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Resistance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-01-03 11:59 PM
Original message
The Stage Is Set For Ethnic Cleansing
by Kristen Ess

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=3961

It seems that for Abu Mazen, talking to George Bush is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Real dialogue is certainly not going to happen, nor does anyone expect it to, this week in Washington, or anywhere else for that matter. Why would Bush, the funder of Israeli atrocities, Sharon's moral support, and international war monger, suddenly become the honest broker he wishes the world believed he was?

PM Abbas was picked to sell-out Palestine during Road Map talks just as Arafat was required to during Oslo. And Bush has not hesitated to let Sharon interpret the Road Map as he likes. We watched the removal of five uninhabited outposts, including fights between angry settlers and Israeli soldiers, which the London Financial Times this week reported were staged.

Throughout this time the IOF is destroying hundreds of dunams of agricultural land. The Gaza Strip was a fertile area, with Palestinian farmers growing produce for internal consumption and for the residents of Jericho in the southern West Bank. But after destroying most of the farmland over the past year and confiscating much of it for Israeli settlements, there is little produce in the last month found inside the Gaza Strip, and what the residents of Jericho must now rely on comes from Israeli sources inside 1948 boundaries. This is part of the ethnic cleansing process.

The head of a Palestinian organization promoting nonviolent resistance applied to travel outside for a conference. He was questioned for five hours by an Israeli deputy military governor about his work. He requests the details remain vague for fear of reprisal. At the end of the interrogation, the Israeli official, as if he wanted to be helpful by telling the man the truth, told him earnestly,

"Look, you can forget about nonviolence. You can tell your friends to forget about violence. Forget about the Road Map and forget about Oslo. What Israel wants is the land and we don't want you on it."
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jos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sharon had Bush by the balls
As long as AIPAC is able to dictate policy to the Congress, and Bush is facing re-election, Sharon can do whatever he wants. Not that Bush wouldn't be inclined to support Sharon in any event.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I particularly with the part
Not that Bush wouldn't be inclined to support Sharon in any event. our Congress has even less of a moral compass on this issue than on the others. Very little independent thought. Or rather independent thought sold to the highest bidder

Monsanto
Enron
Insrance Agencies
Pharma
Cargill


You name- rotten to the corps. I have no hopes on our Congress. Only on President Kucinich and every single Leftist, Progressive, Leftist Retard out there regardless of religion, country or ethnicity.

I already know that the most important support for a true just peace is going to come from American and Israeli Jews who are going to FORCE a just resolution of this conflict FOR PEACE.

Congress - 0
Isreali/Jewish Progressives - 60
The rest of us - 40

The name is holy. He who owns the name has the power.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Agreed, Tinoire...
American and Israeli Jews are the ones who can best influence the situation for the better.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. That does seem true.
Yet I am not sure within all the organized Jewish Peace orgs if they have yet figured away to fight the strength of the lobby groups purveying the kind of propaganda that tends place all the blame and vilifications on the Palestinians.

Penetrating the Nationalists Propaganda campaigns could do the trick, but it is tricky. Even US Media almost across the board refuses to debunk the various myths by doing any really worthy commentary on the occupation even. Any story that hints of palestinian sympathy is admonished as anti-israel and US mainstream reporting hardly reports from the Palestinian perspective the kind of informative way that would even begin to rally support for the Palestinian plight or its cause.

Look at the anti-war movement. The Israeli propagandists have been spinning the doctrine for decades now. For the most part, the doctrine and the propaganda goes unchallenged, which is odd because it only guarantees the continuation of the occupation and is no support of peace at all. What is going on in the occupied territories has to hit the mainstream airways in a very big way. Peace orgs are great, but the US media is no help. It is not even clear to the American public that transfer policies are being conducted most have been bamboozeled into believing where working within a peace process. And even if they doubt the media gives no focus to the Palestinian grievance or the injustices or the torments and deceitful tactics responsible for the innocent life lose over the course of the last three years... Most think all deaths are "terrorist" linked.

