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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-14-06 09:03 PM Original message |
Elevator shafts |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-14-06 09:09 PM Response to Original message |
1. More than fireproofing... |
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mrgerbik (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-14-06 10:10 PM Response to Original message |
2. also |
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petgoat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-14-06 11:34 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. WTC2 collapsed first 'cause the fires were going out. nt |
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mrgerbik (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Aug-14-06 11:39 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. and maybe telltale signs of themrate n/t |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 12:17 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. The greater asymmetry of the damage was a factor. |
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mrgerbik (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 12:31 AM Response to Reply #5 |
6. then the tower would topple over towards the damaged side |
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wildbilln864 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 12:32 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. what are you talking about? |
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wildbilln864 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 12:41 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. this one didn't collapse. |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 06:42 PM Response to Reply #8 |
25. Neither did this one |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:43 PM Response to Reply #25 |
31. An aircraft hit didn’t weaken this one. n/t |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 06:10 AM Response to Reply #31 |
52. The Towers survived the impact of the crash |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 11:29 AM Response to Reply #52 |
53. They didn't survive impact + fire. |
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wildbilln864 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 12:10 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. wrong IMO... |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 12:38 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Isn't it asymmetric? |
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wildbilln864 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 11:21 PM Response to Reply #57 |
66. I agree... |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:39 PM Response to Reply #8 |
28. It did not burn nor was it steel-framed. n/t |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 04:52 AM Response to Reply #28 |
48. Misread the responses |
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Make7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 05:02 AM Response to Reply #48 |
50. Not a big deal - we all do that from time to time. ( n/t ) |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 12:59 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. The "tree analogy" has been discussed here. |
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KJF (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 01:11 AM Response to Reply #3 |
11. Alternatively... |
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Jazz2006 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 12:49 AM Response to Original message |
9. Interesting. Do tell us more about the elevator shafts when you |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 01:34 AM Response to Original message |
12. Right on. |
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KJF (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 01:52 AM Response to Original message |
13. I've got a question (actually 2) |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 05:06 AM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Well... |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 04:12 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. Well? |
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Grateful for Hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 04:14 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. I noticed your reply |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 08:25 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. Maybe... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 10:02 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. Dislodged fireproofing |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:46 PM Response to Reply #19 |
32. Why wouldn't an aircraft hit disloge the fireproofing? |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:48 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. Why WOULD it? |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 12:24 AM Response to Reply #33 |
42. It's not like automobile paint. |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 02:15 AM Response to Reply #42 |
45. So now it's bad "vibrations"? |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 11:47 AM Response to Reply #45 |
54. In the direct path of impacting debris... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 03:39 AM Response to Reply #54 |
98. What difference would that make? |
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AZCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 08:27 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. There's definitely an "ebb and flow" |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-15-06 10:05 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. Right you are. |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 05:07 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. It just .... |
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wildbilln864 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 11:20 AM Response to Reply #21 |
23. Hello quickesst... |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:55 PM Response to Reply #21 |
34. How do you expect the lower part of the tower... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 11:02 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. The top parts didn't fall on the lower parts. They rotated |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 12:05 AM Response to Reply #38 |
40. Indeed they rotated... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 02:08 AM Response to Reply #40 |
44. They fell because the buildings beneath them fell |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 06:05 AM Response to Reply #34 |
74. I wouldn't expect the lower part of the tower |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 03:05 PM Response to Reply #74 |
82. Evidence of pancaking... |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 06:38 PM Response to Reply #82 |
85. The visual evidence |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 11:22 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. I did not say these walls were "short" simpliciter... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 03:43 AM Response to Reply #88 |
99. There is absolutely no evidence of pancaking anywhere. |
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KJF (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 05:42 AM Response to Reply #14 |
22. Nist says: |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 05:54 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. When I watched... |
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mirandapriestly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:04 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. HA! "ultra, time-delayed fuel " |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:32 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Fuel needs oxigen to burn. |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:41 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. Maybe it hit somebody's cigar! |
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mirandapriestly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:57 PM Response to Reply #27 |
35. Yeah, I saw that on "wikipedia".eom |
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DemInDistress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 08:33 PM Response to Reply #27 |
