NJ EMT says workers told WTC7 was going to be "pulled"!

[Contrite]

*** A New Jersey Emergency Medical Technician has gone public on how
emergency workers were told that Building 7 was going to be "pulled".
A 20 second demolition countdown was broadcast over emergency workers
radios before its collapse. The ground zero rescue worker who for now
wishes to remain anonymous also witnessed multiple underground support
columns of the WTC towers which were severed before the buildings
imploded.

http://www.innworldreport.net/archives/fromthestudio/index.html

[Bolo Boffin]

1. This is the biggest buncha bullshit yet.

What was this guy's EMT number? New Jersey EMTs aren't authorized to work in New York - why was he there in uniform? How did he go from hiding in a Plexiglas bus stop to helping people in the basement? Why is it only now that we have heard of a "30 foot or so section of the courtyard exlploded straight up into the air," when nearly 10,000 people escaped from the towers that day? The only documented use of the word "pull" on 9/11 was getting people out of the way of the soon-to-be-collapsing building. There are no other witnesses who say anything about a 20-second countdown before WTC 7 fell. EMTs aren't fined for ruined uniforms - they buy their own.

Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie after lie. This "eyewitness" testimony is a fraudulent bundle of crap. Do over.

[greyl]

2. How can people so readily believe this obvious bullshit?

Of course, asshole Dylan Avery is accepting it at face value. Maybe he's the one who wrote it.
Have they ruled out that it could be fabricated by an immature person who is only trying to egg them on?

I don't know what to say, I'm not sure where I stand, and I don't know what to think anymore... not about 9/11, but society in general.

I was a NJ EMT for 6 years. I was in NY at the WTC before, during, and after the collapse. I ran from the falling towers. I hid behind a plexi-glass bus stop panel, as if that would have helped me if anything large came hurtling in that direction. My lungs are full of dust and I can barely breathe without holding back a cough and the ever-present faint taste of blood in the back of my throat. I wake up gasping for air. Those towers fell, and I was there. I don't know why the "official story" of what happened isn't questioned more than it is. Nobody listens to the people who KNOW. The 9/11 commission was made up of puppeteers, and the tesimony was given by the puppets. It's so obvious. It was a failure. If the things I, and hundreds of other people saw, felt, and heard didn't make it into that attrocious failure called the 9/11 Commission Report, then there is no other con clusion than accepting the fact that the whole thing was a whitewash.

Mark... listen to me. There were explosions. There were flashes. There was molten metal running down the I-beams of the basement levels like lava flows. I've never seen anything like it. Yes, planes hit the buildings- anybody who says otherwise is a moron. But the explosions- the rapid, symmetrical, sequential explosions- they happened. We were in the basement, helping a man who had been struck by pieces of flying concrete and rebar, and there was one of the huge steel and concrete support pillars with an 8 foot section blown out of the center of it. We looked around and there were other support columns that were the same. We spoke about it right then and there... we were discussing as we were carrying this man, saying "how could someone have rigged all these explosives?". That sort of thing does not happen from an airplane hitting the building 70, 80 stories up. We stood outside listening to the explosions. One after the other, every minute or so. At one point, about 10 minutes before the first collapse, a 30 foot or so section of the courtyard exlploded straight up into the air. Just before the collapses, a series of deep, below ground explosions, then numerous explosions in the buildings upper floors. Then we ran. We felt the same deep explosions before the second collapse. This was not just the planes. THE BUILDINGS WERE RIGGED. There is no question about it. Hundreds of people know this, Mark. People were told, the crowds of people were TOLD over bullhorns, that building 7 was going to be pulled (and YES that is the term they used). There was a 20 second countdown over the radios, there were bright flashes up and down the sides of building 7, you could see them through the windows...and it collapsed. We all knew it was intentionally pulled... they told us! There was no question about it until a day or so later when the news was reporting that it had collapsed due to fire. We kept wondering when they were going to correct the news reports. Eventually, it became "official story".

(more after the break..)

I tried to explain that wasn't what happened. I kept telling people there were explosions. I kept explaining what I saw, and wrote to the newspapers, the networks, and the government about what I saw. I called to speak to the FDNY, and NYPD. I told them what I knew and wanted know why the news reports were wrong. I wasn't told I was wrong. I wasn't even given a different explaination. I was just told to "shut up", "forget about it", or "let it go, for my own good". I told my EMT Coordinator In Charge what we saw. The four of us from my squad who went were first congratulated for responding and doing such a good job, and later, two of us (the two that refused to "let it go") were brought up on charges of disorderly conduct, fired, and fined for the uniforms and equipment we used on 9/11 because they were ruined. The other two (who are women, one a mother of two, the other a mother of 3) now ref use to admit they were even there, even to us! They just won't speak about it. The four of us were heroes. Two of us were harrassed and fired, and the other two have to deny ever being there.