Another travesty the lack of balanced reporting, if not the outright black out on the Palestinian perspective here in the states in terms of mainstream. The US media itself could be considered highly anti-palestinian for all the bellyaching of how pro arab it is. That is a fallacy.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The Israeli government...
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 02:25 PM by Darranar
believes, to some extent, that it represents the Jewish people. If the Jewish peace movement can make their presence known-strongly-with massive rallies and the like, the Israel government could well stop a lot of its actions.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. US mainstream media coverage to back it up
would certainly be helpful
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Wasn't there a lot of media coverage of the Iraq war protests?
If the same amount of attention was given to such Palestinian solidarity rallies, perhaps it could indeed accomplish something worthwhile.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. well even that coverage wasn't excessive
but Yes if there was coverage to that degree it would certainly help.
I am looking for an essay which will augment the original post. Is is far more eloquent than I could be regarding the US media issue I speak of. I just have to find it.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Oh...heres a palestinian solidarity rally....
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 05:17 PM by drdon326
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Palestinian solidarity...
not Hamas solidarity. If you associate Hamas with the Palestinian people as a whole, drdon, you are, put very simply, promoting racism. I do not think you do such a thing, drdon, but please clarify your post.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I STAND CORRECTED
I often get confused.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. It takes a big person to stand up and say that
I don't know it that was tongue in cheek and I hope it wasn't because if that was sincere, you have just shot up in my eyes.
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Are you saying...
Darranar, are you saying then that Hamas promotes racism?
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. No, that's not what I'm saying...
though it surely does. I am saying that saying that all Palestinians are like Hamas, or that Hamas represents the Palestinians, is a racist statement.
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. That's Hamas...
Not ISM....are you sure you're a doctor?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Yes they are Wonder
Every day there are more of these groups with more and more people speaking out. Both in the US and in Israel. No, also in France, Britain, Spain... ALL over.

Go to www.ariga.com , Ami Isserrof's Peace Watch site and follow the links, search for them.

Also go to his other site: www.mideastweb.org where the focus seems more historical and political.

I have, for 4 years now been watching these peace/co-operation groups blossom everywhere and PLEASE trust me on this one, the movement is growing. People are tired of death and killing and lies and hate.

If it seems to you that the hard-liners are winning the popularity contest, take solace in the fact that it only SEEMS that way because the dwindling side is making all the noise.

Why do you think Sharon is pretending to pretend he's going along with the road-map? It's because the hard-liners KNOW their time is running out and that good people are rising everywhere saying ENOUGH and willing to do something about it!

People like Uri Avnery, the Refusniks, Darranar, you, me, Resistance, Hedda Foil, Dutch, Indiana Green, Jews for Peace, Amira Hess, etc, etc! The World Peace movement is growing EVERYWHERE.

One is either with the revolution or is not. There is no standing in the middle of the street on this one, not when it comes to peace and justice. Those who choose to remain in the middle of the street are going to get run over! So take heart and bona venatio!
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I do not question the FACT that the groups exist and grow but WHERE
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 07:00 PM by Wonder
is the US media coverage...???? Where are the faces of the Palestinians in Exodos as we write. Where are the faces of those made recently homeless.

Because time is running out and history does seem to stand on the side of the RW and Sharon would not hesitate to move in for a kill.

Perhaps it is just I but even within the rhetoric of some of the peace orgs, I am not hearing something I seem to think I need to hear... there seems an absense in the linguistic... It comes up the loudest in this mantra about how useless it is to assign blame...

Some of the peace groups too just seem to want to clean the slate miraculously and start as if today is the first day. Sorry that philosophy is encourages RW Likud to maintain its denials.

I have said it before I will say it again. It is not enought just to be anti-occupation while discouraging blame or responsibility. One contradicts the other.

Peace now was an ardent advocate of Oslo... Oslo was a lie... this groups also must unearth the lie and understand why Oslo..

