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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 10:50 PM
Original message
Outrage on CUNY Vote to Shelve Playwright’s Award
<snip>

"Trying to stem a spiraling controversy, the Board of Trustees of the City University of New York issued a statement on Thursday that its decision to block an honorary degree for the playwright Tony Kushner "should not be interpreted as reflecting on Mr. Kushner’s accomplishments."

But the statement fell short of an apology, which is what Mr. Kushner called for after Jeffrey S. Wiesenfeld, a trustee, claimed that he held deeply anti-Israel views. Mr. Wiesenfeld’s words, at a board meeting on Monday, set in motion a vote by the trustees to shelve the honor.

Mr. Kushner, the Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright of “Angels in America,” had not been told that the matter would be debated and had no opportunity to defend himself. He said Mr. Wiesenfeld had distorted his views.

CUNY’s statement also appeared unlikely to quell the mounting criticism from intellectual and artistic circles that has erupted. Former Mayor Edward I. Koch, an outspoken supporter of Israel who is receiving an honorary degree from CUNY, called on Thursday for the board to grant Mr. Kushner the degree and for Mr. Wiesenfeld to resign, saying he had abused his power."

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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is outrageous. Kushner is a great writer
He is a brilliant man, and far too human to be anti-anyone. CUNY should be falling over backward to make amends for this small minded slander. For what it is worth, I am thankful for Kushner's work.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-11 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wiesenfeld's a piece of work.
snip* Mr. Kushner was not present, and fragments of his views — which are complicated, passionate, critical — were balled up into a few pellets by Mr. Wiesenfeld, who gave a 900-word speech that was mostly devoted to other figures who he felt were radically hostile to Israel. He quoted about 75 words that he said showed that Mr. Kushner’s thinking was beyond the pale.

The trustees pulled the playwright’s name from the motion and moved on to wholesale rubber-stamping of the remaining honorary degrees.


snip* I tried to ask a question about the damage done by a short, one-sided discussion of vigorously debated aspects of Middle East politics, like the survival of Israel and the rights of the Palestinians, and which side was more callous toward human life, and who was most protective of it.

But Mr. Wiesenfeld interrupted and said the question was offensive because “the comparison sets up a moral equivalence.”

Equivalence between what and what? “Between the Palestinians and Israelis,” he said. “People who worship death for their children are not human.”

Did he mean the Palestinians were not human? “They have developed a culture which is unprecedented in human history,” he said.

But is there no reason to hear from Tony Kushner, or have a more thorough airing of his views? “Tell you what,” Mr. Wiesenfeld said. “Your question tells me — and I am saying this not to insult you — tells me that you don’t know” what you are talking about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/nyregion/opponent-of-honor-for-tony-kushner-criticizes-palestinians.html



snip* What They Say the Fight's About: Wiesenfeld does't believe the University should honor someone with anti-Israel views. Kushner insists that the quotes Wiesenfeld used as evidence of his anti-Israel position were taken out of context and don't reflect his actual opinion.

What the Fight's Really About: If we are to take Kushner at his word, this fight exemplifies how difficult it is to filter out the truth from the influx of rumors provided by the Internet. Wiesenfeld may have Internet-provided proof of Kushner's loyalties but only Kushner himself knows what his opinion really is. It's his word against the Internet which, we know, can be an uphill battle. Additionally, this fight taps into a larger, ongoing debate over whether it is okay to be anti-Israel, what being anti-Israel means, and why one can be effectively discriminated against over Israel but, usually, not over any other political beliefs one holds. Have a look at how The Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg weighs in on the Kushner matter:

Kushner is critical of Israel, yes, and I don't think he actually understands much about the Middle East, but I'm not sure this is the business of the City University of New York...I think his discomfort with Jewish power is mainly misplaced, but turning him into a free-speech martyr? Is that what a handful of Jews want to do with their political power? In any case, if those Jews on the right are trying to marginalize his opinions, this is certainly not the way to do it.

