?

[damntexdem]

5. Let's not bother. I don't trust the source.

[King_David]

6. So if it was a source you trusted,

You would think it was reprehensible and disgusting? Right?

[inademv]

11. No less disgusting than the repression of the Palestenian people

[shira]

12. You mean by Hamas and the PLO?

No basic human rights in the WB or Gaza under their own leadership, people still living in refugee camps under Hamas/PA control, children used as human shields and indoctrinated to be psychotic hateful warmongers...

[inademv]

13. By Israel, backed by the United States, since the 1950s

[shira]

14. Oh, I guess much worse repression by Hamas/PLO doesn't count. n/t

[inademv]

16. The crimes of Hamas and the PLO don't

make Israel's crimes look any better by comparison. Two wrongs don't make a right and the larger power repressing the smaller one (Israel repressing Palestine) is FAR worse by comparison. Israel is NO excuse to waging their war of revenge against the civilians of Palestine because of the actions of militants, supported or unsupported by what ever government happens to be in charge of Palestine at the time and the fact that Israel receives any sympathy in light of their variety of retaliation is utterly disgusting to me.

[shira]

18. Yes, they do - you're unaware or you don't care what Hamas and the PLO have done to Palestinians

And Israel doesn't take revenge on civilians due to Hamas/PLO attacks against its citzens.

Mr. Goldstone just admitted to that fact.

[inademv]

20. I don't give a damn what Hamas or the PLO did

It sure as fuck doesn't justify what Israel is doing to them. The fact remains that Israel carries out air strikes on civilian targets in direct retaliation to "rocket attacks" with shitty home made rockets. The fact remains that Israel has been caught admitting to intentionally keeping Gaza on the edge of economic collapse in order to control the Palestinian bargaining position in regards to the illegal Israeli settlements.

There is not a thing in the world that would justify Israel's behavior in this situation and they, and you, should be god damn ashamed of it.

[shira]

21. Yes, it's obvious you don't give a damn what Hamas and the PLO do to Palestinians...

The question is why you give a damn what Israel does?

There's nothing to be ashamed of WRT Israel defending its civilians from rocket attacks. If your town was bombarded by thousands of rockets and mortars, day and night, and your family and friends were under constant attack, having their lives disrupted at all hours of the day for years on end taking cover from rockets like rats scurrying in a cellar - I'm betting you'd want your government to do a whole lot more than Israel has done in response.

Of course, Israel's civilians aren't human so they don't deserve any kind of protection from those 'firecrackers', right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh8VJsZd3xY

That video shows what those little bottle rocket "firecrackers" can do.

[inademv]

22. Bullshit

Performing air-strikes against civilians targets has NOTHING to do with defending Israel. If defense was their concern then they would use lawful and non-destructive means to prosecute the perpetrators of the attacks, not bomb residential districts with WP.

If my town was being attacked by rockets and mortars then I would be disappointed if the response of my government was to bomb a university in the middle of the territory launching said mortars and rockets but somehow you seem to think that these two wrongs some how are equitable and that the latter is justified by the former. What a base human you are to believe in "an eye for an eye" philosophy.

Does Israel even make an effort to apprehend the perpetrators of said attacks? No, they simply carry out air-strikes in retaliation and call it justice.

I believe that Israeli citizens, of course they can't call themselves that as they are forced to call themselves "Jewish" citizens, deserve better than the attacks against civilians that their government carries out in their name. The actions of the Israeli government demean all Israeli citizens.

[shira]

25. "If my town was being attacked by rockets..."

You wrote:

If my town was being attacked by rockets and mortars then I would be disappointed if the response of my government was to bomb a university in the middle of the territory launching said mortars and rockets but somehow you seem to think that these two wrongs some how are equitable and that the latter is justified by the former. What a base human you are to believe in "an eye for an eye" philosophy.

The choice is between stopping those rockets being launched from civilian housing, schools, etc. but being careful to minimize civilian loss of life...

or

Letting them keep firing until they kill _____ amount of your own civilians.

======

You choose the latter, right?

[inademv]

26. Except that Israel doesn't take option 1

They do not respond directly against the attackers, instead they focus their response on the citizens of Palestine, holding them collectively responsible for the attacks.

How about this for you:

A country is invading your territory and evicting/demolishing the homes of your countrymen. Do you:

a) Plead for help from the international community to intervene and stop the invaders at the daily cost of more territory lost

or

b) Fight back against the encroachment of the invaders by any means possible.


No, I do not take the latter option because it isn't a 2 option scenario. Israel is renowned for the ruthlessness of their Mossad organization and you can be damn sure that they can and probably do use them to attack/kill the Palestinian militants who launch mortars and rockets into Israeli territories so the question is: why do they also launch air-strikes against targets in Gaza and other Palestinian areas as "retaliation" for (as the Israelis claim) "unwarranted" attacks?

[shira]

27. You're evading the scenario...

Imagine you're a pilot and Hamas is shooting rocket after rocket from a civilian building. It's just a matter of time before they hit your own civilians. What do you do? You would allow them to keep launching until how many Israelis die?

I'm waiting.

And of course Israel is careful to minimize civilian casualties. There were about 10,000 in Hamas during OCL out of a population of over 1.5 million, a 1:150 ratio of combatants to civilians, but Israel somehow achieved a ratio of 1:1 combatant to civilian killed during the operation. HOW on earth did they achieve that if they deliberately attacked civilians as a collective?

[inademv]

28. You're scenario is irrelevant

and supposes that vigilantism is an acceptable action. Say that a pilot in your absurd scenario chooses to attack what he believes to be individuals firing rockets and mortars into Israel and he causes civilian casualties, how is he any better than the individuals firing the rockets in the first place?

Are you suggesting that any civilian casualties are acceptable or are you just suggesting that Palestinian casualties are acceptable?

[shira]

29. It's not vigilantiism....

There's a difference between the pilot dropping a 250 lb bomb vs. a 500 lb vs 2000 lb on the building.

The fact is Hamas to civilians made up a 1:150 ratio and Israel somehow achieved a 1:1 combatant/civilian ratio. The IDF couldn't possibly do that unless they were extremely careful distinguishing between civilians and combatants, especially given Hamas' strategy to hide among civilians and try to maximize the number of innocent casualties.

