RW comes out guns-a-blazing on 9/11 conspiracies

[underpants]

I post this because our local afternoon (and after Rush ) hate radio guy was screaming about this yesterday afternoon and then I caught part of O'Reilly's show last night were he used it as a platform against all things liberal (read: defray even the hint Bush negligence or incompetence) and even tried to bring Michael Moore into it. The local radio guy actually got himself turned around (surely an accident) and began discussing conspiracy theories about Clinton being involved or at least, some say, responsible (see "defray" line above).

Newshounds has more

Ever since Scripps Howard released poll findings last week that 36% of Americans believe it is at least somewhat likely that the federal government was involved in or took no action to prevent the attacks of September 11th, FOX news talking heads have been ridiculing and dismissing the possibility. On the other hand, they have yet to cause such a kerfuffle over the equally remarkable poll finding that the number of Americans who believe WMDs were found in Iraq has risen to 50%. We don't need to ask why the double standard.

John Gibson jumped on it right away. His August 3 "My Word" rant dismissed alternative theories as garbage and attributed them to (what else?) hatred of Bush.

The torch was passed to Bill O'Reilly, who tonight 8/7/06 on The Factor had James B. Meig, Editor-in-chief of Popular Mechanics, as his lone guest on the topic. Mr Meig's sole qualification to comment on the topic appears to be his position at the magazine which published an article in March 2005 challenging the emerging conspiracy theories, which article has now been greatly expanded into a book, Debunking 9/11 Myths. (The title appears to be a direct reply to an earlier book, Debunking 9/11, which documents its findings of government involvement.) It was clearly mentioned that this book is based on science, something not always of importance to FOX viewers.

O'Reilly dragged Michael Moore into it, cuing the viewers that this is far, far left stuff (36%!) but immediately backed off, acknowledging that MM didn't say this but it's that level of paranoia, that the government is so evil it wants the "war on terror." He used other disparaging phrases throughout: "nutty college professors" and "nutty conspiracy garbage," "nonsense",

I don't buy into LIHOP or MIHOP myself. I simply can't believe that this bunch of yahoos could pull something like that off as they have failed at every single thing they have tried including PRE-9/11. I think that in five more years Bush will be generally blamed for his administrations complete apathy, negligence, and incompetence. It has only been 5 years at this point and at least 1/3 (36%) are starting to ask "How did THAT happen?"

Well the RW noise machine is coming out on full offense on this one. They are using it to paint anyone who dare even think it as a crazy nutty UNAMERICAN who wants us to loose and thus justify their ever waking hatred of Bush. Something like that. Don't be surprised if this is the new wedge issue. No middle ground on this, you either completely reject the conspiracy theories OR you don't.

[HeeBGBz]

1. Interesting. My freeper boss tried to talk that same shit

Yesterday. That must be this weeks RW talking points.

[AtomicKitten]

2. Jay Leno talked with McCain last night about this.

Leno said a poll indicated one-third of Americans believed the government had something to do with 9/11. They both agreed that that indicted cynicism and poo-poo'd it.

[bunkerbuster1]

3. Dovetails nicely with their "Photo-Doctoring" story

Lefties are all Kray-Zees who don tinfoil hats and concoct nonsense while our 100% pure, decent, honorable Administration and the entire Department of Defense AND the IDF are doing the thankless task of defending our freedoms.

Ok, go out and spread that around.

[underpants]

9. Yeah O'Reilly mentioned that last night

Surprsied? No you shouldn't be. It was the first that I had heard of it. The liberal guest he had on ( wow ) pointed out that the guy responsible had been fired which O'Reilly agreed with and quickly changed the subject.

Oh this might surprise you this was in a segment on character assassination by the wacky leftists featuring Micelle Malkin telling us about the terrible horrible character assassination things that the wacky extremist leftists do.
http://www.newshounds.us/2006/08/07/bill_oreillys_fixation_on_far_left_persecution_continues.php#more

Bill O'Reilly claims that only people on the Left label and malign people unjustly. Michelle Malkin, definitely on the Right, admitted tonight on The Factor that she " calls people what they are" but that must not count to O'Reilly because this is what he said to his viewers.
"I don't know if anyone on the right does it. Couldn't come up with anyone"

[indepat]

4. To reject conspiracy theories, one must accept ineptitude of a colossal

magnitude although those in power are extremely apt at implementing all facets of an extreme RW agenda and this just doesn't jive.

