Palestinian textbooks: Where is all that 'incitement'?

[Tinoire]

Palestinian textbooks: Where is all that 'incitement'

Roger Avenstrup International Herald Tribune Saturday, December 18, 2004

JERUSALEM Palestinian textbooks contain incitement to hatred of Israel, right? Both President George W. Bush and President Bill Clinton have said so. Zionist groups constantly lobby European foreign ministries to stop support for Palestinian textbooks on that basis, and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon affirmed it at a recent Likud party meeting.

Detailed analyses of the textbooks have been done by research institutes. The U.S. Consulate General in Jerusalem commissioned studies from the Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information (IPCRI), and in Europe the Georg Eckert Institute facilitated research. Research papers have also been published in international fora such as the Hebrew University's Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace, the Palestine-Israel Journal of Politics, Economics and Culture, and presented at the Oslo Coalition on Freedom of Religion or Belief.

At the political level, a U.S. Senate subcommittee on Palestinian education and the Political Committee of the European Parliament have both held hearings on the matter. No country's textbooks have been subjected to as much close scrutiny as the Palestinian.

The findings? It turns out that the original allegations were based on Egyptian or Jordanian textbooks and incorrect translations. Time and again, independently of each other, researchers find no incitement to hatred in the Palestinian textbooks.

The European Union has issued a statement that the new textbooks are free of inciting content and the allegations were unfounded. The IPCRI 2003 ((Israel-Palestinian Center for Research and Information}}report states that the overall orientation of the curriculum is peaceful and does not incite to hatred or violence against Israel and the Jews, and the 2004 report states that there are no signs of promoting hatred toward Israel, Judaism or Zionism, nor toward the Western Judeo-Christian tradition or values.

Yet Sharon now claims that the Palestinian textbooks are a greater threat than terrorism. If that is so, education for peace and conflict resolution has become the greatest threat to Israel. Maybe it is: What little independent research has been done on Israeli textbooks, together with the recent New Profile report on the militarization of the Israeli education system, gives grounds for serious concern about what is happening to future generations on that side of the wall. Peace might feel threatening to a war-ingrained identity.

(snip)

http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/12/17/opinion/edavenstrup.html

===

The Myth of Incitement in Palestinian Textbooks
January 30, 2004
By MIFTAH

Since 1998, the “Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace” has persistently published reports claiming that Palestinian textbooks incite hatred against Israel and the Jewish people. While the Center claims “to encourage the development and fostering of peaceful relations between peoples and nations, by establishing a climate of tolerance and mutual respect founded on the rejection of violence as a means to resolving conflicts,” its attitude towards the Palestinian National Authority and the Palestinian Curriculum has been described as prosecutorial in nature. Being overly suspicious of their produced reports is well advised given that the Center’s first director, Itamar Marcus, is a right wing Israeli supporter and resident of the West Bank settlement of Efrat.

The Center’s work reveals a deeply flawed methodology aimed at misleading the reader. Furthermore, evidence reveals that the Center is fair, balanced, and understanding towards Israeli textbooks, but tendentious on Palestinian books. In short, the purpose is clearly to indict the textbooks and the PNA, rather than analyze and understand the content of the books. Were the Center to take a similar approach in other countries, including Israel, it could easily find comparable material.

Studies of Palestinian textbooks have revealed that any strong anti-Israel and anti-Semitic material in the curriculum comes from books that the Palestinians did not author and are replacing. (Ironically, these same books that were actually authored by Jordanians and Egyptians were distributed by Israel in east Jerusalem after only removing the cover.) Furthermore, books that were written by the Palestinian Authority in 1994, 2000, and 2001 are free of such material. Information gathered by the EU missions on the ground, as well as independent studies carried out by Israeli and Palestinian academics and educators that have examined the new textbooks, show that allegations against the new textbooks funded by EU members have proven unfounded.

Below are the various reports and studies conducted on Palestinian textbooks exonerating them of inciting hatred towards Israel and the Jewish people:


Clarification from the Ministry of Education Regarding the Palestinian Curriculum and Textbooks

Comparing Palestinian and Israeli Textbooks

What Did You Study In School Today, Palestinian Child?

If You Are For Truth, You Seek The Truth First

Israel or Palestine: Who Teaches What History?