63. you mean "shaft" singular |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 10:42 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. I mean "shafts" plural. |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 06:32 AM Response to Reply #65 |
76. According to this report |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 02:54 PM Response to Reply #76 |
80. Interresting... |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 05:41 PM Response to Reply #80 |
84. That's where |
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DemInDistress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 12:24 PM Response to Reply #65 |
77. shaft..singular..just one elevator ran the length of both towers. |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 02:48 PM Response to Reply #77 |
79. I forgot car #7 so that makes three... |
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Jazz2006 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 01:37 AM Response to Reply #63 |
70. You seem to be suggesting, DemInDistress, that |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 06:29 AM Response to Reply #70 |
75. From what I remember |
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DemInDistress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 12:29 PM Response to Reply #70 |
78. yes jazz.. not to forget that shafts were hermetically sealed |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 02:59 PM Response to Reply #78 |
81. Quite possibly... |
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Jazz2006 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 04:43 PM Response to Reply #78 |
83. Link, please, DemInDistress. n/t |
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DemInDistress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 12:01 AM Response to Reply #83 |
90. here is an elevator diagram... notice there is only 1 (one) |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 01:33 AM Response to Reply #90 |
94. This is a side view. It does not picture all the individual elevators. |
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Jazz2006 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 01:49 AM Response to Reply #90 |
97. That doesn't support your point, DemInDistress. Link, please. |
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DemInDistress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 06:57 PM Response to Reply #97 |
105. still looking jazz you ???? |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:40 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. Dripped down AND up |
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mirandapriestly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 10:59 PM Response to Reply #29 |
36. wasn't there no soot? Maybe I'm wrong about that |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 11:01 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. Did not "drip up". Rather: was blown up. Think air pressure... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-16-06 11:04 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. Right. Blew out the lobby then blew a quarter mile up to the roof. |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 12:15 AM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Blowing air up is not much harder than blowing it down... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 02:05 AM Response to Reply #41 |
43. It burns outside, it explodes inside, it falls down, it floats up, |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 12:00 PM Response to Reply #43 |
55. The fuel fires are not assumed... |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 05:19 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. The photo.... |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 08:09 PM Response to Reply #58 |
62. That's because a hot burning spot wasn't located "right behind her". |
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wildbilln864 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 11:36 PM Response to Reply #55 |
67. Now I definitely have to call |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 01:32 AM Response to Reply #67 |
69. WTC fires and nuclear power plants.... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 04:01 AM Response to Reply #69 |
100. I don't doubt that the heat output rivaled a nuclear power plant. |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 08:07 AM Response to Reply #69 |
103. First you... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 02:17 AM Response to Reply #41 |
46. Deleted message |
DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 10:50 PM Response to Reply #41 |
87. The fuel in an aircraft |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 11:37 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. A jet engine directs the hot expanding combustion gasses... |
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dailykoff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 04:03 AM Response to Reply #89 |
101. Elevators mix, preheat, and compress jet fuel? |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 04:47 AM Response to Reply #22 |
47. In it's simplest form an explosion is merely a |
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KJF (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 05:37 AM Response to Reply #47 |
51. OK, fair enough |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 10:10 PM Response to Reply #51 |
86. It's rather difficult to tell how much fuel would be required |
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mrgerbik (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 01:03 AM Response to Reply #86 |
91. which would be where the fuel had entered... not 80 floors below n/t |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 05:46 AM Response to Reply #91 |
102. I'm sure you were trying to make a point, Perhaps |
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KJF (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 01:12 AM Response to Reply #86 |
93. 25,000 |
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LARED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 08:31 AM Response to Reply #93 |
104. So what do you conclude from that information? (n/t) |
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DoYouEverWonder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 05:02 AM Response to Reply #22 |
49. I can't see how fuel from the airplanes |
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savemefromdumbya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 07:49 PM Response to Reply #49 |
59. the fuel burnt off in the fireball the rest is baloney |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 08:02 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. Office fires without jet fuel all are baloney? |
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savemefromdumbya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 08:05 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. not the sort of liquid that runs through the walls and shafts |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 08:52 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. Just remember... |
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wildbilln864 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-17-06 11:45 PM Response to Reply #60 |
68. Please name ... |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 01:51 AM Response to Reply #68 |
71. The temperature of a candle flame is 2500 degree F. |
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mrgerbik (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 01:10 AM Response to Reply #71 |
92. doesn't mean |
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Carefulplease (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 01:38 AM Response to Reply #92 |
95. Why is that highly doubtful? |
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mrgerbik (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-19-06 01:48 AM Response to Reply #95 |
96. if the fuel for the fire |
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Jazz2006 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 02:22 AM Response to Reply #14 |
72. Sorry, I hadn't noticed that you addressed me until now since you |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-18-06 05:25 AM Response to Reply #72 |
73. See... |
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