Realize Hamas used children as shields because of their faith in the IDF's humanity. If they thought the IDF would indiscriminately bomb and kill no matter how many civilians there were, this strategy couldn't possibly work. Hamas has more faith in the humanity of the IDF than you do.

[inademv]

30. 1:1 still means

that for each militant they killed, they killed a civilian.

Sure is humanity to only pull your shots when the enemy is hiding behind 2 or more babies instead of just 1.

[shira]

32. That 1:1 is better than recent NATO operations, Iraq, Afghanistan. n/t

[inademv]

35. So?

[Jefferson23]

31. What a complete crock of shit you have posted here.

Operation Cast Lead, 27 Dec. '08 to 18 Jan. '09

http://www.btselem.org/english/Gaza_Strip/Castlead_Operation.asp



5 April '11: Goldstone then and now

http://www.btselem.org/English/Gaza_Strip/20110404_Response_to_Goldstone_Statement.asp

[shira]

33. The 1:1 ratio claimed by IDF was confirmed by Hamas and Goldstone believes it too.

How on earth did the IDF manage to achieve a 1:1 ratio when Hamas to civilians in Gaza was 1:150?

Also, that 1:1 is better than recent NATO efforts.


=======

Try again.

[inademv]

36. 1:1 is completely unacceptable, ergo...

worse ratios are also completely unacceptable. How do you sleep at night defending the murderers of innocent civilians by saying "they only killed 1 civilian for each militant they killed".

[Jefferson23]

37. I posted the information for anyone who cares to read other than

your version..people can decide for themselves after doing so.

[inademv]

38. I read it

"A democratic society must demand more of itself than simply being cleared of the most severe of suspicions."

Is the point that I've been trying to make here.

[shira]

42. About B'tselem's false reporting during OCL....

NGO GAZA WAR MYTHS REVISTED:
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/ngo_gaza_war_myths_revisited

Note on NGO funding:

B’Tselem: European Union, UK, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Netherlands, Ford Foundation, Christian Aid (UK), Trocaire

NGOs Claimed Hamas Police Were “Human Rights” Trainees

On December 27, 2008, the IDF attacked the Gaza City police headquarters and five police stations. Prior to the war, it had been documented that “members of the police force and the other security services were supposed to be widely integrated into Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades forces at the expense of their internal security tasks,” and Hamas police spokesman Islam Shahwan admitted that “police forces had been clearly instructed by the leadership to fight against IDF forces.”

Several studies compiled after the war confirmed that more than 75% of those killed in these strikes were indeed active fighters in Hamas’ al-Qassam brigades, making them combatants and legal targets under the laws of war.

Nevertheless, several NGOs, including B’Tselem, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch (HRW), the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR), Al Mezan, and others issued numerous condemnations of this legal strike. Based on no evidence, they accused Israel of directly targeting civilians and committing “war crimes.” Although many NGOs backtracked after examining the facts, the damage of their reckless accusations of war crimes had already been done.

On December 31, 2008, for instance, B´Tselem accused the IDF of committing “war crimes” by "targeting" police personnel, claiming these individuals were not “directly participating in the hostilities”. B’Tselem repeated Palestinian claims that at the time the police were targeted, they were undergoing a “training course” on “first aid”and “human rights.” B’Tselem failed to reveal its methodology for classifying these Hamas operatives as “civilians” nor did the organization appear to do any in-depth research as to the affiliations of individual police officers before issuing its condemnation.

But, when B’Tselem issued its comprehensive review of Gaza War casualties on September 9, 2009, the organization acknowledged that “many police officers in the Gaza Strip are also members of the military wings of Palestinian armed groups” and therefore, combatants. This admission belied B’Tselem’s earlier claims of indiscriminate targeting and “war crimes.”

B’Tselem also condemned the strike calling it a “grave breach of international humanitarian law” and incredulously stated that “it is hard to think of a definite military advantage that could have been achieved by bombing the house and killing Rayan” (emphasis added). Given Rayan’s status within Hamas and the weapons destroyed and command operations disrupted by the strike, it is actually quite easy to think of several “definite military advantages” that were achieved by the operation. In fact, many news outlets reported that the strike and Rayan’s death was “a severe blow to Hamas and its armed wing, Izzadin Kassam. Some Hamas supporters said on Thursday that Rayyan was more significant than Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh or senior Hamas leaders Mahmoud Zahar and Said Siam.”

=========

In other news about B'tselem...

B´TSELEM ACCEPTS BDS MONEY: BEHIND THE "BUBBES AND ZAYDES" FAÇADE
http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/b_tselem_accepts_bds_money_behind_the_bubbes_and_zaydes_fa_ade

In April 2010, B’Tselem staff member and NGO activist Lizi Sagie resigned after the organization came under pressure for statements made on her personal blog, including: “The IDF Memorial Day is a pornographic circus of glorifying grief and silencing voices,” “Israel is committing Humanity’s worst atrocities...Israel is proving its devotion to Nazi values...Israel exploits the Holocaust to reap international benefits.”

B’Tselem Chair of the Board Oren Yiftachel has been criticized for calling for sanctions against Israel and his support for the Palestinian “right of return.”

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/b_tselem

[Jefferson23]

46. False reporting? No,the record is clear on more than one account.

As I said previously, people who read your posts vs the record can decide
for themselves.

[shira]

49. Yes - deliberately false reporting from B'tselem on more than one occasion.

I can't say I'm surprised you have absolutely no reason to doubt their credibility given irrefutable and damning evidence against them.

[Jefferson23]

53. I understand you trust these sources, like CAMERA etc. For others to read and decide:

Monitoring The Monitor
By Leonard Fein
Published May 20, 2005, issue of May 20, 2005

One of the more active sideshows of our time is the tangle of new organizations devoted to uncovering and broadcasting what they see as “the truth.” Now that the Internet has radically simplified the work and lowered the cost of getting such messages out, it seems a wonder that there’s room in cyberspace for all the information that each day brings.

But there’s the rub: It’s not the quantity that’s the problem, it’s the nature of what passes for “information.” How are we to distinguish between information and noise? How can we tell when an organization’s ideological agenda colors its presentation?

What brings this to mind just now is an unfolding assault on Human Rights Watch, which is widely regarded and respected, along with Amnesty International USA, as the premier human rights agency in the United States. Its reports are carefully researched and, often to the embarrassment of governments, widely reported.