[SteppingRazor]

13. On the contrary...

I think, if anything, this administration has demonstrated "ineptitude of a colossal magnitude" in just about everything it does, from economic policy (asinine tax cuts) to foreign policy (one word, starts with an "i" and ends with a "q") to domestic policy (the Terri Schiavo idiocy), ad nauseum.

[petgoat]

36. Who benefits from this "ineptitude"? "Ooops! I win again! Sorry!" nt

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. Not surprised. It catapults the propaganda that The Left are all

nuts, crazies, "extremists" (note that is the new term used by Bushetals), AND they hate Bush! These days, the fastest way to disarm the opposition is to label them A) Terrorist B) Conspiracy Theorist but they're working on marrying the terms into a simple "Extremists" label.

There's is no doubt in my mind, that if a Democrat were President in 2000/2004, that 9/11 LIHOP/MIHOP "facts" would be stuck in him like a voodoo doll.

[HughBeaumont]

6. What they don't point out is that

many of the so-called "conspiracy theorists" aren't advocating nor do they regularly bring up many of the items the Chertoff-penned PM article "debunks".

You want a good start against these blowhards, read The Terror Timeline by Paul Thompson. You won't find even a HINT of controlled demo, holograms or pods in this book; only the documented events we know happened before, during and after 9/11 and the hard questions that need to be asked of that day. Paul is a "just the facts" guy, and the RW coming out against sources from their own media would only make them look stupid.

[ThoughtCriminal]

7. 110% of the attention is focused

on what I think are the least plausible conspiracy theories - controlled demolition and no airliner hitting Pentagon. Virtually NO attention is directed to the most obvious lies, deceptions and implausible incompetance required to explain the timelines and inaction before and during. It's all just equating anyone who believes there is a government conspiracy subscribes to those two theories.

[ixion]

11. I don't understand why people think controlled demolition

is so implausible.


Statistically speaking, the odds of two mile-high skyscrapers collapsing straight down at near free fall speed within minutes of each other after being struck (at the top) in entirely different locations (The only two known instances of this), nears the realm of the impossible, but is well within the realm of improbable.

Just my two cents.

[TrogL]

19. Here we go again

It's really easy.

Gravity goes down. Buildings cannot fall sideways.

Nobody said they fell "within minutes". You are engaging in "straw man" logical fallacy.

Most of the evidence presented by controlled demololition theorists is similarly ridiculous. There's talk of firemen hearing "explosions". You cannot directly sense an explosion. You can hear "BANG" and interpret it as an explosion. You can see flying glass and interpret it as an explosion.

[ixion]

20. lol...you're funny

:rofl:

Gravity goes down. Buildings cannot fall sideways.

Huh? It sounds like you're defining gravity in a vacuum, which of course this is not. Space is curved, my friend. There is no such thing as a straight line 'down', as it were. And who said buildings can't fall sideways? I'm sorry, I missed that particular Law of the Universe. Rather, I've understood it that when things -- especially large slabs of commercial quality steel and concrete -- fall from a mile up in the air, colliding off of one another an impacting undamaged concrete and steel on the way down pretty much falls all over the place. In order for the building to fall straight 'down', as you describe, it would require overcoming inertia at each level w/o any loss of energy -- something that defies one of the fundamental laws of this gravity of which you speak.


Nobody said they fell "within minutes". You are engaging in "straw man" logical fallacy.

Uh, I SAID they fell within minutes of each other. And that's a factual statement. A straw-man? Two anomalies occurred within minutes of each other. That, in and of itself, is a noteworthy fact, not a straw man.


There's talk of firemen hearing "explosions"

I think you mean to say that there are DOCUMENTED INTERVIEWS of firemen who heard explosions.

You cannot directly sense an explosion.

Try this: Light an M80 and throw it into a bucket. Place your face over the bucket. Tell me if you don't 'sense' an explosion. :eyes:

[chat_noir]

8. Chertoff's cousin wrote the Popular Mechanics article

No bias there, eh?

[underpants]

10. Oh! that wasn't mentioned

VIDEO here
http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/index.html

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. Source? n/t

[stepnw1f]

12. Who in Our Government Made the Order to "Stand Down"?

I'm talking about NORAD. This I want answered....