Israeli Textbooks and Children’s Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs

The Continuing Debate on Incitement in the Palestinian Curriculum

The Politics of Palestinian Textbooks

(snip)

http://www.miftah.org/display.cfm?DocId=3060&CategoryId=21

[Tinoire]

1. About the IPCRI (Israel/Palestine Center for Research & Information)

IPCRI, founded in Jerusalem in 1988, is the only joint Israeli-Palestinian public policy think-tank in the world. It is devoted to developing practical solutions for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

==
Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information - was launched in 1988 in order to promote dialogue at various levels between the Israeli and Palestinian civil societies. As such it is one of the oldest of the bridge-building initiatives and also one of the very few to survive the onslaught of the Al Aqsa intifada and its associated restrictions placed by both parties on dialogue. IPCRI was founded on the principle that it should be a joint partnership between Israeli and Palestinian intellectuals, reflecting a

conviction that peace-building must similarly be a joint and bi-partisan effort(assisted by the international community). IPCRI, with its active information activities and joint Israeli-Palestinian forums, is unique in that it is the only Israeli-Palestinian joint research center in the region.From the start it was based on what was then, and still is, a unique premise: IPCRI should be a truly joint Israeli-Palestinian organization with its governance and management built on co-leadership.Consequently it was set up with a Board having two co-chairmen and a management with two co-directors. In spite of the obvious complications inherent in this system it has been maintained throughout IPCRI’s existence.

===

Lots of good stuff here!

Water Conference Powerpoint presentations

and a Database just FULL of great stuff:

IPCRI Database

1. Historical Peace Proposals and Agreements

2. Pre-1948 Papers and Proposals

3. Palestinian Political Documents and Statements

4. Israeli Political Documents and Statements

5. United Nations Resolutions

6. Arab League Initiatives and Statements

7. Analysis and Commentary

9. Israeli Government Documents

10. Palestinian Authority Documents



IPCRI Policy Papers

1. THE PARADOXICAL LOGIC OF BREAKING THE PARADOXICAL TRAP - Israel's Catch-22 Policies - Reoccupation in Order to Disengage - October 4, 2004
Click Here to Read the Hebrew Version
Click Here to Read the English Version




1. Historical Peace Proposals and Agreements:

A. Israeli- Palestinian Joint Sponsored Peace Proposals and Relating Documents:

- Ayalon-Nusseibeh Statement of Principles

- Post Taba Israeli Palestinian Joint Statement (January 2001)

- The Trilateral statement issued by the US, Israel, Palestinians on the Camp David Summit (July 2000)

- Letter From Yasser Arafat to President Clinton (January 1998)

- Wye River Memorandum, (October 1998)

-THE Israeli Palestinian Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (Sep1995) AGREEMENT ON THE GAZA STRIP AND THE JERICHO AREA (May 1994)

- Exchange of letters between Arafat and Rabin (Sept<1>. 1993)

- Declaration of Principles on Interim Self Government Arrangements (Sept<1>. 1993)

- LETTER OF INVITATION TO MADRID PEACE CONFERENCE (Oct 1991)

- The Carter Dayan Understanding (Oct 1977)

- Joint US Soviet Statement on the ME (Oct 1977)

- Secretary of State Rogers A Lasting Peace in the Middle East (Dec 1969)


B. Israeli-Jordanian Peace Agreements and Relating Documents:

- Israel Jordan Peace Agreement (Oct 1994)

- THE WASHINGTON DECLARATION (July 1994)

- Israel Jordan Common Agenda (Sept 1993)

- Jordanian Israeli General Armistice Agreement (April 1949)


C. Egyptian-Israeli Peace Agreements and Relating Documents:

- Egyptian Israeli Peace Treaty (March 1979)

- Camp David Accords (Sept<1>. 1978)

- President Anwar Sadat Address to the Knesset (Nov 1977)

- Prime Minister Menacham Begin Speech to the Knesset response to Sadat (Nov 1977)

- Aide memoire presented to Israel and Egypt by Ambassador Gunnar Jarring (Feb 1971)

- Egyptian Israel General Armistice Agreement (Feb 1949)


D. Israeli - Lebanese Agreements:

- THE TAEF AGREEMENT (1989)

- Lebanese Israeli General Armistice Agreement (March 1949)


E. Israeli- Syrian Agreements:

- ISRAELI Syrian General Armistice Agreement (July 1949)


F. Arab Sponsored Peace Proposals

-The Arab Peace Initiative (March 2002)

- The Jordanian Egyptian Proposal (April 2001)


G. American Sponsored Peace Proposals:

- The Tenet Plan (June 2001)

-THE MITCHELL REPORT (April 2001)


H. Quartet Sponsored Peace Proposals:

- EU Plan - Precursor to the Road Map - September 2002

-Road Map (April, 2003)


I. European Sponsored Peace Proposals

Moratinos Non Paper (Jan 2001)


2. Pre-1948 Papers and Proposals:

- United States Proposal for Temporary United Nations Trusteeship for Palestine (March 1948)

- British White Paper (1939)

- The Peel and Palestine Partition Commission Partition Plans Maps (1938)

- The White Paper of 1922 (Churchill White Paper) (1922)

- British White Paper (June 1922)

- The Palestine Mandate by the Council of the League of Nations (1922)

- The King Crane Commission Report (Aug 1919)

- The Palestine Mandate (1917)

- The Balfour Declaration (1917)