Here is a paragraph from a Said essay on how he was treated by some peace activists from Peace Now because he outwardly and IMHO rightfully criticized the Oslo peace process. Peace Now activists vilified him opennly... And now we can see clearly the sham of Oslo.

All it did was buckle the occupation down.

snip
A short while ago I was invited to present my views on the current "peace process" to an invited group of guests at the Columbia University School of Journalism. Aside from a small number of individuals from the university itself, and one Arab UN ambassador, the audience of about fifty people comprised reporters, news directors, and columnists from television, newspapers, and radio. What I had to say was described by title of my remarks–"Misleading Images and Brutal Realities"–which argued that that the picture given in the U.S. media as well as by the U.S. government of a wonderful progress toward peace in the Middle East is belied and contradicted by the worsening situation in the area, especially so far as Palestinians are concerned. I gave a documented and discouraging picture of how the Oslo agreement and its aftermath have increased Palestinian poverty an unemployment; how the worst aspects of the Israeli occupation–now the longest military occupation of the twentieth century–have continued; how land expropriation and the expansion of settlements have gone on; and finally, how for Palestinians living under the "limited autonomy" supposedly controlled by the Palestinian Authority life has gotten worse, freedom less, and prospects diminished. I laid the blame for this on the United States, which sponsors the injustices and inequities of the process; on Israel, which exploits Palestinian weakness to prolong its military occupation and settlement practices by other means; and on the Palestinian Authority, which has legalized the illegal, not to say preposterous, aspects of the "peace process" and presses on with it weakly and incompetently, in spite of incontravertible evidence that Israel and the United States remain unchanged in their hostilities to Palestinian aspirations.

A period of discussion and questions followed, most of it dominated by two or three supporters of Israel, one of them an Israeli employee of Reuters. The irony here was that all of them attacked me personally, speaking about my lack of integrity, anti-Semitism, and so on, without ever saying a single thing that contradicted the picture I had just presented. Both the organizer of the seminar and myself tried to push past the storm of insults and slurs, asking that people dispute with me on the basis of contesting facts and figures. None was forthcoming. My crime seemed to be that I opposed the peace process, even though it was also the case that what I said about it in fact was true. My opponents were in every case people who described themselves as supporters of Peace Now (i.e., liberal Jews) and hence of peace with Palestinians. I kept raising the question of military occupation, settlement policy, the annexation of Jerusalem, but I received no response–only more accusations that I had missed certain nuances and important distinctions.

I concluded from this that in some very profound way I had violated the accepted norms for Palestinian behavior after Oslo. For one, I persisted in bringing up embarrassing questions and troubling issues. We are now supposed to feel that peace is moving forward and to question anything about the "peace process" is tantamount to being an ungrateful, treasonous wretch. For another, I spoke in terms of facts and figures, and I was unsparing in my criticism of all the parties to peace But I found that I was expected to express gratitude and a general attitude of cheerfulness, which I had violated by complaining abuot concrete abuses. Lastly, I had had the nerve to speak about the sitution neither as a supplicant nor as a subservient "native." This was particularly annoying to one of the individuals, who had become accustomed to Palestinians regarding her as a superior "expect" and foreign adviser. In other words Palestinians are obligated to see such people as somehow entitled to tell us what is good for us, for our own good. The precedent seems to derive from the PLO chairman, who has surrounded himself with foreign advisers and financial experts, al of whom aid him in his private investments and commercial undertakings.

Although all the other members of the audience soon tired of my opponents, and expressed agreement with my views, I realized that the nature of the encounter I had just had with proponents of the "peace process" was the main thing that was wrong with that process: its total obliviousness to the interests of the Palestinian people, as well as its enhancement of Israel's position...(FIRST CHAPTER: THE END OF THE PEACE PROCESS: OSLO AND AFTER, E.Said)

_____________________

My point is this: I detect even in the voice of peace activists a reticients to let go of some of the propaganda as well. While theY may not be purporting it, it is not necessarily debunked, nor are flood gates opening to let out those aspects of the Palestinian plight and cause that must come front and center on this. For all the blossoming groups, which i most wholehearted encourage WHERE is the mainstream coverage, where is the needed commentary on the adverse consequence of the occupations mechanism of control.

