Palestinian Militant Killed in Explosion

[pistoff democrat]

An explosion ripped through a car in the Gaza Strip on Sunday, killing a Palestinian militant, witnesses said.

The incident took place in Rafah, on the Gaza-Egypt border. The witnesses had no explanation for the blast. No Israeli helicopters were seen in the area, which would generally rule out the possibility that Israel targeted the militant.

The area is a frequent site of clashes between Palestinian militants and Israeli forces. Palestinians often plant bombs aimed at Israeli military vehicles.

The militant, Yusuf Matar, 25, an activist in the violent Islamic Jihad, was taken to the Rafah hospital, where he died, doctors said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3447578,00.html

(media to reality dictionary: militant = terrorist)

[pistoff democrat]

1. "Palestinians often plant bombs aimed at Israeli military vehicles. "

oops...bad aim?

[JM]

2. Just a guess...

...that perhaps this was a vehicle that being delivered to a suicide bomber. Nothing to support the guess though.

JM

[pistoff democrat]

4. Excellent!

Sounds about right to me...but, just wait, you'll learn here that the Israeli's are responsible anyway.

[Darranar]

3. How is he a terrorist?

[pistoff democrat]

5. 20 quesions?

sorry, not in the mood...

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GabysPoppy]

7. OK, here is a try at it

Most NON-terrorists have groceries in the trunk of their cars.

Most terrorists have bombs in their trunk.

Do you think 10 dozen eggs caused the explosion?

:shrug:

[Darranar]

8. He could have been a miltiant fighting against Israeli occupation...

if he was, as seems possible according to the article, laying bombs for Israeli military vehicles, that would not be terrorism but rather legitimate armed resistance.

[Scurrilous]

11. From reuters....

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3912248

"Palestinian security sources said they were investigating whether the car of slain driver, Yusuf Abu Matar, 33, had been booby-trapped making him the victim of a targeted strike by Israel, or whether he carried a bomb that exploded prematurely."

[Gimel]

36. Work accident

The story about it being booby-trapped is a fabrication. This is only to implicate Israel, as is the case whenever such an explosion occurs. No helicopters were seen in the area. It was not triggered by a phone call. Israeli operatives would not go into Gaza City to plant a bomb in a vehicle. The man is a memeber of terrorist a group. The only explanation for the explosion is that he was making a car bomb to be driven into Israel and it exploded prematurly.

[JohnLocke]

12. "legitimate armed resistance"?

"legitimate armed resistance"?

Islamic Jihad is a terrorist organization.

http://www.ict.org.il/inter_ter/orgattack.cfm?orgid=28. Take a look. Then ask yourself, is this "legitimate armed resistance"?

And by the way, the cruz of your agument seems to be centered around the idea that PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad) is selective about its targets - that it only attacks inside "the occupied territories" and only attacks military targets. This is ludicrous. Look at the above link from the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism. You'll see that PIJ is responsibile for dozens of attacks on non-military targets, including bus stops, busses, and religious schools.

(edited for spelling errors)

[Darranar]

13. That's unfair labeling...

Islamic Jihad has engaged in terrorist acts, yes, but this man, as far as we know, did not. He was a combatant, and a legitimate target of Israeli strikes, but he was not a terrorist unless he committed such acts.

Endorsement of terrorism is not terrorism.

[rini]

39. LOL

thanks for the laugh of the evening.

[GabysPoppy]

42. It would be funny if it was said as sarcasm

But I think he means it and that is not funny.

I hope I am wrong.

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. I would add

Membership IN a terrorist organization. That means, when you have a bomb in your car (hypothetically) it is assumed you plan to deliver it to the civilian population. As a terrorist, you are a military target at all times.

[Darranar]

28. Define "terrorist organization".

[Aidoneus]

29. "somebody I don't like" / "somebody not on my team"

universal definition.

[The Magistrate]

35. Indeed, My Friend

The word is rather useless. This person is an acknowledged member of a combatant organization that takes as its principal mode of operation attacks on enemy civilians, without the least effort to engage enemy combatants. That would open it to classification as a criminal organization, without any doubt. It would seem the mostly likely explaination of the fellow's demise is that he was transporting explosives, that "cooked off", as these sometimes do for no readily apparent reason.

