Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jewish Defense League holds protest at Pride Toronto

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:17 PM
Original message
Jewish Defense League holds protest at Pride Toronto
'We'll be back, fags': JDL member

<snip>

"By the end of the protest at the offices of Pride Toronto (PT) on April 15, members of the Jewish Defense League of Canada (JDL) were throwing anti-gay slurs like “fag” at a small, mostly silent group of rainbow flag-waving gay people.

On one side of the street were about 20 JDL supporters with Israeli and Canadian flags and signs with statements like “Palestine is a disease, a plague.” On the other side were about 12 PT supporters, smiling and trying not to be drawn into the JDL debate. “We’re protecting ourselves against fascist, racist homophobes,” said queer activist Ashleigh Ingle when asked about the fracas by a pedestrian.

“Go be gay in Saudi Arabia,” one JDL protestor shouted. Others chanted, “We love Rob Ford. Get it straight.”

JDL is an international organization dedicated to "protect Jews from anti-Semitism by whatever means necessary." It has chapters in several US states, Canada, South Africa and a few European countries. The US Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) describes the JDL as “a rightwing terrorist group” and says it has been involved in plotting terrorist attacks in the US. There is nothing to suggest that is true of the Canadian chapter.

The Toronto protest was a response to the April 12 city manager’s report that states, "City staff have determined that the phrase ‘Israeli apartheid’ in and of itself does not violate the city’s anti-discrimination policy.” The JDL is calling on the city to strip PT funding if it does not "denounce" Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA)."

http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Jewish_Defense_League_holds_protest_at_Pride_Toronto-10031.aspx
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, they got 20 people to show up
That JDL is a real powerhouse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. To their credit, the JDL apologized for the offensive comments...
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 02:53 PM by shira
IMPORTANT – Apology by JDL
April 17, 2011
IMPORTANT IMPORTANT:
SOMEONE AT THE LAST JDL PROTEST MADE A NEGATIVE ANTI GAY REMARK. SUCH CONDUCT WILL NEVER BE TOLERATED. ANYONE THAT WAS OFFENDED BY SUCH A REMARK, THE JDL APOLOGIZES AND WILL NOT TOLERATE ANYONE THAT MAKES SUCH REMARKS AT FUTURE EVENTS.


I didn't know the JDL was still active.

At least they apologized for that. The "Move over AIPAC" extremists are deliberately having an antisemite make a keynote speech.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. lol n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Nutters on both sides are ridiculous. Pride Toronto is just as bad with their BDS, apartheid... n/t
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 02:54 PM by shira
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. excuse me? You think that Pride Toronton is just as bad as the sick hate mongering
fuckwads of the JDL. That says it all when it comes to YOU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Yeah, they're for BDS and the eventual destruction of Israel after full RoR...
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 01:57 PM by shira
It's pretty fucking bad to argue Israel has no right to exist.

That's the HAMAS/PLO position.

=========

Here's more on the antisemitism of the BDS movement...
http://engageonline.wordpress.com/2010/10/24/antisemitism-and-the-boycott-david-hirsh-responds-to-ran-greenstein/

You've gotta like the bit about using David Duke tracts...

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Where is the link for this?
If you could please post the link, thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Try Googling
I would think that a link to a JDL site would not be permitted here, but it's pretty easy to find if you do a search on the relevant terms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I thought it pertinent given that we seem to be reading
on this post some kind of mealy-mouthed, conditional defence of the Jewish Defence League.

In any event, I found the quote on this website:-

http://www.blogwrath.com/canada-anti-semitism/jdl-canada-confronts-jew-hatred-at-pride-toronto-headquarters/1148/

I must say I am intrigued by what biker-boy's poster says underneath the piece of paper that has been stuck to it. I can read "motherfuckers, arabs, kill" but I wonder what the large font word below is, next to "kill".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. sounds like the
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 11:10 PM by azurnoir
'Hasbara Hotline' was all a glow, can't be going 'off message' in such a bold manner

This last quote from Meir Weinstein on your link was interesting

That should serve as a warning to the Gay Pride parade organizers – people are not fools, they are watching you. No matter how you twist the truth, including hateful groups in your event under the “free speech” disguise is not going to bring you any new supporters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Good to see the JDL is becoming respectable these days though...
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 12:50 AM by shaayecanaan
it seems Mr Weinstein also played host to the English Defence League earlier this year...

http://jdlcanada.wordpress.com/2011/01/02/jdl-supports-the-edl/

truly a match made in heaven.

