Gazan launches ArabsforIsrael.com Web site

[QueerJustice]

As a child growing up in Egyptian-controlled Gaza in the 1950s, Nonie Darwish remembers how she was taught to hate Jews from a very young age.

"I was told not to take any candy from strangers since it could be a Jew trying to poison me," she recalls. "We were told Jews were devils and evil and the enemies of God."

Now, nearly five decades later, Darwish has discarded the views with which she was raised, and become a vocal activist on Israel's behalf. She recently launched a Web site, ArabsforIsrael.com, and has begun lecturing across the US about the need to stand behind Israel and support its existence.

"It took me many years to realize that Israel is not a threat to the Arab world and is actually an asset in the area," Darwish told The Jerusalem Post. "When I moved to America in 1978 my first job was given to me by a Jewish man. Both he and his parents were very kind to me."


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1104122542292

.............

Hopefully this takes off.........

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Maybe there is some hope for the survival of the human race on the planet

Thanks for posting this.

[King Mongo]

2. Others seeking peace

There are wonderful people on both sides who are working for peace. Here are some others:

Jews against Zionism
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

International Jews united against Zionism
http://www.nkusa.org/

Jews not Zionsts
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

Foundation for Middle East Peace
http://www.fmep.org/directory/organizations.html

The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
http://www.btselem.org/English/About_BTselem/Human_Rights_Sites.asp

Gush Shalom
http://www.gush-shalom.org/links.html

Jewish Friends of Palestine
http://www.jewishfriendspalestine.org/

Jewish Opposition to Zionism
http://www.iahushua.com/Zion/opp.html

American Council for Judaism
http://www.acjna.org/articles.asp

Tikkun Magazine
http://www.tikkun.org

[pelsar]

3. king...

you have got to be kidding?.....some of those links go to the absurd religious groups (neutra katri . You might as well list the KKK.

hint: listen up, any group that is interested in peace will not denounce zionism, as that is defined by the mainstream jewish and israeli people as their cultural/nationalistic identity.

to help you along, it would be like telling the palestenians that those keys they've been holding dont really go their grand dads house in jaffa, but are really keys to their bicycle.

i see you use the "z" word alot to somehow discredit the jews in israel as well as those outside. As we see it?...its just one more attempt to demonize us, its our self identity, we chose it, cheap attempts to make it into an evil word, is pretty much the same as attempting to make us evil. you might as well as join the Egyptians with their elders of zion TV program, or Irans latest, or Saudis with the jews drink arab blood for passover.

Get over it, demonization of us, is not someone who is actually interested in a peaceful just settlement in the middle east.

[King Mongo]

4. Jews who are against Zionism

I do not find that Jews who discuss the problems related to Zionism are demonizing Jews. Rather, I find that Zionists need to recognize and accept the problems related to Zionism. There is nothing wrong with discussing the wrong things that people do or did. Discussing such helps people to become better people and to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

Please recognize that the fact that I posted links about Jews who are against Zionism does not mean that I want to discredit Jews. The fact that some Jews are against Zionism does not mean that I want to discredit Jews. It's not my fault that some Jews are against Zionism. It's really their choice. They chose such for one reason or another. Please do not blame me for the opinions of some Jews. I am not responsible for their opinions.

As for the keys issue, Israel should examine every key. If it can be proven that the key does not belong to a bicycle, then the Palestinian should be given a very nice house with lots of money. Otherwise, the Palestinian should be given a new bicycle and lots of money.

As for the kkk, you are correct that some Jews are members of terrorist organizations like the Kach, Jewish Defense League and others. Yet, those folks are usually Zionists and not those who are against Zionism.

[King Mongo]

5. NETURE KARTA

By the way, why do you have so little respect for other religious groups? Do you have respect for other religious, cultures and races?

I understand and respect the Zionist desire to create a Jewish state for the purpose of protecting Jews from being persecuted. Yet, I also sympathize with Palestinians who are suffering because of this desire. Why must one suffer so that another will not suffer? Granted, Jesus did volunteer to suffer for human beings. Must Palestinians suffer for Jews without volunteering to do such?