So, for example, its recent 53-page report on the “rendition” of some 60 alleged Islamist terrorists, sent to Egypt where (contrary to our president’s bland assessment) even our State Department indicates they are virtually certain to be tortured. Other Human Rights Watch reports in recent weeks have focused on Darfur; on America’s treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo, Afghanistan and Iraq, and on the state of human rights in Peru, in Nepal, in Iraq and in Vietnam.

These reports, frequently of conditions that would otherwise pass unnoticed, are produced by a staff of nearly 200 people in 15 offices around the world with an annual budget just short of $22 million.

It comes as no surprise that Human Rights Watch also speaks out on Israel, often (though not always) critically. Enter NGO Monitor, an organization that believes that the best way to defend Israel is to condemn anyone who criticizes it.

NGO Monitor operates out of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs/Institute for Contemporary Affairs. Its editor is Gerald Steinberg, a professor at Bar-Ilan University in Israel, and its stated purpose is “to end the practice used by certain self-declared ‘humanitarian NGOs’ of exploiting the label ‘universal human rights values’ to promote politically and ideologically motivated anti-Israel agendas.”

It is in that context that it has paid special attention to Human Rights Watch, offering on its Web site more reports on Human Rights Watch than on any other of the 75 NGOs it seeks to “out.” It holds that Human Rights Watch exploits “the rhetoric of universal human rights to promote narrow political and ideological preferences,” thereby falling squarely within the explicit scope of NGO Monitor’s interest.

I cannot here review all of what NGO Monitor claims as evidence for its harsh view that Human Rights Watch acts “in concert with international demonization of Israel.” But here are two items that provide an indication of the “narrow political and ideological preferences” of NGO Monitor itself:

On April 18, NGO Monitor issued a “draft report on Human Rights Watch” which claims that an “objective quantitative analysis” shows that Human Rights Watch places an “extreme emphasis on critical assessments of Israel.” I have reviewed the draft document and checked its central claim against the actual documents Human Rights Watch has produced regarding Israel since the year 2000. The discrepancy between NGO Monitor’s claims and Human Rights Watch’s record is massive.

http://www.forward.com/articles/3517/

Diversionary Strike On a Rights Group

By Kathleen Peratis
Wednesday, August 30, 2006

In early August Human Rights Watch issued a 49-page report, "Fatal Strikes: Israel's Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon," charging Israel with war crimes in its conduct of the war in Lebanon. Many of the Lebanese civilian casualties could not be explained by Hezbollah soldiers' hiding among civilians, Human Rights Watch charged. Although Hezbollah fighters did hide among civilians, the rights group discovered that in about two dozen instances, involving about a third of the civilian deaths, there had been no Hezbollah presence at the time of the attacks and the targets had little or no military value.

The report was based on the same methodology that Human Rights Watch has used for more than 20 years in situations in which many witnesses have an incentive to lie: face-to-face probing and on-site inspections -- in this case in Beirut and southern Lebanon.

The critics of reports on this subject -- Amnesty International made similar charges -- have been ferocious. They have not merely deployed the common defense of accusing the accusers of getting the facts wrong. They have gone much further and accused the accusers of bad intent. For example: NGO Monitor, echoing other critics, claims that "central in the strategy" of Amnesty International is "to delegitimize Israel."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/29/AR2006082901045.html

[shira]

54. The 2 examples cited WRT B'tselem and OCL prove beyond any reasonable doubt they were wrong.

And they went beyond wrong - condemning Israel for crimes against humanity rather than leave open the possibility that the IDF attacks just 'MIGHT' have been - as they were PROVEN to be - lawful.

Deny all you wish but the record speaks for itself.

I never tire watching folks like yourself trying to deny the obvious, defending the indefensible...

:eyes:

[Jefferson23]

56. I think you may have misunderstood, I posted this for others who read

your posts.

[shira]

57. Your arguments are based on logical fallacies. Imagine if I cited CAMERA and NGO-MONITOR

...and my best and only argument was "because they say so it must be true...".

That's all you're doing here. Your source must be right. All mine suck. Facts and empirical evidence, logic be damned.

=======

The Leonard Fein article about NGO-Monitor is even more ridiculous these days considering what the Arab world is going through now. HRW over reported on Israel and under reported WRT Arab regimes which are 100x worse. Amnesty even admitted to doing this...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x175318

[Jefferson23]

58. Yes, you're correct, imo your sources suck. As I stated earlier, this

was not posted for you, but for others to decide for themselves.

[shira]

59. But see, it's not about sources - it's about facts and empirical evidence. n/t

[inademv]

66. Evidence that isn't backed up by

any source other than the bad ones you provided

[shira]

68. My sources are honest and accurate, but lemme know which facts/evidence you want backed up. n/t

[sabbat hunter]

89. however

those rocket attacks are coming from civilian areas. Israel tries to target where the rockets came from. If the people who fire the rockets weren't such cowards and didn't use their own countrymen as shields, there would be far less civilian casualties on the Palestinian side.

[King_David]

39. That says it all

At least we all now know what we dealing with.Thanks for clarifying that.We need not debate you any further.

[inademv]

47. I don't care what Hamas and the PLO did/do because

nothing they have done or can do will be justification for the crimes committed by Israel against the Palestinian people.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

55. Good luck with that - your position was proven to be bullshit.

Let me know how Israel managed a 1:1 combatant/civilian casualty rate when the Hamas to civilians ratio in Gaza was 1:150.

Still waiting.

How is it possible to call Israel's actions indiscriminate - or intentional WRT civilians - when they managed a ratio BETTER than NATO forces?

======

Even better, if Israel performed so badly - what does that say for NATO, the USA, and UK whose ratios are more on the order of 10:1 civilians to combatants?

:shrug:

Your position is complete bullshit.

[inademv]

62. Let me know why you think that

killing an equal number of innocent civilians as you do combatants is not morally reprehensible. I don't argue that Israel's actions are indiscriminate, I argue that they are doing illegal and immoral things in their murder of civilians and blockading of Gaza and invading of the West Bank.

It says that NATO, the USA, and UK are also morally bankrupt on the international stage, hell England has the world record of crimes against humanity resulting from its world wide imperialism. You really think that pointing to a dirtier culprit makes you somehow less guilty? Fucking slime.