Who's Winning Now: Kushner's chances of changing the board's mind seem slim. The Observer explains that "The CUNY board did not so much reject John Jay College's decision to award Kushner an honorary degree, but tabled the discussion until the next board meeting. Because the board does not meet again until after the school year, they have effectively denied Kushner the degree." But even if they did decide to reconsider, Kushner has "no intention of ever accepting an award from CUNY," he told the paper.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110505/en_atlantic/tonykushnervscityuniversitynewyork37375_1



Evidently, Wiesenfeld attempted to assign proof of anti Israel views to Kushner via Norman, lol.

snip* I can't adequately describe my dismay at the fact that none of you felt stirred enough by ordinary fairness to demand of one of your members that, if he was going to mount a vicious attack, he ought to adhere to standards higher than those of internet gossip. Mr. Weisenfeld declared to you that, rather than turn to "pro-Israel" websites, he'd gleaned his insights into my politics from the website of Norman Finkelstein. I find it appalling that he failed to consider a third option: familiarizing himself with any of the work I've done, my plays, screenplays, essays and speeches, for which, I assume, the faculty and administration of John Jay nominated me for an honor.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/tony_kushner_responds_cuny_board_decision
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Tony Kushner CUNY Controversy Continues: Trustees To Reconvene On Monday
The chairman of the City University of New York (CUNY) Board of Trustees released a public statement today, calling for the board to reconsider its decision to deny an honorary degree to Pulitzer Prize winning playwright Tony Kushner.

On Monday May 2, the board voted to "table" the awarding of the proposed degree, igniting a firestorm of controversy from around the world.

"I would not ordinarily ask for reconsideration of a decision so recently taken," Chair Benno Schmidt says in the statement, "But when the board has made a mistake of principle, and not merely of policy, review is appropriate and, indeed, mandatory."

Schmidt noted in his statement that the proposed honorary degree for Mr. Kushner would recognize his extraordinary talent and contributions to the American theater. "Like other honorary degrees," Schmidt wrote, "It is not intended to reflect approval or disapproval for political views not relevant to the field for which the recipient is being honored. Any other view is impractical as well as wrong in principle."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/06/tony-kushner-cuny-controversy_n_858824.html


Tony Kushner Supporters Flood CUNY with ComplaintsBy Caitlin Dickson 06:11 PM ET

Tony Kushner was snubbed by the City University of New York earlier this week when he a planned honorary degree was canceled after trustee Jeffrey Wiesenfeld questions his support of Israel. Now CUNY is coming under protests by supporter of the Angels in America playwright

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2011/05/good-enough-pulitzer-not-city-university-new-york/37446/



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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Letters: CUNY and Tony Kushner: A Firestorm
To the Editor:

Re “CUNY Blocks Honor for Playwright After Trustee Faults His Views on Israel” (news article, May 5):

As president of one of the 15 institutions of higher education that have awarded the playwright Tony Kushner an honorary degree, I feel compelled to respond to the outrageous decision, now being reconsidered, by the City University of New York to deny him this honor because of his alleged political views.

Even if the portrayal of his political ideas were accurate, and it was not, the very act of taking them into account by a university considering a highly deserved academic honor for one of America’s most distinguished artists and thinkers is appalling.

How can we as Americans confront violations of human rights and limitations on freedom of expression by other nations when American institutions whose missions embody the highest ideals of democracy and freedom of thought decide to punish an individual for his political beliefs, whatever they are?

GEORGE CAMPBELL Jr.
President, The Cooper Union
for the Advancement
of Science and Art
New York, May 6, 2011

To the Editor:

If Tony Kushner were a student, no trustee or administrator would have the right to deny him a degree if the requisite requirements were fulfilled.

On the other hand, an honorary degree is wholly within the discretion of the board to grant. It identifies the university with accomplished, generous citizens or public figures. It is also a tool that enhances a university’s image in the educational marketplace.

Mr. Kushner’s degree was opposed by a majority of the CUNY board because he is an extremist. No extremist from any quarter, whether from far left or far right, is a good face for any university.

What makes Mr. Kushner different from other honorees who are known Israel critics among the 450 or so honorary degrees awarded during the 12 years I have been on the board (all of them approved, including with my vote) is that he accuses Israel of ethnic cleansing — a term that crosses the line.

Ethnic cleansing is Nazi Germany, Bosnia, Darfur and Rwanda, to name a few (the American Indians didn’t fare too well, either). If Israel is an ethnic cleanser, how is it that over one million Arabs live better there than in almost any Arab state?

CUNY should remain a place of comfort and welcome for all of our students, faculty and administrators — including supporters of the Jewish state.