If It's Just a Crazy Conspiracy Theory why talk about it or even try to refute it? Just give us all an honest answer. Why all the secrecy?

[KKKarl is an idiot]

14. ..

Bush approval ratings in the 36-40% range. Nonsense I cannot understand why so many people still approve of the job the president does. They have their right to an opinion no matter how wrong I think it is. It is called freedom. Freedom to express ones opinion. Something the right will never understand. They hate freedoms.

[mother earth]

15. Of course it's all the crazy tinfoil left, yeah right, that's why some

of the most vocal scholars for 911 truth are republicans who have actually served under Bush Sr or Reagan...Faux & Co. just spin it the way they want it despite the truth. Truth can be so evasive...when was the last time we've had any of it from the gov't and when has there been responsible journalism?

Please...there are so many discrepancies because we were fed lies....heck we are still waiting for the truth about JFK's assassination. Those records are still sealed. I used to think the truth would come out. Now, what I think will happen is that the American people will wise up without the gov't having any transparency and without a real 911 Commission.

Why be so resistant to providing answers to the people?
The gov't actually promotes the growth of the 911 Truth movement by their very refusal to provide answers to REAL questions, not theory, valid questions that still remain unanswered. But don't hold your breath for anything coming from our gov't, they only do disinformation these days. If & when the truth is completely and unquestionably exposed it will come from true patriots, not elected officials or smarmy & slimy "journalists" like O'Reilly, Rush & Malkin.

[pauldp]

25. self delete. n/t

[Cassandra]

16. The more they insist that it's just a crazy theory...

the more I think they had some involvement in this. Why else would they be bringing it up so loudly right now?

[underpants]

17. Off subject

When I heard Tom Delay get up and laughingly talk about the "conspiracy theories" about Rove controlling the Ohio vote from a computer in the White House... I knew it was without a doubt true at that very moment. Okay maybe not running things from a computer but definitely that it was fixed. I had help out jumping on that wagon but when they come out screaming and yelling like that, you know it is true.

Jim Lampley's article on Huffington post is what really cemented the deal for me. RFK Jr's RS piece just brought it all together.

[frylock]

18. word up!

My sentiments, exactly.

[LSK]

21. why cant there be middle ground?? I think EVERYONE should be there

Nobody should automatically believe the official story is true and at the same time NOBODY knows exactly what really happened.

The point where I am is that I have a lot of questions that dont make sense.

- How come nobody saw a plane hit the Pentagon? And no video footage of it?
- How do cell phones work way up in jetliners?
- What happened to the black boxes?
- Who gave orders to stand down?
- How come the BBC interviewed some of the 9/11 Hijackers after 9/11?

Does that make me a conspiracy theorist? No. I just find that the official story has a lot of holes in it.

One other point, they used this same tatic about the 2004 election. Anyone who said it was stolen was labeled as a crazy conspriracy theorist and a sore loser. Well I guess RFK and John Conyers are conspiracy theorists too.

[WoodrowFan]

23. you're right

you're right, your questions make no sense...

- How come nobody saw a plane hit the Pentagon? And no video footage of it?
Hundreds saw it happen.

- How do cell phones work way up in jetliners?
they don't work well up high but they work sometimes at lower altitudes, and the on-plane phones work fine.

- What happened to the black boxes?
some were found.

- Who gave orders to stand down?
see FAA report, no one did.

- How come the BBC interviewed some of the 9/11 Hijackers after 9/11?
they didn't. must have been the voices in your head again.

Here, read something by someone who's not a RW nut job (like Jones, Alex Jones, etc)

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

In the meantime, welcome to my ignore (ie the "nut") list...

[LSK]

27. yeah it was the voices in my head

Somehow they can create articles on BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

[John Q. Citizen]

34. OK, that does it! I'm

putting the BBC on "ignor!"

La la la la I can't hear BBC, BBC is a whack job, BBC is delusional,

but first....
From the BBC article -(last paragraph)

"FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt."


OK, done! Robert Mueller, the FBI Director is now officially on ignor also!!!


La la la la I can't hear FBI director Robert Mueller, FBI director Robert Mueller is a delusional whack job....

Who'se next???