Instead, what I detect somewhat is still an attempt to guide from view that blame and expose that is crucial to the Palestinians. Take the gag of the mouth of the Palestinians. Let them tell their story of their "catastrophe" always parleed in quotes as if it remains some semi fiction in the mind of a lesser and more evil people. There were intricate nuances of Israeli control evident throughout the Oslo process wherein the GAG was never removed and after it become WORSE for the Palestinians, and now stands on the threshold of utter travesty which it seems all walk toward with all eyes open...

Sure there is enough blame to go around, but behind all that Israel has not been called to task for, and has remained unaccountable for just being anti-occupation will not do. WHERE IS THE US MAINSTREAM PALESTINIAN DIALOGUES, THE PALESTINIAN CRITICISM OF THIS PROCESS. Where are their thoughts on abc and nbc and cbs as to this devastation called the Al Aqsa Intifada.

Please take my thoughts in stride I am aware of all of the work of gush shalom and I am not sure that I am directing these thoughts to all of the movements or anyone in particular. All I know is from what I have followed in regard to what is really going on vs. what US mainstream covers which is nothing but the General's it is clear to me the Palestinians still are non-existent in this story. It is just more food for thought.

You say there is no standing in the middle of the street on this one. I ditto that. I say it is not enough to be anti-occupation at the continued maintainance of the Israeli denials. That will not do!

Here is a recent speech by Edward Said. Is definitely worth a listen or a viewing if you haven't already done so. He speaks as a Palestine in exile as he calls himself of the DIGNITY OF HIS PEOPLE...


Edward Said on Israel, Palestine and the Most Recent Middle East Peace Plan

from transcript

snip
if we miss that truth about the power of Palestinian resistance, despite all its failings and all its mistakes, and God knows there have been many, we miss everything. Palestinians have always been a problem for the Zionist project, and many solutions have perennially been proposed that minimize rather than solve the problem. The official Israeli policy, no matter what--whether Ariel Sharon uses the word occupation or not, or whether or not he dismantles a rusty, unused tower or two, has always been not to accept the reality of the Palestinian people as equals, nor even to admit that their rights were scandalously violated all along by Israel. Whereas a few courageous Israelis over the years have tried to deal with its other concealed history, most Israelis and what seems like the majority of Americans, of American Jews, have made every effort to deny, avoid, or negate the Palestinian reality. That is why there is no peace.

another excerpt...

"Now, I have some papers here. I'm not good at selling things but, here's a recording made by a group from the conservatory of Arabic music, a C.D. Here is an account of it, and here's some leaflets which will be available at the back of the hall for you to look at, and I recommend it. It's a very worthwhile, humane project to support. It's precisely this will kind of thing that never gets mentioned. They just talk about suicide bombers, right? But the Palestinian kids are very gifted, that there is a marvelously accomplished young Palestinian pianist who's now playing at the best halls all over the world. That there's another one who's only 13 or 14 years old who's considered to be a child prodigy, all of them having connections with this conservatory. That's never mentioned. It's all suicide bombers and fundamentalists. So surely those things need to be assessed.

-------------------------------------------------

AGAIN I SAY WHERE IS THE US MAINSTREAM MEDIA????

My apologies for going on. Here now is the speech:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/26/152245

HERE IS THE FULL TRANSCRIPT:
http://www.democracynow.org/transcripts/edwardsaid.shtml

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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I don't know where the US media is, Wonder...
but I'd assume that it's in the pockets of AIPAC. And, of course, prepared to empty their pockets for Bush, so that they can get more tax cuts.

We need better news agencies in our country. Something like the BBC in Britain.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. How Old Is AIPAC?
because this US mainstream black out on the Palestinian struggle has always been evident. They have rarely received the floor in the US mainstream. This is not a problem that just reared its head three years ago. Although many of including myself seemed to have awakened to it post 9/11.