- The Sykes Picot Agreement (1916)


3. Palestinian Political Documents and Statements:

- Mahmoud Abbas Speech to the PLC (April 2003)

- CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF PALESTINE (March 2003)

-Palestinian Responses to Camp David

- Palestinian Declaration of Independence (Nov<1>. 1988)

- The HAMAS Charter (Aug 1988)

- The PNC Program of 1974 (June 1974)

- THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER (July 1968)

- The Fatah Constitution (1964)


4. Israeli Political Documents and Statements:

- Speech of Prime Minister Sharon On Disengagement Vote, October 25, 2004

- Israeli Disengagement Plan

- Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush's letters in full

- Ariel Sharon’s speech at the Herzliya Conference on December 18th, 2003

- THE DECLARATION OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL (May 14, 1948)

- Statement by the Arab League upon the Declaration of the State of Israel (May 1948)

- Review of the Military Situation in the Jerusalem Theater (March 1948)

- Statement of the Zionist Organization Regarding Palestine Paris Peace Conference (Feb 1919)

- Israel’s Peace Initiative (May 1989)


5. United Nations Resolutions

- United Nations Resolution 1405 (2002) Jenin

- United Nations Resolution 1403 (2002)

- United Nations Resolution 1402 (2002)

- United Nations Resolution 1397 (2002)

-United Nations Resolution 4686 (1992) Removing Definition of Zionism = Racism

- United Nations SC Resolution 425 (1978) Israeli Invasion of Lebanon

- UN General Assembly Resolution 3379 (Nov 1975) Zionism is Racism

- United Nations Resolution 338 (Oct 1973)

- UNITED Nations Resolution 225 (May1968)

- United Nations Resolution 242 (Nov 1967)

- United Nations General Assembly Resolution 997 (Nov 1956)

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 95 (Sept 1951)

- United Nations General Assembly Resolution 302 (Dec 1949)

- United Nations General Assembly Resolution 303 (Dec 1949)

- United Nations General Assembly Resolution 194 (Dec 1948)

- United Nations General Assembly Resolution 212 (Nov 1948)

- United Nations Security Council Resolution 62 (Nov 1948)

- UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (Nov 1947)

- United Nations UNSCOP Report (Sept 1947)



6. Arab League Initiatives and Statements

- Khartoum Resolutions (Sep 1967)

- DECLARATION ISSUED Arab League at its Second Session (Sept 1964)



7. Analysis and Commentary

- Two Years of Intifada - Ben Kaspit - Maariv, September 2002

- Old Guard, Young Guard - Khalil Shikaki

- Arafat and the Anatomy of a Revolt - Yazed Sayegh



9. Israeli Government Documents

- Israeli Government Disengagement Plan

10. Palestinian Authority Documents

- Palestinian Basic Law

- Palestinian Draft Constitution - Third Draft

[Forkboy]

2. What are you doing?

Trying to make Palestinians seem human or something? :spank:

[Tinoire]

3. Trying to inject a few FACTS to combat the insane propaganda

that's been running amuck these last few years and fueling the hatred and wars we're seeing.

But heck, what's a few million dead people when weighed against "the right to bear false witness" and incite others into error :shrug:

Oh lol... Can you tell I'm rested? I feel like Sophia in "The Color Purple". Do you recall the scene:

"Sophia's back children, pass the mashed potatoes and peas"



I's back ;)

[Forkboy]

4. This forum is no place for facts

please report to the nearest re-education camp. :)

[Tinoire]

5. Sardonic laugh...

I think that may come soon the way things are going in this country!

But the silver lining is that you'll be there too :)

[Forkboy]

6. I suspect my room is already being reserved

If I'm doing anything right at all :D

[pelsar]

7. PA....

actually the PA has come a long way in terms of what they teach their children in school and its a very good sign.....

but there is a long way to go, within Syrian, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt etc.(all of whom have an affect on the area). Israel is probably the only country in the world where its neighbors teach its chidren in a systematic manner that they are less than humans....

just a side info on the education issue: the palesetenians seem to prefer Al-Jazeer TV to their own for the news......

[Tinoire]

12. Very good Pelsar

I'm impressed. You've come some ways since I first began reading your posts. Congratulations for having an open mind not closed off to weighing facts.

Honest question, have you ever done any reading on Israeli textbooks? They have a ways to go also and to this day still portray Arabs very negatively. There are many examples of Israeli textbooks, mostly readers for young kids, full of "an Israeli was walkig down the street minding his/her own business when he/she ran into an Arab". Those have got to go because they poison minds just as much and teach young children that Arabs are bad people and part of the cockroach family. The old Jewish scientist I used to work for once told me he would never again step foot in Israel because he was ashamed of how the Israelis treated the Palestinians worst than dogs- said it was the first ever time he was ashamed to be a Jew- the exact quote was that they treated them worse than dogs and raise their children to think that way. Of course, that's nothing so unusual in a colonial system. The French did the same thing with the Algerians and the Americans the same thing with the Negro, the Jew and anyone who wasn't of the right blood-stock. Still makes it wrong though and something to be fought.