[shira]

67. Israel's combatant to civilian ratios are tops in the world...

While it's fine to criticize and argue they can do better, they're already doing better than any other nation on the planet.

It's obscene to pretend they are among the worst violators and that they have no right to properly defend their civilians.

[Jefferson23]

70. Tops in the world, nope.

Snip* Dugard added that Goldstone’s op-ed misrepresented a key finding of the report when he said he no longer believed there was an intentional policy to target civilians. Such a policy was never the issue, Dugard points out; rather, it was Israel’s indiscriminate use of force that broke international law. “The principal accusation leveled at Israel,” he explains, “was that during its assault on Gaza, it used force indiscriminately in densely populated areas and was reckless about the foreseeable consequences of its actions, which resulted in at least 900 civilian deaths and 5,000 wounded.”

http://www.thenation.com/article/159952/goldstone-affair

Destruction of the remaining food industry

1014. As already reported, more than a third of all egg factories were destroyed by the Israeli
armed forces. Other testimonies, for example that of the Mayor of al-Atatra,520 who referred to
the destruction of his sister’s chicken farms, indicated that a substantial part of the chicken
farming industry appears to have been deliberately and systematically destroyed.
1015. The Mission also notes the destruction of the al-Wadiyah Group’s factories. The al-
Wadiyah Group employed some 170 people, had been in business since 1954 and produced a
variety of food and drinks. Dr. al-Wadiyah presented a detailed account of its activities and
losses to the Mission.521

1016. The Mission found no reason to believe that the premises of the flour mill, chicken farms
and food-processing plants that were destroyed had been used for purposes that would render
them in any way military objectives.

1017. The Mission also reviewed satellite images showing significant destruction of
greenhouses throughout Gaza.522 In total, it is estimated that over 30 hectares of greenhouses
were demolished; 11.2 hectares were destroyed in Gaza City and 9.5 hectares in north Gaza. The
Mission found that the large-scale and systematic destruction of greenhouses was not justified by
any possible military objective.

3. Destruction of water installations
Finally, in relation to the supply and treatment of water, the Mission analysed a limited
number of cases. The strikes on the al-Sheikh Ejlin plant and on the Namar water wells have
been described in some detail. The Mission also spoke at length with Mr. Munther Shublaq, who
was responsible for the CMWU Damage Assessment Report. That report indicates that all types
of water installations appeared to have been damaged to some extent during the Israeli
operations, but notes especially that in some areas, particularly Beit Lahia, Jabaliyah, Beit
Hanoun, part of Zeytoun, south of Rafah and the villages in the east, buildings, water and
wastewater infrastructure and other facilities have been totally destroyed. “Those areas need a
complete water and wastewater infrastructure which may require re-designing the networks
based on the new population in the area”.


Mr. Munther Shublaq noted that, although a number of wells had been struck, the worst
effects had been as a result of the damage to water-treatment plants and sewage pipes. The
Mission heard a number of reports that indicated that the strikes on plants, pipes, wells and tanks
had put considerable pressure on the sanitation and water-supply system.

The Palestinian Authority claimed that 5,708 roof water storage tanks were destroyed,
but it is not clear how many of these were on the roofs of the 4,036 houses that the Palestinian
Authority stated were destroyed.

The Mission found that the targeting of water-related installations was not justified by
any possible military objective.

Conclusions

The facts ascertained by the Mission indicate that there was a deliberate and systematic
policy on the part of the Israeli armed forces to target industrial sites and water installations. In a
number of testimonies given to Breaking the Silence, Israeli soldiers have described in detail the
way in which what is at one point euphemistically referred to as “infrastructure work” was
carried out. The deployment of bulldozers for systematic destruction is graphically recounted.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

[shira]

71. You must be confused. I was referring to Israel's civilian/combatants kill ratio...

...and you're bringing up another matter entirely. NATO, the US, and the UK in recent military operations kill FAR more civlians than combatants and therefore Israel does a better job protecting civilians than other militaries.

As to what you brought up, I responded to that here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x348166#348339

That's yet ANOTHER example of the Goldstone team showing its utter incompetence - for example, claiming there could not possibly be any military purpose for Israel's actions. Quite obviously there WAS a military purpose and Goldstone's team was too ignorant, incompetent, or irresponsible in not knowing better. Anyone with military background would laugh at what you just cited.

[Jefferson23]

72. No, I'm not confused, this is relevant to your discussion and

I posted information for those who may be interested.

More: A/HRC/12/48

page 216

The Juha, Abu Zur and Sawafeary families went back into the street in the afternoon of 5
January. Mr. Juha had his mother in front of him propped up on a two-wheeled trolley as she was
unable to walk. Mr. Sawafeary was near to him at the front of the group. Behind him, towards
the middle of the group, was his 15-year-old son, Ibrahim, carrying a white flag. Mr. Juha
believes he heard two shots. One of the shots hit his son in the chest. The group immediately
sought cover once again in the Mughrabi house. They tried to care for Ibrahim in the workshop
at the front of the house. His mother tried to sew the wound with a needle and thread and
sterilize the materials with eau de cologne. Ibrahim died some six hours after he was shot.

759. The group of over 70 persons remained in the house until 8 January in the afternoon,
when ICRC and PRCS representatives came to the neighbourhood and they managed to leave the
area and walk to Gaza City.

6. Factual findings

The Mission found the witnesses of the shooting of Ibrahim Juha to be credible and reliable.
It has no reason to doubt the veracity of their testimony.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

[shira]

73. Then why are you posting something entirely different now that the info. in your last post...

...was completely discredited?

In my last post to you, I showed you how irresponsible or incompetent Goldstone's team was WRT claiming there couldn't possibly be any military purpose for what the IDF did regarding the chicken coops.

Now, in another attempt to throw shit against the wall and hoping something will stick, you post something entirely different and then quote:

"The Mission found the witnesses of the shooting of Ibrahim Juha to be credible and reliable. It has no reason to doubt the veracity of their testimony."

Realize that what's credible and reliable to the Goldstone team would be neither credible or reliable to middle schoolers. Goldstone's team didn't doubt the veracity of this man's testimony either...

Goldstone Endorses Palestinian Witness Who Claimed Israel Distributed Aphrodisiac Gum
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2009/09/goldstone_endorses_palestinian.html

:eyes:

[Jefferson23]

74. .Discredited by you and your sources? The reader decides, not you nor me.

