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Elie Wiesel (The New York Times): The Dispossessed

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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 08:19 PM
Original message
Elie Wiesel (The New York Times): The Dispossessed

From The New York Times
Dated Sunday August 21



The Dispossessed
By Elie Wiesel


In 1991, when Saddam Hussein's Scud missiles fell in a deafening din on Tel Aviv, some Palestinians danced in the streets and on the roofs of their houses. I saw them. I was in Jerusalem, and I could see what was happening in the Arab quarter of the Old City. It happened again later, each time a suicide terrorist set off a bomb on a bus or in a restaurant. I evoke these scenes with sadness, and for a reason: we have just seen them repeated in Gaza.

The images of the evacuation itself are heart-rending. Some of them are unbearable. Angry men, crying women. Children, led away on foot or in the arms of soldiers who are sobbing themselves.

Let's not forget: these men and women lived in Gaza for 38 years. Successive governments, from the left and the right, encouraged them to settle there. In the eyes of their families, they were pioneers, whose idealism was to be celebrated.

And here they are, obliged to uproot themselves, to take their holy and precious belongings, their memories and their prayers, their dreams and their dead, to go off in search of a bed to sleep in, a table to eat on, a new home, a future among strangers.

Read more.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. I saw them go in
and knew then...as did they...that they would have to come out again, and it wouldn't be pretty.

Squatter's 'rights' never last for long.

Their own fault.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I totally agree.
And keep half of Jerusalem for the Palestinians too. As a Jew of an older time said, "Pride goeth before a fall."
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yes, the west bank
and east Jerusalem will go next. Fence or no fence.

I don't know how anyone thought this would ever work.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It was demographically impossible to begin with.
The infusion of "Iron Curtain" Jews helped for awhile but I think that source has been tapped out.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I think you nailed it. n/t
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 11:15 PM by barb162
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. That article is drool...
Edited on Sat Aug-20-05 08:43 PM by Violet_Crumble
The Palestinians are celebrating what they see as the end of the occupation and the dismantling of the illegal settlements that caused them so much misery, and Elie Wiesel bags them out for it and tries to make out that they're less sensitive and caring than Israelis? Maybe Elie Wiesel needs to open up his eyes and read some of the things that have been in the media these last few days. I've seen articles where Palestinians express their sympathy for the settlers because they can see it and relate in a way to what happened to them in 1948...

Elie Wiesel is talking about the removal of extremist settlers who removed to leave voluntarily as heart-rending and unbearable. Yet these same people are the ones who attacked soldiers and police, and who generally see the state of Israel as their enemy because of its democratic nature. They're the same sort of people who wouldn't think twice about attacking Palestinian civilians and/or kicking them out of their homes and discriminating against them. So I'm at a loss as to why I'm supposed to feel a shred of sympathy* for them in what is really just a big PR game. I know the more secular settlers were screwed over by Israeli govts, but the secular settlers have long gone, and they're not the people Wiesel is talking about when he speaks of angry settlers being dragged onto buses etc. Let's not forget that these settlers are getting compensated by the Israeli govt for moving, and I bet a large chunk of them will head straight to the West Bank, which leads me to almost believe they have some bizarre allergy to living in Israel itself...

Violet...

* In hindsight, I did feel sympathy when I saw settlers being forcibly removed on the news. My sympathy was for the Israeli policeman/soldier I saw on the news who had acid thrown on him. My sympathy was also for the police/troops I saw who had to endure a Nazi-saluting settler moron goose-stepping his way past them. But not one shred of sympathy for the settlers - they don't deserve any...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Wow. See no evil, hear no evil when it applies to the Palestinians!
What a discouraging and utterly revolting article but thank you for posting it. I just threw what books I had of Mr. Wiesel's in the trash. Is that it Eli? See no evil, hear no evil when it applies to the Palestinians but copiously weep for internationally despised settlers who have plundered the goods of the Palestinians and not one tear for the Palestinians who lost their entire heritage to those same settlers? Wow. Just wow.

Intro: As Israel's disengagement from Gaza enters Day 2, we go to Gaza City to speak with leading Israeli journalist Amira Hass. A majority of the Jewish settlers have accepted a compensation package - in between $150,000 to $400,000 - from the Israeli government in return for leaving Gaza. Hass reports that the thousands of Palestinians working for the settlers are receiving nothing.
============

(snip)

Amira Hass: ... Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in a televised address last night. It is unclear exactly how much the disengagement plan is costing the Israeli government. But last month it was reported Israel is seeking an additional $2 billion dollars or more in aid from the United States to help pay for the plan - which would in effect double the amount of aid Israel already receives from the U.S. The costs of the withdrawal include operations carried out by security forces as well as moving and compensating the settlers.

A majority of the settlers have accepted a compensation package from the government in return for leaving Gaza. An average family can expect to receive the equivalent of $150,000 to $400,000 in compensation, depending on house size, the number of children and length of residence in the occupied territories. On top of that, there are removal expenses, two years" free rent and redundancy compensation. Many of the settlers are already beneficiaries of government subsidies for settling the land.

(snip)

AMY GOODMAN: Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, in a televised address last night. It's unclear exactly how much the disengagement plan is costing the Israeli government, but last month it was reported Israel is seeking an additional $2 billion or more in aid from the United States to help pay for the plan, which would almost double the money it gets from the United States, as the largest recipient of foreign aid in the world. The costs of the withdrawal include operations carried out by security forces, as well as moving in compensating the settlers.