Here's hoping for a brighter future because the Israeli/Palestinian is now passe in that it has already inflamed the rest of the world but it would be a small positive step if the problem were solved.

[pelsar]

18. Tinoire......

actually I 'm pretty consistent in my posts (or so I like to believe....) i believe the expression is calling a spade a spade. I strongly believe in seeing our warts as well as seeing our good points-without the "padding", and that goes for the palestenians as well.

as far as the israeli school books go, I can only go by the secular system: I did the easiest thing possible: i asked my 13 year olds and their friends what they think and know of the palestenians, and what they learn in school. (and i went through their books and found nothing other than the usual zionist stuff)

the answer was quite interesting, in school they learn nothin about them, They know there is going to be peace when the war ends, but they have no real opinion on the palestenians. What they actually learn is via TV and the very few articles they read. (there was a peace studies, during oslo, but that is long gone

Now my example is obviously tainted as these kids are white, middle class, etc.

If for a second you take a look at the vast amount of different types of relationships we have today with the palestenians your not going to get a myoptic viewpoint:

we kill each other, we work with each other, we meet in Tel Aviv, Geneva, etc, we share laughs at checkpoints, we yell at each other, we piss the hell out of them, we share lunches togeather, we invest in factories where we take advantage of their cheap labor, we email each other...the interactions are complex...

if I have a single major complaint, its the one sided aspect of the palestenian/arab states media. Palestenians are interviewed on israeli TV, (just saw a israeli tv interviewer, interviewing al aska, christians, muslims in Hebron etc...and they talk very clear, intelligently etc and know the interviewer by name)...but i cant recall even once when palestenian TV/radio went an interviewed the "israeli in the street"

that to me, and many of us is important....it all of a sudden dehumanizes the israeli.

as far as treating them like "dogs".....i really dont know of any experiences that i've witnessed. To be sure, since Intifada II every palestenian/arab is suspected of being a potential suicide bomber, but that is simply a natural reaction to our present situation. But like I said our interactions with them is wide and varied, it would be simplistic to generalize so widly.

to call us "colonizers" is not really a realistic description. We dont see ourselves as "colonizing a distant land for the greater glory of the mother land"....we see israel as bascially a defense against a "neanderthal mentality that permates the world" and keeps antisemetism alive-get rid of nationalism/ethnithism/anti semetism etc and all will be well. In the meantime, we not going to relax our guard.

[Tinoire]

31. Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else

since I haven't been perusing this forum very much these last few months. I just had the impression that you were more of a hardliner a few months ago but again, I could be confusing you with someone else.

the answer was quite interesting, in school they learn nothin about them,

that is true but my point was, not what Israeli kids are officially taught in school, but what the depiction of Arabs in their reading books that paints Arabs as bad people, thieves and murderers by always putting them in those roles- kind of like what Hollywood has been doing for years. I gave you an example off the top of my head and when I get my star back will try to find an old post of mine where I illustrated that point with sourced references.

if I have a single major complaint, its the one sided aspect of the palestenian/arab states media. Palestenians are interviewed on israeli TV, (just saw a israeli tv interviewer, interviewing al aska, christians, muslims in Hebron etc...and they talk very clear, intelligently etc and know the interviewer by name)...but i cant recall even once when palestenian TV/radio went an interviewed the "israeli in the street"

You must admit that Israelis have a for more extensive media outlet than the Palestinians. That accounts for some of it. Also, there are many Israelis who want to be fair and whose intentions are in the right place. Contrary though, to your assertion, I have seen Israelis interviewed on Palestinian TV/radio but sadly, they're branded as being self-hating Jews/traitors. Daniel Barenboim immediately came to mind for braving the Israeli government & censors to give many interviews and concerts in Palestine. There are many others.

The quote I gave you was from my old boss. He had planned for a long vacation but at the last minute had to switch destinations because of a natural disaster that took place. Knowing he was older, knowing what Israel meant to Jews, I suggested Israel and that was the answer he gave me.

I wish I could remember the name of a very famous Jewish composer, Holocaust survivor, who went to Israel and said he would never ever again step foot in the country again because he too was ashamed.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=214129&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0">Jewish MP Gerald Kaufman has said the same.

I hope you won't think I'm picking on Israel. I'm very anti-imperialist and anti-colonialism. I feel very sorry for the Jewish people that our good colonial puppeteers didn't give them a nice fat chunk of Germany. Unfortunately, what's done is done and both parties must find a way out of this dreadful situation. I would feel a LOT better about Israel if a right-wing madman weren't in charge and negotiations had historically been done in good faith instead of what I see as a continuous 60 year land grab.