I'm adding what I believe people may wish to use as a reference.

The Abu Halima family case

The Mission interviewed three members of the Abu Halima family who were
eyewitnesses to the events described below.435 The Mission also spoke to the doctor who treated
some of the family members.436 The Mission reviewed a report by Physicians for Human Rights
– Israel and Palestinian Medical Relief Society which includes analysis by doctors who observed
the wounds of the surviving victims at the beginning of March 2009 and also has medical reports
confirming the injuries they suffered.437 Finally, the Mission reviewed information received from
TAWTHEQ.

On 3 and 4 January 2009, the initial days of the ground invasion, there was heavy aerial
bombardment and shelling by tanks of the open areas around Siyafa village, in al-Atatra

The Mission was not given any testimony about the presence of Palestinian combatants in Khuza’a at the time of
this incident. In fact, Khuza’a municipal officials expressly denied that there was any combatant activity in Khuza’a
at the time of the Israeli ground invasion, arguing that, Khuza’a and the surrounding fields being such an open area,
there was no place for fighters to take cover. These statements are contradicted by reports indicating that “about one
dozen fighters had directly engaged the IDF in Khuza’a. But these engagements appear to have been minimal, with
the fighters mostly retreating whenever the Israeli forces advanced.” (Human Rights Watch, Rain of Fire: Israel’s
Unlawful Use of White Phosphorous in Gaza (March 2009), pp. 53–54).

Mission interviews with Sabah Abu Halima (aged 45), Muhammad Sa’ad Abu Halima (aged 24), Omar Sa’ad
Abu Halima (aged 18), 15 June 2009.

Mission interview with Dr. Nafeez, the burns expert from al-Shifa hospital, 12 June 2009.

Physicians for Human Rights-Israel and Palestinian Medical Relief Society, “Final report: Independent factfinding
mission into violations of human rights in the Gaza Strip during the period 27.12.08–18.01.09”, pp. 51–55,
available at: http://www.phr.org.il/phr/files/articlefile_1241949935203.pdf


http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf


on edit for clarity.

[shira]

75. More "credible" eyewitness testimony? Like the Hamasnut claiming Israel distributed horny gum?

You know, that was the whackjob whose "credible" testimony Goldstone used to prove Israel killed 250 "humanitarian police officers" whom Hamas later admitted were terrorists.

Tells you all you need to know about the Goldstone Report.

Here it is again (a different source this time) for the "readers to decide"...

Goldstone report cites same Hamas witness who claims Israel distributes libido-increasing gum
http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2009/09/29/goldstone-report-cites-same-hamas-witness-who-claims-israel-distributes-libido-increasing-gum/

Are you sure you want to keep quoting from, quite frankly, an EXTREMELY EMBARASSING report Goldstone is now stepping away from?

[Jefferson23]

76. Correction, it tells YOU all you need to know, evidently.

The facts
. The hospital was the object of a significant attack on 16 April 2008. Tanks fired in and
around the hospital area, damaging a large number of patient rooms and causing significant
destruction of the building for rehabilitative care for the elderly. Hospital staff indicate there was
no armed presence inside the hospital at that time but cannot say whether there may have been a
presence outside.

. During the military operations, the hospital was attacked again. Despite media reports
that a warning had been given, hospital staff deny that any specific warning was received.
Leaflets had been dropped in the area with general indications that support of Hamas would be
punished. The hospital had also received a number of telephone warnings with recorded
messages but with no specific indication that the hospital itself would be the object of an attack,
much less with an indication of when that would occur. One doctor indicated that the hospital
had received around four such messages each day since 27 December 2008.

. On 5 January, the hospital was attacked with intensive artillery fire, including white
phosphorous shells. Senior doctors indicate that generic recorded telephone warnings were
actually received during the shelling. The latest warning the hospital received on 5 January was
at 4.30 p.m. Following this, at around 12.30-1 a.m. on 6 January, white phosphorous shells
landed in the area surrounding the administrative building and on its roof.

. The white phosphorous caused damage to the administrative building only, destroying
the roof.

. All three witnesses of the senior medical staff confirm absolutely that there was no
presence of any armed resistance inside the hospital. They are not able to confirm or deny the
presence of such elements outside of the hospital.

. The hospital was attacked again with artillery fire on 16 January 2009 at 2 a.m. No
specific warning was given. Again a general recorded message had been received saying that
people located in the border areas should leave and threatening punitive measures to those who
stayed. Again doctors confirm there was no armed presence inside the hospital but cannot say
what was occurring outside it.

. The attack damaged the building for elderly patients on the ground and third floors as
well as the roof. It damaged the third and fourth floors of the central hospital building.

. Doctors estimate that the tanks were as close as 70 metres from the hospital.

. The damage to the hospital (as a result of the two attacks) is estimated at US$ 550,000.

. As to why the hospital was the subject of these attacks, doctors speculate that its location
close to the border is one possible reason. Another relates to the rumour that Israel believes that

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf
Muhammad al-Deif, a well-known Hamas militant, is treated inside the hospital.

[shira]

77. Goldstone's star witness making batshit crazy claims about horny gum isn't humiliating enough 4 you?

Seriously?

[Jefferson23]

78. 4 u it is, that much is clear.

However, for others to read if they so decide:

The shelling in al-Fakhura Street by Israeli armed forces

In the afternoon of 6 January at least four mortar bombs fired by Israeli armed forces
exploded near the al-Fakhura junction in the al-Fakhura area of the Jabaliyah camp in northern
Gaza.380

. The Mission interviewed Mr. Muhammed Fouad Abu Askar on three occasions. His
brother and two sons were killed in the attack.381 It also met surviving members of the al-Deeb
380 Interviewees’ statements vary, asserting between four and six shells landed. The Mission saw for itself what it
assessed to be the effects of mortars that landed. The crater in the orchard beside the al-Deeb house may have been
caused by a mortar, but given the nature of the surroundings it is less easy to tell in terms of shrapnel patterns. The
Mission does not reject the possibility that more landed but was not able to inspect those sites or to come to a firm
view confirming the additional shells.