JEFFREY S. WIESENFELD
New York, May 5, 2011

The writer is the CUNY trustee who initially raised objections to an honorary degree for Tony Kushner.

To the Editor:

Since 1847, the City University of New York has been a wellspring for home-grown scholarship and creativity from the city’s diverse populations, especially its immigrant communities, among which New York’s Jews were prominent for several generations. No one could be a more appropriate candidate for an honorary degree from one of the university’s schools than Tony Kushner, among the nation’s most distinguished playwrights and a son — a Jewish son — of this city.

It would be appalling if CUNY denied such an honor on the basis of a political litmus test; it would be appalling if the honor were denied because the proposed honoree held outré or extreme views. It is all the more appalling that the denial was based on innuendo and misconstructions of Mr. Kushner’s critique of Israel’s policies.

In fact, Mr. Kushner’s stance is held by a substantial segment of this city’s Jewish population, including this writer.

JUDITH MAHONEY PASTERNAK
New York, May 5, 2011

To the Editor:

As a CUNY graduate, I cannot imagine being more shocked at and ashamed of the spinelessness of the CUNY board in denying Tony Kushner an honorary degree.

Are we to usher in a new kind of McCarthyism in which the exemplary minds of our age have to be vetted for some (irrelevant) politically correct attitudes — correct according to merely a few people?

This decision is an embarrassment to all CUNY students, faculty and graduates. A profound apology is owed to Mr. Kushner.

MICHAEL PARLEY
New York, May 5, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/07/opinion/l07kushner.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. In part, Kushner's words:
Edited on Sat May-07-11 12:34 PM by Jefferson23
Snip* Jeffrey S Weisenfeld – came regarding Kushner's position on Israel. Weisenfeld stated that Kushner had called Israel's Palestinian policy in the 1948 war as one of "ethnic cleansing", claimed the playwright had supported a boycott of Israel, declared he had criticised the Israeli defence force. In an open letter to the university board of trustees, Kushner called Weisenfeld's successful attack a "grotesque caricature" of his position "concocted out of three contextless quotes".

And then, as only he can, Kushner took apart their criticism. (He was not, he has repeatedly pointed out, invited to defend his case before the board).

"My questions and reservations regarding the founding of the state of Israel are connected to my conviction, drawn from my reading of American history, that democratic government must be free of ethnic or religious affiliation, and that the solution to the problems of oppressed minorities are to be found in pluralist democracy. I am very proud of being Jewish, and discussing this issue publicly has been hard; but I believe in the absolute good of public debate, and I feel that silence on the part of Jews who have questions is injurious to the life of the Jewish people. My opinion about the wisdom of the creation of a Jewish state has never been expressed in any form without a strong statement of support for Israel's right to exist, and my ardent wish that it continue to do so, something Mr Weisenfeld conveniently left out of his remarks."


He went on to say that his position regarding the forced removal of Palestinians in 1948 was formed by reading renowned Israeli historian Benny Morris, and that:

"My outrage, my grief, my terror, my moments of despair – regarding the ongoing horror in the Middle East, the brunt of which has been born by the Palestinian people, but which has also cost Israelis dearly and which endangers their existence, are shared by many Jews, in Israel, in the US and around the world. My despair is kept in check by my ongoing belief in and commitment to a negotiated conclusion to the Palestinian-Israeli crisis."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/06/tony-kushner-israel

* on edit for clarity.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wrestling with ZionProgressive Jewish-American Responses to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
* I haven't been able to locate any interviews with the trustees that were persuaded by Wiesenfeld
explaining why they accepted him at his word. To me this is the serious problem here, as it should be of no surprise
considering Wiesenfeld's position on Palestinians, that he would object to Kushner. Why was he so convincing to the
other members..I hope they are asked a range of questions and respond.


Edited by Tony Kushner and Alisa Solomon


With WRESTLING WITH ZION the contributors hope to help liberate American voices of negotiation for the end of the occupation, for justice for the Palestinians, and for peace and security for both Israelis and Palestinians.