[pelsar]

34. what i know.....

I actually went through my kids books, the ones I would read to them in bed....most of the books were given to us, and honestly there is not an arab in any of them (for good or for bad). I would however suspect the more religous ones have what your talking about, since they are more bible oriented but thats another "world.

The TV interviews I'm talking about is actually very important as it really shows us who the palestenians are. During the talk shows they are always very polite and barely get a word in next to the noisey agressive israelis, but its amazing how it modifes our view of them.....thats whats needed, not the "do gooder" but the average israeli, the soldier, the mom, the everyday people, for it is they that will make the connections, and here in my mind the palestenians fail, because this is the crucial part where we actually see each other......

as far as israel embarrasing some jews.....i can easily see it, Israel is a rough place where difficult choices are made. For the traditional cultural jew of past, agressiveness, which brings with it hurting others, was never part of the traditions/history and no doubt makes many (incl me) uncomfortable. It reminds us of how we were treated.

and mr sharon....well its said in israel that only the policitians on the right can make peace, and theres a lot to that. Begin was a statesman and was able to see the greater good, sharon is obviously not made of the same material, still if he pulls the settlements out of gaza I'll cheer him on....

I have no problem with critizim of israel or its policies in principle... i do get rather pissed when the wrong information is used, or massive exageration to the point of "word rape' (redefining a word for a political end)....or people being judgemental when its obvious that either the facts arent clear, the situation is not clear or they simply dont understand the environment (this usually relates to shootings....-some are neglegant, some are careless, some are murderess, some are fast reactions to a threat, some involve proper procedures etc etc etc

and america/UK/Russia was not going to give the jews anything more than the minimum after WWII..even then the various countries didnt want the jews (they actually had good reason as they were worried about their own returning soldiers....). Geopolitics is cruel....

at anyrate, the palestenains sound upbeat now...but they've got a real problem with the various gangs running around....wouldnt surprise me if at one point that asked our help to get rid of some...stranger things have happend out here.

[Forkboy]

20. There was a story just last night on the news here

about how PA television has been getting away from the incitement and hatred since the start of this year.People on both sides pointed to how there's been a drastic change in the content and language used.Better late than never,and it's a start.Hopefully it will continue.

[pelsar]

23. it changes with the times....

actually under arafat it was used as a gage by our "arab specialists" on TV whos job it was to interpert the various changes in the palestenian govt....(sometimes different channels would have the exact opposite interperations). The amount of incitement would go up and down depending on ...whatever.

at anyrate, from what I understand the atmosphere in the PA is cautiously optimistic.....It seems that we were all waiting for arafat to leave the scene to make room for change.

and side note: why they dont interview israelis? i guess because its not worth risking their lives....who know which of the various gangbanger/jihadnikim would decide that thats treason and the interview deserves to suffer.....at least thats my guess given the pressure on the media people there, both local and foreign

[QueerJustice]

35. Why interview Israeli`s??

THAT WOULD MEAN BALANCE....TUT TUT....

[drdon326]

41. "This forum is no place for facts"

Really ??.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x82369#82422



"Go ahead.....make my day" Clint.

[drdon326]

13. Then get a new syringe.....

the article is a vile crummy pos.

[bemildred]

8. Don't bother me with facts, my mind's made up.

:thumbsup:

[drdon326]

9. Good !! Then you wont mind this...

"PA Schools Teach Children That Israel Should Be Destroyed: In a
statement issued on December 8, 2004, the leftwing Israel-Palestine Center
for Research and Information, headed by Dr. Gershon Baskin, said: "Text
books issued by governments are an authoritative source to determine the
values that any society lives by. Until now, the Palestinian Authority text
books have not provided evidence that the Palestinian Authority has been
implementing a policy of peace making ... he main political theme
imparted to the students is that Israel should not exist and that is
essentially the Palestinian goal. Assuming that this is not the political
message that the Palestinian Authority adheres to, there is a need to make
real revisions and amendments in Palestinian textbooks."

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=23262

------------------------------------------------------------------

d'oh.....yeah....its all imagined.:crazy:

[drdon326]

10. Notice how this VILE P.O.S. article at the top of this thread.....

misrepresents the 2004 report. The author , i believe , deliberately misrepresented it because it didnt fit his hate-filled not to thinly veiled agenda.

The European Union has issued a statement that the new textbooks are free of inciting content and the allegations were unfounded. The IPCRI 2003 ((Israel-Palestinian Center for Research and Information}}report states that the overall orientation of the curriculum is peaceful and does not incite to hatred or violence against Israel and the Jews, and the 2004 report states that there are no signs of promoting hatred toward Israel, Judaism or Zionism, nor toward the Western Judeo-Christian tradition or values.