[pelsar]

7. relgious groups

i have no problems with religious groups....except those of the extreme....which takes and distorts the good parts of religion and uses it as a wedge to cause distances between people.

The Neture Karta are an example of that.

The "anti zionist groups for the most part use the word zionist as a "evil word" a code word if you will for the dismantling of israel, hence it has little place in a serious discussion about bringing peace to the middle east. That is to differentiate between the problems that the zionist movement/establishment of israel has caused-a reasonable topic)

a parrallel in the palestenian world would be to claim that there is no such thing as palesteniains.

would you then agree to a discussion on that (with links)?

As an intellectual exercise, i have no problem discussing the pros and cons of the zionistic movement, what it is, why etc. And at the sametime we can discuss the evolution of the palestenian identity, was is just a PR stunt or is there a real history behind them?

In terms of bringing about peace in the middle east, the "anti zionism" is similar to claiming that there is no such thing as palesteniains: both points are destructive.

[King Mongo]

8. Valid point

Agreed. You have a valid point. Zionists call themselves Zionists because they think that some peoiple have some right to live in some location for some reason. Palestinians call themselves Palestinians because that's the name of the place where their ancestors lived. People have the right to call themselves anything that they want to.

[King Mongo]

9. However...

However, most Palestinians are Palestinians because they are from the area known as Palestine.

Zionism, however, is a concept, like communism. Not all Jews are Zionists for the same reason that not all Jews are communists. Thus, I see nothing wrong with being anti-Zionism for the same reason that one may be anti-Communism. Of course, being against Zionist or Communist theories dose not mean that one is against the people who believe in these theories. Certainly, one cannot be anti-Palestinian or anti-Israeli because that means being against people regardless if they are communists or Zionists.

Of course, the problem with being anti-Zionism is that there are good Zionists and bad Zionists. Some Zionists want to share Israel with the native Palestinians under conditions of citizenship and equality for everyone while other Zionists want to racially cleanse the native Palestinians from the so-called holy land. So, it is probably the most correct to be against some forms of Zionism while supporting other forms of it.

This means, I guess, that you are right and Jews who are against all forms of Zionism, including the good forms of it, could be considered to be radicals, like radical Zionists. Yet, one must ask, are these Jews against all forms of Zionism or only the aspect of it which harms Palestinians? The idea of waiting for the Messiah to return to Israel could be considered as being Zionism without harming the native people of the land.

[pelsar]

10. king..

i believe you got the "jist" of it.....at least as i see it. Zionism is not an inclusive single definitive property. It incompasess a wide range of definitions and people in all walks of life. Hence to be "anti zionist" is using a very broad brush that includes both extremists and as well as the moderate-hence its use as to define a group is not really good.

it does define a mass movement that brought the jews to israel...beyond that its definition is now murkey as is exploited for its symbolic use by various groups.

[King Mongo]

27. The "jist" of the term anti

Yes, I got the "jist" of things. Anti is a very strong and dangerous word. It's generally not good to be anti-Zionism, anti-communism, anti-capitalism, anti-democracy, anti-nazi, anti-el kaida, etc. given that there are good and bad people in every groops. It's always best to be anti-individual meaning that one is against the bad things done by each individual.

[catbert836]

22. Oh, I get it

So Jews for Palestine are just like the KKK, but when it comes to Arabs supporting Israel, that's just fine and dandy.

[jellybelly]

6. Arab support

for the state of Israel is a blessing but it should be worded differently. 'Arabs supporting Israel' means those arabs have picked sides, and/or agree with Israeli government policies.

[Englander]

11. Behind the wise words of peace & love.....

stands a proud supporter of * & "The War On Terror".

DU,May this year;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=70372

And this,where her speech was delivered,incredibly,with a straight face.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41844

Approaching horsemen
Posted: December 9, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
I was privileged to attend portions of the second annual "Jerusalem Summit" held last week at the elegant King David Hotel, which sits regally perched above the biblical Hinnon Valley across from the walled Old City. The setting was appropriate since the international gathering of prominent conservative shakers and movers was designed to generate "New Ideas from the Old City," as a banner hanging above the summit podium proclaimed.