They've found some friends in high places too. Pamela Geller is on record as supporting the English Defence League:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Geller

Caroline Glick (deputy editor of the Jerusalem Post) is quite sympathetic to Geller.

Incidentally Glick was in Toronto as well at the same time Mr Weinstein was showing the gays what a responsible statesman he was. She gave a fairly bolshie speech to a modern orthodox congregation there:-

http://tundratabloids.com/2011/04/caroline-glick-2.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. strange 'bedfellows' JDL & EDL
Ms Glick and Ms Geller are cut from the same cloth however but what I liked was the side bar with Debbie Schlussel's plea for donations to her legal fund
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Playing host to the EDL does not make you respectable!
Right-wing xenophobic nuts; they deserve each other. But we don't deserve any of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Irony - its not just a river in Egypt (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. It's also pretty easy to make claims as to what is said on a site
that can not be linked to on DU
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. It's on their Canadian blog. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Jewish Defence League likens gays to Nazis
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It's because they're BDS'ers, not gays. Nazis boycotted Jews too.
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 05:24 PM by shira
The JDL nutters are bad enough as it is. No sense making them appear worse than they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Of course they're extremists, ugly, haters....
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 06:09 PM by shira
But so are advocates for BDS.

The BDS movement is clear that even if Israel pulls back to 1949 borders, BDS will continue until there's full RoR and one state. This would lead to war, as it did prior to 1949.

Both groups are equally hateful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. bullshit.
That's absurd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. A teachable moment. The antisemitism that is infested within the BDS movement...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. And here's J-Street on BDS...
http://jstreet.org/policy/issues/the-boycott-divestment-sanctions-movement/

J Street strongly opposes views and positions such as those captured at the Palestinian BDS National Committee’s website, www.bdsmovement.net, because, among other reasons, they fail explicitly to recognize Israel’s right to exist and they ignore or reject Israel’s role as a national home for the Jewish people. In addition, the promotion by some in the BDS Movement of the return to Israel of Palestinian refugees from 1948 and their families indicates support for an outcome incompatible with our vision of Israel and incompatible with a two-state solution to the conflict.

For some, the BDS movement has become a convenient mantle for thinly disguised anti-Semitism. While concern about the present and future of the Palestinian people is both legitimate and warranted, these concerns do not justify for categorically delegitimizing and demonizing another people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
40. Yeah, but you kind of get numb to it after a while...(nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Yeah, explain to us how the BDS'ers really aren't so bad...
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 07:07 AM by shira
In denying Israel's right to exist and preferring its leadership is replaced by Hamas, the BDS'ers prove all they want is peace and human rights for all. Jews would fare well under Hamas.

Is that how it goes?

:eyes:

I think the very liberal, pro-peace Hezbollah newspaper al-Manar explains it like that, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. No. Both groups are wrong, but not 'equally hateful'.
BDS (which I oppose) is not the same thing as the sort of violent activities which the JDL have backed.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. BDS is for the destruction of Israel and against a peaceful 2 state solution.
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 02:42 PM by shira
Taking the Hamas/PLO position WRT Israel having no right to exist is easily as hateful and warmongering as any other position.

What do you make of David Hirsch on the BDS movement?
http://engageonline.wordpress.com/2010/10/24/antisemitism-and-the-boycott-david-hirsh-responds-to-ran-greenstein/

Here's J-Street on BDS...