Notice he does not quote any of the 2004 report.


Gee, probably wants a job at EI.

[drdon326]

11. OMT, bemildred.....since your minds made up...

How come the author of this viscous crummy article failed to mention what Dr. Gershon Baskin ,the HEAD of Israel-Palestine Center
for Research and Information , said.....


"Text books issued by governments are an authoritative source to determine the values that any society lives by. Until now, the Palestinian Authority text books have not provided evidence that the Palestinian Authority has been implementing a policy of peace making ... the main political theme imparted to the students is that Israel should not exist and that is essentially the Palestinian goal. Assuming that this is not the political message that the Palestinian Authority adheres to, there is a need to make real revisions and amendments in Palestinian textbooks."

Do you think Roger Avenstrup has an agenda?

Why didnt he include this from the head of the IPCRI ??

Why in his so-called "article" did he deliberately FAIL to include any quotes from the actual report?

wHY is it IHT seems to have a rather colorful past of posting one sided articles that magically are anti-israel ...if not downright anti-semitic ??

I'm going to hold my breath waiting for a response.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tinoire]

27. An agenda?

I don't know Don, as far as the actual report goes, maybe you should google the internet, or even the site itself, for the actual report :shrug: I had no trouble finding it last night.

Roger Avenstrup certainly does have an agenda and it's been the same agenda regardless of region. In this particular instance it's eliminating the culture of hate in children's text books so that other little children won't get blown up-the exact same agenda many intelligent Israelis and Palestinians have. It's unfortunate more people don’t have the same agenda J

Rogr Avenstrup (for those who don't have the time to research):

A Norwegian academician said the liberation struggle made it possible for all future generations of Namibia to receive education. Dr Roger Avenstrup, who is in the country to help strengthen learner centered education with the National Institute for Educational Development (NIED) presented President Sam Nujoma with his thesis entitled “No change without Pain: Transforming Education in Namibia after Independence” on Wednesday. He said the thesis would hopefully contribute to research and understanding to improve education in Namibia. Avenstrup said his thesis looks at education after independence, adding that if the President had not led the
liberation struggle, Namibian children would not have received an education. “I also looked at reconciliation, as a part of educational reform,” he said, adding that although the policy of reconciliation was introduced, it is not practised vigorously and more efforts should be made otherwise the process would take longer to implement.

http://www.grnnet.gov.na/News/Archive/2001/October/Week1/education.htm

Roger Avenstrup, Ph.D.Independent Education Consultant with long and short-term experience mostly in Africa. Professional background in curriculumdevelopment, materials production, teacher education, and policy and strategies for education reform. Long-term adviser in Namibiaon the restructuring of education and institutional capacity building after Independence, and managed technical assistance to the Education Sector Development programme in Tanzania. Currently working with transitions to sector wide approaches,community-based approaches to primary education (including marginalised groups), and curriculum and teacher education reform, inChad, Tanzania, Mozambique and Namibia. Other country experience includes Eritrea, Ethiopia, Zambia, South Africa andPalestine. Major professional concerns are the need to make the form and content of education relevant to African contexts; theimpact of HIV/AIDS on education; networking African expertise.Patti Swarts, Ph.D.Director of the National Institute for Educational Development in Namibia. Background in teacher education and professionaldevelopment. Research and development work in i.a. the development of reflective practice, intercultural education, and education of marginalised groups. International consultancy work on capacity building and institutional development.

www.adeanet.org/wgnfe/publications/avenstrop_swarts.pdf

[drdon326]

29. Juuuuuust lovely.

"Roger Avenstrup, Ph.D.Independent Education Consultant with long and short-term experience mostly in Africa."


And now he's a self professed expert on palestinian anti-israel textbooks???


Are you SURE you have the right "ROGER AVENSTRUP"??

[Tinoire]

32. Yes I'm sure

You'd see it too if you did a little research on him.

He's an expert on hate in text books. Surely everyone would agree that there's a market for such well-intentioned experts in the Middle East :shrug:

Or do you think the love there is as deep as the love between you and me ;)

[bemildred]

15. You seem upset Don. nt

[drdon326]

17. ME ???.....NAH.....

I know your minds made up......i just wanted to bring up some other facts.

[bemildred]

25. Yep. The more "facts" the better. nt

[drdon326]

19. What a pathetic vile crummy ARTICLE.

You're return is a happy event....sad you posted such a lousy article.

Its a one sided hack job with no quotes,no proof,no citations.


How come the author of this viscous crummy article failed to mention what Dr. Gershon Baskin ,the HEAD of Israel-Palestine Center
for Research and Information , said.....


"Text books issued by governments are an authoritative source to determine the values that any society lives by. Until now, the Palestinian Authority text books have not provided evidence that the Palestinian Authority has been implementing a policy of peace making ... the main political theme imparted to the students is that Israel should not exist and that is essentially the Palestinian goal. Assuming that this is not the political message that the Palestinian Authority adheres to, there is a need to make real revisions and amendments in Palestinian textbooks."


