why I don't buy the 9/11 conspiracy theories

[ButterflyBlood]

It's pretty simple. In order to believe them you have to believe that:

1-The same idiots who turned Iraq into the biggest quagmire and foreign policy disaster the US has ever seen with some of the worst war management ever are somehow capable of pulling off something on the scale of 9/11 perfectly and
2-These same idiots who aren't able to keep documents about misleading the public about Iraq secret, or hell, not even a congressman's IM messages, are somehow able to keep this totally secret and absolutely no one leaks it despite the massive number of people required to be involved.

Basically, anyone who believes them is giving this batch of morons way way more credit than they deserve.

[pauldp]

1. I wonder if Halliburton thinks they are morons? n/t

[zforce]

2. Really not that good of reasons,

especially when not knowing the agenda of these so called "fools".

Personally, it is my inference, the war in Iraq was designed to be a quagmire/disaster.

Supporting my inference is the fact that GWB and associates knew for a FACT beyond all doubt, Saddam did not have WMD's, yet they still chose this WMD rationale for their war, in other words, they went in knowing no WMDs will be found.

Now, if they didn't want to be "busted" out, they would of at least found another credible rationale for the war or they would have just as easily planted WMD's in Iraq, and then that would have been the end of that.

Instead, we have what seems to be a purposeful folly that has led most of the world to believe, or rather I should say "not believe" what America says.

Personally, my theory is this all part of the NWO thingy..

for the war in Iraq and 911 are tools designed by the Globalist elite to delibertly destroy first the credibility then the soverneigty of the United States and other strong western nationalistic countries (Brittain, Australia, etc.....).

Basically, the US is playing the role of a "Bad Cop" while the Globalists are playing the role of "Good Cop", and when America Steps its bounds and becomes the Pariah Cop vis a vis the deception unearthed around 911(and maybe war in Iran), the Good Cop will come to the rescue saving the world from America, the corrupt pariah.

On top of that, The Globalists will then "attain" all that America has gained in the world through its Bad Cop Role(Middle East bases etc..), but the difference is the globalists will be received with open arms/saviors, instead of "their" own "road-side bombs and contempt"

In more words, its all part of their hegelian NWO plan.

[ButterflyBlood]

13. Did you know that the Clinton admin planned to

Dissolve all state governments, and replace the country with 8 zones all of which would be governed by the UN? And confiscate all guns from citizens? I know this because it's what the Militia of Montana said!

:eyes:

These type of theories are about as plausible as the type of nonsense above the right wing nuts were spewing during Clinton.

[mogster]

3. You assume that

1. They don't earn greatly from having a quagmire in Iraq and planned it that way
2. They don't earn greatly from the confusion all the questions and doubt create. Ever heard about FUD? It's the bread and butter of fascism.
Besides, you're wrong. They're not keeping it totally secret and there are people leaking about it.

But, you know, everyone voicing a different opinion is immediately branded a 'conspiracy theorist', which removes every credibility of what they have to tell.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. Right, it'll be much easier to exploit oil from Iraq in a civil war

That's why they try to destabalize counties like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait too. And the ass kicking and possible loss of the House and Senate in November because of the quagmire is also part of their plan too I guess.

And yes, somehow knowing that a Republican congressman has a thing for little boys benefits them too.

[mogster]

24. Well, to stay in power

They need wars. You agree that if there were peace in Iraq in 2004, Bush would never have had the credibility he needed from the 'don't change presidents during war time'-myth to steal the election? Besides; has the war action in Iraq hampered Halliburton's income in any way? The exploitation of Iraqi oil seems to go very well, and in addition, the companies in question has earned both economically and structurally from the fray.

Needless to say, it's in the documents describing the overall doctrine from PNAC; wars in multiple theater's.

What has little boys being fucked by Repub leaders to do with this? Keep your discussion straight if you want to be taken seriously.

[slaveplanet]

4. The whole plans was to let the situation

disintegrate and breakdown so it can be partitioned into 3 separate regions.

They even put this out in public in their policy papers. There is also a similar plan for Iran with even more regions (9 I think).


But by all means, go on believing it's all incompetence, if it brings you a warm fuzzy feeling.