Mr. Abu Askar is a Hamas member. He also provided testimony at the public hearings in Gaza. He was detained
on the charge of being a member of Hamas in 1992. He is the Director-General for Religious Affairs (a voluntary
position) and is on the Dialogue Committee, organizing the pilgrimage to Mecca (Saudi Arabia). He is in charge of
family on two occasions.382 The Mission interviewed four men who had lost family members in
the attack, the Director of the UNRWA premises that were being used as a shelter for civilians
and a number of journalists who covered the story. In addition, the Mission has seen a number of
statements provided to organizations in Gaza in the form of affidavits. The Mission has also
considered to the degree possible the information available from Israeli sources on the
circumstances of the strike.

. The facts surrounding the Israeli armed forces’ mortar shelling

. On 5 January 2009 UNRWA had opened the elementary school on al-Fakhura Street to
provide shelter to civilians fleeing the areas where the Israeli armed forces had entered.
654. The Mission spoke on two occasions with the Director of the shelter about its
management. He said that about 90 per cent of those in the shelter had come from outside of
Jabaliyah camp, largely from the al-Atatra area. He explained that the shelter was guarded by
security staff at its entry points and that all people coming in were registered by name and
searched to ensure no weapons were being taken into the premises.

. UNRWA has confirmed to the Mission that the Israeli armed forces were fully aware that
the school was being used as a shelter from 5 January 2005. UNRWA materials indicate that
there were 1,368 people in the shelter at the time.

. About 16 hours prior to the shelling on the afternoon of 6 January 2009, Israeli armed
forces had already carried out at least one strike, destroying the house of Mr. Abu Askar. At
around 1.45 a.m. on 6 January 2009, Mr. Abu Askar received a personal telephone call from the
Israeli armed forces advising him that he should evacuate the house and everyone in it because it
was going to be destroyed by an air strike. The building housed not only his immediate family
but a large number of his extended family, about 40 in all. Mr. Abu Askar responded quickly,
evacuating not only his own extended family but also advising neighbours of the imminent
the Hamas Follow-Up Committee in North Gaza related to the settlement of disputes between Hamas and other
groups in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. He has a master’s degree in education and is currently pursuing a PhD
in the Syrian Arab Republic. He denies any involvement in armed militant activities.
Two of the members of the family also presented their testimony at the public hearings in Gaza.

. The survivors of the al-Deeb family confirm they were advised at this time by Mr. Abu
Askar of the call he had received.

. The house was struck by a missile from an F-16 according to Mr. Abu Askar about seven
minutes after the call was received. Several hours later, at around 6 a.m., he returned to the site
of the house with members of his family hoping to retrieve some items of furniture. There he
noticed that a number of other houses in the area also appeared to have been hit at some time in
the intervening four hours. In the course of that day Mr. Abu Askar and members of his family
took various steps to prepare the move of the family to rented accommodation nearby.

. Mr. Abu Askar was in the street at around 4 p.m., when several mortars landed. He
believes that there were about 150 people in the street at the time. The Director of the shelter
confirmed that the street outside the school was generally busy. It had become busier than usual
due to the large influx of people into the school looking for shelter. Some relatives were coming
to the school to visit those who had recently arrived and new people were arriving to seek
shelter, including with belongings on donkey carts.

. Witnesses indicate that all of the explosions were over within around two minutes. One
shell landed directly in the courtyard outside the al-Deeb house, where most of the family was
gathered. Surviving family members interviewed by the Mission explained that nine members of
the family were killed immediately. Ziyad Samir al-Deeb lost both legs as a result of the blast.383
Surviving family members and neighbours carried the dead and injured one after another to
hospital. Ambulances came, but most casualties were transported in private cars. Alaa Deeb, a
daughter of Mo’in Deeb, was taken to al-Shifa hospital and thereafter to Egypt, where she died
of her injuries. In total, 11 members of the family died, including four women and four girls.

. Apart from the shell that landed in the al-Deeb courtyard, three other shells landed in the
street outside. The total spread of the four mortars was a little over 100 metres. The Mission
cannot specify in which order the mortars fell, but proceeding southwards from the al-Deeb
house along al-Fakhura Street, the Mission saw the impact of another mortar, 45 metres away, a
third was seen a further 50 metres south and a fourth a further 10 metres south.
Ziyad al-Deeb testified before the Mission at the public hearings in Gaza along with his uncle.


The three other shells that the Mission could identify as having landed at different places
on al-Fakhura Street killed at least 24 people. The witnesses estimate that up to another 40 were
injured by the blasts.384 The Mission has not been able to verify those figures, but having
inspected the site and viewed the footage, it does not consider these numbers to be exaggerated.

. Among those killed immediately were two sons of Mr. Abu Askar, Imad, aged 13, and
Khaled Abu Askar, aged 19. Mr. Abu Askar’s brother Arafat was also killed.


. The Director of the UNRWA school shelter confirmed to the Mission that the blasts had
damaged the part of the school building facing onto al-Fakhura Street. Up to nine people were
injured. One boy of 16, who was sheltering in the school but was in the street at the time, was
killed. No one inside the school was killed. He confirmed that no shell had directly hit the United
Nations premises either inside or outside.

. Witnesses have described the scene of chaos and carnage caused by the bombs. They
indicate that people were ferried to hospitals in private cars because of the difficulties in reaching
ambulance services at the time, although some ambulances did arrive.

The Israeli position
. Contradictory accounts emerge from official Israeli statements. The initial position
accepted that Israeli forces had struck inside the UNRWA school, claiming to be in response to
Hamas fire. A later response accepted that Hamas had not been in the UNRWA school but had
allegedly fired from 80 metres away from the school. Finally, the Israeli Government claimed
that in fact Hamas operatives were launching mortars at Israeli armed forces for around one
hour, firing every few minutes until the Israeli armed forces identified them and returned fire,
killing a number of them.

On 6 January the Israeli armed forces posted the following statement on their website:
An initial inquiry by forces on operating in the area of the incident
indicates that a number of mortar shells were fired at IDF forces from
384 A number of reports put the total figure of deaths at 42 or 43, including the al-Deeb family deaths. The Mission
has not been able to contact all the relatives of those reported to have died.


http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

[shira]

79. LOL. Keep throwing shit against the wall, hoping someone buys into maybe one of the claims.

BTW, you think your sources still rule while mine suck?

Given Goldstone's star witness having less than zero credibility?

[Jefferson23]

80. The reader decides shira. n/t

[shira]

81. But I'm asking you for your opinion. What do U think about the testimony from Mr. Hornygum?

Do you have reason to doubt his credibility or the veracity of his claims?