[Muddleoftheroad]

30. Those already listed as having deliberately attacked civilian targets

* Hamas
* Islamic Jihad
* Popular Front For The Liberation Of Palestine
* Fatah
* Tanzim
* Hezbollah

Did I miss anyone? Probably, it's worse than keeping track of the alphabet soup in D.C.

[Darranar]

31. Okay...

then those who AREN'T listed aren't terrorist organizations?

There is very strong evidence to suggest that in the past the IDF has attacked civilian targets; does that make every IDF soldier a terrorist?

[tinnypriv]

32. So if I start a *new* organisation targetting civilians

I'm not a terrorist?

[Muddleoftheroad]

44. It was pretty obvious I wasn't trying to be all inclusive

That's kind of hard anyhow because there are so many different Palestinian terror groups.

[Aidoneus]

33. the same honesty I displayed above would be nice

"somebody I don't like".. forget somebody else's lists, forget criteria you make up on the fly and apply with meticulously hypocritical selectivity..

[tinnypriv]

20. Stunning definition

Unfortunately, that'd make Israeli undercover liquidation squads terrorists, right? :eyes:

Mr Locke gave an excellent definition below. I suggest you take it on board.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. No, it was only one question, not 20...

And one that was relevent to the thread that YOU started. If yr not in the mood to answer even a single question, then I'm wondering why yr wasting yr time in this forum. It wasn't a particularly hard question, was it?


Violet...

[pistoff democrat]

45. Please accept my humble apologies.

I'm always in the mood to answer questions,however, you might have noticed that this sort of interchange about terrorists has been done and done in exactly the same way repeatedly. It's not a hard question at all, just futile given the history of its use by some here.

"A car blew up in the southern Gaza Strip on Sunday, killing a Palestinian member of the Islamic Jihad militant group, medics and Palestinian security officials said."

The man was a member of Islamic Jihad. I realize you probably do not agree that is a terrorist organization, but I believe it is.

The man was carrying a bomb. I realize you probably do not believe he was, but I do.

Pistoff Democrat...

[Violet_Crumble]

46. What for?

If yr always in the mood to answer questions, well, then, try answering them. Yr only new in this forum, so it's not like you've been asked that question before or anything. This may come as a shock but maybe the person asking wanted to know what you thought....

Actually, you don't realise anything at all if you've come up with some silly idea that I don't think Islamic Jihad is a terrorist group. Try reading the archives, or even better, ask people what they think before coming up with a clunker like that one. The issue isn't whether Islamic Jihad is a terrorist group, but whether or not this man was involved in attacks on civilians. If a bomb is going to be used on a military target, then he's not a terrorist, because we all know that attacking military targets isn't terrorism, right? So, if you know something that no-one else knows that indicates this man was going to attack civilians, then feel free to share. If it's just another version of 'I know it must be true because the IDF told me so!!', I'll try and do a convincing I'm So Impressed look while you tell me ;)


Violet...

[bluesoul]

47. Apparently IDF can attack any targets

in name of "security" yet Palestinians attacking IDF are terrorists. GO figure...

[drdon326]

48. I must agree pistoff democrat ....

This sort of interchange about terrorists has been done and done in exactly the same way repeatedly....

Really no reason to answer any questions.

[JohnLocke]

9. The Guardian Got Half-Credit...

...by calling Matar a "militant," but lost points for calling him an "activist." The Scotsman did it even worse by running the headline "Palestinian Critically Wounded in Car Blast." Why won't they call these people what they are - terrorists?
_________________
http://www.news.scotsman.com/print.cfm?id=2242688&referringtemplate=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enews%2Escotsman%2Ecom%2Flatest%2Ecfm&referringquerystring=id%3D2242688

[Darranar]

10. What is your definition of terrorists?

[JohnLocke]

14. Terrorist (n.) --

Terrorist (n.) -- one that engages in in an act or acts of terrorism.
Terrorism (n.) -- The unlawful or threatened use of force or violence by a person or group aganist people or property with the intention of intimidation or coercion toward a socity or government, often for political, religious, and/or ideological reasons.

[Darranar]

18. This use of force is not unlawful...

since it targets combatants, it is legitimate.