....Darwish also lashed out at the Islamic world's general refusal to examine its own sins before throwing stones (or worse) at others, especially at her "beloved adopted homeland," the USA. She bluntly added that "terrorism is never honorable, and should be abandoned as a so-called political tool" in the bitter Arab-Israeli conflict.

[Forkboy]

12. more shocking I/P developments!

or not.

[pelsar]

13. OMG....is this a trend?

not only Darwish, but the Egyptian Daily Al-Ahram with a major editorial says its time to start recognizing israel and enough with the games.....(Hazem Abd Al-Rahman Dec 8, 2004)

gosh and to think these are people who are actually involved in the conflict...who actually understand the real definition of terrorism and what it has done to their own societies....

probably, and Im just guessing now, they have a better understanding of the dynamics than those that sit in countries 1,000 of kilometers away and preach using limited knowledged they have manged to read from journalists who reporting is limited due to certain environmental factors and pressures.

i would say, its a wise person with an open mind that would start wondering why the change in the official egyptian attitude?

[Forkboy]

14. I can only hope it is a trend

The average people of both sides (read non-extremists) in the conflict deserve some peace.

[drdon326]

15. .

:hurts:

[Forkboy]

16. Yes?

Did you have something to add?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QueerJustice]

18. Like a...

self hating type of thing?

[QueerJustice]

19. So whats wrong with...

````....Darwish also lashed out at the Islamic world's general refusal to examine its own sins before throwing stones (or worse) at others, especially at her "beloved adopted homeland," the USA. She bluntly added that "terrorism is never honorable, and should be abandoned as a so-called political tool" in the bitter Arab-Israeli conflict.````


IS terrorism honorable....

we should be saying... BRAVO.......
and KOL HAKAVOD........

[Englander]

25. I'd imagine that "terrorism" only applies to Palestinian political..

violence,never to Israeli violence.I would imagine that Ms. Darwish is mute on the subject of Israeli illegality.

On the subject & location of the speech;
She probably had to shout to compete with the sound of ghosts wailing from the basement..
Similar scenarios- Irish republicans/loyalists at a conference at the Europa Hotel,Belfast,or a republican at the Grand Hotel,Brighton.

This woman is not progressive or liberal.This is a PR hoax,a neo-con style front,to confuse the gullible.

[QueerJustice]

45. ...in your opinion...

```This woman is not progressive or liberal.This is a PR hoax,a neo-con style front,to confuse the gullible.``

Your like the supreme court of prgressivism and Liberalism?
YOU have decreed it so it MUST be so?


I guees no Arab who actually wants peace with Israel/Jews can ever be considered as being sincere?

[Englander]

46. "Comedy should be left to the professionals"....

Although,for an amateur,you're very successful at providing laughs.

What the hell's "prgressivism"?!?
:crazy:

[QueerJustice]

47. was not tryin to be funny....

....was not even a good weasling way out of the argument.....

....you get all YOUR good lines from ``The magistrate``,,,,It was a good line when he posted it......

[Englander]

48. "Who's on first?"....

Then,you have an innate gift of comedy.You are a natural.

Er,dude, fwiw,the ""Comedy should be left to the professionals" line was not the joke. Though I guess,as a comedian,you already knew that a joke becomes unfunny when you have to explain it...

And I still have no idea what "prgressivism" means...:silly:

[Darranar]

39. Imagine a pro-Palestinian Jew...

saying, "from a former Jew, these people are in the US to Judaize America and have a scary agenda."

Or, "after all, terrorists are doing their deeds in the name of Hashem and please don't tell me they're just a bunch of lunatics that have nothing to do with Judaism."

Would anyone dare call that person "progressive" after he or she said these blatantly anti-semitic things?

Yet when Nonie Darwish says the same things, except about Muslims and Islam, she is a "progressive"?

[newyorican]

20. This is rather dated...

Let's call it a regurgitation. Must be a slow news cycle.

Arabs for Israel launch website Posted Tue May-25-04 07:19 PM

[drdon326]

21. I'm glad you liked it.....

its a pleasure to see progressives who condemn violence.

From the article...
------------------------------------------------------------------
We are Arabs who believe…

*We can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture.

*There are many Jews and Israelis who freely express compassion and support for the Palestinians. It is time that we Arabs express reciprocal compassion and support.

