Loose Change and The American Nazi Party (9/11 conspiracies)

[inthebrain]

Has anyone heard the background on Dylan Avery and what he's sourcing?

1. The 9/11 Conspiracy guys are liars.

Here's how it started.

There was a teenager named Dylan Avery.

According to his own site, when he was 18 he was doing construction work on a bar owned by James "Tony Soprano" Gandolfini. No, I didn't make that up.

Anyway, Avery wanted to be a movie director. At a party he seized the opportunity to buttonhole Gandolfini, and the two had this conversation:


Avery: Mr. Soprano! I'm a huge fan!

Soprano: That's great, kid.

(Glances at bodyguards)

Avery: You know, I want to be a director...

Soprano: Like I give a shit. The deformed kid who cleans my fuckin' gutters wants to be a director. You got an idea for a movie?

Avery: Well, no...

Soprano: Then what the fuck are you comin' up to me talkin' about bein' a director?

Avery: I've always wanted to-

Soprano: Shut up. Listen to me...

(Nods toward bodyguards, who approach from across the room)

Soprano: ...Let me tell you the problem with kids like you. You don't wanna direct. You don't wanna tell stories. You wanna be a director. You wanna walk down red carpets with a fuckin' starlet on your arm. You ain't got nothin' to say to the world. For you, the movies, the work, it's just a means to an end. Limousines and cocaine, right?

Avery: Yes! That sounds great!

Soprano: People like you are a cancer. You're the most dangerous people in the world because you'll do anything for the spotlight. You'd tattoo a Swastika on your head if you thought it would get you a movie deal. The people who make it, the people who deserve to make it, the ones who get respect... they're the ones who got something to say to the world.

Avery: I don't under- Ooomph! My crotch!

(Soprano's bodyguards deliver several vicious blows to Avery's body, then dump him into an alley).

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html


That's just a snippet and the rest can be found by clicking the link. Oh, I almost forgot, the newspaper clippings in the Loose Change bit are from a Neo Nazi rag called the American Free Press. Please remind the folks who try to pass off this theory that they are getting in bed with Nazis.

[leesa]

1. Afraid otf it, aren't you. It's hard to face.

[frylock]

2. they're really out in full force tonight, aren't they?

First that ancient clip of Chomsky, now this. You can smell the fear.

[frylock]

3. getting in bed with nazis now, are we?

How lovely.

[inthebrain]

4. Did you read the link?

Dylan Avery's Newspaper sourcings are from the American Free Press. He's dissemenating Nazi Propaganda.

[frylock]

5. so what does that have to with the movement?!

Loose Change is one poorly researched movie that apparently sourced screeners from an SWP website. Dylan Avery doesn't speak for the movement. Try watching Press for Truth or 911 Mysteries. You may also want to exercise some restraint when pondering whether to paint a group of people as Nazis because they don't believe the BS official version of what transpired that day.

[inthebrain]

6. I should ponder restraint in regards to loose change

Despite the fact that I've just proven they are what they are?


NAZIS!!!!

[frylock]

8. i quote..

"Please remind the folks who try to pass off this theory that they are getting in bed with Nazis." This theory. You have implied that anyone who believes an alternate theory is "in bed with the Nazis."

[inthebrain]

9. I still stand by that

All these conpiracy theories related to 9/11 all link back to Neo Nazis. The SPLC, ADL and Public Eye have all been on top of this stuff like fly on shit. They all have roots in with folks that advance holocaust denials and belive in "The Protocols". The "9/11 Truth Movement" is ripe with them.

Find me one that doesn't have something to do with Silverstein planting bombs in his own buildings and a cabal of Jewish bankers.

When you advance these theories you are getting in bed with Nazis.

[inthebrain]

10. Searching your 9/11 mysteries site

one comes across this little nugget;

"Talk About It, Please

If you are in Southern California, come to see the show. Tell your friends in the area about it. We are creating and producing inexpensive narrowcasting materials -- a clamshell DVD version of Dylan Avery's "Loose Change" and John Kaminski's spectacular booklet, "The Day America Died." Get a few and pass them to mainstreamers. Use a little bit of your time and wallet to draw the rest of America in. "

http://www.911weknow.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=28

How interesting.

They support Dylan Avery's film and recommend it. Yet, I'm going too far when I claim these folks are in bed with Nazis?

[mogster]

49. You're right

You're going too far.

[moodforaday]

11. Do the Neocons pay well, or is it just a hobby of yours?

You realize of course that you're doing the Neocons' job for them. I guess it's a free country, or used to be anyway.