[reprehensor]

5. Well...

1-Iran was targeted for destabilization, not order, nor "democracy". "Mission Accomplished". Same scheduled for Iran.

2-These same idiots are one Supreme Court Justice away from a Totalitarian dictatorship.

[Ezlivin]

6. 9/11 is a conspiracy

Regardless of who you blame, it took a conspiracy to bring about the events. Someone conspired with someone else to plan and execute 9/11.

And those of us who believe in alternate theories concerning 9/11 recognize that the use of "conspiracy theory/theorists" is just another attempt at smearing.

[seemslikeadream]

7. quagmire is what they wanted

we're there, end of story, we will be there for a long long time, they got want they wanted, they knew exactly what they were doing. Halliburton = Cheney

Do you really think they care about what we think of them?

[ButterflyBlood]

8. OK, why?

I'm sure exploiting oil from Iraq will be much easier under a stable puppet government than during a civil war. And I'm sure they're really looking forward to the ass-kicking the GOP's going to get in November due to this.

[seemslikeadream]

16. endless war endless terror

Until the philosophy,
Which holds one race superior
And another inferior,
Is finally and permanently
Discredited and abandoned,
Everywhere is war.

WAR

Until there is no longer first class
Or second class citizens of any nation.
Until the color of a man's skin,
Is of no more significance than
The color of his eyes,
I've got to say "war".

WAR

That until the basic human rights,
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to race,
I'll say "war"

Until that day the dream of lasting peace,
World-citizenship and the rule of
International morality will remain
Just a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never obtained.
And everywhere is war.

Until the ignoble and unhappy regime
Which holds all of us through,
Child-abuse, yeah, child-abuse yeah,
Sub-human bondage has been toppled,
Utterly destroyed,
Everywhere is war.

War in the east,
War in the west,
War up north,
War down south,
There is war,
And the rumors of war.

Until that day,
the african continent will know no peace
There is no continent,
Which will know peace.

Children, children.

Fight!

We find it necessary.
We know we will win.
We have confidence in the victory
Of good over evil
Of good over evil

Fight the real enemy!



Spirits In The Material World Lyrics

There is no political solution
To our troubled evolution
Have no faith in constitution
There is no bloody revolution

We are spirits in the material world
(Are spirits in the material world
Are spirits in the material world
Are spirits in the material world)

Our socalled leaders speak
With words they try to jail you
The subjugate the meek
But it's the rhetoric of failure

We are spirits in the material world
(Are spirits in the material world
Are spirits in the material world
Are spirits in the material world)

Where does the answer lie?
Living from day to day
If it's something we can't buy
There must be another way

We are spirits in the material world
(Are spirits in the material world)

(Are spirits in the material world...)

The Police

[ButterflyBlood]

17. wow, The Police wrote a song! That sure rebukes my point

Bush's miserable ratings now and the thumping the GOP is going to get over Iraq is not a benefit to them. It is common sense.

[slaveplanet]

18. Right before the Gulf war 1

Saddam was overpumping Iraqi fields, He was told to knock it off, or else.

Right before Gulf War 2 Saddam was again overpumping Iraqi fields, He was told to knock it off, or else.

What happened both times?

You're assuming the goal is to go in and exploit the oil , that is what they are doing by keeping it in the ground and controlling the tap.
The whole goal was to get their grubby little hand on the tap, and weaken any chance of a cohesive nationalized government, same goes for Iran.

[frylock]

19. do you even know what the price per barrel was pre-iraq?

it's not about production. Supply and demand. Mission accomplished.

[JuniperLea]

23. They don't need Iraq's oil

They have emptied the American treasury AND have mortgaged the country to the rafters. There isn't enough oil in Iraq to match that.

[rman]

25. Iraq is on the doorstep of the Caspian Basin, Iran, Saudi Arabia

Much of the remaining oil and natural gas is there.

That's why the Bush gang has no exit strategy, and why they are building military bases in Iraq - clearly they have no intention to leave any time soon. In fact several members of the gang have stated the war in the middle east will be a long one.

And of course money alone is no good if it can't be exchanged for useful things such as resources.

[Sinti]

9. They are not morons

You're welcome to believe that, but doing so just enables them. A quick resolution to Iraq would not have been beneficial to their corporate masters.

