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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 12:58 PM
Original message
French Jews' immigration at highest level in 30 years
More on the "where Jews should go" question.

Jewish immigration to Israel from France - where anti-Semitic incidents are on the rise - has reached its highest level in more than three decades, immigration officials said Tuesday. The Jewish Agency, a quasi-governmental organization, said 2,236 French Jews immigrated between January and the end of October 2004, up from 1,860 during the same period in 2003 and higher than the full-year figure for any year since 1972 when 2,356 French immigrants arrived.

France has experienced a recent wave of anti-Semitic incidents, coinciding with the four year round of violence between Israelis and Palestinians. French Interior Ministry figures show 510 anti-Jewish acts or threats in the first six months of 2004 - compared to 593 for all of 2003.

There has also been growing friction between the 600,000 strong French Jewish community - the third-largest in the world - and France's Muslim population of almost 5 million.

Presenting the figures to journalists Tuesday, Jewish Agency chief Sallai Meridor was reluctant to link the rise in immigration to "the recent developments in France."

Haaretz
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good....they should GTF outta there.
.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yup,they're MUCH safer in Israel
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:48 PM
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3. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 02:56 PM
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4. Deleted message
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. yep - safe as houses in Israel
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QueerJustice Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. spent 2 weeks in Israel recently...
Was walking home from numerous gay clubs and bars in Tel Aviv (its legal in that part of the mideast) at 2am , Dizingoff street was packed...restaurants , clubs , cofee houses...walked around milling around,cruising around....NEVER felt this safe in downtown Johannesburg,....NEVER...
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QueerJustice Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. ---or Paris...
...New York ,Sydney or Rome..(now Barcelonaq DID feel safe).....


......but NOT San Juan Puerto Rico...or New Orleans....
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. i always feel safe in europe
and i lived for years in new york.
no worries.
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QueerJustice Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. There aint no bashings EVER in Tel Aviv....
Can`t say the same about New York...
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QueerJustice Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. ...I never feel safe in Europe...
...if not bashed for being gay chances are I may be bashed for being jewish...

..Jews with kippot have been advised not to wear them in FraNCE....
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. the neo nazi's in Europe will like this .....
:(
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. It Remains, My Friend, A Mere Third Of One Percent
Hardly a tectonic shift....
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Just stirring the pot, Sir.
Not planning to consume any myself.
Nice to see you with us again.
:hi:
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You Are A Devil, Sir
"Misanthropy is how the Devil falls in love."
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. Overlooked
Edited on Fri Dec-24-04 12:36 AM by Lithos
Several points are being overlooked here which makes this more than just a case for naked anti-Semitism.

1) Is that the majority of French Jews and French Muslims came from Algeria and North Africa during the 1960's and essentially live in adjoining neighborhoods.

2) Statistics have shown that until the past few years, attacks on Jews have steadily decreased to historically low levels. And while there has been an increase, most have been caused by an increase in friction between French Jews and French Muslims generally resulting from the Israeli/Palestine situation.

3) If anything, France is having a greater problem dealing with anti-Muslim behavior principally driven by the large and persistant cultural separation between the Muslim community and the secular French community. Hate attacks against Muslims have been far greater and much more violent. Hatred has also been prominanently featured in material handed out by LePen supporters. Most of the outcry against the new laws trying to enforce secularism in schools has been against head-scarves and not kippa.

While I'm not trying to say Muslims are a greater victim, the issue remains that secular France is having a significant issue dealing with the rather large amount of people who have chosen to remain culturally separate inside of France's borders.

See: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/felina/doc/israelpalest/anti_islam.htm

4) For all of the press, there does not seem to be a concordant rise in Aliyah from France.

http://www.jr.co.il/pictures/israel/history/a040728c.txt

According to the Israeli government, 7,024 immigrants have come from France since 2000 - from a low of 1,160 in 2001 to a high of 2,385 in 2002. In the first half of 2004, 647 French Jews immigrated to Israel.


And from this article:

http://www.jafi.org.il/agenda/2001/english/wk3-43/11.asp

I gather that the second half of the year is not the main time people make Aliyah, so I doubt the number is not as high as they claim. I also note that their figure of 2,356 in 1972 is incorrect considering the official numbers claim 2,385 in 2002 adding further doubts to the veracity of the numbers.


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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. One Other Element Worth Recalling, Sir
The bad blood between the French and Algerian Arabs in particular is much more recent, and much bloodier, than in any other European country. The Algerian rebellion was long and exceedingly brutal on both sides.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Absolutely
One only needs to rent "The Battle of Algiers" to get a glimpse.

Thanks for recalling this excellent point.

L-
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Flagg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Most of the Algerians who emigrated to France were harki.
People loyal to France who had chosen to defend a French Algeria during the "war".

That's another element worth recalling.



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