So you have a thing about Dylan Avery. It's your problem. Dylan Avery is not 9-11 Truth movement, and the movement is not about him.

Yes, there are hard-line rightwingers (with whom I personally want nothing to do) questioning the official conspiracy theory. There is an equal number of hard-line lefties there, as well as centrists and libertarians. That alone should tell you something if only you listened.

The 9-11 movement basically says this: "The official account of 9-11 is substantially false." Which part of this statement do you disagree with?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frylock]

12. that is the biggest load of shit you've posted yet..

fuck that. We're done, son.

[inthebrain]

30. Obviously you can't dispute the facts

I'm fine with it if you choose to run off.

I've already proven that one of your sources promote Dylan Avery's project.

At least you know when to give up.

[AZCat]

7. Perhaps the reverse could also be applied?

That those who don't believe a poster's pet conspiracy theory about September 11th might not be Bush supporters?

[frylock]

14. i'm really trying to understand why folks like you even come here..

if shit like this is such an insult to your intelligence, then why even bother to post here? Do you honestly believe you're going to change someone's opinion? Why not just move on?

[Nozebro]

28. Maybe to practice their skills in advocacy?

Most good advocates will take any position their patron wants them to.

[LARED]

37. That's not it

We are all brainwashed sheep that have no critical thought process remaining. We all pray to St George (because we are told to, not because we want to) and the mass media does this to us without our knowledge.

Or

we have a genuine viewpoint.

[Nozebro]

38. You come here because you have a "viewpoint"? Kindly explain.

nt

[LARED]

47. My viewpoint?

Sure, Truth matters. Facts matter. Evidence matters.

Most 9/11 CT's are bad science and worse logic.

[Nozebro]

54. Agreed. Facts & Evidence DO matter to 9/11 TRUTH Seekers, but

advocates/defenders of the boosh 9/11 Conspiracy Theory -- you know, those CT'ers that try to get people to believe a caveman did 9/11 -- could care less about facts and evidence.

"Most 9/11 CT's are bad science and worse logic." Since you're such an ardent CT'er, I'm surprised you'd be so public in your confessional, but your self-label is right on the money, IMO.

[LARED]

58. I've got to tell you, I'm quite impressed with your

ability to use logic. Very impressive.

Your attempt to redefine the meaning of CT is such a pervasive contention, I'm just going to let you declare victory.

[AZCat]

31. I don't really see how your response...

is connected to my post. Care to clarify?

[Nozebro]

32. Are you trying to bait him/her into saying something u can use to get them

banned from DU? Everyone else here knows exactly what the poster meant. I'm surprised you don't.

[AZCat]

33. Then perhaps you can explain.

Although pardon me if I take it with a grain of salt - I'm not big on trusting people that groundlessly accuse me of childish tactics.

[Nozebro]

36. Thanks in advance for NOT trying to get anyone here banned.

Trying to get someone banned IS a childish tactic, but you haven't been accused of doing THAT. I merely asked a question. I'll take your response with a BOX of salt.

Cheers.

[AZCat]

40. Whatever.

I can see that you have no interest in explaining what you thought the poster meant.

[Nozebro]

41. Right now, the concern is hoping no one tries to get anyone here banned.

Obviously, you haven't found it convenient to give any assurance that you won't try to bait a 9/11 Truth Seeker into saying something that you can then use to try and get that person banned. As you well know, that has been a practice of some advocates of the boosh 9/11 conspiracy theory (CT'ers).

[AZCat]

46. No.

I don't know that it has been (as you allege) a practice of some advocates of what you mislabel as the "boosh 9/11 conspiracy theory".

It sounds like you have some concerns that need to be addressed. You can contact either Lithos or undergroundrailroad (the moderators of this forum) with your questions if you wish.

[Nozebro]

55. Yes. NOW you've been told twice. Pay attention.

nt

[AZCat]

57. Am I supposed to accept your claim with no supporting evidence?

That would be ridiculous. Asserting something does not make it so.

[frylock]

42. you've stated that you don't believe "pet conspiracy theories"..

I'm not new to this forum. I know what your views are. You don't subscribe to any alternate theories. Why subject yourself to abuse by coming here? Is that question not addressing your post?

[AZCat]

45. I don't generally accept the conspiracy theories presented, that is true.

But your reply did not address my question, hence my confusion. Whether or not I am subjected to abuse by posting here is not the issue - it is rather whether or not you (and others) are willing to accept that those of us who are not supporters of pet (or alternate) conspiracy theories might not be supporters of Bush&Co, based on your rejection of the same sort of logic regarding the relationship between anti-semitism, Dylan Avery and the rest of the 9/11 conspiracy theory proponents.