J Street strongly opposes views and positions such as those captured at the Palestinian BDS National Committee’s website, www.bdsmovement.net, because, among other reasons, they fail explicitly to recognize Israel’s right to exist and they ignore or reject Israel’s role as a national home for the Jewish people. In addition, the promotion by some in the BDS Movement of the return to Israel of Palestinian refugees from 1948 and their families indicates support for an outcome incompatible with our vision of Israel and incompatible with a two-state solution to the conflict.

For some, the BDS movement has become a convenient mantle for thinly disguised anti-Semitism. While concern about the present and future of the Palestinian people is both legitimate and warranted, these concerns do not justify for categorically delegitimizing and demonizing another people.

http://jstreet.org/policy/issues/the-boycott-divestment-sanctions-movement/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. “During the Nazi era, many high-ranking Nazis were gay,”
Im not sure what other spin you can put on that sentence, honestly. 18 hours ago, you claimed that you had no idea the JDL were active in Toronto, now presumably you can claim intimate knowledge of what motivates them?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Meir Wenstein (head of JDL Canada apologised)
JDL Apology
IMPORTANT – Apology by JDL « Jewish Defence League Canada wp.me IMPORTANT IMPORTANT: SOMEONE AT THE LAST JDL PROTEST MADE A NEGATIVE ANTI GAY REMARK. SUCH CONDUCT WILL NEVER BE TOLERATED. ANYONE THAT WAS OFFENDED BY SUCH A REMARK, THE JDL APOLOGIZES AND WILL NOT TOLERATE ANYONE THAT MAKES SUCH REMARKS AT FUTURE EVENTS. .
Meir Weinstein, Toronto Ontario
04/17/11 2:30 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.


Thank you for the apology!
Mr Weinstein I attended the rally last Friday part as an observer, part to protect an organisation that I love and know has the potential to provide a place for all differences of expression. There are always fringe members in every group, as you apologized for in your note. I wonder if that courtesy can be extended to Pride. Prides purpose is much broader then the JDLs and I am sure you now understand that not everyone speaks for the organisation as a whole. Based on my observations of the rally, homophobia runs deep in your organisation, and it was very thinly veiled. I was greeted by a lady in your group " Look at all the pretty homosexuals", considering the reality I should take that as a complement..
Mark Smith former PT board Member, Toronto ON
04/18/11 12:39 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.


http://www.xtra.ca/public/Toronto/Jewish_Defense_League_holds_protest_at_Pride_Toronto-10031.aspx


Meir Weinstein also marched in last years pride parade draped in a rainbow flag.

QuAIA are the bigots here .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You don't believe that the Jewish Defence League are bigots? (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I never said that .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. What would you say, exactly? (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I would say that it was one extremist group protesting another extremist group
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Well done (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. oh ugh. now you're defending the JDL?
and yes, that's exactly what you're doing. sickening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Not at all. As much as I can't stand Hamas, I don't see the point of making shit up about them.
Same goes for JDL and other warmongering, hateful institutions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. OK, but the JDL have done a lot more than make this one offensive comment
Members of the group have been linked to murders and terrorist attacks, for which the JDL has expressed sympathy. They have links with extremist groups elsewhere, such as the EDL. They are regarded as terrorists by the American government, and related groups within Israel are proscribed as terrorists by the Israeli government.

A pretty nasty organization - and they didn't suddenly become so when they made this one remark.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Agreed - they're an abhorrent, racist, warmongering organization. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. But probably good enough for a postage stamp right? (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Again with this argument / moral relativism?
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 08:19 PM by shira
Upon further review, it appears Israel discontinued the stamps shortly after they were first manufactured - within 1-2 years. Apparently, more intelligent minds prevailed and convinced whoever was in charge to discontinue making the stamps.

If only the PA and Hamas would do that and rather than deliberately incite, teach tolerance.

Now is that really the worst example you can find trying to equate Israel to Hamas/PLO?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Bullshit...
generally, a series of postage stamps are only issued for a year or so. Then they make postage stamps with something else on them. Birds today, bunny rabbits tomorrow. Or terrorists, if the boot fits.