*The existence of the State of Israel is a fact that should be accepted by the Arab world.

*Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.

*Every major World religion has a center of gravity. Islam has Mecca, and Judaism certainly deserves its presence in Israel.

*Diversity should not be a virtue only in the USA, but should be encouraged around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities including Jews and Christians.

*Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who do not want to see Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.

*If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.

*We stand firmly against suicide/homicide terrorism as a form of Jihad.

*We are appalled by the horrific act of terror against the USA on 9/11/2001.

*Arab media should end the incitement and misinformation that result in Arab street rage and violence.

*We are eager to see major reformation in how Islam is taught and channeled to bring out the best in Moslems and contribute to the uplifting of the human spirit and advancement of civilization.

*We believe in freedom to choose or change one’s Religion.

*We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Moslem world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform.

[pelsar]

24. drdon326- i dont know.....

that website sounds like what is classicly referred to as "progressive thought"....something to the effect of accepting different cultures, living in peace etc.

it would really disrupt world order if that was to catch on, without israel as the epicenter for illogical hate what would so many people do?...what would they get excited over?

who would have the "kooties"

[Englander]

26. Ms. Darwiish is "progessive" in the same way that..

the Fascist Chimp is progressive..ie not at all.

A islamophobic,conservative B*sh loving wingnut who hates liberals,lefties & democrats is "progressive"!!
:crazy:

[drdon326]

28. OK...Lets test your theory.....

Englander....what S P E C I F I C part in her befief statement do you disagree with ??

Please be as specific as possible if you can.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

We are Arabs who believe…

*We can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture.

*There are many Jews and Israelis who freely express compassion and support for the Palestinians. It is time that we Arabs express reciprocal compassion and support.

*The existence of the State of Israel is a fact that should be accepted by the Arab world.

*Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.

*Every major World religion has a center of gravity. Islam has Mecca, and Judaism certainly deserves its presence in Israel.

*Diversity should not be a virtue only in the USA, but should be encouraged around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities including Jews and Christians.

*Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who do not want to see Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.

*If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.

*We stand firmly against suicide/homicide terrorism as a form of Jihad.

*We are appalled by the horrific act of terror against the USA on 9/11/2001.

*Arab media should end the incitement and misinformation that result in Arab street rage and violence.

*We are eager to see major reformation in how Islam is taught and channeled to bring out the best in Moslems and contribute to the uplifting of the human spirit and advancement of civilization.

*We believe in freedom to choose or change one’s Religion.

*We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Moslem world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

await your response

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdon326]

32. Gee.....

rufuses to answer a simple question....I take it you agree with all her belief statements. Thanks.

[Englander]

35. "And I shall,in turn,assume that you agree with...

Ms. Darwishs' comments on Iraq.<<sarcasm>>

I shall also assume that you believe everything this wingnutty bigot says concerning liberals,(evil) & B*sh (god's own warrior).<<sarcasm>>

[Violet_Crumble]

36. Have you read the old thread yet, Englander?

Y'know, the one where I pointed out to donny one of the statements I had problems with, and asked him a question about it, which he refused to answer not once, but several times. Just thought what was happening in this thread was a bit of a Pot Kettle Black moment ;)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x70372#70387

Violet...

[Englander]

37. Yes,there's a link to the old thread in No. 11...

That would be the thread where yourself,& Tinoire & others pointed out the bigotry of Ms. Darwish.
I'd have thought that Dr D. would have an answer after six months...

:-)

[Englander]

40. I'll try again..........

Do you also believe Ms. Darwish when she says this?

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6337

"As an American of Arab origin, I laugh every time I hear someone in the media asking “How can you prove that Saddam and al-Qaeda are cooperating?" How can anyone imagine that two outlaw organizations with a common enemy would not cooperate? They are both Moslem, Arab and live in the same neighborhood. Do these same people doubt that a fire can ignite when matches are struck near gasoline?

"....The danger from Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction is real.

"....It is sad to see the antiwar activists undermining President Bush and wishing him to fail when that can only mean harming the U.S. as a whole. They think the Democrats will come along and save the day afterwards, but a Bush failure will only compound the trouble inflicted by 9/11.