[JohnLocke]

21. Combatants = anyone the terrorists want to attack

Combatants = anyone the terrorists want to attack, includiung children, strudents, women, and civilians? Surely you jest, Darranar. Your claim is similiar to the assertation that those in the Pentagon on Sept. 11 were "legitimate" targets.

[Darranar]

23. No, combatants...

are military officials.

IDF soldiers count.

[Gimel]

37. The majority of Israeli deaths

About two-thirds of the Israeli deaths are civilians, not off-duty soldiers or military targets. Look at the list sometime. www.mfa.gov.il

[Darranar]

38. What does that have to do...

with whether this man himself was or was not a terrorist?

[Gimel]

43. If this doesn't fit your definition

A man transporting explosives in the Gaza City, with a Palestinian identity, is either a terrorist or has been hired by terrorists to do the work of terrorists in preparation for a terrorist attack. If that isn't a terrorist, in your book, you ought to rewrite.

Or maybe, you assume that the explosives are for a "legitimate target", therefore, even though he has been contracted by a terrorist organization to carry explosives in his vehicle, he, as just a hired workman, should be given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe, after all, the intended target was military, with only the odd chance of collateral damage (as a few of the strikes have been). So, you caution, Israeli military should wait and see before branding this man a terrorist. If he is not a terrorist, he is not a legitimate target, and should be treated as a civilian workman. Maybe the explosives were for a peaceful purpose, like building a road or clearing an uninhabited area for construction.

Let's just wait and see what gets blown up and the judge the man transporting the explosives. Then we can go an arrest him, take him from his home, and put him on trial.

[Darranar]

50. No, he's a legitimate target regardless...

that wasn't the point. My point was that the term "militant" in this case was accurate. It is not known if he falls into the specific category of a terrorist.

[Aidoneus]

26. this is broaching on a potentially long and heated argument,

so I'll keep it short, not having the interest for such a futile game.. but, in what ways was it not?

[newyorican]

34. nothing to argue, I guess...

The Pentagon is a legit target. The problem with the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon wasn't with the target, the problem was the weapon.

Don't get me wrong. I would be angry about an attack on the Pentagon regardless, but the choice of weapon evokes the same horror as when the planes hit the towers.

[Aidoneus]

16. They're not your slaves, Mr.Locke

they should use whatever terms they please, and not conform to such whims.

[JohnLocke]

22. I'm not demanding that they do anything.

They can do whatever they please. I'm simply pointing out that their outright refusal to call a terrorist a terrorist is wrong.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. You appear to be demanding they abide by yr definitions...

And as you seem to have some confusion and think militant = terrorist, and there is no such thing as a militant, I tend to believe that's a rather unreasonable demand on yr part...

Violet...

[rini]

40. standard dictionary terms are all we have

to define our use of language. They are the final authority.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/26/T0122600.html= terrorist

http://www.bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=&query=militant&x=11&y=81. = Inclined to act in a hostile way: aggressive, belligerent, combative, contentious, militant.

[Violet_Crumble]

49. That's right. They're not the same thing...

Militants attack legitimate targets like the military, whereas terrorists target civilians. You don't agree?

btw, standard dictionary terms are NOT all we have. That's why some of us get ourselves an ed-hu-kay-shun, so's we can go way beyond a basic dictionary definition when discussing these sorts of things. It's kind of cute that you'd think that terms can be definitively defined in one short sentence, but I suspect there's a bit more to it than that, somehow. Especially since the term terrorism is flung around so loosely at times that it really means nothing nowadays...

Violet...

[JohnLocke]

41. By that "logic..."

By that "logic," Israel can do whatever it wants. They're not your slaves either, Mr. Aidoneus.

[tinnypriv]

19. Yet another person

Who doesn't understand the difference between a wire service article and an article by the publication itself.

Amazing.

[pistoff democrat]

15. Please see #4:

Understand yet?

[pistoff democrat]

25. Here it is:

A car blew up in the southern Gaza Strip on Sunday, killing a Palestinian member of the Islamic Jihad militant group, medics and Palestinian security officials said.

Yusuf Abu Matar, 33, who also belonged to the Palestinian police force, died in a local hospital minutes after the blast shook his car in the Rafah refugee camp on the southern edge of Gaza, near the border with Egypt, witnesses and medics said.


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30376021.htm