Amid the clamor of contesting viewpoints surrounding the Mideast conflict, one perspective has been notably under-represented, silent or absent from the debate – that of the substantial part of the Jewish-American community that is identifiably progressive in its politics and highly critical of the actions and policies of both the Israeli government and the current administration in Washington. In media representation and in the minds of America's policy makers, Jewish-Americans are seen as sharing a single, unequivocal understanding of the conflict. As the violence intensifies, and death and destruction escalate, some turn towards the desperate and despairing ideologies of imperialism, racism, religious crusade and eternal global war; others, rejecting such a monstrous future, seek an alternative vision.

http://www.groveatlantic.com/#page=isbn9780802140159-release

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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-11 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. Tony Kushner and the corporatisation of CUNY
My parallel experience of being smeared by Jeffrey Wiesenfeld has convinced me of the very real threat to academic freedom


Kristofer Petersen-Overton guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 10 May 2011 04.49

BST Article history


On Monday evening, 9 May 2011, CUNY reversed its earlier decision to withhold an honorary degree from Tony Kushner after trustee Jeffrey Wiesenfeld had argued the playwright was too critical of Israel. Despite the controversy, Kushner has reportedly said he will accept the award. Photograph: Jeff Chiu/AP
The taboo surrounding critical discussion of Israel in the United States never ceases to amaze me. But when the Board of Trustees of the City University of New York (CUNY) recently decided not to grant an honorary degree to Pulitzer-Prize winning playwright Tony Kushner because of his views on Israel, it felt personal.

Three months ago, I found myself at the center of a similar controversy over my appointment to teach a course in Middle East Politics at Brooklyn College, a CUNY school. Lacking any evidence to support the charge, a local politician described me as "pro-suicide bomber" and pressed for my dismissal. Within 48 hours and before I had held a single session of the course, the college administration intervened to cancel my appointment. My case set off a groundswell of support from academics and activists around the world and Brooklyn College eventually reinstated me just in time for classes to begin.

Jeffrey Wiesenfeld, the board member behind the Kushner controversy, characterised Kushner's views on Israel as "extremist" and therefore unworthy of CUNY's recognition. Never mind that Tony Kushner is widely considered one of the greatest living American playwrights, his take on Israel was offensive to our man Wiesenfeld. When asked by the New York Times to elaborate on his objections, Wiesenfeld offered this piece of wisdom: "People who worship death for their children are not human … have developed a culture which is unprecedented in human history."

in full: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/10/tony-kushner-new-york


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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. Kushner quotes or Helen Thomas is that you?
Edited on Mon May-09-11 04:57 AM by shira
“I am not a Zionist, in case you haven’t noticed.” Kushner cited “the shame of American Jews” for failing to denounce Israel.
—Chicago Tribune (4/10/02)

“The existence of the state of Israel, because of the terrible way that the Palestinian people have been treated, is now in great peril and the world is in peril as a consequence of it. And we have now the spectacle of Jewish people all over the world, who in the past century had an absolutely magnificent tradition of rejecting barbarism and right-wing murderous politics, rallying behind Ariel Sharon who 10 years ago would never have been acceptable anywhere.
—In These Times interview (3/4/02)”

“I deplore the brutal and illegal tactics of the Israeli Defence Forces in the occupied territories. I deplore the occupation, the forced evacuations, the settlements, the refugee camps, the whole shameful history of the dreadful suffering of the Palestinian people; Jews, of all people, with our history of suffering, should refuse to treat our fellow human beings like that.”
—LondonTimes (5/7/02)

“I really believe that the Israel lobby has pulled American Jews into bed with some really awful people is undeniably the case.”

“The biggest supporters of Israel are the most repulsive members of the Jewish community and Israel itself has got this disgraceful record.”

“Playwright Tony Kushner said Israel is involved in ‘a deliberate destruction of Palestinian culture and a systematic attempt to destroy the identity of the Palestinian people.’”
—New York Sun (10/4/02)
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Liberation not occupation..thanks. n/t
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Just saying his criticism is antisemitic like Helen Thomas'.
I realize there are folks out there who don't find Helen Thomas' comments antisemitic either.

Not that I have a problem with Kushner receiving anything CUNY wants to give him. They can award David Duke for all I care. If Yasser Arafat deserved a Nobel Peace Prize, then why not Kushner receiving this award?

Sooner or later, the perpetrators and their enablers will figure out they're on the wrong side of history - again.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's good to know you define Kushner's criticism as antisemitic. n/t
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's not just me. He fails Sharansky's 3-D test and the EU working definition.
Edited on Mon May-09-11 11:48 AM by shira
But like I said, those who don't believe Helen Thomas' remarks are antisemitic won't think Kushner's are either.