Hint: Hamas admitted the 250 police officers were combatants, which proves he lied. Goldstone thought he was a credible witness and bought into everything he said.

Still think that what you're cutting and pasting is reliable, honest, and accurate?

An intentionally credulous Goldstone team accepting Hamas propaganda from batshit crazy conspiracy theorists isn't embarassing or humiliating enough for you?

Tell me, why don't you think Goldstone included in his report the equally credible testimony that Israel was distributing horny gum to Gaza's youth in an effort to corrupt them? Isn't that also a human rights violation? Maybe the UN should have convened a special meeting for that one?

:)

[Jefferson23]

82. I'm not interested in sharing my opinion with you. I have posted information I accept vs your

version. I post this for others, as previously mentioned to you.



HUMAN RIGHTS IN PALESTINE AND OTHER
OCCUPIED ARAB TERRITORIES
Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

[shira]

83. Figures. Have fun throwing more shit against the wall from ridiculous batshit crazy sources. n/t

[King_David]

61. Yes your views are clear to all of us

[King_David]

8. Heres a picture for you , you can even read the plaque

(if you read Arabic )


http://cifwatch.com/2011/04/10/what-the-guardian-wont-report-pa-honors-terrorist-responsible-for-2002-passover-massacre/

[JDPriestly]

3. Have you tried to find one?

[inademv]

17. Like religious arguments

The burden of proof isn't on me, it is on the person making the positive claim. Can't use a suspect source to support a questionable claim.

[shira]

19. See post #15 below (the PMW article)

And FYI, that source has been translating Arab media for years and never once has been shown to be inaccurate or dishonest in their reports.

[JDPriestly]

23. Do you expect the Palestinian Press to report that the PA or Hamas

are honoring Palestinian terrorists. And yes there are Palestinian terrorists.

Palestinian extremists started committing terror acts long ago. In the early 1980s, probably 1981, I traveled on the Jordaninan Airlines and had to undergo a security check because that airline feared an action by Palestinian terrorists.

I cannot forget it because my small children were traveling with me and the security guards ate some of the candy that friends handed my children as we boarded the plane. You just don't forget strange events like that. There were many other instances of Palestinian terror. Don't forget the terrorism at the Munich Olympics years ago.

[inademv]

24. No and I wouldn't take their word for it either

neither side is credible for stories about themselves or the other, it is all just propaganda to fuel the hatred.

[shira]

34. They do report it in the Arabic press. Not english Maan, Al Jazeera, etc.

There's news for western consumption and there's news for the locals.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[King_David]

7. Very Clever

:eyes:

[Kurska]

9. Excuse me, but what the fuck does that have to do with the article?

Unless you're just being deliberately childish.

[azurnoir]

10. article? it seems more a statement from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs

isn't Avigdor Lieberman Israel's Foreign Minister? This would be from his department

[Kurska]

40. Okay so what does it have to do with a news worthy statement? m/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

41. because there is no serious reporting - only blindly accepting a statement from the Israeli Foreign

Ministry - a ministry lead by the notoriously racist and extremist, Foreign Minister - Avigdor Lieberman. There is no effort whatsoever to try and establish any context to the story or effort to determine at what level such a decision was made or to ask the Palestinian Authority to respond. - Once again only the blind acceptance of a statement from the Israeli Foreign Ministry and this passes for reporting.

[shira]

43. PMW translated from the Arab press...

Never once has PMW been shown to falsify or misrepresent anything reported in the Arab press.

Try again.

[King_David]

44. The picture?

Ummmh : Photo shopped ?????????


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=349517&mesg_id=349532

:puke:

[shira]

45. No amount of irrefutable evidence will ever be good enough.

Somehow, some way the evidence will be twisted to prove just the opposite of whatever it supports.

[inademv]

48. Do you not know what an outside source is?

[shira]

51. The source is the PA official newspaper in the OP (in Arabic).

You think the story was fabricated by Israelis?

Seriously?

[King_David]

60. Theres always SOMETHING ELSE ,is there not?

Yes I agree with you that Avigdor Lieberman is racist and extremist ,almost as much as Helen Thomas.


Theres always SOMETHING ELSE ,is there not?


When Ahmadinejad spouted the worst antisemitism it was 'not true' only a mis-translation (and we know how that turned out)


When Helen Thomas spouted the worst antisemitism it was 'Zionist's' she was talking about or she was 'tricked into saying filthy nasty stuff by a Rabbi' (and we know how that turned out)


Now when the Palestinian Authority gives the family of the very worst type of mass murdering terrorist, a commemorative plaque it's because the political head of the ministry is ' a notoriously racist and extremist, Foreign Minister - Avigdor Lieberman'?

[inademv]

63. Helen Thomas is racist?

Because she doesn't believe in imperialist policies and the existence of a country CREATED by the United States on some fucking loopy religious grounds?

[King_David]

64. Nope . WRONG!!!!

Shes holds antisemitic views because she espouses the views that Jews control The Whithouse , Jews control Hollywood ,Jews control Wall street.

Not for any of the reasons that you posted.



(And which country did the United States create ? I think your lack of knowledge and ovious bias is showing)

[inademv]

65. So for some reason you can read the mind of Helen Thomas

better than I can? Or do you have ANY sources to back up your claim?

Additionally, one can be anti-zionist without being anti-semetic.

[King_David]

69. Nah don't feel like going through this again

You probably "think" its a mistranslation or something.

I think most people know what you really mean .

;)

[LeftishBrit]

84. One can be anti-Zionist without being antisemitic...

E.g. consistent anti-nationalists, and some ultra-Orthodox Jews who do not think that Israel should have been created before the coming of the Messiah. Being anti-Zionist while supporting all other forms of nationalism is, however, difficult without being antisemitic.

However, one cannot think that Jews control the White House and Hollywood without being antisemitic, or at least influenced by antisemites.

[LeftishBrit]

85. Israel was not created by the United States, and certainly not on religious grounds

Also, one thing omitted here is also that MANY former British (and slightly later, other Europaean) colonies became independent states, sometimes with disputed boundaries, shortly after WW2. Would you say for example that you don't believe in the existence of India or Pakistan, because the Partition of these countries was carried out by former colonizers, and resulted in major conflict?