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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. The Arab American community in the USA...
was less vocal then, and less prominent. I assume that that was part of the reason.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. This is an Anti-Arab country cowtowing to a Pro-Israel
anti-arab lobby. This is in essence why the BOTH side mantra falls short. Not to negate that Arab-Americans must rally for their cause and within that community exists too much disunity, but that the balance of power is grossly unequal and that balance of power challenges and impedes their every step even as they take it, much like White Southern America kept in place jim crow segregation, and then impeded the progress for the equal rights of black americans.

This factor can not be conveniently removed from the equation.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Here in the US, there is...
In, say, Egypt, the opposite is true. The inability of so many to see both sides of the crisis is what is responsible for quite a bit of the inability to make peace between the two sides.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. funny
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 08:34 PM by Wonder
when I read the words of Palestinian scholars I get they do see both sides. are YOU reading the words I have been placing here by a Palestinian scholar... he sees both sides. Israel is the one in control... they withdraw their control... will defray much of the violence... Palestinians even arafat denouce the violence... do you think they do not know the international and human rights laws Israel is violation of... Israel needs to account the violence is in direct correlation to Israels denial... while both sides have done horrible things. It is Israel who is the apartheid state... in essence with more blame falling on the victim. Why because Israel was the victim original with no regard but for their struggle...

If you don't connect the dots from mandate through what you miss is that Israel has always been the aggressor, for the most part. and has maintained it's victimhood to the max now. Enough with Israeli victimhood... Jews are upstanding, influential and productive members almost everywhere in the world... victimhood no longers become them...

In essence israel has gotten away with victimizing another people... until Israel stops (and all the American Jewish who support Pro Israel right wrong) victimizing these people there will be resistance to being disarmed. It is that simple.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I support a complete withdrawal from the Occupied Territories, Wonder...
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 08:47 PM by Darranar
I think that many on the Palestinian side fail to see the Israeli side-and many on the Israeli side fail to see the Palestinian side. Some scholars on both sides certainly can see both sides, and it is due to them that the peace process has not yet died, however close it may be.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. you mean there on ground zero..
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 09:58 PM by Wonder
Yes I agree with that. The people themselves. That is to be expected... It is here on forum that I don't get the failure to see both sides (not you ) but in general...

At ground zero from the civilian perspective both sides are victims of current violence with Palestinians again on the sore side of the stick. They would find it much more so difficult to walk in each others shoes. Over time if the conflict would reconcile... the various indoctrinations need to be addressed in a way to faciliate a healing of both people and a de-hate-trifying as it were. I feel the Palestinian PA and even Arafat understands the militant islamists need to be weeded out. Does Sharon understand he needs to move to center and distance himself from the fanatic policies he himself backs?

Arafat is problematic in that I just do not believe him to be competent not because he is harboring some conspiratorial plot to once and for all push Israel into the sea... that is so ridiculous considering the continued Immigration of Jews into Israel and the continued expansion of settlements. I am not sure Arafat understands what a democratic process is. He is responsible for Jailing and torture whomever he thought threatened his power. That will never do.

The Israeli left and revisions like Pappe certainly understand the controlling mechanisms at play here as well as the harm they have caused. Uri Avnery's new group or Israeli Palestinian committee for Peace which initiated itself in June, is encouraging as it calls for a reconcilation of the history and the need for Palestinian Media... I placed that press release here when I first checkout FA..

The problem here is that Sharon is forcing disarmorment having made no real concessions of his own... he would love an all out civil war. Now Arafat calls for detention with Jericho. Why? No jails in PA... it is pathetic how tied the hands are on the Palestinian side with Sharon coming off like the big fat bully... which he is... With NO concessions from his side... this is going no place positive...