[frylock]

51. i have never stated nor implied that if you (or others) believe..

the Official account that you are supporters of bush. That's not my style.

[AZCat]

52. It was more of a general question.

I apologize if I wasn't very clear. I don't like it when anyone paints with a broad brush, regardless what side of a discussion they are on. I appreciate those who don't engage in this - thank you.

[Nozebro]

56. We don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. We KNOW it wasn't. It was a

classic False Flag operation. YOU and YOURS are the only CT'ers here. Why would someone that supports such an obviously bogus conspiracy theory (i.e. that OBL & Co. plotted, planned & carried out an attack that the entire U.S. defense system was unable to cope with) want to come here in the first place? Wouldn't rense dot com be a more appropriate place to peddle such an outlandish conspiracy theory?

[AZCat]

59. You can attempt to redefine the terminology all you want...

but that still doesn't change the facts, and asserting (in caps, no less) that you "know" something doesn't change them either.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AZCat]

62. You display an incredible narcissism.

Do you really think you are important enough for the government to spend resources fighting you, that your posts are so illuminating that I (and others) spend our days here trying to distract you from discovering the secrets of 9/11 (hidden in plain sight, mind you)?

[Nozebro]

63. Your facts are wrong. Was that intentional? Disinfo?

nt

[AZCat]

64. I have no idea what "facts" you are referring to.

I'm going to give you some advice. You seem worried about posters being banned (I imagine this includes yourself). One way to avoid this is to not accuse other posters of posting "disinfo" or of being secret government agents, especially if you have absolutely no evidence of such.

[vincent_vega_lives]

53. I for one post here because I abhor

intellectual malfeasance, and feel the need to combat it when I see it.

In other words It makes me feel smart. :evilgrin:

[inthebrain]

15. Loose Change and Nazis. (9/11 conspiracies)

Has anyone heard that background on Dylan Avery and what he's sourcing?

1. The 9/11 Conspiracy guys are liars.

Here's how it started.

There was a teenager named Dylan Avery.

According to his own site, when he was 18 he was doing construction work on a bar owned by James "Tony Soprano" Gandolfini. No, I didn't make that up.

Anyway, Avery wanted to be a movie director. At a party he seized the opportunity to buttonhole Gandolfini, and the two had this conversation:


Avery: Mr. Soprano! I'm a huge fan!

Soprano: That's great, kid.

(Glances at bodyguards)

Avery: You know, I want to be a director...

Soprano: Like I give a shit. The deformed kid who cleans my fuckin' gutters wants to be a director. You got an idea for a movie?

Avery: Well, no...

Soprano: Then what the fuck are you comin' up to me talkin' about bein' a director?

Avery: I've always wanted to-

Soprano: Shut up. Listen to me...

(Nods toward bodyguards, who approach from across the room)

Soprano: ...Let me tell you the problem with kids like you. You don't wanna direct. You don't wanna tell stories. You wanna be a director. You wanna walk down red carpets with a fuckin' starlet on your arm. You ain't got nothin' to say to the world. For you, the movies, the work, it's just a means to an end. Limousines and cocaine, right?

Avery: Yes! That sounds great!

Soprano: People like you are a cancer. You're the most dangerous people in the world because you'll do anything for the spotlight. You'd tattoo a Swastika on your head if you thought it would get you a movie deal. The people who make it, the people who deserve to make it, the ones who get respect... they're the ones who got something to say to the world.

Avery: I don't under- Ooomph! My crotch!

(Soprano's bodyguards deliver several vicious blows to Avery's body, then dump him into an alley).

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html


That's just a snippet and the rest can be found by clicking the link. Oh, I almost forgot, the newspaper clippings in the Loose Change bit are from a Neo Nazi rag called the American Free Press. Please remind the folks who try to pass off this theory that they are getting in bed with Nazis.

[inthebrain]

16. I figure I'd give this a shameless lil bump

I'm the type of guy who says the puddin is delicious

[razors edge]

17. So by virture

of association, anyone who questions the official conspiracy theory is a Nazi sympathizer?

[rman]

23. Now why is it that this kind of logic sounds so familiar?

Could it be we've heard it before?
Hmm...

[mirandapriestly]

21. you got the "shameless" part right.eom

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. Boy does that story smells

of bullshit.

Sorry, my family knows the people who play on the Sopranos. I've never heard nothing but nice things about them.

These guys are too smart to risk the liability suit over some jerk.

[petgoat]

19. pointlesswasteoftime is right! nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rman]

22. Right, like half of the US business elite and the 9/11 perps are not in bed with the Nazis

If OCT-ers feel they have to come up with stories like presented in this OP, they must be pretty desperate.

[moodforaday]

24. You, sir,

are a CONSPIRACY theorist! How does it feel? Do you want to talk about it?

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

25. why would dylan avery's background be relevant to anything?

this movement would exist w/o him or loose change simply because there are so many w/ a basic understanding of physics and two eyes..

unless of course you're so insecure w/ your own judgment that you need others to validate things for you..

[inthebrain]

26. You sure?

Dylan Avery sources Neo Nazis rags and incorporates it into the conspiracy theory. Every single "9/11 Truth" group links back to Dylan Avery or smaelessly supports him. All the sourcing goes back to the "American Free Press", which is very relevant.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

27. obviously you didn't read or comprehend my response.

good luck

[inthebrain]

29. Certainly, comprehension seems to be the problem here

On this thread I've proven that Dylan Avery's newpaper sources are from the American Free Press.

I've also proven that other "9/11 truthers" groups shamelessly promote Avery's film and his sourcings.

So I am in agreement with you.

Comprehension is the problem..............

[John Q. Citizen]

34. I bought a Volkswagon. Got a problem with that? n/t

[inthebrain]

35. What are you trying to say?

What does buying a volkswagon have to do with a conspiracy theory that has it's basis in anti semitism?

That's the crux of what Dylan Avery is proposing and other 9/11 truth groups like to pick from the same barrel. They are all based on typical anti semitic arche types ie; Silverstein as the conniving greedy Jew.

I'm surpirsed not one person has displayed any outrage over all of this. I got one guy claiming he thinks Avery is a shithead and he refers me to a another 9/11 Truth website which promotes..................DYLAN AVERY!!!!!!

Gimme a break.

You folks are all totally duped and the folks doing the duping are laughing at you.

[John Q. Citizen]

39. So do you believe 9/11 was an inside job?

The volkswagen was developed by the Nazis.

I have a volkswagon,

Therby, using your logic.....

It's false logic, see?

Or here some more false logic.

Arabs are a semetic people. The Government conspiracy theory blames Arabs for 9/11. Therefore anyone who promotes that conspiracy theory is anti-semetic.

Isn't that stupid?

Please take a look in mirror and then get back to me....

[inthebrain]

65. The government theory does not blame arabs

It blames Al Queda.
Al Queda does not represent all arabs.


You wanna talk to me about false logic?

You're in no position to lecture me on logic. I wonder if you really think that it was the fols at Volkswagon feeding Dylan Avery his information.

Talk about false logic!!!!! Apparantly you never looked up the definiton for "straw man".

Your conspiracy theory is a reinvention of the "protocols". It was cooked up by Nazis and Dylan Avery Sources the American Free Press in his film. Apparantly you have zilcho comprehension of what it means to take info from a first hand source. We're not talking about volkswagons.

We're talking about Nazis.

It's astonishing that you've juxtaposed a car manufacturer with modern day scapegoating perpetrated by Nazis.

Having to explain to you something as simple as "Time" in your scenerio would blow your mind as well. Yet, it sounds like to me you bought a volkswagon for the very reason that Nazis started the company.

[frylock]

44. i don't think you're a shithead..

I'm pretty firm in my beliefs.

[frylock]

43. fuckin nazi

=P

[vincent_vega_lives]

48. I Like this part

Conspiracy buff Phillip Jayhan ambles into Dylan's life, waving around a sweaty wad of money. Jayhan, by the way, says the world is run by a massive satanic cult that enslaves prominent politicians by delivering kidnapped boys for them to molest and then blackmailing them about it later.

Okay, that's probably true. But the point is Jayhan offered to pay for Avery to get his little film off the ground.

:evilgrin:

[vincent_vega_lives]

50. What a fucking asshole

Avery: Ha Ha Ha Ha! Have you seen how small those things are? Like, if I was on a flight, with, you know, at least 50 other people – because that's the smallest number I think was on 9/11* – if I was in the cabin, with 50 other people, and five people – I don't care if they're Muslim or not – stand up with box cutters and say they're gonna hijack the plane, I'm gonna laugh in their face!

How the fuck would he know what these guys had or didnt have? Laugh in their face? After they just slashed the jugular of a 1st class passenger or flight attendant and dump his body in the isle to show they mean buisiness? And after they claimed to have a bomb?

Give me a fucking break.

Flight 93 only reacted after they KNEW that if they didnt act, they WOULD die.

[mirandapriestly]

61. How do you know what they would do?eom

[vincent_vega_lives]

66. Who? (n/t)