Do you honestly think that you would refrain from criticising the Palestinians for issuing a set of postage stamps with their terrorists on them for only "a year or two"?

This entire thread is testament to your complete inability to match honesty and sincerity in the same sentence.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Your absurd moral relativism is bullshit.
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 06:32 AM by shira
Do you honestly think that you would refrain from criticising the Palestinians for issuing a set of postage stamps with their terrorists on them for only "a year or two"?

Yes. Especially if instead of incitement to deliberately kill old people at Passover seders and children in schools, the Palestinians made it policy to teach tolerance and cooperation with all Israelis. You know, like Israel does?

This entire thread is testament to your complete inability to match honesty and sincerity in the same sentence.

Projecting again?

Hey - why don't you tell me again how the PA is a partner for peace based on those Palestine Papers? Tell us all about that great peace package they put together that Olmert rejected. Let's talk honesty and sincerity, shall we?


:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. So now you don't actually object to terrorists being put on postage stamps?
Quite extraordinary. Presumably, you don't object to streets being named after terrorists either, seeing as Israel does this as well:-

"In the early 1970s, the status of Olei Hagardom changed again, when streets throughout the country began to be named for them. The most prominent instance is in Jerusalem's Armon Hanatziv neighborhood, which was built after the area was captured in the Six-Day War. In a gesture of "historic vengeance," its main street in the neighborhood, not far from the mansion in which the British high commissioner lived during the Mandate, was called Olei Hagardom. Other streets were named for individual prisoners, including Feinstein and Barazani."

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/the-good-jailer-1.217549


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I do object. It's wrong. Good thing Israel isn't like the PA, right? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. So you now object to Israel commemorating terrorists?
Good to see. It did take rather a long time, but its good to see arrive at that conclusion eventually.

Given that you now admit that both Israel and the Palestinians commemorate terrorists, would you agree that commemoration of terrorists by either the Israelis or Palestinians should not be used as an excuse to impede a peace agreement and the withdrawal of Israel from the West Bank?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Always, but equating Israel with the PA/Hamas is obscene as you well know.
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 06:47 AM by shira
Israel has never commemorated terrorists within the framework of inciting others to do the same, or worse.

Meanwhile the PA does that currently and is considered a 'moderate' peace partner.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Thank you for another illuminating exchange...
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 07:58 AM by shaayecanaan
I`m sure that you will keep believing that there is a categorical difference between Jewish racism/terrorism and Arab racism/terrorism. But we continue to make progress.

"Israel has never commemorated terrorists within the framework of inciting others to do the same, or worse."

If the British were still in Palestine, I imagine there would still be a roaring trade in Jewish terrorism. Of course, Israel doesn`t need terrorism now that it has an Army, and by the same token, I`m sure Hamas would much rather have F-16s than explosive vests if given the choice. That Israel battles the Palestinians with an Army instead of terrorists is not virtue; it is mere convenience.







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. More disingenuous moral relativism...
Edited on Thu Apr-21-11 08:16 AM by shira
"Of course, Israel doesn`t need terrorism now that it has an Army, and by the same token, I`m sure Hamas would much rather have F-16s than explosive vests if given the choice."

If Hamas or the PA had an army, like Egypt, Syria, etc..., they'd still deliberately target civilians, including their own.

Meanwhile, the IDF goes to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties - the opposite of terrorism and incitement to terrorism.

Keep trying!!!

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-21-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. re
"If Hamas or the PA had an army, like Egypt, Syria, etc..., they'd still deliberately target civilians, including their own."

Yes, I'd imagine those Arabs would eat their own babies, if only they had a fork.

Have a lovely day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-22-11 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. You said it yourself - take the Syrian military for example.
Edited on Fri Apr-22-11 07:41 AM by shira
You admitted they're atrocious.

What makes you believe Hamas or the PLO would be more civil?

