Israeli hospitals used old and mentally infirm as human guinea pigs

[lindsayg]

Patients in Israeli hospitals, among them the elderly, children and the mentally infirm, have been used as guinea pigs in medical experiments without permission from their legal guardians, according to the country's main government watchdog.

Geriatric patients had their fingers inked to give fingerprints authorising the tests even though they suffered from senile dementia and would not have known what they were doing.

Some children had their eardrums deliberately pierced so that a drug, not approved for medical use anywhere else in the world, could be applied. Such tests needed approval but the hospital did not apply to the ministry.

In another case, a painful procedure using a needle to draw urine from the bladder for testing was performed without the necessary ministry approval.

Unlicensed drugs and invasive procedures were also used on patients, sometimes by researchers who were not even doctors. In one clear conflict of interest the researcher was employed by the commercial company selling the procedure.

And even though any fatality during such clinical tests should be reported to the ministry within 48 hours, it took researchers more than a week to pass on the information in 21 out of 37 deaths. Some took more than a month.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/10/wguin10.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/05/10/ixportal.html

[Fenris]

1. Nothing terribly ironic about that.

:sarcasm:

[NuttyFluffers]

9. exactly, nothing to see here.

besides, *it's the only democracy in the middle east!* /high pitched whine

i agree completely with this statement (forget who said it at the moment): you judge a society by how it treats the weakest among them.

had no interest in visiting israel before, now, for fear of my life of ever being sick there, i'll never visit. the irony is too thick to be bearable...

[Coastie for Truth]

44. GOOD IDEA

AVOID NEW YORK, BOSTON, BALTIMORE (JOHNS HOPKINS), WASHINGTON, NASHVILLE (FOR PROFIT FRIST-HCA), DALLAS, HOUSTON, PITTSBURGH, CHICAGO, PALO ALTO -- HECK DON'T GO ANYPLACE WHERE THEY HAVE MEDICAL SCHOOLS AND INTERNS, AND RESIDENTS AND PERFESSERS-- STAY IN EAST PODUNK.

[lovuian]

2. Its Corporations going amok!!!

Its almost like they target the weak!!!

[newyorican]

3. Who were the patients?

:shrug:

[Swede]

10. Sounds like society's vulnerable.

The old,the young and the mentally incompetent.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/573805.html

[Coastie for Truth]

45. SEE APPEND 43 - AVOID TEACHING HOSPITALS - NT

[jrthin]

4. This story makes me

so unimaginable sad.

[pie]

6. I hope to god this is not true

If this is true it is beyond my comprehension.

[Benhurst]

5. Josef Mengele would be proud. NT

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. You privy to info not in the article?

n/t

[movonne]

7. Next here...if not already.

[Jacobin]

8. Oh, we've been doing it for years

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. Remember eugenics and forced sterilizations?....

...the Nazis borrowed that "science" from us and then jacked it up to create their Final Solution in 1942-1943.

Early proponents of eugenics were people like Prescott Bush, Averill Harriman, and Ford.

[Coastie for Truth]

46. REMEMBER

ALL THOSE LITTLE KIDS WHO HAD EXPERIMENTAL TYMPANIC MEMBRANE TUBES (LIKE MY KID) AT PITTSBURGH'S CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL?

REMEMBER ALL THOSE POST-MENOPAUSAL WOMEN WHO WERE SUBJECTS FOR THE CLINICAL TRIALS OF FOSAMAX (MY WIFE)?

REMEMBER ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE CLINICAL TEST SUBJECTS FOR APLASTIC ANEMIA/LEUKEMIA CHEMOTHERAPY AGENTS (MY MOTHER, MY SISTER-IN-LAW)?

REMEMBER ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE CLINICAL SUBJECTS FOR STATINS AND FOR GLUCOPHAGE TYPE DRUGS (ME)?

REMEMBER ALL OF THOSE LITTLE KIDS IN PITTSBURGH WHO CLINICAL SUBJECTS FOR SALK'S POLIO VACCINE (ME)?

YOU HAVE A CHOICE - YOU CAN GO TO AN ACADEMIC MEDICAL CENTER -- OR TO EAST PODUNK FALLS COMMUNITY MEMORIAL GENERAL HOSPITAL.

[Journeyman]

11. Too many sick jokes, too sad to voice . . .

I wonder if the hospital staff will promise "never again" and make it all okay. . .

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. You read correctly.

So did/does China, Japan, the US, the Soviet Union, and a few others. It is never right, no matter who is doing it.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dutchdoctor]

19. I find the references to Hitler and Mengele in this thread very disturbing

I am not trying to justify the crimes that have apparently been committed in those Israeli hospitals, but anyone who believes that the use of unlicensed drugs or reporting a fatality several weeks late is on the same moral level as the things Mengele did should really pick up a history book.
My problem with these comparisons is that they seem to say: "See? The Jews are no better than the Nazis". Such remarks could be interpreted as trying to make Jews indirectly responsible for the holocaust.

The constant comparison of the Israeli government to Nazi Germany also makes it very easy for the Israeli government to yell "antisemitism!" whenever someone tries to raise a valid point over their policies such as the occupation of Palestine, without having to respond to the point made.

[ET Awful]

22. We aren't just talking about using unlicensed drugs . . .

they pierced peoples eardrums, etc. Mengele was known to perform similar procedures.

[AlienGirl]

39. Mengele also had the backing of the state and openly killed his "subjects"

Mengele operated on children without anesthesia, then killed them with phenol injections to the heart. (Imagine, for a moment, the size of the needle used to reach the heart from the outside.) He did this with the approval of universities and of his country's government.

By contrast, these researchers will likely be prosecuted (one hopes) and almost certainly sued. They do not stand accused of killing anyone outright for dissection; rather, they are accused of not reporting deaths on time. The Israeli researchers are guilty of a grave violation of ethics, no doubt about it, but in scale it resembles more what has happened in the US in the 50's than it does Mengele's atrocities.

Tucker

[Coastie for Truth]

47. SAME THING THAT THEY DID TO MY KID

AT UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH-CHILDRENS HOSPITAL OF PITTSBURGH--
- LOOK FOR CHARLES S. BLUESTONE, MD

YOU WANT ACADEMIC MEDICINE - OR EAST PODUNK FALLS GENERAL COMMUNITY MEMORIAL HOSPITAL?

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Very good points.

Just like you, I am not trying to defend what has happened. It is disgusting and everyone who is responsible should be brought up on charges and all the victims (or their families) should be compensated. But, this event no way is at the same or even close to the level of Mengele or other Nazis. The comparison diminishes the victims of the Holocaust and is falsely analogous.

It is interesting that so many people complain that they can not legitimately criticize the Israeli government without being called an anti-Semite. Well, perhaps if people legitimately criticized events in Israel without making all of Israel or Israeli people as Nazis, then critics might not be called anti-Semites.

What happened in these hospitals is beyond pale. But, because it happened in Israel should not excuse the Hitler/Nazi comparisons. And comments about the "victims learning" from the "masters" is not a comment on Israelis, but on Jews. So, see how easy it is to cross from criticizing Israel into the realm of anti-Semitism? People wonder why Jews are so sensitive to any criticism of Israel; well, we have to discern if it is really criticism of the country or a veiled slam of the people or Jews.

[Colorado Blue]

31. Thank you. I think people LOVE stories like this, it's like,

oh, see? "They" really ARE bad.

This incident does suck, I hope people receive the proper punishment. But comparing it to Mengele, so forth, is totally OTT and just dead wrong. So is "forgetting" how common similar things are worldwide, even in the lily white and perfect USA.

[emad]

20. Israeli hospitals used old and mentally infirm as human guinea pigs

By Tim Butcher in Jerusalem
(Filed: 10/05/2005)

Patients in Israeli hospitals, among them the elderly, children and the mentally infirm, have been used as guinea pigs in medical experiments without permission from their legal guardians, according to the country's main government watchdog.

Geriatric patients had their fingers inked to give fingerprints authorising the tests even though they suffered from senile dementia and would not have known what they were doing.

Some children had their eardrums deliberately pierced so that a drug, not approved for medical use anywhere else in the world, could be applied. Such tests needed approval but the hospital did not apply to the ministry.

In another case, a painful procedure using a needle to draw urine from the bladder for testing was performed without the necessary ministry approval.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/10/wguin10.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/05/10/ixportal.html

[Solly Mack]

21. speechless

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Israel also used X-rays on the heads of thousands of Ethiopian kids

back in the Fifties, only about ten years after the Holocaust. LINK TV had a special on it a few weeks back and I'm sure it will be shown again. It was awful. Kids' families were told they were being taken to a summer camp but once they were there, their heads were shaved and then tweezed to make them completely bald before the high dosage X-ray treatments. These were all Jewish children, BTW, but they were Ethiopian Jews, i.e., a minority. The "treatment" was allegedly to "cure ringworm" but it was questionable whether most of them ever had ringworm to start with.

The documentary showed many old photos of kids having their heads plucked, etc. Elderly people who had been subjected to this talked about the pain of the treatments and all the problems they've had since; headaches, cancers, more. Quite a number of children died in the "summer camps" and were buried by the government.

When the surviving children returned home, their parents wouldn't believe their stories so they shut up about it for years.

Human beings are capable of great evil, and that capacity for evil exists in every race, religions, nationality, etc.

[entanglement]

26. Israel has underlying racial tensions

Most of the power is in the hands of the Ashkenazi (European Jews) Sephardic and Ethiopian Jews aren't as empowered; intermarriage between the different groups is quite rare.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. Film

THE RINGWORM CHILDREN
TITLE: THE RINGWORM CHILDREN
YEAR: 2003
DIR/PROD: David Belhassen & Asher Hemias
COUNTRY: Israel
LANGUAGE: Hebrew w/ English ST
TIME: 46 minute
SOURCE: IsraelFilmFestival.com
TEXT: Documentary. In the early years following Independence, approximately 100,000 immigrant children, primarily from North Africa, received X-ray radiation treatment for ringworm. At that time, the medical world perceived ringworm as a degenerative illness and a danger to humanity. It was discovered that these treatments caused high rates of infertility, cancer and mortality. This tragic affair was hidden from the public eye for decades... until now. Through exhaustive research and testimonies of survivors, this emotional documentary unearths a possible conspiracy between American and Israeli health officials. Best Documentary Haifa International Film Festival from link

On edit: "Embryos received x-ray doses already in the womb during abdominal exams. Newborns were routinely treated by x-rays to prevent diseases. Pediatricians used to fluoroscope babies and young children every month and during annual checkups. Many children were given massive radiation treatment for an invented disorder - enlargement of the thymus gland in the upper chest. The scalps of 10,000 New York children were irradiated to make their hair fall out as a treatment for ringworm. Depression in women was cured by irradiating the ovaries and excessive bleeding of girls during menstruation by x-rays to the uterus. Primitive mammography caused the breast cancer epidemic decades later. NYC ringworm treatment in the 1950's

On second edit: First, this was a prescribed treatment for ringworm of the head. It was just in the stages that it was thought it was a useless treatment, therein lies the conspiracy. Second, it wasn't Ethiopian children, but mainly Moroccan and some Yemeni (although the only places I found this reference were right-wing hate sites). Third, this was happening WORLDWIDE. Could there be more to this story? I am sure there is, but much of it may be obscured by anti-Semitic rhetoric.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Is it anti-Semitic rhetoric to report the truth about Israel irradiating

the heads of 100, 000 North African Jewish children in the 1950s? It certainly has racial overtones but the racism is in the Israeli government at that time, not in those who are finally reporting what the children experienced. It shows that evil is found in every race, religion, nation, tribe, etc.

I was a kid in the 1950s, living in five states and overseas, and never knew but one child who had ringworm of the scalp. His name was Stevie and they shaved his head and treated it with ointment; he wore a cap that covered his head all the time. I remember it because it was unusual in my experience.

In my experience with Navy doctors, X-rays and fluroscopes weren't used excessively, though they certainly had the necessary equipment for all of that and more. Shoe stores, however, had X-ray machines you could stick your feet into to see how close your toe bones came to the toe of the shoes! I've always wondered what THAT did to all of us.

Lots of useless treatments have been used in the US and elsewhere; in the US, DES was prescribed for pregnant women from 1946 until the 1970's though it was known for many years that it did not prevent miscarriage. (It does cause cancer and abnormalities in the offspring exposed in utero.) Very often, too much trust has been placed in modern medicine. But that doesn't let Israel's government off the hook for what they did to those children who came from North Africa (and I believe they said in the film that they were Ethiopian.)

It is quite possible that neither of us has the entire picture here, but I can assure you that my info came from LINK TV, a leftist network, and that I have never visited any right wing hate sites even for research purposes, and don't appreciate what seems to be an accusatory tone to your post.

[Andromeda]

34. No, you don't have the whole picture.

"It is quite possible that neither of us has the entire picture here, but I can assure you that my info came from LINK TV, a leftist network, and that I have never visited any right wing hate sites even for research purposes, and don't appreciate what seems to be an accusatory tone to your post."

Left-wing websites, and I mean FAR left-wing websites, tend to be very anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian. That said, I don't think you're going to find as much anti-semitic rhetoric on a right-wing website than you will find from a socialist, far-left and Communist leaning website.

Too many people are quick to condemn Israel for things done all over the world, and I'm surprised at you since you know how liberally x-rays were used for treatment of many different kinds of conditions. At that time, I believe Israel thought that was the right treatment, however misguided, and I hardly think it was done maliciously, at least not any more so than the U.S. when it used x-rays to treat planter's warts.

Israel is not perfect, but neither is anybody else and I think more care should be exercised before accusing Israel of committing acts similar to the attrocities in WWII.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. Thank you!

You brought up a great point about left-wing sites. There are quite a few that are anti-Semitic but it is obscured by anti-Israeli sentiment. As you say, Israel is not above reproach, no country is. Israel can and should be criticized when they are wrong, or believed to be wrong. But, when the word "Israel" and "mistreatment" are in one sentence, the Holocaust comparisons start...that can be anti-Semitism.

I also agree that people are quick to condemn Israel. It is as if they salivate at the thought Israel has done something wrong. Like Israel should be "untouchable" and when they fall short, people jump like rabid dogs. It doesn't excuse the actions that took place in this article in the least. I have NO issue with people attacking the hospitals or the people responsible.

Also, the constant use of the Holocaust as a comparison with Israel and Israeli issues diminishes the horrors of the Holocaust.

[Englander]

61. Which ones?

--"You brought up a great point about left-wing sites.There are quite a few that are anti-Semitic but it is obscured by anti-Israeli sentiment."

Which "left-wing" sites do you consider to be "anti-Semitic"?

How many is "quite a few"?

I'd like to know which sites you mean,so I can see for myself,
and decide if I agree with you. Or not,as the case may be.

[Mairead]

62. "I think more care should be exercised before accusing Israel"

Between Roentgen's 1895 discovery of the rays and 1904 when Edison's assistant was killed by them, awakening the scientific world to their dangers, xrays were used in cases of ringworm to get the person's hair to fall out so as to improve ease of treatment. But the bad, often fatal, side-effects were increasingly documented and by 1920 scalps were being shaved instead.

The idea is preposterous that 25-35 years later anyone could still not know that xrays were never to be used in the treatment of ringworm.

I think more care should be exercised before defending Israel.

[pelsar]

69. yes the did it on purpose....

I just talked to a doctor next door to me....the whole idea was to sterilze all those jews from N. Africa under the guise of "health". It was felt that not only were they genetically inferior to the eurpean ashkinazi jew but they also had more kids, consequently if something wasnt done, they would soon find themselves in the upper ranks within the political and military world.

Oh gosh, it seems thats what happened, of course perhaps those x-rays made those kids really really evil..maybe that was the real plan....or maybe not, perhaps there really werent xrays at all but a special ray to produce genetically enhanced israelis....or remove their genetic history to produce "pure jews"....gosh this is all so confusing. but what is sure is that:

The idea is preposterous that 25-35 years later anyone could still not know that xrays were never to be used in the treatment of ringworm.....therefore it was on purpose with a very different plan, as outlined above

[eyl]

71. Almost right

Someone in the Ministry of Security read too many comic books - they were trying to generate Israeli superheroes.

[Behind the Aegis]

36. Reread what I wrote.

I didn't say, or even imply, that reporting about what happened in the 50's was anti-Semitic. I don't think all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic. Israel should never get a "free pass" from criticism when wrongs have been committed. As a matter of fact, I was giving you a back-up to the info you had provided. I found that film and thought it would be good information (although, I think we are talking about two different films on the same subject). My remark about the "right-wing hate sites" was to indicate that the story had other dimensions. As another poster has already pointed out, some left sites can be woefully anti-Israeli, and some are downright anti-Semitic, but hide it much better than the right. Furthermore, I also pointed out that the US was also involved and that a conspiracy could be a very real thing, or it could be nothing more than the understanding at the time.

So, there was no accusatory tone; I was simply providing more information and comments.

[Mairead]

58. "a degenerative illness and a danger to humanity"

"At that time, the medical world perceived ringworm as a degenerative illness and a danger to humanity."

That is a goddamned lie.

I know, because there were plenty kids with ringworm at the school I attended then (the late '40s). Even more than lice, it's a condition associated with poverty and the lack of means for keeping clean.

The public health authorities --the 'medical world'-- treated it as what it was: a parasitical infection that was fully curable. Kids who got it were medicated and wore a cap to prevent passing it around. The drugs to treat it were completely effective and it would clear up in a matter of a few weeks. Meanwhile, the kids had a certain peer-group cachet because it was so interesting to see the spiral track of the worms on their shaved scalps.

[Behind the Aegis]

59. I didn't make the move, just found the reference to another poster. n/t

[Mairead]

60. Yes, I know. Sorry if it seemed as though I was blaming you.

Whoever wrote that up was either willfully ignorant or a frightful liar. Since we're talking about a vicious crime, I have a strong suspicion that the description is an attempt at göbbelist exculpation.

(edit: I just looked at the description: israelfilmfestival.com. I think that's Thoreau's trout flashing its fin again, telling us what we need to know.)

[Mairead]

63. My mistake--you did help perpetrate the 'goddamned lie'

You added to your find:

On edit: "Embryos received x-ray doses already in the womb during abdominal exams. Newborns were routinely treated by x-rays to prevent diseases. Pediatricians used to fluoroscope babies and young children every month and during annual checkups. Many children were given massive radiation treatment for an invented disorder - enlargement of the thymus gland in the upper chest. The scalps of 10,000 New York children were irradiated to make their hair fall out as a treatment for ringworm. Depression in women was cured by irradiating the ovaries and excessive bleeding of girls during menstruation by x-rays to the uterus. Primitive mammography caused the breast cancer epidemic decades later. NYC ringworm treatment in the 1950's

On second edit: First, this was a prescribed treatment for ringworm of the head. It was just in the stages that it was thought it was a useless treatment, therein lies the conspiracy. Second, it wasn't Ethiopian children, but mainly Moroccan and some Yemeni (although the only places I found this reference were right-wing hate sites). Third, this was happening WORLDWIDE.

Your first paragraph quotes unsourced crap that you label, falsely, as "NYC ringworm treatment in the 1950s". Your second paragraph claims, falsely, that this was 'prescribed treatment for ringworm'. That's a crock. Xrays were never 'treatment', they were used around 1900--before their dangers were understood--to get the ringworm victim's hair to fall out. By 1920 shaving the head had become the only acceptable method, because the mortal dangers of xrays had become known.

They continued to use fluoroscopy for a time for fitting shoes and similar because fluroscopes were low-power devices, and thought to be harmless, but they knew very well that high-power medical xray machines were not. My dad contracted TB in the mid-'40s, and for a year or two the Public Health demanded that our mum bring us kids and herself in every 6 months for a chest xray to make sure we hadn't got it too. I can clearly remember all the precautions--lead aprons and a lead blanket over the face--that were taken to prevent overexposure. By the mid-1940s, nobody was buggering around with medical xray devices anymore.

[Behind the Aegis]

64. Actually, you are wrong.

Your first paragraph quotes unsourced crap that you label, falsely, as "NYC ringworm treatment in the 1950s". Your second paragraph claims, falsely, that this was 'prescribed treatment for ringworm'. That's a crock. Xrays were never 'treatment', they were used around 1900--before their dangers were understood--to get the ringworm victim's hair to fall out. By 1920 shaving the head had become the only acceptable method, because the mortal dangers of xrays had become known.

You can call it "unsourced crap;" however, it is from a Radon site on the history of Radon. So, I don't know what you need for proof. Also, it was not "falsely labeled" because as you can clearly see, it says: "The scalps of 10,000 New York children were irradiated to make their hair fall out as a treatment for ringworm." Although it doesn't say what year, according to that article. So, I can't be absolutely certain that this occurred in the 1950's. However, what I was showing by my research was that Israelis were NOT the ONLY ones who were doing these treatments.

Don't believe me, do your own search on "ringworm treatment 1950's" and see what YOU find! I didn't see any particular 'agenda' with the site, other than an anti-nuclear slant, so I don't know why its information is not good enough for you. However, feel free to see what others have said about this type of treatment and why quite a few people (and their relatives) received compensation for these "treatments."

[Englander]

65. It's unsourced crap,if ever I saw it.

The site,RadonSeal,has this on the front page;

_________________

"RadonSeal
penetrating concrete sealers!

Basement Waterproofing and Radon Mitigation
Made Easy!

Wet Basement, Radon, Mold and Mildew?

You are not alone! Basements are the No. 1 complaint of homeowners:

* over 60% of homes have a wet basement
* 1 in 3 homes have some molds and mildew, while over 2% have the toxic "black mold"
* 1 out of 6 homes have an elevated level of the cancer-causing radon gas.

Most basements start leaking water within 10 to 15 years. Efflorescence ("white powder") or a musty odor is the first sign of moisture problems. Finishing the basement traps water vapor seeping through the concrete, causing molds and musty odors. Damp basement air spreads molds and radon through the house.

RadonSeal can save you thousands of dollars on home repairs - basement waterproofing, concrete crack repair, mold remediation, and radon mitigation. But prevention is always best! Seal your concrete and repair concrete cracks before problems develop and definitely, before covering or painting the concrete.

Preserve the concrete, seal it against water and vapor, protect your basement remodeling investment, prevent the growth of molds, and reduce radon to a minimum – all in one step with RadonSeal. "
_______________________

So.."it is from a Radon site on the history of Radon.":eyes:

Here's an actual history of radiology,
why not explore this site & see what you can find?

" A CENTURY OF RADIOLOGY

A Project Of Radiology Centennial, Inc.
A consortium honoring a century of discovery and achievement"

http://www.xray.hmc.psu.edu/rci/centennial.html

[Mairead]

67. No, I'm not wrong.

You intentionally mislabelled what you found.

[Behind the Aegis]

68. No, I didn't.

I may have mistakenly mislabeled by adding the date, because that is the google search title I used, but it was not intentionally mislabeled!

[Englander]

70. Your source was shite,but the info was correct....

Incredibly, x-rays were used as medical treatments
for various ailments in the post-WWII era.

Not surprisingly,there were excessive incidents of cancers
in those treated patients.
__________________________

"#200 - Sacrificing Citizens, September 26, 1990

A most remarkable book has been published, entitled MULTIPLE EXPOSURES, and subtitled, CHRONICLES OF THE RADIATION AGE, by Catherine Caufield. As the subtitle implies, it is a history of the development of ionizing radiation since the discovery of X-rays by Wilhelm Roentgen in 1895 and of natural radioactivity by Henri Becquerel in 1896. The tone of the book is even-handed, factual and understated. Much of the book is based on interviews with important U.S. scientists and government officials, and on official government records. The book does not draw many conclusions; it tells what happened and what people said. Events are narrated in a dry, passionless voice, leaving the reader to draw his or her own conclusions.

>snip

X-ray Therapy

From the 1920s to the present, medical doctors have treated more than 100 ailments with X-ray therapy. Large numbers of people with relatively minor problems such as ringworm and acne have been subjected to high doses of powerful X-rays. Birthmarks, bursitis, and sinusitis have been treated by X-rays. Many women have had their ovaries irradiated as a treatment for depression. Excessive bleeding during menstruation has sometimes been treated by irradiating the uterus.

>snip

Between 1947 and 1960, doctors irradiated the scalps of 10,000 children in Israel, and an equal number in New York City, who were infected with ringworm. The idea was to irradiate the children until their hair fell out, so the ringworm could be treated more efficiently. (pg. 141)

Studies published in 1974 and 1977 showed that these children had six times as much thyroid cancer as a control group, as well as an excessive number of brain cancers and leukemias.

Throughout the '70s, other studies showed that people exposed to X-rays for back ailments had a leukemia death rate 10 times higher than normal and a lung cancer rate twice normal. Women sterilized by radiation to curb menstrual bleeding were the subject of five separate studies; all five found excessive leukemias, as well as an unusually high incidence of cancer of the intestines and other organs that had been inadvertently irradiated during treatment."

http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/bulletin.cfm?Issue_ID=934


A Brief Chronology of Radiation and Protection;
http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/chrono.htm#top

Pre-1960 and Post-1960 Uses of Medical Radiation, and Its Carcinogenic Action;
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/chp2F.html

[Colorado Blue]

73. I'm adding a couple of links about radiation treatment in

general, which was common for benign diseases up until about the 1970's, all around the world.

The implication that this is an ISRAELI phenomenon is both misleading and disgusting.

I myself, an American, received many high-dosage dental xrays, since I was born in 1950, and also thyroid treatment. This may or may not kill me down the line.

NO HARM WAS INTENDED.

It should also be noted that Israel has arranged for compensation to victims who WERE injured by the ringworm treatment.

I don't see what difference it makes whether people were treated for ringworm, subjected to hi-dosage x-rays of their teeth, thyroid treatment, or whatever: x-rays were all the rage back then and it has taken awhile for people to truly understand the long-term implications of exposure to radiation.

At the time it was seen as a miracle cure.

http://www.allthyroid.org/disorders/radiation/childhood_neck_irradiation.html

http://www.health-physics.com/pt/re/healthphys/abstract.00004032-200307000-00011.htm;jsessionid=CNDTv1u8T5od1aoiFb1Rt0S5Roiy3TNhlZkRUBOuEpREeDXvX241!-1679577767!-949856032!9001!-1

There is a LOT of information about the use of radiation for treatment of benign illnesses, available on the 'net, if anybody is really interested.

Also, radiation treatment was given to pets for ringworm. It wasn't just humans who were involved. This was VERY COMMON.

[Englander]

66. "Spotlight: The Ringworm Children"

"In the early 1950's, approximately 100,000 immigrant children, primarily from North Africa, received X-ray radiation treatment for ringworm upon their arrival in Israel. At the time, the medical establishment thought ringworm a grave danger to public health. It was later discovered that these treatments caused high rates of infertility, cancer and death. This tragic affair was hidden from the public eye for decades… until now. Through exhaustive research and testimonies of survivors, this emotional documentary illustrates how stereotyping immigrants can have horrific consequences.


Spotlight is a weekly series of investigative reports from around the world, introduced by author and Journalist Mark Hertsgaard. Mr. Hertsgaard’s latest book is “The Eagle's Shadow: Why America Fascinates and Infuriates the World."

http://www.linktv.org/programming/programDescription.php4?code=ringworm

[KitSileya]

28. This sounds familiar.....

Who was it that experimented on people without their permission again... injected alcohol into their joints etc... what was his name again... Dr. Men...something or other....

:sarcasm:

[DearAbby]

29. Someone say Josef Mengle? I knew that you could

Ironic?.... to say the least.

[Behind the Aegis]

30. How is this ironic?

Seriously, how is this story ironic?

[DulceDecorum]

37. The image of helpless victims being experimented on

is especially sensitive in Israel because of the horrors inflicted on Jewish prisoners of Auschwitz by its Nazi camp doctor, Josef Mengele.

The tests carried out in Israeli hospitals, however, bear no comparison with the sadism of the man known as "the Angel of Death".

The disturbing revelations shocked Dan Naveh, the country's health minister, although he has been criticised for a lack of urgency on the issue of medical testing. After eight years' work, a bill to control experimentation is still not finished.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/10/wguin10.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/05/10/ixportal.html

And the beat goes on.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Thanks for the response.

I still don't really see this story as 'ironic,' disturtbing...yes! The victims here were not informed of what was happening, so they were helpless in the sense they did not know. This is very different than the victims of Mengele. However, is it really realistic to expect that Israel, as a nation, be any more "moral" than another nation? How do we know that the people doing these experiments are Jewish? What if they are foreigners or non-Jews? Would that change some of the rhetoric thrown around about this incident?

The fact is what happened happens all over the world. It is no more or less disgusting just because of where it happens. If this article said Ireland instead of Israel, I would be just as outraged. I would still be calling for the people responsible to be brought to justice and the victims and/or their families to be compensated. The only thing that would have been comparable is if a specific group was targeted, imprisoned, and then used. It is just as bad as that some, the mentally disabled and children, were targets, but it is just not the same. However, the outrage over this event should be loud and not diluted with charges of "Nazism."

[tobeornottobe]

53. yeah someone did say Josef Mengele (sic)

I believe it was you

the question is why?

[billyoc]

33. How can I put this without sounding anti-semitic...

How about,

"You are a sociopathic, inhuman abomination if you puncture childrens' eardrums on purpose to use them for medical experimentation, no matter what the fuck flag you're flyin'."

howzzat?

[pelsar]

42. billyoc

i'll go along with that.....

[tobeornottobe]

72. You did it ! You managed to put that without sounding antisemitic!

Must be an acquired skill.

[dArKeR]

40. Israeli physician blows whistle on illegal experiments - TT

A leading Israeli doctor and medical ethicist has called for the prosecution of doctors responsible for thousands of unauthorized and often illegal experiments on small children and geriatric and psychiatric patients in Israeli hospitals.

An investigation by the government watchdog, the state comptroller, has revealed that researchers in 10 public hospitals administered drugs, carried out unauthorized genetic testing or undertook painful surgery on patients who were unable to give informed consent or without first obtaining health ministry approval.

At one hospital, staff pierced children's eardrums to apply an experimental medication that was yet to be approved in any other country.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/05/13/2003254483

[pelsar]

41. let me understand this.

israeli doctors are doing illegal experiemnts and testing and an israeli doctor brings it to the public knowledge, its is written about in the press...and PRESTO!

israeli society is condemmed to be "nazi like"

can I continue the thought process to say that amercian abortions are akin to gas chambers? i. e. american society is nazi like?

i always enjoy the jump from an open society balancing itself with an open press to being "nazi like"....but then that jump goes both ways doesnt it.....for those who are accusing us of being "nazi like".....its may be out of ignorence, but its usually one of those "other things- there are so many)

[centristo]

50. EXACTLY

Well put pelsar.

"Israel's government ombudsman found routine abuses of the Helsinki Declaration's principles at a number of hospitals across the country."

Although the article is somewhat ambiguous, these were not government sanctioned expirements and it makes no sense to blame the Israeli government, Israelis, or Israel for these disturbing expirements.

If you feel comfortable blaming Israel for this, then I guess you can say that America (and therefore all Americans) is a barbaric nation too. Remember when the Bush administration tried to do that CHEERS study?

http://www.epa.gov/cheers/

And finally, yeah Israel does have a free press. If the same stunt or worse got pulled in Saudi Arabia you would NEVER even hear about it. Shoot, we had to invade Germany in order to find out about the horrific things they were doing to other human beings.

[Coastie for Truth]

43. I participated in Medical Experiments

1) I participated in medical experiments - as a subject - carried out by Gerald Reaven, MD, at Leland Stanford University College of Medicine, Pasteur Drive, Palo Alto, CA.

2) My son participated in medical experiments - as a subject - carried out by Charles Bluestone, MD, at University of Pittsburgh - Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh.

3) My sister-in-law participated (and is still participating) in experiments at the University of Pennsylvania on aplastic anemia/leukemia chemotherapy treatments. Keeps her alive.

4) My wife participated in the clinical trials of Fosamax.

5) I participated in the clinical trials of Jonas Salk's polio vaccine.

WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL -- YOU WANT ACADEMIC MEDICINE AT A MAJOR TEACHING CENTER - YOU WILL BE EXPERIMENTED ON -- YOU WILL BE POKED AND PRODDED BY STUDENTS AND RESIDENTS AND GRADUATE FELLOWS. -- OR YOU CAN GO TO EAST PODUNK COMMUNITY HOSPITAL. THAT'S ACADEMIC MEDICINE.

[centristo]

48. polio?

Damn Coastie, how old are you? lol...;)

[not systems]

49. Have you or your's been experimented on without informed consent?

If not then you misunderstanding the difference between ethical
and unethical human research by comparing your experiences to
what this article is talk about.

Being "poked and prodded by students" and being give untested
and possible dangerous drugs WITHOUT informed consent are not
comparable.

[Coastie for Truth]

51. I was given a form (several pages)

that would have required a lawyer (make it 2 - medical malpractice and medical/pharmaceutical patents), an academic MD in that specialty, and a high grade PhD in biochemistry in that field - to even understand the words.

I am a PhD chemical engineer (not biochemist), and I work with lots of lawyers - and it was pretty incomprehensible to me.

BTW - did you know that when you start with a new dentist or have root canal work or an extraction - your consent forms even includes Belle's Palsy?

Those forms are written by lawyers and biochem PhDs for lawyers and biochem PhDs.

[not systems]

52. Do you think the "1964 Helsinki Declaration on biomedical experimentation"

was violated in any of the experiment you participated in?

Because this article say:

Israel is committed to following the 1964 Helsinki Declaration on biomedical experimentation, a code of practice drawn up by the World Health Organization.

Israel's government ombudsman found routine abuses of the Helsinki Declaration's principles at a number of hospitals across the country.


Perhaps you should not agree to experimentation that you don't understand?

I think that what you did differs greatly from experimenting on
children and people with degenerative brain conditions with a
"thumb print" for the consent signature.

So are you defending this type of experimentation with people
who are unable to provide informed consent?

[Coastie for Truth]

54. That;s why you go an academic center

where the "name" is your doctor.

I lived in a red county in a red state with an East Podunk General Hospital -- and they missed a pre-cancer - same cancer that killed my dad. It was right there on x-rays..........

The Doctors at Leland Stanford Medical School and Hospital, Pasteur Drive, Palo Alto, CA and at the affiliated Palo Alto Medical Foundation, El Camino Real, Palo Alto, CA found it early enough, operated, and saved my life.

I trust them - and if a doctor I trust has a clinical trial in a field where she is an expert (per the ), and I meet the criteria and it might provide therapeutic to me (or my descendants) I will probably participate.

As to your question counsellor - I am not learned in the law of the Helsinki Declaration.

[not systems]

55. Fair enough...

so do think that experimenting on people without informed
consent is wrong?

I get the impression from you posts that you believe all
medical experimentation is to some extent uninformed if
one is not a expert in the area. I agree.

I do think there is a huge difference between using the
helpless for experimentation and using people who understand
to the best of their education what they are doing.

Why use your informed participation to obscure that the people
in this article did not enjoy the human dignity that you did?

[Coastie for Truth]

56. So, are you saying that pre-approval thrombolytic drugs for stroke

like t-PA should not have been tried on unconscious patients who presented with classic ischemic stroke symptoms -- who probably would have face brain death or persistent vegetative state.

There was an alternative treatment - they could go a Frist-HCA Hospital, and Bill Frist could diagnose and treat them long distance with a web cam - like he did for Terri Schiavo.

By the way - my advanced medical directive provides informed consent for experimental therapies (once my advanced directive kicks in). Not interested in prolonging life at the "end of life" -- just data.

[not systems]

57. So you are saying that experimenting a kids is...

without consent is fine with you?

If a person is in a "persistent vegetative state" their
guardian is the one to give the informed consent.

If they don't give consent then the doctors can't go ahead
and do whatever they want.

If you have an advanced medical directive then your guardian
will hopefully take your wishes into account.

FYI: Your PM messages were unappreciated and somewhat odd
and maybe a little psycho please refrain from sending side
rants and attacks to me via PM. If you can't post it in
the public forum then don't send it to me PM.

[undergroundrailroad]

74. Locking/Archiving.

This article can be accessed in DU's archives.


Undergoundrailroad
DU Moderator, I/P Affairs Forum