"....President Clinton closed his eyes to the terrorist attacks."

[Forkboy]

41. Sounds right up his alley

[pelsar]

29. and this egyptian.....

"Egyptian playwright, satirist and political columnist Ali Salem checks out the passersby and seeks to learn from them about Israel."

The people who were against him and were against normalization now belong to a generation on its way out, part of what Salem calls the culture of clever words and slogans. Now it is the time of the workers, of those who want to live their lives, he says.


oh oh...another one of those Egyptians who are now rethinking the "arab attitude" toward israel and have found it to be self defeating, suicidal and just plane stuiped.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/520432.html

[drdon326]

30. It always amazes me.......

when some people love to slur progressive arabs as "self-hating"

because these progressives dont support murder and genocide.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. I think she may be nearly as progressive as you are, donny...

Some ever so progressive 'thought' from an article at her website:

'The misguided ‘peace-loving’ Americans portray Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi people as our victims! With all the history of Saddam, his obvious mental illness, and the many testimonies of Iraqi defectors, we are still debating the legitimacy of war and needing proof that he is dangerous!

Since President Bush was elected, the world has seen a U.S. media that disrespects its president and his legitimacy. I was in Paris before 9/11 and saw CNN belittle President Bush at every opportunity. I was told by a French woman that Bush is an idiot and a cowboy. When I asked her why she thought so, she answered “Don’t you listen to the news? That is what your American Media says!” And we wonder why some European countries hate us.

The Left in America uses international opinion to influence our government, and many foreign countries enjoy the power this gives them over the U.S. I heard the same U.S. media’s constant criticism of Bush when I visited my Middle East homeland for the first time in 20 years. My visit was an eye-opener to the rapidly accelerating anti-American propaganda and lies in the various Middle East newspapers. Unfortunately, CNN was not helping much to counter the Arab media’s misinformation and lies. Many Arab homes watch CNN, but what I saw and heard nightly was simply outrageous. CNN seems to think that journalistic objectivity means taking an anti-U.S. position at every turn. The propaganda against Bush works in the Middle East; I have read many Arabic articles confirming this. Some Western media are emboldening the enemy and orchestrating an international campaign against Bush.'

http://www.noniedarwish.com/pages/745445/nav.htm

*snort*

Violet...

[Lithos]

38. Pelsar

The issue of Arabs supporting or at least wanting friendlier relations with Israel is not at question. What is at question is that some do so not necessarily for the right reasons - they have an agenda for which this support is subservient which in turn makes this support a liability.

That said, I am thinking of Ms. Darwish and not Mr. Salem.

[pelsar]

42. i just know of Mr. Salem....

so I will have to read up on Ms Darwish a bit. I do get a bit excited when I read about the "arab intellectuals" breaking with the crowd though. There was a interesting program on TV overhear. Basically it said the the "arab in the street" of Egypt etc doesnt really care about the palestenian/israeli conflict....its the "intellectuals" that keep on the news papers.

at any rate if Mr. Salem has his way and if what he says is true, then a real change will happen since Egypt plays a pivitol role here.

[Violet_Crumble]

33. Noni Darwesh is no progressive...

My thanks to Newyorican for posting the link to the old thread on exactly the same thing posted over six months ago. That saved me the trouble of finding it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x70372

If you read this thread, you'll find that Noni Darwesh definately doesn't accept different cultures, and is a remarkably bigoted woman. Any group, Arab or otherwise, that believes all the responsibility for peace lies at the door of only one party in this conflict is not exactly residing in the world of reality, nor are they exerting anything in the way of empathy or compassion towards the group of people they place responsibility on...

Violet...

[QueerJustice]

23. mmm thats strange...

wonder why the jpost published this story 6 months later?

[Tuco Ramirez]

43. She lives in the US

She can afford to be liberal; she doesn't sit in the sweltering sun at roadblocks.

This is only a news item because it is so bizarre. Thankfully for the Palestinians, she is probably the only Palestinian that feels this way, and will not sway a single Palestinian patriot.

[pelsar]

44. that sun.....

sure is hot at those roadblocks....

of course since she isnt the "only palestenian" who feels that way at least in terms of accepting israel as its neighbor, we have something to be thankful about.....