Secular Jews v religious Jews. A lot depends on outcome (Amos Oz)

[Violet_Crumble]

The nature of Jewishness in Israel is being played out in Gaza, writes Amos Oz.

THE Jewish settlers in Gaza and in the West Bank have a dream for the future of Israel. I also have a dream for the future of Israel. But their sweet dream is my nightmare, whereas my dreams look to them as poison.

The settlers' dream is to create a "Greater Israel" with Jewish settlements wall-to-wall. In these settlements only Jews can live, whereas Palestinians can come for work only, doing the simple low-paid jobs. In such a state democracy will have to bow to the rabbis. The Knesset, the government, the Supreme Court, will be allowed to continue to exist provided the rabbis approve of their decisions. The settlers believe that once Greater Israel becomes a religious entity and a "holy nation", the Messiah will come and the complete redemption of the Jewish people will materialise.

In this fantasy of the settlers there is no place for the Palestinian people except as humble servants and grateful labourers. Moreover, in the settlers' fantasy there is no place for me, there is no place for secular, modern Israel. My friends and I are "out" unless we repent. At least we are not supposed to stand in the way of building more settlements and increasing the existing ones. If we, secular Israelis, erase our own existence, the settlers will shower us with brotherly love. But if we insist that we have a different vision for Israel, we immediately become traitors, Arab-lovers, or even Nazis.

But we too have a dream for Israel, totally different than the settlers' religious fantasy. We want to live in peace and in freedom, not under the rule of the rabbis, not even under the rule of the Messiah, but under our own elected government.

We have a dream of being free from the lasting occupation of the Palestinian territories. Israel and Palestine, for almost 40 years, are like a jailer and a prisoner, handcuffed to each other. After so many years there is almost no difference — the jailer is not free and the prisoner is not free. Israel will be a free nation only when the occupation and the settlements are terminated and Palestine becomes an independent next-door country.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/secular-jews-v-religious-jews-a-lot-depends-on-outcome/2005/08/23/1124562864560.html

[Spinzonner]

1. Marx was an optimist

[bluesoul]

2. Amira rules

Great article as always by Amira. :)

"My friends and I are "out" unless we repent. At least we are not supposed to stand in the way of building more settlements and increasing the existing ones. If we, secular Israelis, erase our own existence, the settlers will shower us with brotherly love. But if we insist that we have a different vision for Israel, we immediately become traitors, Arab-lovers, or even Nazis.

Sad but true...

But we too have a dream for Israel, totally different than the settlers' religious fantasy. We want to live in peace and in freedom, not under the rule of the rabbis, not even under the rule of the Messiah, but under our own elected government."

Now that's another wonderful wish yet with all thouse fundamentalist almost seems impossible in the near future...

[Coastie for Truth]

3. Secular versus Sectarian is a universal fault line -- in many societies

Not just Israeli or Jewish.

See Thomas Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas? How Conservatives Won the Heart of America" - or the writings of noted Unitarian-Universalist theologian Forrest Church ("The Separation of Church and State : Writings on a Fundamental Freedom by America's Founders", "The American Creed: A Spiritual and Patriotic Primer") and of Mark Whitten ("The Myth of Christian America : What You Need to Know About the Separation of Church and State").

Just in the USA-

-Choice and Feminism
-GLBT Issues
-Stem Cell Research
-"Intelligent Design"
-Display of the Ten Commandments in Public Buildings
-Prayer and Bible Reading in Schools (obviously only the King James version, not the Hertz or SS Cyril and Methodious versions; obviously not the Koran)
-Denial of Communion to Pro-Choice Democratic Candidates (but what about Pro-War or Pro-Capital Punishment Republican Candidates?)

Hardly only a Jewish or Israeli issue.

More then Slavery, Suffrage, and even Race -- this has been THE fault line in American society.

And look at the sectarian-secular divide in Muslim society.