Of course, many don't believe Sharansky's test is indicative of anything, nor the EU definition, the ADL, etc...
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. snip* However,
criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.


This part of the definition has proved highly contentious and is seen by many as attempting to proscribe legitimate criticism of the human rights record of the Israeli Government by attempting to bring any criticism of Israel into the category of antisemitism, and as not sufficiently distinguishing between criticism of Israeli actions and criticism of Zionism as a political ideology, on the one hand, and racially based violence towards, discrimination against, or abuse of, Jews.<12><13> Sociologist Paul Igansky<14> points out that parallels between Israeli policy and those of the Nazis are "arguably not intrinsically antisemitic", and that the context in which they are made is critical. Igansky illustrates this with the incident where Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin was described by fellow Jewish Israelis as cooperating with the Nazis, and depicted wearing an SS uniform. According to Igansky, the "Nazi" label was merely used as "charged political rhetoric" in this case.<15>

The Working Definition has been described by David Hirsh as "part of the terrain on which political struggles are conducted by, amongst others, academics".<16> In 2008 a UK Government publication noted that "The Government's position on the definition rests <...> that the definition was a work in progress that had not yet been recommended to Member States for adoption."<17>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Monitoring_Centre_on_Racism_and_Xenophobia


Natan Sharansky:

snip* From March 2003-May 2005, he was Israel's Minister without portfolio, responsible for Jerusalem, social and Jewish diaspora affairs. Under this position Sharansky chaired a secret committee that approved the seizure of East Jerusalem property of West Bank Palestinians. This decision was reversed after an outcry from the Israeli left and the international community.<10> Previously he served as the Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, Minister of Housing and Construction since March 2001, Interior Minister of Israel (July 1999 - resigned in July 2000), Minister of Industry and Trade (1996–1999). He resigned from the cabinet in April 2005 to protest plans to withdraw Israeli settlements from the Gaza Strip. He was re-elected to the Knesset in March 2006 as a member of the Likud Party. On November 20, 2006, he resigned from the Knesset to form the Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies.<11> Since 2007, Sharansky has been Chairman of the Board of Beit Hatefutsot, the Jewish diaspora museum,<12> and since June 2009 is the chairman of the executive of the Jewish Agency for Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natan_Sharansky


That you consider this man's 3 D test legitimate is your choice, true.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Nope
It's posted right here; you can't pretend that was anti-semitic. It only works if people don't post what he actually said, as a hint.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'll take it that you're down for Kushner's views on Israel are antisemitic then, ok. n/t
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's not a "down for"; they simply aren't
Unless "antisemitic" has no meaning at all.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Really?
Edited on Mon May-09-11 04:36 PM by shira
American Jews...should be ashamed for not denouncing Israel?

Jews should refuse to treat fellow human beings like...that?

The biggest supporters of Israel are....the most repulsive members of the Jewish community?

Israel is involved.... in the deliberate destruction of Palestinian culture and a systematic attempt to destroy the identity of the Palestinian people?

==========

Switch the words "Jews and Israel" with "Arabs and Palestine" and see how you like it.

Imagine a non-Jew said all what Kushner said.

These words incite hatred and cost Israeli lives.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Sorry, did you quote the wrong passages?
I thought you were trying to quote anti-semitic passages from Kushner? I assume you cut and pasted the wrong ones?
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Do you think the supporters of Israel who post here are repulsive?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Some of them, sure
But then again it's hasty to judge someone on a moral level based on their Internet postings. But the opinions of some are racist, horrifying, and repulsive, yes.
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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Wow


I hope nobody alerts on thatpost ,it`s good to stand just as is.
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It's why they can't see the anti-semitism.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Because it isn't there to see. Same way with unicorns (nt)
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. You honestly believe that no one who is pro-Israel has never posted
an opinion that is racist?


The complete text you responded to was:

Some of them, sure
But then again it's hasty to judge someone on a moral level based on their Internet postings. But the opinions of some are racist, horrifying, and repulsive, yes.

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King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Jews are not a race,but an ethnicity nt
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You trying to be funny?
The Jews are not a race, but an ethnicity is your answer to my question??