[inademv]

86. My point of view on it is

that the colonialism should have damn well ended when FDR said it was done with in WW2. The fact that the US went in after him and supported the establishment of Israel and proceeded to support its colonialist expansion is an indelible stain on the US historical record rivaling the slaughter of the Native Americans. I don't have the grounds to speak for the establishment or expansion of those other countries as they weren't carried out by the United States, but as a citizen of the United States I feel I am more justified than a bystander country citizen in speaking out against the crimes that have been committed by this country.

But that is not a reality that can be undone. Israel was established and exists now. There are native born Israelis and given that fact the preferable solution is to maintain the status quo. This is not the view of the Israeli government however, evidenced by their continued expansion into Palestinian territory.

[King_David]

87. WTF your answer has to do with what you said??????????

''a country CREATED by the United States on some fucking loopy religious grounds?''

Your all over the map her with your limited knowledge and hige bias.


:wtf:

[shira]

15. PA honors terrorist serving 30 life sentences for Passover murders

PA minister visits family of terrorist who planned Passover Seder bombing that killed 30 Israelis

by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook

The Palestinian Authority Minister of Prisoners' Affairs, Issa Karake, visited the family of the terrorist Abbas Al-Sayid who planned the Passover suicide bombing in 2002. Thirty Israelis were killed in the terror attack, when a suicide bomber entered a hotel in Netanya and detonated his bomb during the Passover Seder dinner. Al-Sayid is serving 30 life sentences for planning this attack.

Palestinian Media Watch has reported that honoring terrorists is an integral part of PA policy.

The photo in the PA daily shows the PA minister handing the family an honorary plaque from the PA. Terrorist Al-Sayid's name and the PA logo are visible on the plaque. (In the photo the rest of the print is too small to read.)

"Minister of Prisoners' Affairs, Issa Karake, and a delegation from the Ministry of Prisoners' Affairs visited the home of prisoner Abbas Al-Sayid in Tulkarem. Al-Sayid has maintained an unlimited hunger strike for the past 21 days, and has been transferred from solitary confinement at the Ramon prison to solitary confinement at the Israeli hospital in Ramle. Karake warned of the severity of prisoner Al-Sayid's condition, following a deterioration of his health in the wake of the strike. He placed the responsibility for life and health upon the Israeli government and the prison administration, and called for a response to the demands for an end to his solitary confinement, which has continued for over six months, in difficult conditions."
Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, March 29, 2011

http://palwatch.org/site/modules/print/preview.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=4849

[cderoose]

88. Blessed the souls of whom that understand our goal.MTKeshe

"This link was orginaly posted yesterday in the Japan
link and we have been asked to move it on to its own
independent link"


The Keshe Foundation in developing protection systems for the
space excursion of the future, over years has had to develop a
more sophisticated shielding technology, which these have
become part of the defence shielding and strike capabilities
of the systems. 

In space one can not dive and duck from meteoroids and
asteroids once one is travelling with speeds above or even
below speed of light, and present missile technology are
useless as they reach the target while you have passed it
years back.

Thus; we had to develop a complete technology, where we can
protect the craft at high speeds and in understanding the
universal magnetic fields and strength of principal magnetic
fields, I have developed systems that can strike energy above
any maintained speed that at any speed that one can have a
full capability for example to destroy asteroid on the path of
motion of the craft, or in other case to increase the boundary
of auxiliary external plasma fields of the craft to be able to
travel in meteoroid showers, space dust or high magnetic
fields zones in the universe with safety.

The Keshe Foundation knowledge and technology is set to be
applicable for hundreds of years to come in space technology
and we are not a simple Foundation present technology, we plan
a full space colonisation and we are on course to achieve our
goal, and hence we plan for every eventuality for food,
motion, energy, health, material and defence of our systems
and its passengers.

We are here to change the course of humanity behaviour and
travel, and one of these is the change of mind in respect to
war.

Our weapon technology to defend our systems in all
environments in the universe are so advanced that some times I
am frighten by what has been developed, but these are
necessary as you cannot leave the life of people in space to
chances.

But at the same time as we are using our technology to help
with MS and so forth, similarly and at the same time I am
completing the most sophisticated defence technology systems
for any foreseen eventuality in space.

Our knowledge transfer is total and in time will be
understood.

The field protection and strike plasma technology of our
systems have already been primarily tested, thus when you can
travel with speeds of thousands of times faster than speed of
sound and speeds of light with internal gravitational filed
force of one in your craft, then the present nuclear missiles
technology with speeds of 3000 -4000 km per hours become child
play and obsolete compared to our plasma technology speeds.

When, you can span dynamic magnetic fields of the craft beyond
the boundary of the craft by several hundreds of meters, the
system with its dynamic magnetic fields, which can be pointed
in any direction, with pin point accuracy using your reactors,
then the dynamic magnetic shielding of the craft makes the
possibility of ever been attacked and penetration by any
missile impossible. Thus we have already made the present
weapon technology useless anyway as I have said to the head of
the Lockheed strike division some years ago in UK.

By release of our space technology as the weapon technology
and making it available to all nations, then no one has
superiority over the others and then they all know there is no
money in annihilation of each other, hence the peace will come
not out of the need, but out of the fear of destruction, hence
peace, as has been seen in the rest of the universe.

I am not here to play games, but to change the fundamental
course of humanity on bases of peace and equality, we are
equal irrespective of what banner we call and cover ourselves
under, Iranian, Dutch American or Chinese, we are all human
and man has lost respect for his fellow men.

By making the ultimate knowledge available to all, we make
sure in the future no one can abuse others or hold them to
ransom for food or protection, thus all men will be equal and
hence in time, when one can have everything one needs, then
there will be no need for war, and that will be the point of
maturity of the man, and that will be the time when we can
take excursion into space and have the same behaviour as the
rest of beings in the universe.

The extent of knowledge in the universe is beyond the
comprehension of present man, so if these man of war think
they can succeed with a few matchsticks of unclear weapons,
then the presidents of so called free world have a lot coming
to them. 

At the same time we can not leave to any chances that man
enters into space as an inferior race, thus our knowledge
transfer will be complete that in time we will be equal to
others in space in knowledge, behaviour and excellence.

We have to teach and live by the banner of world peace first,
then once we travel to space we can live under the banner of
universal peace as has been accustom in the universe up to
now.

Blessed the souls of whom that understand our goal.MTKeshe 
  
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