Welcome home , Tinoire.....a rather auspicious beginning.


{mods....this post conforms to ALL rules}...sheesh.

[Forkboy]

21. viscous?

Looks her return touched a nerve.

Eggggcellent.

[drdon326]

22. For the record....

I attacked the post AND THE ARTICLE !!

(not the poster.)

And no one loves Tinoire more than me.:9

[Forkboy]

26. Never said you did attack her

:shrug:

[Tinoire]

28. Jeez DrDon!

You owe me a new keyboard! I spit my mango juice out, all over it and the monitor, when I read that comment ;)

I am certain that in real life you can be most charming but I would love you even more and so eternally in return if we could bring a little more depth to the relationship by going into a little more depth when we converse. Yes I know this is instransigeant on my part but believe me, it's the same in my personal/social relationships.

Here's to more depth :toast: because this relationship, just like the IP situation, can be saved ;)

[drdon326]

30. Hey...

I saw your posted picture somewhere.

You are some piece of ....i mean..... nothing wrong with you.

lol








mods....posted for humor purposes only.....lest there be any misunderstanding.

[Tinoire]

33. Lol

I think I know (hope I know at least!) what picture you're talking about but I've gained a few pounds since then. Thank you though for the compliment (?). I've never been ashamed of my body (and besides you can't see anything). Strangely enough, that photo was taken by my then boy-friend who was Leon Uris' nephew. What small funny coincidences when you look back.

[bemildred]

24. Very thick, as they say. nt

[Igel]

36. This is how the organization producing the paper put it:

"Palestinian text books have confused messages and it is not difficult to come to the understanding that the main political theme imparted to the students is that Israel should not exist and that is essentially the Palestinian goal. Assuming that this is not the political message that the Palestinian Authority adheres to, there is a need to make real revisions and amendments in the Palestinian text books. If this assumption is correct, then the recommendations in this paper provide some solid suggestions of what could be done immediately by the Palestinian Ministry of Education to rectify the confusion and to strengthen the position of the Ministry and of the entire Palestinian Authority in the eyes of the international community."

Pollyanna, anyone?

[drdon326]

37. Notice how the author of the lead post. ,Mr Avenstrup.......

overlooked the ACTUAL REPORT AND "injected" his own pathetic bias.

Avenstrups own words....

"the 2004 report states that there are no signs of promoting hatred toward Israel"

Now the truth about the actual report...


Palestinian text books have confused messages and it is not difficult to come to the understanding that the main political theme imparted to the students is that Israel should not exist and that is essentially the Palestinian goal.

(NO Dr.Baskin.... THAT IS THE MESSAGE )





Assuming that this is not the political message that the Palestinian Authority adheres to, there is a need to make real revisions and amendments in the Palestinian text books.

(Dr. Baskin ??..psssst....it IS the political message....wake up.)

[drdon326]

38. Roger Avenstrup.....WINNER of the 2004

"Yassir Arafat Truth-Telling Award"


Lying weasel.

[pelsar]

39. Tinoire......comment?

"Palestinian text books have confused messages and it is not difficult to come to the understanding that the main political theme imparted to the students is that Israel should not exist and that is essentially the Palestinian goal. Assuming that this is not the political message that the Palestinian Authority adheres to, there is a need to make real revisions and amendments in the Palestinian text books. If this assumption is correct, then the recommendations in this paper provide some solid suggestions of what could be done immediately by the Palestinian Ministry of Education to rectify the confusion and to strengthen the position of the Ministry and of the entire Palestinian Authority in the eyes of the international com

do you agree that this is from the same report?...if so I would be interested to know why you left it out?

as its seems to contradict your above posts (if its from the same report, then it would seem to me the minimum to mention this as well, as explain why you feel its not relevant)

[drdon326]

40. Thats easy......

because often, any pathetic , vile ARTICLE that unjustly demonizes israel and/or sanctifies/legitimizes the PA and their terrorists is praised here as truth.

No truth-detector
No facts
No checking of sources
No questioning of an author who spent most of his life in Africa.


And sadly there exists some ( I said , SOME ) people in the world who chime into these lying hate-filled ARTICLES because of their own not-too-thinly veiled feelings towards israel and jews.

sad.




BTW...I contacted www.honestreporting.com regarding this article.

[Forkboy]

42. Kind of like some

who buy into any right wing article because of their not-too-thinly veiled feelings towards Palestinians and Muslims.

sad.

[QueerJustice]

43. any article supporting Israel...

...is viewed as being ``rightwing`` even if it is leftwing...

Unfortunatly the ``leftwing`` has been Hijacked by the palestinian ``cause`` including terrorism,barbarism and general uncivilized behavior that should never be condoned or tolerated...