So while both are to blame for this each incident of violence during these last three years... To truly reconcile Israel (I mean her general's and hard core nationalists) has quite a lot of inventory to take.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Agreed...
That's basically my view as well. The one problem I have is that I believe that Arafat is an extremist, if only a pragmatic extremist.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. And Sharon is Nun
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 10:02 PM by Wonder
I reserve my judgement regarding Arafat, in terms of his extremism supporting terrorists, mostly because I am having trouble separating the history from the mythology. It is probably why I will not denounce hamas. I do not feel I have read enough to unspin it the way I know it needs to be unspun.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. That is a legitimate objection...
However, extremist or not, his brutal policies don't make him a good leader of the Palestinians.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Agreed
I do not feel Arafat is an adequate leader. Not based on his performance after the OA was signed. And the electorial process remained within the domain of Israel. A woman emerged who's name I once again have forgetten, barred from the process. Apparently she advocaed RtoR and since it remained on final status somehow it was never discussed or resolved and since Israel had veto power what might have been a perfect good candidate was dismissed. If all the really important issues had been worked out before Oslo was signed, than all could just mind their own stores.

The whole thing is complex --- Israel has controlled most of that land since 67 it naive to expect Sharon is going to let go of anything. All the rhetoric and posturing is almost sadistic. Once one goes below the The posturing a It is almost sadistic as one comes more and more to the history.

A governing body needs to emerge whose powers and direction are no curtailed by Israel, I haven't done focused reading on the PNC, or the NGO's, but governing bodies with full autonomy... It is not worth the time right now... I am tired and feeling like I'm grasping at windmills in my mind for how much I really believe any semblance of true order will emerge. Until Israel just backs off and get's out of the way. I do not believe an emergence of the kind of leaders that are necessary is possible. What was that woman's name?
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Samiha Khalil
!
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It boils down to this:
Whereas a few courageous Israelis over the years have tried to deal with its other concealed history, most Israelis and what seems like the majority of Americans, of American Jews, have made every effort to deny, avoid, or negate the Palestinian reality. That is why there is no peace.

when I say the Palestinian resistance... besides what it obviously resists: the completely and total subjegation of their cultural identity; what it also encompasses is there complete REJECTION of the denials. That Sharon storms the OT's in this fashion defiantly in denial of even the utter hypocracy of his face when he looks in the mirror... Palestinian militants rejects him just at face value. Why? Sharon is in utter denial plundering all of the people in pursuit of one (figuratively) what are we all just blind?

Again. the Palestinian militants can't be in denial because most of their heinous acts have been reported...and recorded and they claim responsibility for many of their terroristic missions. Sharon on other hand is a bold faced butcherous liar...blinded by his victimhood. I really do not know how this man looks at himself in the mirror and parades himself on and off planes like the man of the hour.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I agree completely about Sharon...
The only thing in that post that I object to is calling Palestinian terrorism resistance. It is as misleading as calling Israeli terrorism security.
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Resistance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. good point
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. Thank you, Wonder....
Excellent post and thanks for the references!
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. My Pleasure, Equinox.
Good references do tend to help untangle the yarns just a bit. In some cases one can unravel them entirely.
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. Ahhh...but the revolution will not be televised....
as always.


Today we are all Palestinians.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fifty Years of Dispossession
Edited on Sat Aug-02-03 05:40 PM by Wonder
This essay is places the RW Likud and Israeli Propaganda into a needed perspective. It gives a retrospective overview of on a number of issues, and highlights who imbalanced the reporting on Israel is wherein Palestinian perspectives are virtually absent, as if within the equations Palestinians do not even exist. Here are some excerpt:

snip
In the United States, celebrations of Israel's fifty years as a state have tried to project an image of the country that went out of fashion with the Palestinian Intifada (1987 92): a pioneering state, full of hope and promise for the survivors of the Nazi Holocaust, a haven of enlightened liberalism in a sea of Arab fanaticism and reaction. Last spring, for instance, CBS broadcast a two hour prime time program hosted by Michael Douglas and Kevin Costner, featuring movie stars such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, Winona Ryder, and Kathy Bates, who recited passages from Golda Meir minus, of course, her most celebrated remark that there were no Palestinians. None of these luminaries are particularly known for their Middle Eastern expertise or enthusiasm, though all of them in one way or another praised Israel's greatness and enduring achievements. There was even time for a cameo appearance by Bill Clinton, who provided perhaps the least edifying, most atavistic note of the evening by complimenting Israel, "a small oasis," for "making a once barren desert bloom" and for "building a thriving democracy in hostile terrain."