If Hamas and the PLO can still keep Palestinians locked up in cages after 60 years and use them as human shields in an effort to maximize casualties, what makes you believe that with superior weapons they wouldn't use them against those who differ from them politically or religiously?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. LOL; good point.
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 11:58 AM by LeftishBrit
Maybe the BNP and EDL will get down to similar figures!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. Southern Poverty Law Center: on the Jewish Defense League (JDL)
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 02:25 PM by Douglas Carpenter

Jewish Defense League (JDL)



Founded:
1968
Location:
New York, NY
Leadership:
Shelley Rubin

The Jewish Defense League (JDL) is a radical organization that preaches a violent form of anti-Arab, Jewish nationalism. Its late founder, Rabbi Meir Kahane, claimed that Jews face fierce anti-Semitism domestically and abroad and must protect themselves by any means necessary. The JDL's position with regard to Israel is denial of any Palestinian claims to land and the calling for the removal of all Arabs from the "Jewish-inherited soil." The group has orchestrated countless terrorist attacks in the U.S. and abroad, and has engaged in intense harassment of foreign diplomats, Muslims, Jewish scholars and community leaders, and officials.

In Its Own Words
"To turn the other cheek is not a Jewish concept. Do not listen to the soothing anesthesia of the establishment. They walk in the paths of those whose timidity helped bury our brothers and sisters less than thirty years ago."
—Rabbi Meir Kahane, Jewish Defense League founder

"In the end — with few exceptions — the Jew can look to no one but another Jew for help and … the true solution to the Jewish problem is the liquidation of the Exile and the return of all Jews to Eretz Yisroel — the land of Israel."
— Jewish Defense League's "Five Principles"

"It was the lack of discipline and Jewish unity that led continually to the destruction of the Jewish people. It is Jewish unity and self-discipline that will lead to the triumph of the Jewish people."
— Jewish Defense League's "Five Principles"

Background

The Jewish Defense League was founded in 1968 by Rabbi Meir Kahane (born Martin Kahane). Its inception was part of the white backlash surrounding the New York City teachers' union strikes of 1968. The strikes brought to the surface racial tension between the predominantly Jewish teachers union, and black residents who were seeking greater control over their neighborhood schools. This, coupled with black demands for more civil service jobs, stirred the already hostile racial climate in Manhattan's neighborhoods and led working-class Jews in the outer boroughs to join the JDL. Kahane, who then wrote for The Jewish Weekly, an Orthodox periodical, flooded the tabloids with stories of blacks and Puerto Ricans terrorizing Jews in Manhattan. He dispatched JDL units to "patrol" predominantly Jewish areas, which ultimately led to an ethnic polarization of neighborhoods.

By 1970, however, the JDL had changed its primary cause to the plight of Soviet Jews. From that point on, the main objective of the JDL was to terrorize Soviet establishments in the U.S. to influence the communist nation to change its anti-Semitic policies — specifically, its ban on emigration to Israel. The terrorism become so severe that President Richard Nixon feared JDL activity would threaten the Strategic Arms Limitations Treaty (SALT) II negotiations with the Soviet Union. In 1970 alone, the JDL committed five acts of terrorism, taking over the East Park Synagogue in Manhattan twice, in May and in November, to protest the Soviet U.N. Mission across the street. Throughout the 1970s and '80s, JDL members did everything from pouring blood over the head of a Soviet diplomat at a reception in Washington, D.C., to planting a smoke bomb in a Carnegie Hall performance of a Soviet orchestra. With each incident, the JDL claimed responsibility by phoning in its official slogan, in reference to the Holocaust, "Never again!"

Members of the Jewish community in Moscow, however, made clear that they did not appreciate the JDL's efforts in the U.S., which were made allegedly on their behalf. In a New York Times article headlined "Anti-Soviet Violence Here Upsets Jews in Moscow," Soviet Jews publicly made their case against the JDL. "A number of Jewish activists refused permission to emigrate … feel that harassment in New York hurts their cause and may give Soviet authorities an excuse to become even more intransigent," the newspaper reported.