Please read this again: You honestly believe that no one who is pro-Israel has never posted
an opinion that is racist?

You think your statement exempts pro-Israeli posters from posting racist opinions toward Palestinians?



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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. self delete, double post. n/t
Edited on Mon May-09-11 08:55 PM by Jefferson23
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. On what possible grounds could someone alert that post? (nt)
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Can't say I'm surprised.
Edited on Mon May-09-11 05:31 PM by shira
Those who refuse to see antisemitism in Helen Thomas' remarks...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x346061

...can't be expected to see them anywhere else.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. This thread is about Kushner, although it is clear YOU equate the
two the same,(Thomas)..glad to know you make no distinction.
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shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. It's also about what is perceived to be antisemitism when it comes to 'criticism' of Israel.
Edited on Mon May-09-11 05:48 PM by shira
You don't believe Helen Thomas' remarks in Playboy are antisemitic, right?

But back to the OP....

There are some Israeli writers like Bradley Burston and Carlo Strenger and they are fierce critics of the occupation, settlements, and rightwing policies. I wouldn't dream of ever accusing them of making antisemitic remarks. Do you wonder why? Do you not know the difference between their criticism and that of Helen Thomas, Norman Finkelstein, etc.?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Sorry, you must have been replying to the wrong post
I did two greps for my username in that thread and didn't find it. Which thread did you intend to reply to?
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Ok, thanks, I had misunderstood you earlier. n/t
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-11 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. snip* Will a reversal end the affair? Not necessarily. Closing a self-inflicted wound can be tough.
May 9, 2011

For starters, it isn’t clear if Mr. Kushner, who demanded an apology from the board, even wants to bother now with the John Jay degree. The trustees’ bumbling has also created an awkward moment for others receiving honors this spring from the university and its component colleges. I’m told that some have threatened to take their names off the awards list.

Then there is a fundamental question that Mr. Schmidt and his colleagues have yet to answer: If free expression is such a “bedrock” principle, how come it didn’t occur to any of them to make that point while Mr. Wiesenfeld was holding forth on Mr. Kushner — with statements, by the way, that the playwright has called utter distortions of his views on Israel? “Far more dismaying than Mr. Wiesenfeld’s diatribe is the silence of the 11 board members,” Mr. Kushner said in a letter to the trustees.

Nor has the university’s chancellor, Matthew Goldstein, escaped criticism. Mr. Goldstein “should have spoken out forcefully on this issue,” an editorial in The New York Times said on Saturday as it also called for Mr. Wiesenfeld’s resignation.

To the art historian Diane Kelder, one welcome outcome of this “whole shabby procedure” might be closer scrutiny of the board itself. Ms. Kelder, a professor emeritus at the university’s graduate center, is receiving her own honorary degree, from the College of Staten Island, where she used to teach.

“It calls the whole process into question,” she said in an interview. “Who are these people on the board? How do they make judgments? And when someone like this man stands up and hyperventilates, why is he given so much credibility?”

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/clyde-haberman-the-day/?partner=rss&emc=rss
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
36. Playwright Tony Kushner Defends Criticism of Israel, Announces Plan To Accept CUNY Degree (Exclusive
In a global broadcast exclusive, the Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright Tony Kushner appears on Democracy Now! to announce he will accept an honorary degree at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, following a controversy that sparked national attention.

Last week, the Board of Trustees of The City University of New York voted to shelve the degree after one member cited Kushner's critical views of Israeli government policies. But on Monday night, the CUNY board reversed its decision.

Kushner says he is still hoping for an apology from the CUNY board.

"In lieu of an apology, I would accept what is clearly an admission of error, judgment and lapse of responsibility on the part of the Board on defending open exchange and academic freedom." Kushner, one of the world's leading playwrights, has long defended the human rights of Palestinians and has publicly criticized Israeli policies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/democracy-now/kushner-criticism-of-israel-cuny-degree_b_859893.html




BROADCAST EXCLUSIVE: Playwright Tony Kushner Speaks Out on CUNY Controversy, Academic Freedom and Israel
TONY KUSHNER: Well, I’m very pleased that they did it. I think it’s the appropriate thing to do. I think it’s important to point out that it’s the direct and even exclusive consequence of the protest that was mounted by the CUNY community and academic community all over the United States and many, many people who are concerned with freedom of expression and the open exchange of ideas. And I think the board did the right thing in reversing their decision. So I’m happy about it, and I’m happy that I’m going to accept the degree and be at the John Jay commencement on June 3rd.