[Forkboy]

46. Uh huh

whatever you say :eyes:

[QueerJustice]

48. Thats the best reply you could muster?

:boring:

[Forkboy]

50. The only one that drivel deserved

:boring: is right :hi:

[QueerJustice]

44. Honest reporting.com ....does a great job...

but will be dismissed by some people as being rightwing... LOL

[newyorican]

45. Actually...

It's dismissed for being crap. I don't know about the rightwing angle.

[QueerJustice]

49. Dismissed?

By you? LOL well they would take that as an endorsement :)

[Englander]

51. In a way,this site is useful.....

It helps to identify the viewpoint of the poster,of anyone who thinks there's nothing askew in relying on wingnuts for sources. "Honest.." say the usual, UN ambulance/rockets,Palestinian=terrorist,
IDF-never-kill-innocent-children, Violinist-was-a-busker,style propaganda,but have found a new way of saying it.

Comment
Media manipulators
How a north London web-designer began a campaign that deluged the Guardian with emails

David Leigh
Guardian

Thursday February 22, 2001

Why would the Guardian provide moral and medical justification for the multiple murder of innocent Israeli civilians?

It's a pretty bizarre question, but we found ourselves being asked it over and over again this week. Emails clicked in to the letters page by the hundred, all making the same weirdly alliterative points. This followed publication of a Guardian article trying to understand the motivations of the Palestinian bus driver who ploughed into a queue this month, killing eight Israelis.

The mysteriously similar emails - from all over the world - started coming in, too, to our foreign editor; to our website; and to the personal email address of our Middle East correspondent, Suzanne Goldenberg.

They were inconvenient, and also sometimes a bit scary in their violent tone - "The bloody Guardian... Have you killed a Jew today?... Are you anti-Jewish?... Unrelenting Guardian anti-Israel bias... Why would the Guardian provide moral and medical justification etc...?'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4140042,00.html

[Malikshah]

47. Thanks-- nice to see additions to the Fulbright study of years ago

on this...the prof is still being lambasted...

Oh well..guess if the research doesn't fit for some, they attack the messenger...a tried and true tactic. Yup. Attack the old messenger.
Yup. works every time.

Remember that tactic, now, y'hear.

:)

[Violet_Crumble]

52. Adding another link...

Welcome back, Tinoire! And thanks for posting a veritable treasure-trove of information on what I believe is an important issue. Just in case this one hasn't been covered, I thought I'd include it....

ALLEGATION: "UNRWA schools and textbooks teach hatred of Israel."

FACT: The curriculum in the Agency’s schools is determined by the education authorities in the locations where it operates. For historical reasons UNRWA schools followed the Jordanian curriculum in the West Bank and the Egyptian curriculum in the Gaza Strip and this practice continued under the Israeli control of those areas between 1967 and 1994. Since 1994 the Palestinian Authority has progressively been replacing the old Jordanian and Egyptian textbooks as new PA-produced textbooks become available.

The United States Congress requested the US Department of State to commission a reputable NGO to conduct a review of the Palestinian curriculum. The Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information (IPCRI) was thereby commissioned by the US Embassy in Tel Aviv and the US Consul General in Jerusalem to review the PA’s textbooks. Its report was completed in March 2003 and delivered to the State Department for submission to Congress. Its Executive Summary states: “The overall orientation of the curriculum is peaceful despite the harsh and violent realities on the ground. It does not openly incite against Israel and the Jews. It does not openly incite hatred and violence. Religious and political tolerance is emphasized in a good number of textbooks and in multiple contexts.”

Nathan Brown, Professor of Political Science at George Washington University, has also published studies on this subject. Regarding the Palestinian authority’s new textbooks, he states:

• "The new books have removed the anti-Semitism present in the older books
  
  
• while they tell history from a Palestinian point of view, they do not seek to erase Israel, delegitimize it or replace it with the "State of Palestine"
  
  
• each book contains a foreword describing the West Bank and Gaza as "the two parts of the homeland."
  
  
• the maps show some awkwardness but do sometimes indicate the 1967 line and take some other measures to avoid indicating borders; in this respect they are actually more forthcoming than Israeli maps
  
  
• the books avoid treating Israel at length but do indeed mention it by name
  
  
• the new books must be seen as a tremendous improvement from a Jewish, Israeli, and humanitarian view
  
  
• they do not compare unfavorably to the material my son was given as a fourth grade student in a school in Tel Aviv".
  Ruth Firer of Hebrew University reached similar conclusions in her study of the new books.

Much of the criticism of Palestinian textbooks has been based on research published by an organisation entitled the "Centre for Monitoring the Impact of Peace" CMIP. The organisation’s work has been criticised as "tendentious and highly misleading" by Professor Brown.

UNRWA:Setting The Record Straight

Violet...