SO I am watching this video of a WTC tower going down.. whats this?

[FogerRox]

I just got a new computer, its lacking any capture SW for me to grab a frame. SOO...

At about 24 seconds in.. there appears to be a section of WTC outer wall still standing... A Sliver..

The rest of the building goes down, pulling a good part of the smoke/dust with it....

And there it is.... this sliver of wall still standing.. until about 33- seconds. Then the SLiver starts to slide down...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n8xgwHBLYY&mode=related&search=

Now I have been following this forum just a little bit.... Maybe not enuf. Anyway, here goes.

Does the Pancake theory allow for the floors to fall, while the outer walls partially stay put? Like dropping those fake potatoe chips back into the can they came from. Can the floors collapse independently of the outside walls?

Or if the core was taken out, as the floors collapse, they might leave a bit of the outside wall... no?

If the act of pancaking must take out the outside walls, WTF am I seeing?

[canetoad]

1. I think what you are looking at

is a version of the ubiquetous 'dustspire.gif'. (Google for it)

It is believed to be the remnants of core columns left standing after the floors have fallen away. I have always found this to be a fascinating image. For a long while many people boggled at the possibility that standing steel columns turned to dust instantaneously and were blown away.

What I see after watching it so many times that my eyes bled and my brain ached, is core colums precariously still standing until they slip straight down, perpendicularly to the debris. I believe the illusion of turning to dust is the result of this downward slip being so instant and slick that powdered concrete clinging to the core colums was left momentarily suspended in air until it too went the way of the rest of the buildings.

It is so interesting because those columns needed to be severed at or very closely above ground level for it to slip down in the way it did. Grab a copy of dustspire.gif and you will see that the top of the columns, which have a couple of knobby bits, stay intact. Now I can get my head around the idea that the floors collapsed leaving part of the core standing for a few seconds. Then I would expect that slender remnant to sway, topple and fall. Probably sideways. The straight down bit puzzles me.

[FoxOnTheRun]

2. I think it's the outside wall

when you look where the tower stood

[FogerRox]

3. Thats my impression, its the outside wall

I found the .gif mentioned by the 1st reply. I'll look more tommorrow.

edit, I am back... I am staying up too late again...

Look at these pix:

http://plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/ne-spire.htm

1st pic, right side, see the water tower, its lined up with the right side of the WTC tower. All further pix seem to show the water tower lined up with the "spires".

I think its the outside wall, and the core is long gone.

TIme to sleep

[canetoad]

4. Okee dokee

I'll have another look and compare and get back to ya

[FogerRox]

5. from Plaguepuppy

plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archiveP9111198.jpg

THe water tower is about inline with the left edge of the tower.

plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/P9111200.jpg

Now THe water tower is about inline with the Spires....

I'm thinkin.... the core was taken out.. and is long gone by the second pic I tried to post

[FogerRox]

6. These pix are a bit different, could be core ???????

http://st12.startlogic.com/~xenonpup/New_Spire/

[FogerRox]

7. wmv for ya

http://st12.startlogic.com/~xenonpup/video%20archive/second.fall.new.view.wmv

[Applan]

8. But the pictures are taken from a slightly different perspective

I think it's part of the core: if you look at the first pic
http://plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/ne-spire.htm
you can see the side of the building behind the water tower but after the tower has fallen the water tower is in line with the edge of that building suggesting that the photographer has moved to the right. Which would mean that the water tower has moved to the left relative to the WTC tower. So what was the middle of the WTC tower is now in line with the water tower; so it must be the core (I reckon).
Also look at the top part of the brown building between the water tower and WTC tower that is smaller than the rest of the building. The edge of that is half way across the WTC tower before it falls but is in line with the "core" piece after collapse.
So the question might be, why did this core piece fall after the rest of the tower?

[FogerRox]

9. yes good point

but back to the OP. If this is the outside wall..... does the Pancake theory flop? Could the floors have fallen if this is the outside wall?

[sabbat hunter]

11. yes they could have

the outside wall which supported most of the loads of the building, were tied to the inner core with trusses. those trusses could have easily broken free, the core and floor collapsing leaving the outer wall standing briefly.

[Sinti]

10. To me, it looks like a piece of the aluminum cladding is still standing

It's not the core or the spire. The current pancake theory, AFAIK, is kind of questionable, because the 47 core columns supported the gravity loads, the outside bit the lateral loads. Right now the surmise, I believe, is that the outer walls pulled inward upon heating and weakening, initiating the collapses - but the outer walls only supported dynamic loads, not gravitational - so the collapse had to be initiated by failure of the core columns... it's a tangled mess.

Aluminum cladding is still standing there for a second, IMO. Given that nothing was supporting it once the main structure was down, it falls like tin soldiers - makes sense.

[FogerRox]

12. ah-ha

the 47 core columns supported the gravity loads, the outside bit the lateral loads.

Right, that makes sense. And I am liking your idea that what I am seeing, is the "facade". Which seems to "wave" in the breeze.

And collatterally, I just came to understand the bigger collapse issue better. If you want the tower to fall, the core stuructual integrity must be breached.

Thanks.

Roger.