AMY GOODMAN: How did you hear that the board had reversed this decision?


http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/10/exclusive_playwright_tony_kushner_speaks_out
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. An Open Letter to Tony Kushner; Dovid Efune.Director, The Algemeiner Journal & G. Jacobson Foudation
Edited on Wed May-11-11 03:06 PM by Jefferson23
I have yet to study your literary work, although I have long had a keen interest, so when news broke last week of the 'CUNY episode' it immediately caught my attention, as it did many other young Jews around the country and the world. Eager to participate in the dialogue over this matter, the Algemeiner Journal, under my direction, published the first written response by Jeffrey Wiesenfeld to your letter published by the Jewish Week.

It was of such great interest, not so much because of the particulars, but rather the broader significance of the many compelling issues that this incident brought to light, and their ongoing contemporary relevance.

snip* Upon scrutiny, I discovered that your statements and claims are so riddled with hypocrisy, contradictions and prejudicial assumptions that I felt it imperative to publicly request an explanation.

Throughout your letter you refer to Mr. Wiesenfeld's comments as a "grotesque caricature" of your political beliefs, "slander," "diatribe" and a "vicious attack." You label Mr. Wiesenfeld as a "bully" and "lacking the ability to tolerate disagreement" and you imply that he is untruthful, unscholarly and lacks integrity. I am sure that you are aware that in Mr. Wiesenfeld's comments at the board meeting, he used no such derogatory adjectives, and was careful to assert his objection only to the positions that he believed you to have espoused, steering clear of personal attacks and character assassination.

in full: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dovid-efune/an-open-letter-to-tony-kushner_b_860246.html

on edit for clarity.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. 'Tony Kushner Is Disingenuous And Dissembling': An Interview with CUNY Board of Trustee Member Jeffr
Posted May 11 2011

The decision last week by CUNY's Board of Trustees to deny playwright Tony Kushner an honorary degree sparked an uproar in the media, and Jeffrey Wiesenfeld has been at the center of it.

Wiesenfeld, a longtime outspoken Israel supporter and a member of CUNY's board of trustees, convinced four of his colleagues that honoring Kushner - who believes Israel's founding was a mistake and resulted from ethnic cleansing - would be inappropriate. Kushner needed nine votes out of 12 to receive the degree. He got only seven.

But then, responding to public pressure, the board's seven-member executive committee - which does not include Wiesenfeld - overturned the decision Monday night and voted to grant Kushner the degree.

The Jewish Press recently spoke with Wiesenfeld, a principal at Bernstein Global Wealth Management, about the "Kushner affair"; Israel activism; the revival of Yiddish theater (Wiesenfeld heads the National Yiddish Theatre); his experiences working for the FBI; his years in the service of New York politicos Ed Koch, Alfonse D'Amato and George Pataki; and his memories of growing up in the Bronx.

The Jewish Press: In various newspaper interviews over the years, Tony Kushner has "deplored illegal and brutal tactics" against the Palestinians; argued that Israel is engaged in "a deliberate destruction of Palestinian culture and a systematic attempt to destroy the identity of the Palestinian people"; and stated that Israel's founding "was a mistake." And yet, he now claims to be "dismayed by vicious attack and wholesale distortion of beliefs." How do you make sense of that?

Wiesenfeld: Kushner is disingenuous and dissembling. If his libelous statements against Israel were made by anyone outside the Jewish community, that person would be labeled an anti-Semite. When you hold the State of Israel - a nation in a struggle for its survival from the beginning and a target for the misogynist, racist, anti-western, dictatorial regimes that surround it - to a standard you would hold no other nation under normal circumstances, let alone under such exigencies, and when you spew libel against our sole regional democratic ally for "crimes" concocted by delegitimizers, you're an anti-Semite.


It's a tragedy to tell you that we could do without 80 percent of the Jews. It's the good Christians who stand up for Israel and for us. It's a very sad thing for me to say.

Some people argue, though, that politics should be irrelevant when deciding whether to give a famous playwright an honorary degree.

http://www.jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/48246
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