snip

That the U.S. celebration simply omitted any mention of the Palestinians indicated also how remorselessly an ideological mind set can hold on, despite the facts, despite years of news and headlines, despite an extraordinary, if ultimately unsuccessful, effort to keep effacing Palestinians from the picture of Israel's untroubled sublimity. If they're not mentioned, they don't exist.

Snip

Even when there is a vague, buried awareness of the facts, as is the case with a frontpage New York Times story on April 23 by Ethan Bronner, the Palestinian nakba, or catastrophe, is characterized as a semi fictional event (dutiful quotation marks around the word "catastrophe," for instance) caused by no one in particular.

snip

After 1948, Israeli policy toward the Palestinians clearly envisioned that community's disappearance or its political nullity, since it was clear that the contradiction between the two sides would always remain insurmountable. Israel, in short, could not become a secular liberal state, despite the efforts of two generations of publicists to make it so.

snip

After the Oslo Accords were signed in September l993 conditions for Palestinians steadily worsened. It became impossible for Palestinians to travel freely between one place and another, Jerusalem was declared off limits, and massive building projects transformed the country's geography. In everything, the distinction between Jew and non-Jew is scrupulously preserved. The most perspicacious analysis of the legal situation obtaining after Oslo is Raja Shehadeh's in his book From Occupation to Interim Accods: Israel and the Palestinian Territories (Kluwer, 1997), an important work that demonstrates the carefully preserved continuity between Israeli negotiating strategy during the Oslo process and its land occupation policy established in the Occupied Territories from the early 1970s.

snip

The Palestinians, as much as the Israelis, helped in giving the false impression through, among other things, the highly publicised media image of the Arafat-Rabin handshake, that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was resolved. No serious attempt was made to remind the world that one of the main causes of the conflict after 1967, the Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territory, remained intact. This is not to speak of the other basic unresolved questions of the return of refugees, compensation, and the issue of Jerusalem" (p.131).

snip
Unquestionably the moral dilemma faced by anyone trying to come to terms with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a deep one. Israeli Jews are not white settlers of the stripe that colonised Algeria or South Africa, though similar methods have been used. They are correctly seen as victims of a long history of Western, largely Christian anti-Semitic persecution that culminated in the scarcely comprehensible horrors of the Nazi holocaust. To Palestinians, however, their role is that of victims of the victms. This is why Western liberals who openly espoused the anti-apartheid movement, or that of the Nicaraguan Sandanistas, or Bosnia, or East Timor, or American civil rights, or Armenian commemoration of the Turkish genocide, or many other political causes of that kind, have shied away from openly endorsing Palestinian self-determination. As for Israel's nuclear policy, or its legally underwritten campaign of torture, or of using civilians as hostages, or of refusing to give Palestinians permits to build on their own land in the West Bank -- the case is never made in the liberal public sphere, partly out of fear, partly out of guilt.

more....

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/1948/said50y.htm
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Equinox Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
36. Thank you....I have much to read.
n/t
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-03 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
39. Bush and Sharon are pretty low...
but I have to admit that this whole staged up shit and setting the Palestinians up was really low. They had the entire world's hopes up.
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mecca Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
40. Wow!!
The more I learn about the Israelis and Palestinians conflict the more I think the Israelis are really the ones who do the instigating - they instigate and provoke and then use the conflict to take more land away from the rightful owners. This is very sad and I don't know why the US supports it. Everyone knows the US is wrong to support it so why do they do it, I really don't know.
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