((snip / snip of how the Israeli settlers paid the Palestinians 1/3 of the minimum wage while paying other foreign workers the full minimum wage))

So, we cannot understand the wealth which they have acquired to settlers during the last year -- during the last 30-35 years, without remembering, without taking into consideration the very low salaries they paid or the very low cheap labor they got from Palestinian -- from the Palestinian labor market. They -- not only did the settlers settle in the land which is not theirs, on the Palestinian – very precious Palestinian land, which was taken from the use of -- possible use of Palestinian cities and refugee camps. Not only were they using the only sweet water left in the Gaza Strip, not only did they get all of the subsidies you mentioned, but they also enjoyed the very -- this low wages that they paid to their workers.

So their compensations now -- the Israeli government, the Israeli parliament issued a law a few weeks -- a month ago, law of compensations. And it specifically entitles Israeli workers, those who lived in the occupied territories, in the occupied Gaza Strip or those who lived in Israel but worked in the occupied Gaza Strip, and their employers were Israelis, it entitled them to two different sorts of compensations for the loss of their jobs. It specifically says, this law, that only Israelis get this compensations. One is called fees of adaptation for losing the job. And the other one actually entitles the workers to get compensations even though they were not fired from their jobs, because you can get compensations if you are being fired, severment, I think it’s called, severance compensation. But these are only for Israelis, not all, which means for Jews, not for Palestinians.


(snip)

AMIRA HASS: ... But let us not forget that at the same time Israel is accelerating and expanding its colonialist project in the Gaza, in the West Bank. It is a project which actually cuts the Palestinian territory into small pieces, small Bantustans, and enlarges and connects all Israeli settlements and blocks settlements to each other and to Israel proper. In ten or 20 – and this was the main reason why Sharon was very clever, very clever politician, why Sharon decided to sacrifice the settlements and the settlers of the Gaza Strip for the sake of leaving the 400,000 settlers in the West Bank. So, you have the -- you sacrifice 8,000 settlers for 400,000 in the West Bank, including Jerusalem.

(snip)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/16/1326221

The entire interview is worth reading. Amira Hass is such a brave woman & honest journalist.

Excuse me my friends while I shed not one, not one single tear for those settlers or for this current charade.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Amira Hass...
Have you read 'Reporting From Ramallah'?

I noticed in the intro to the article you posted, it says that she's still in Gaza. She's been living in Gaza and the West Bank for a few years. There goes the claim by one or two in this forum that the Palestinians won't allow a single Jew to live in Gaza...

btw, great to see you posting down here again! :)

Violet...
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Drool indeed. nt
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. My own reaction
I find Mr. Wiesel's empathy for the departing settlers touching. Although I personally have never approved of the settlement program and regard Israeli settlements in occupied territory as obstacles to peace and violations of the Geneva Conventions, the fact that these people are losing their homes is heart breaking. These people are being uprooted. That is not something to take lightly. Not all of the settlers are political ideologues. Many are feeling lost and bewildered.

I was disappointed that Mr. Wiesel could not share the joy of the Palestinians in the moment. This was something more positive for them to cheer than Saddam's scuds or a suicide bomber's carnage. This is the return of part of their nation. That alone is worth celebrating.
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I too find some small sympathy for the settlers
No, I do not support the settler movement, but rather I have some small sympathy to many of them as a group because they were allowed and even encouraged to setup their lives there. No, not to those who broke the law and pushed the envelope to settle there, but those who were officially brought in and supported.

But I too think that the Palestinians should be given some degree of freedom to celebrate this for the reason you cited.

L-
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. It's hard to get very worked up, taking it all in context.
Mr. Wiesel seems to have a drum to beat here.
But all human suffering should be attended to.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Sympathy...
The best way I can describe the sort of sympathy I feel is similar to how I feel about people who buy something really really cheap and then lose it because it's stolen. They don't necessarily know it was stolen, and were encouraged to buy it, and they lose out bigtime in the end. In the case of the secular settlers, who I feel differently about to the religious hardliners who deserve not one iota of any sort of sympathy, they won't be feeling lost and bewildered for long with their huge compensation packages. I'd argue that most of them are feeling lost and bewildered, as this has been on the cards for a long time now and from what I've read, many had prepared themselves..

Elie Wiesel's focus on the images of hardline settlers being forcibly removed as being heartrending and unbearable is a bit much. My reaction when seeing those images on telly was 'screw them'. Any who could have deserved a bit of sympathy had left voluntarily a fair while before that...

Violet...
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tucoramirez2005 Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. The US is providing millions to comfort them
They're laughing all the way to the bank.

I watched interviews with the "settlers", and couldn't believe how many of them were American, without a trace of any other accent.
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Orangeone Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. elie wiesel

After I heard how he was for the war in Iraq, I can't stand him. To me, anything he says has no meaning because he's just a hypocrite, and a racist.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. Elie Wiesel
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 04:55 PM by TomClash
once debated Henry Kissinger and said nuclear proliferation was the greatest problem facing mankind. Then Israel obtained 100 nuclear missiles and we never heard that from him again.

Now we get diaspora rhetoric. Only it's more like diaspora for dollars, as they collect cash on the way to the mikva.

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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
17. I would like to see his last sentence about PEACE repeated
Edited on Mon Aug-22-05 11:51 AM by barb162
over and over. Any time people anywhere of any nationality, race, etc., are forced out of their homes, it's a lasting horror. I hope the resettlement of Gaza goes smoothly.

"Gaza, after all, is but one chapter in a book that must ultimately be about peace."

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