UN envoy: J'lem attack is war crime, but can't let terror affect Gaza plan

[MikeGalos]

By Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondent, Haaretz Service and News Agencies

The United Nations envoy to the Middle East, Terje Rode-Larsen, on Sunday condemned the suicide bombing in Jerusalem that claimed eight lives as a war crime, Army Radio reported.

But Larsen also cautioned that Palestinian terrorism should not be allowed to hijack Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to evacuate the settlements in the Gaza Strip, the radio said.

The suicide bomber, sent by Fatah-aligned Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, struck on Egged bus No. 14 at little after 8:30 A.M., killing the eight and wounding another 66 people.

Speaking earlier in the day from a Jerusalem hospital, where he was visiting some of those wounded in the attack, Health Minister Dan Naveh said that, "On the day that the International Court opens its deliberations on the security fence, we will be burying our dead."

<More at: http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/396983.html >

[MikeGalos]

1. Well, at least the UN finally sees

that Arafat and his fellow butchers in Fatah and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades are war criminals who murder innocent children for press coverage.

Now, I'll be really impressed when Arafat and his allies get called to the ICG to answer for murdering innocent civilians. But I'd say that'll happen about as soon as the Saudi royalty supports religious freedom...

[Jack Rabbit]

2. The proper place to try Arafat and the others is the ICC

The International Criminal Court is intended as a permanent tribunal to try war crimes and crimes against humanity. It is established by the Rome Statute is is based on the Geneva Conventions and other conventions of modern international law. The purpose of the Rome Statute is to hold individuals responsible for heinous acts such as was committing today in Jerusalem.

The alternative would be to start a special tribunal for the purpose of trying war crimes in the Levant, similar to those which exist for war crimes in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Such tribunals have made headway in establishing the legitimacy of international law and setting precedents for future cases involving war crimes and crimes against humanity.

In spite of the discomfort the US right wing feels toward international law -- or even perhaps because of it -- it is a worthy cause to support.

See also this thread in the Foreign Affairs forum.

[Muddleoftheroad]

3. A trial would be a farce

Israel does not get a fair hearing in world bodies. They would be foolish to bother trying.

[MikeGalos]

4. Either would work for me

I'd just like to see decades of murdered civilians get some justice and an open, public international trial of those responsible would be a good start no matter the venue.

[Blayde Starrfyre]

5. War criminals?

How can they be "war criminals." They have no state, therefore there is no war, therefore there are no war crimes. It sounds like you are adopting the Bush doctrine of labelling your enemies with inapplicable terms ("illegal combatants").

[MikeGalos]

6. The United Nations envoy to the Middle East, Terje Rode-Larsen

called them war criminals. I just happen to agree.

[Blayde Starrfyre]

8. But why?

When they get a state, and when war is declared, they can be branded war criminals. If they just get a state, they can be accused of crimes against humanity. As it stands now, the suicide bombings are just crimes. I mean on whatever scale we're talking about, even 9/11, it's just a crime if it's done without the act of a state. What's the justification for labelling it a "war crime," other than political gain through demonization?

[Jack Rabbit]

9. That Palestinians are stateless is irrelevant

That should be no impediment to trying the perpetrators of suicide bombings for war crimes. This is a war; to say otherwise is ridiculous. At least the international conventions should apply, including those against targeting civilians.

This has nothing to do with merits of the case for a Palestinian state. This simply has to do what is proper and legal conduct in an armed conflict and what is not.

Those responsible for war crimes should be prosecuted. It shouldn't matter if their cause is just in principle or whether they are on the winning side.

[Blayde Starrfyre]

11. My problem

I am sensitive to phony wars after what we have seen recently in America. War can only be declared by the Senate. Hence, there was no war in Afghanistan, and there was no war in Iraq. Yet Bush has still used the "war" justification to usurp our rights and take far too many powers for himself. I think the world needs a reaffirmation of what war is - indeed there is a metaphorical war in Israel, but not a legal war.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. I understand your problem

First of all, both houses of Congress have the authority to declare war. The last time they exercised that right was on December 8, 1941, when Congress declared war on Japan. Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War of 1991, the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and several smaller interventions too numerous to name were taken without a formal declaration of war.

However, that's not the issue here. The issue is whether standards and conventions concerning war and peace can and should be enforced. They won't be if we don't try and shouldn't be if we don't enforce them fairly.

Consequently, if we are going to call Israel on using the fence to illegally annex land or for illegally settling occupied territory, we should also call the Palestinians for targeting Israeli civilians.

Also, returning to the issue of Mr. Bush and what might best be called the PNAC Wars, if we are going to call Osama bin Laden on his acts of terrorism and Saddam on his war crimes, then we should also call Bush on his. I believe there is a case for putting Bush, Blair and their aides before an international tribunal. Should Congress fail to remove him from office or the American people fail to do so or should Bush simply once again refuse to respect the will of the American electorate, then that is a case that should be pursued.

[drdon326]

10. You mean there's hope for the moron??

Larsen , as you may remember , didnt give a ff over the
terrorstinian atrocities but got all sanctimonious over
the buildings in jenin.

Tie his ass to an israeli bus for a few days.

[tinnypriv]

14. I suggest you consult his record

Since he has consistently and unwaveringly opposed Palestinian terrorism. Period.

Calling him a "moron", without basis, is slander.

He does work for the UN, but I can't see that being a problem, since given that this is a progressive forum I don't think that should be sufficient reason to draw knee jerk responses about his character.

[Jack Rabbit]

7. That's one of the advantages of the Rome Statute

It tries individuals for crimes, not states. It will only step in if the authorities responsible for the individuals fail to do anything effective. So far, the PA has not dealt with this matter effectively. They have continually allowed militant groups like Hamas, IJ and the al Aska Martyrs Brigade to usurp their authority to make war. Whether that is by design rather than by accident is a fair question.

In any event, Arafat may be held responsible for his failure.

[tinnypriv]

15. "finally"

This is not the first time.

Look it up.

[tinnypriv]

13. For his full remarks on Voice of Israel (transcribed)

ANNOUNCER: The UN special envoy to the Middle East, Terje Larsen called on the Palestinian Authority to bring, quote, the "war criminals", as he termed them, who carried out this morning's terrorist attack to justice.

(Begin tape)

RODE-LARSEN: First and foremost, erm, my thoughts today goes to the families and to the victims of this... terrible terrorist act.. this war crime, which it really, is, there is no cause which can justify such appalling crimes and once again I will use this opportunity to urge the Palestinian Authority to take all steps neccessary to bring those who plan, facilitate and carry out these attacks to justice.

These, war criminals, these terrorists must not be able to hijack a future peace process and to halt those courageous steps and initiatives which the Israeli Prime Minister, mister Sharon has taken in calling for a withdrawal from Gaza. But what it shows, and I will repeat it, is that it is important for the Palestinian Authority to do everything to ensure that, erm, these people are brought to justice, and that such terrorist attacks are stopped, forever.

(end tape)

ANNOUNCER: Even though the weekly cabinet meeting began in Jerusalem after the terrorist attack had already taken place across town, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon made no mention of the bombing in his opening comments during the photo opportunity. However later behind closed doors the Prime Minister is said to have reacted by saying:

"The Palestinians are never saddened when they kill Jews"

(Source: Kol Yisrael, News Bulletin, 22 February 2003)