FWIW, it wasn't their documents that were leaked, those documents came from the UK - "Downing Street Minutes" - and just how much trouble have they gotten into for it? Are there investigations about the lie that is Iraq? You apparently do not realize that there are "leaks" regarding their shutting down of investigations that would have prevented 9/11, and other highly questionable behaviors.

congressman's IM messages - completely unrelated.

Massive number of people required - please explain how a "massive" number of people are "required." From my point of view, it only takes a handful of high level people, and everybody else just doing their job to pull off a false flag operation like this. Show me how I'm wrong.

[ButterflyBlood]

14. This would require:

Links in the airports to cover up the killing of all passengers aboard the planes.
More coverup of the launch of the remote controlled planes (which would take quite awhile since obtaining two 747s and outfitting them to be controlled by remote and keeping it completely secret is not all that easy)
Everyone involved in planting the demolitions in the WTC
Everyone involved in the firing of the cruise missle
Plenty high level in the Air Force to cover up shooting down the 4th plane over Pennsylvania (which by the way would not benefit them in any way whatsoever. How is it that the plan works only if the story is 4 planes are hijacked but one is taken down by passengers before it reaches the destination but not that 3 planes are hijacked and all reach their destination? More reason for my skepticism)

[Sinti]

15. Ah, you assume a lot of things are required that are not

These are straw men - not of your own invention, but straw men nonetheless.

My assumption is that they used a high-level, long-term asset in the ME to recruit real would-be Islamic terrorists. The asset knows it was an inside job, and stood to profit greatly from the event, the hijackers did not. Actual terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into WTC and the Pentagon, and one got crashed into a Pennsylvania field, because the passengers wised up to what was about to happen - god rest their souls.

Flight 93 was not shot down - no need to cover.

Demo of WTC, if it happened, could have been done with 3 guys. It's a 96 on-site man-hour job. Three days, three dudes. Not to mention, bombs or no bombs is meaningless in terms of the false flag op. Terrorists could have planted bombs just as easily as our own guys.

What cruise missile? Are you talking about the Pentagon? Flight 77 hit the Pentagon as per the plan.

I believe it was a false flag operation because:

They said they wanted it. PNAC - a new Pearl Harbor.

They did everything they could to prevent investigations into the upcoming event.Nearly the entire command structure was AWOL from 8:30 to 10:00 on 9/11, the most important time. The only person actually "on duty" was Eberhardt. You can do your own research on this if you care to, there's plenty of info out there.

Their friends - the bin Ladens, Bandar Bush and his wife, Khalid bin Mahfouz (of BCCI), and the Paki ISI chief paid for the operation.

Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your right to see things the way you do, and won't try to force my opinion on you, but if you want to understand why some of us see things the way we do, and you have the time to do so, you should watch Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688

There are extremely disturbing facts associated with 9/11 that have nothing to do with remote controlled planes or cruise missiles.

[frylock]

20. compartmentalization..

the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Next strawman, please.

[leftofthedial]

10. Iraq has gone far better than they could have imagined

for them.

They are not incompetent. They just have different priorities that we don't want to recognize.

[mirandapriestly]

11. Everything that has happened -

The illegal war, the Patriot Act, the rolling back of the constitution, the mindless following from the media and congress has been possible because of this administration's exploitation of 9-11 - so did they just turn competent AFTER 9-11? They have also stolen two election and are about to steal another without any accountability. Anyone who says they are not competent (at achieving their own goals) is not paying attention. Just because you don't like what they are doing doesn't mean they are incompetent, in fact they they are able to pull off some unpopular policies and actions is evidence of just how competent they are.

[Mist]

21. This administration has shredded the constitution and loosened

laws on anything that is the slightest encumbrance for corporations. The tax follies are turning America into a two-class society. The war in Iraq has enriched their corporate friends (masters?) beyond measure. They've been quite successful. It's a mistake to think they're morons. Insane and evil, but not morons. And BTW, I find the official story ("OCT") truly incredible.

[JuniperLea]

22. Iraq is a victory for them! It went off perfectly!

They are getting all the money, right?

If you knew the secret, and you told it, you'd be dead. Simple. Either BushCo would have your head on a platter, or an angry American would.