[underpants]

30. ¿ ?

The BBC interviewed them AFTER the attacks??? :shrug:


I have never heard that one.

[John Q. Citizen]

35. Here's the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

[Recursion]

24. That's odd, the *really* hardcore right has been MIHOP since 9/12

They see it as just another link in the Ruby Ridge / Waco chain (and frankly, the more I find out about Ruby Ridge the more sympathy I have for the people who have been freaking out about it).

[pauldp]

26. Can we ALL AGREE that the 911 Commission has lost all credibility?

They lied to us about knowing NORAD lied to them.
They didn't tell us about Able Danger. They didn't tell us about the war games.
They didn't tell us General Ahmad of the Pakistani ISI giving the order for Saeed Sheikh
to pay Atta $100,000. They sure as hell didn't tell us Pakistani officials bribed them.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060313/asp/nation/story_5962372.asp
And on and on and on.

If they have nothing to hide why are they hiding everything?

I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE AN INCOMPETENCE THEORIST!
WE MUST DEMAND A NEW INVESTIGATION INTO 911!
WE MUST TAKE 911 AS A POLITICAL TOOL AWAY FROM THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION!

THEY ARE FUCKING LYING TO US ABOUT 911.

I don't care if you believe it was incompetence, criminal negligence, LIHOP, or MIHOP.
We have to get to the bottom of this. If you think the right wing pundits are freaking now,
just wait till half the country starts demanding a new investigation.

[underpants]

29. Although I think their report is a starting point in searching for info

(again I am not LIHO{ or MIHOP) the way they wrote jokes into it is pretty funny.

The part where W interrupt Cheney to comment that he used to fly interceptors.... they should have put (crickets chirp) in there. :rofl:

The other part that no one mentions is that the first 45 minutes after the second attack Bush and Rove and Ari (Bartlett too I think) spent it figuring out what their message would be. They weren't in the command loop at all. A clear illustration of how they are all show, all politics, no policy, no substance. I don't know the page off the top of my head but I actually laughed out loud when I read it.

Speaking of which- remember when their report came out? There was no way anyone could have read it yet but all you heard was "Well there really isn't anything damning in that report"??? That was the company line. There is lots of stuff in that report that you can take and add onto or refute through research.

[mother earth]

31. And they absolutely will, like Dylan Avery said in his interview

with Vanity Fair. We who have believed it all along that it was all lies have already accepted it, but WAIT until the naysayers realize what really happened. WAIT until that dam breaks....one third now & growing strong.

ANYBODY who really looks at the so called evidence and lack of evidence & all of the remaining issues absolutely cannot say we have the whole truth. There are just far too many contradictions & unresolved matters.

This is just the beginning, it grows, & it will until there is a reopening.

It's not conspiracy theory to want a real independent investigation. They can ridicule, but the real motive is to discredit & that's the only thing that's transparent. Their real agenda shines through & makes us question all the more!

[pauldp]

32. The more we push for a real investigation the more they will fight back.

That is why we have to unify around the new investigation theme.
It is a sure fire way to bring the NeoCons down. They will call us crazy
conspiracy theorists just like Tom Delay did when Boxer questioned the Ohio electors
in'04 - but 911 truth -whatever it is - will set us free.

[mother earth]

33. I'm with you, 100%!

:kick:

[snowbear]

28. Screw Rush... you SHOULD be listening to Thom Hartmann on this topic!

And if you don't happen to have him in your area, find an AAR link somewhere and listen on the web!

Thom Hartmann has been linking the insane conspiracy theories to the rightwing wackjobs for months now..

Thom explains how the rightwing loonies, with the assistance of their hate-spewing-bloggers are writing lunitic stories of over-the-top conspiracies, how they are calling into various radio stations posing as Democrats.. and much, much more!

If you want not only the story behind what's going on... but who is doing it, you really have to tune into Thom Hartmann!!

O'Reilly has no gonads, or he'd invite Hartmann onto his program to explain how it's the rightwing loonies who are actually POSING as Democrats as they spout out all these conspiracy theories!

http://www.thomhartmann.com/

Just when you think the radical right has done all it can to show America how desperate they are, they start pulling this crap.

Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, and several others on AAR and Jones Radio Network are doing a great job of exposing the RW wacks on this!