Though Soviets were their main victims, the JDL has targeted anyone it considers a threat to the survival of radical Jewish nationalism. This includes U.S. and foreign diplomats, domestic radical-right organizations, Arab and Muslim activists, journalists and scholars, and Jewish community members who are simply not "Jewish enough." In 1975, six JDL members forced their way into the office of the executive vice president of the San Francisco Jewish Welfare Foundation and assaulted four staff members, including one who had been crippled from time spent in a concentration camp. The break-in was to protest the "slow response" of the federation to community needs of Jews in San Francisco.

The following year, JDL members began targeting diplomats of all nations who had voted for a U.N. resolution equating Zionism with racism. Three members were charged with invading and vandalizing the Mexican consulate in Philadelphia, and were later convicted of obstructing foreign officials and their duties, damaging property of a foreign government, and conspiracy.

The JDL also pitted its radical agenda against that of Nazis. In 1981, 20 members of the JDL took over the offices of the American Civil Liberties Union in Atlanta to protest its representation of neo-Nazis in court. Later that year, eight members attacked National Socialist Party of America leader Harold Covington with steel pipes as he approached NBC studios in New York, which led Covington to state, later that evening on the "Tomorrow" show, that "all Jews should be gassed." Earlier that year, the JDL had terrorized Boleslavs Maikovskis, an accused Nazi war criminal. A representative from the JDL took responsibility for throwing four gasoline firebombs into the Latvian ex-Nazi's home in Mineola, N.Y.

The JDL has experienced waves of internal strife throughout its years of operation, first of all with Kahane's emigration to Israel in 1971. Kahane's successor, David Fisch, was a Columbia University student who could not maintain unity in the early years. Kahane returned to the U.S. in 1974 to name Russel Kelner international chairman. Kelner was a former U.S. Army lieutenant, trained in guerilla warfare and ready to direct the JDL's paramilitary camp. In 1990, an Egyptian-born Islamic extremist, El Sayyid Nosair, assassinated Kahane during a Zionist conference in New York City, again throwing the group into disarray.

The JDL got some unwelcome international attention in 1994, when Baruch Goldstein, a JDL member, massacred 29 Palestinian Muslims kneeling in prayer at a mosque in the West Bank city of Hebron. The JDL's website justifies Goldstein's mass murder by saying "Goldstein took a preventative measure against yet another Arab attack on Jews."

In 2002, then-JDL Chairman Irv Rubin was jailed while awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy in planning bomb attacks against the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, Calif., and on the office of Arab-American Congressman Darrell Issa. Rubin slit his throat with a prison-issued safety razor, and fell or jumped off a balcony, sustaining injuries that led to his death several days later. Rubin's co-defendant in the case, Earl Krugel, met a similar fate in 2005 in a Phoenix prison when another inmate, reportedly, swung a bag containing a cinderblock into the back of Krugel's head, killing him. Krugel was murdered less than two months after being sentenced as part of a plea bargain.

In 2003, the Rubin family filed a wrongful death suit, citing allegedly suspicious circumstances. Upon the death of Rubin, Shelley Rubin, Irv's widow, named Bill Maniaci temporary leader of the JDL. In 2004, Rubin called for Maniaci to resign. When he refused, he was stripped of his title and membership, taking a large portion of the organization with him. After a lengthy legal battle over the JDL's intellectual property and website, Shelley Rubin won the title of permanent chairman and CEO of the JDL.

In 2009, never-before-seen FBI documents concerning Rubin's alleged confession and details about his death were published by the online news site TheEnterpriseReport.com.

The JDL today has chapters in Eastern Europe, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Russia, and the United Kingdom, in addition to those in the U.S. The FBI deemed the league a right-wing terrorist group in their report "Terrorism 2000/2001." The JDL continues to wield steady membership through its website and blog, which distort news stories in order to vilify politicians, academics, and community leaders as "anti-Semitic." One such recent attack was entitled "Carter the Jew Hater," and attacked the former president's book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/jewish-defense-league

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC