CNN Breaking News: Jewish settler opens fire on Palestinians

[brooklynite]

Three reported dead, two wounded after Jewish settler opens fire on Palestinians in West Bank, Israeli police say. Details soon.

http://www.cnn.com/

[papau]

1. The crazy settler was arrested

On the West Bank on Wednesday, a Jewish settler grabbed a gun from an Israeli guard and opened fire on Palestinian workers in an industrial area of the Shilo settlement, killing three Palestinians, Israeli police said. Two Palestinians were wounded.

The settler, from the nearby Shvut Rahel settlement, was arrested.

[I concur]

2. I concur...

I concur

[Larkspur]

14. Ok, where are those IDF missles and gunships that should be attacking

Jewish terrorisrs? Take out whole neighborhoods even if those Jewish settlers are innocent. It works against Palestinian terrorists, so it should work against Jewish terrorists. </sarcasm>

[Copperred]

18. Exactly..

Exactly....

[Coastie for Truth]

19. Yah dis is der Festschrift

[papau]

22. I get your point - but the reality is that the recent PA killing Settlers

did not have an IDF missles and gunships response.

Besides this is West Bank - not Gaza.

Maybe things are changing for the better - even in the extent of the murdering that is going on.

[newyorican]

38. Must be a language thing...

But...

1) When did the Palestine Authority kill "settlers"?

2) To an OP titled: Jewish settler opens fire on Palestinians, the response is: "Maybe things are changing for the better - even in the extent of the murdering that is going on. "

I can only say I missed that story on number 1, and *wow* on number 2.

[caitlyn]

30. Jewish terrorists...

...are isolated extremists, not large organized militias with missiles, mortars, rockets, etc... placed in population centers. Surely you can see the difference?

No Palestinian terrorism would mean no IDF action like you describe.

[On the Road]

3. Will This Terrorist Attack on Innocent Civilians Threaten

the peace process? Just curious.

[Texasgal]

5. I am sure it will

It's taken this long just to get where they are now.

This process is extremely vulnerable.

[caitlyn]

29. It can't threaten the peace process...

...because there IS NO peace process. The Palestinians currently only have a war process.

[anotherdrew]

4. so an army sniper took out the gunner right?

[caitlyn]

31. Israel prefers to arrest Palestinian terrorists, not shoot them.

Sometimes, sadly, there is no alternative. If you know someone is planning an attack that will kill many people you have to stop them.

I am getting really tired of the moral equivocation going on here. You have one side (the Palestinians) choosing to start a terror war rather than complete the Oslo process and the other side (Israel) trying to protect it's population and defend itself. There is a difference. Again, if the Palestinians stop terrorism, the very first step of the RoadMap, Israel WILL reciprocate. The violence will end. The Palestinian leadership shows neither desire nor willingness to end the violence.

Of course, for some here Israel is always evil and the Palestinians are always justified.

[Scurrilous]

45. "Israel prefers to arrest Palestinian terrorists, not shoot them."

I guess you missed this:


25 May 2005: New B’Tselem Report: Take No Prisoners - Grave Suspicion of Assassinations under the Guise of Arrests

http://www.btselem.org/english/press_releases/20050525.asp

[eyl]

46. Btselem.org

also lists a large number of prisoners. What, the IDF was short of ammunition those days?

[Poll_Blind]

6. Not terribly suprising... Baruch Goldstien ring a bell?

Many Jewish settlers believe the best way to deal with the Palestinian issue is just to exterminate them. Baruch Goldstien, who killed something like 29 arab worshippers (bravely waiting till they had all bowed in prayer to open fire) is buried in a settlement in Hebron and his grave is venerated as a martyr. Sick, sick, sick, nomatter which side venerates massacres.

PB

[caitlyn]

32. What you do NOT seem to get...

Is that since that day when Baruch Goldstien opened fire on Muslim worshipers there have been exactly two more Jewish terrorist attacks in 10 years. There are more Palestinian terror attacks every single day.

Baruch Goldstien is buried in Kiryat Arba, which is NOT in Hebron. The Kahanists who venerate him number in the hundreds, total, in Israel. Most settlers are not extremists and are in the territories for economic reasons. Most settlers condemn this sort of violence.

Finally, most settlers live in towns which are really suburbs of Jerusalem or on high ground along the Green Line. The numbers in isolated, ideological settlements in or near Palestinian population centers are relatively few. Such settlements are already being removed in northern Samaria, and as the process of disengagement moves forward in the future, or, better yet, if there ever truly is a peace process that works, all such settlements will go.

Jews, at least 99.9% of them, do not venerate martyrs. What is the percentage among the Palestinians? In the greater Arab and Muslin world?

[Scurrilous]

44. "there have been exactly two more Jewish terrorist attacks in 10 years..".

There have been two Jewish terrorist attcks in the last 2 weeks.

Today:

Jewish settler guns down three Palestinians near Shilo

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=98730


Aug. 4:

Israeli Soldier kills four civilians on Gaza bus

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=97787


There are more examples in the DU archives (and they only go back to 2001).

[Violet_Crumble]

47. Yeah, but...

They're the other two Jewish terrorist attacks that she claims has happened over the past ten years. I'm wondering why the murder of Palestinian civilians by settlers that have been documented by human rights groups don't qualify as terrorism or have been totally ignored...


Violet...

[caitlyn]

51. Documented by whom?

Facts please? Which human rights groups? I am aware of no such incidents other than the three I've already mentioned.

Do you really believe the is organized Jewish terrorism on the scale to which there is organized Palestinian terrorism? 1/10th of the scale? 1/100th? 1/1000th?

[Violet_Crumble]

53. Geek Tragedy has already posted links in this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x98734#98862

Now yr aware of quite a few more...

You claimed that there were only three terrorist attacks against Palestinian civilians in the past ten years. It matters not one iota which group of sickos is more organised as it doesn't negate the fact that both have committed terrorist attacks against civilians. ..

Violet...

[jim3775]

7. This was predicted in an editorial I read in Haaretz

The strategy is to provoke the Palestinians into an armed response to distract the police.

[Ian David]

8. This Man-Bites-Dog story belongs in the Israel-PLO forum. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

9. You describe Jew murdering Arab as "Man-Bites-Dog"?!

Hrm....

PB

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Notice that the Palestinians get to be the "Dogs" here

Paging Dr. Freud. I'll have "dehumanization" with a side of stupidity, please.

[Ian David]

17. Oh, puh-leaze. Man Bites Dog is an old cliche/metaphor

Next you'll accuse people of being anti-Chinese when they say that Bush has a "chink in his armor."

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Oh, I'm aware that it's an old metaphor

I just find your application of it to this situation curious, and telling.

[Coastie for Truth]

20. Festschrift

[newyorican]

42. Foshizzle...

In honor of whom?

[Jim Sagle]

15. That's EXACTLY what it is, and everybody damn well knows it.

[newyorican]

39. Well...

That clears that up...

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. Hardly a "Man-Bites-Dog" story

Puh-leeez.

It does belong in I/P, though.

[Coastie for Truth]

21. Festschrift

[TomClash]

40. Do you know the meaning of this word? nt

[Coastie for Truth]

41. Yes.

[bribri16]

16. Where it will be permantly removed as not following the I/P rules.

I just don't understand DU when it comes the Israeli situation.

[geek tragedy]

23. Settler violence is NOT an unusual story.

This isn't the Ingalls family we're talking about here--these folks are loony tunes nutjobs most equivalent to Randy Weaver and David Koresh.

[caitlyn]

33. Pardon me? Please list all these examples of terrorist violence...

...in the last 10 years with at least one Arab death. There were three incidents. Now list all the Palestinian terrorist incidents with at least one Israeli death...

Most terrorists are not extremists. The extremists/Kahanists number, by most estimates, in the hundreds. Most settlers are as quick to condemn and be outraged by this violence as you are.

I realize these facts don't fit your agenda.

[geek tragedy]

35. How many settlers are there as opposed to Palestinians? eom

[caitlyn]

36. I'm not sure I understand your question, but...

There are 260,000 settlers. However, most settlements are neither in nor around Palestinian population centers. If Ehud Barak's second offer (at Taba) which would have returned 97% of the West Bank to the Palestinians had been accepted about 200,000 settlers' homes would have remained in place.

Let me give you an example. Alfe Menashe is located less than two miles from Kfar Saba (Israel proper by any definition) and Qalqilya (Palestinian city). It is also about nine miles inland from the Mediterranean coast. Israel (1949 armistice line, pre-1967 "borders") was just over seven miles wide at that point. Alfe Menashe is on a high hilltop in western Samaria. From there, on a clear day, you can see from Haifa in the north, to Hadera, to Netanya, to Herzliya, to Tel Aviv, and all the way to Ashdod in the south. That is roughly 70% of Israel's population. Prior to 1967 there was nothing on this barren hill except a Jordanian gun emplacement used to shell Israeli cities. The settlement went up in 1967 for obvious reasons. Today the security fence is at the edge of Alfe Menashe. Nobody in Israel would dream of giving up this hill... again, for obvious reasons.

Alfe Menashe is a bedroom community, a suburb, of about 6,000 people. There are no extremists there. Some people there are secular, some modern Orthodox. Some vote Likud, some Labor, some even voted for Meretz (now Yahad). I can introduce you to people there who strongly supported the Oslo peace process even if it meant giving up their homes. They don't have those views any more, again, for obvious reasons. BTW, the name of the gas station on the road to Kfar Saba from Alfe Menashe is called the "Peace Stop". It was the site of a Palestinian terror attack in 2001.

Alfe Menashe can be connected to Israel without displacing even one Palestinian home.

Please explain to me why this settlement, given the history and context I have given you, shouldn't exist.

[TomClash]

43. By the way

according to Robert Malley, there was never an offer to return 97% of the West Bank. In January 2001 at Taba the Palestinians offered to exchange 3.1% of the West Bank for equivalent land abutting the West Bank and Gaza.

[Violet_Crumble]

48. I've already set her straight about that stuff...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x98176#98712

It looks as though it got totally ignored. Oh, well...

Violet...

[TomClash]

52. Sorry, I didn't read your post

It was ignored because it was based on facts.

[geek tragedy]

50. I'm not so unrealistic as to expect that all WB settlements will go away.

However, Israel has three options:

1) Disband the great majority of settlements in the WB and consolidate the remaineder within a workable permanent border; or

2) Grant all Palestinians living in the Occupied territories Israeli citizenship and the right to vote in Israeli elections; or

3) Becoming a truly apartheid state.

There is no fourth choice.

[geek tragedy]

49. Ask, and ye shall receive

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/isr-summary-eng

<snip>
Attacks by Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories

Israeli settlers stepped up attacks against Palestinians and their property throughout the West Bank and also increased attacks on international human rights activists. They destroyed and damaged trees owned by Palestinians and frequently prevented Palestinian farmers from harvesting their crops.

On 27 September, an Israeli settler shot dead Sayel Jabara, a Palestinian taxi driver, as he was driving his passengers between Nablus and Salem. The settler claimed that he shot Sayel Jabara because he thought that he might attack him, even though Sayel Jabara was not armed. The settler was released on bail less than 24 hours after the killing.

In September and October Israeli settlers, wearing hoods and armed with stones, wooden clubs and metal chains, assaulted two US citizens, members of the Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT), and AI delegates as they escorted Palestinian primary school children to school near Tuwani village in the Hebron area. CPT members Kim Lamberty sustained a broken arm and knee as well as bruising, and her colleague Chris Brown sustained a punctured lung and multiple bruises. The attackers came from the Israeli settlement of Havat Ma’on and returned there after the attacks. Israeli settlers from Havat Ma’on continued to attack Palestinian children on their way to school with impunity.
<snip>

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k3/mideast5.html

<snip>
According to B'Tselem, Israeli settlers in the Occupied Territories killed at least twelve Palestinian civilians from January to October 2002, and injured dozens more. Settlers attacked Palestinian homes, fields, cars and other property, and blocked major roads with unofficial checkpoints. On July 28, settlers from Kiryat Arba in Hebron killed two Palestinian children and injured at least fifteen others as they attacked and burned houses in Hebron following the funeral of two settlers killed by Palestinian gunmen two days earlier. Settler attacks against Palestinian civilians and civilian property were rarely prevented or halted by the Israeli authorities, and were particularly acute during the October-November olive harvest season.
<snip>

[riverwalker]

12. He killed three

innocent people. Raving lunatic "settlers" (that term cracks me up).

[davidinalameda]

13. I was afraid of this

the whole thing is going to blow up--we won't have to worry about Iran, we're going to have a war in Israel to deal with

[caitlyn]

34. You base the assessment on...

...exactly what? When was the last time you were in Israel? The territories?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Copperred]

25. ITS FRONT PAGE NEWS......

Funny.....i thought the same thing....a while back.


Breaking news out of Israel should stilll be on LBN for at least 6 hours..and then moved over...... its still FRONT PAGE NEWS.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dejaboutique]

28. I was wondering the SAME thing

why why why this issue - especially in the last 48 hours - is not allowed in general discussion or latest breaking news?????? I had to dig to find these posts. what gives? this is big big historical news and it is buried. makes you go hmmmm

[Caleb]

37. The Death toll has risen to four