There is no doubt in my mind what happened in New York on 9/11. Yes, some of the conspiracy theories are far fetched. A few are even rediculous. But MOST of them, hold much more validity than the "official story". The government has one theory, and it is very weak, at best. Loose Change may be questionable, but that's what it is doing... providing theories and asking questions. Some of those questions get answered, others come up. THAT is why there is a 2nd Edition and a future final cut. Yes, the truth must be updated, of course it does. To say it doesn't is silly. What do you think an investigation is? You formulate a theory, ask questions, and get answers. When you come across new information or rule out false information, you update your theory. Why do you ridicule that concept? Why do you take so much pride in claiming "I didn't know the truth needed a 2n d Edition"? That's like your main motto and it's the weakest thing I've ever heard. Would it make more sense to you to write a story, or make a documentary, and NOT update it if you found new information? Would you want today's school children learning out of a 1977 1st Edition History textbook? Would you criticize an updated edition for them to learn out of? What about following editions? Of course not. My point is this: Loose Change may not be 100% accurate or complete, but it offers more plausible explanations, no matter how diabolical, than the 9/11 commission report fiasco.

In case you are wondering, no. I'm not going to give you my full name or what city I worked for. I had enough trouble having it dragged through local newspapers for two years. I don't want to lose another job. I don't want you unfoundedly slandering my name all over the net like you do with Dylan, Jason, and whoever else offers a point of view other than yours. I'm not giving you my name, so do as you wish with what I've told you. Just remember something. It's very easy to deny something, and even easier to "debunk" it with a simpler story, and simpler still to present that information to millions of people who not only have heard it as truth before, but WANT to believe it. It is much harder to piece together a series of events that makes much more sense, provides a motive, a means, and more capable suspects, and harder yet to present that information to millions of people who not only DON'T want it to be true, but have already heard a much happier story that they would rather believe.

Trust me, I'd much rather believe the official story. I'd also rather believe that Columbus discovered America and DIDN'T torture and murder the natives he encountered on the way here. But history had a 2nd Edition to that story. I can't wait for the Final Cut.

(Interesting spelling of ridiculous in the full letter, eh willbill?)

[MervinFerd]

9. Naah! "Dustification Beams" are a bigger pile. But this one is very large.

Now, if this fellow also witnessed Dustification Beams from Space cutting WTC7 beams---that would be a really large pile of it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

79. NJ EMT workers were across the river helping the injured. It is possible. The article does not say

he was in NY.

[greyl]

81. No. The prankster claims he was in NY after the first plane, and before the 2nd.

You can find his email here, if you'd like to ask her/him yourself.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

82. Thanks. Actually right now I'm searching to see if there were EMTs from Jersey helping out.

Haven't found anything yet, which doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

There were ferries going back and forth that day and it's possible that EMT workers might have crossed the river to help. That is only supposition though. I don't think they could have gotten into Manhattan any other way that day. The bridges and tunnels were in chaos.

[greyl]

83. He says they drove his friend's truck and parked at Burger King

6 blocks from WTC.
The guy is pulling a prank.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

84. That does sound like BS. eom

[greyl]

3. Why do you believe this was written by an NJ EMT? nt

[Contrite]

27. It wasn't. It was written by/reported on a news blog. n/t

[HamdenRice]

4. The Port Authority ...

People residing in dorm rooms in the midwest might not realize this, but the WTC was owned and under the jurisdiction of the Port Authority -- more properly known as the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, essentially a joint venture of the two states. The New Jersey PATH train terminated at the WTC. Both states had jurisdiction over the WTC.

Moreover, because of the scale of the disaster, emergency workers from all over the tri-state area (again for midwesterners, the tri-state area means New York, New Jersey and Connecticut), came to the site.

I personally know a Long Island (ie outside NYC) volunteer fireman who was at the site. That day, emergency workers from as far away as Pennsylvania and Delaware came to help.

So the idea that there were Jersey rescue workers were first responders is absolutely credible.

BTW, in the New York Magazine article of some months back, the reporter, who was at the site on 9/11, said that he was told that WTC 7 was going to come down. A little while later he was shocked when it did.

[greyl]

5. brilliant

firecoins: on 9/11 I was a New York State EMT and I can tell you the story in post 1 was an absolute fraud. No doubt about it.

No ambulances from Jersey were dispatched after the first plane hit. They would not have been in uniform in Manhattan before the attack. Any NJ units who showed up did so on their own accord and probably did not get their until after the 2nd plane hit. If they had a uniform on it means they were on call in Jersey and probably would be fired for leaving their post.

No NJ units would have been located in the basement areas of the WTC. They would have been on the West Side Highway or in the vicinity of Canal Street where the Holland Tunnel comes out. They would not have been in a position to molten steel pouring into the basement or symetrical explosions.

Anyone employed as EMT would simply be fired. No need to be drawing up charges unless they were apart of a volunteer agency in which case they can't be fired. They can only get kicked out.

firecoins: point by point debunking by NY EMT from 1996 to 2002 and 2007 NY EMT student.

Quote:
I was a NJ EMT for 6 years.

What was his NJ EMT #?

Quote:
I was in NY at the WTC before, during, and after the collapse.

Jersey EMTs are not authorized to work in NYS

Quote:
I ran from the falling towers. I hid behind a plexi-glass bus stop panel, as if that would have helped me if anything large came hurtling in that direction.

Later he claims we was with a patient in the basement but here he seems to be alone. He also claimed to be 3 other EMTs. Where were they? Did they have an ambulance?

Quote:
My lungs are full of dust and I can barely breathe without holding back a cough and the ever-present faint taste of blood in the back of my throat. I wake up gasping for air.

Most of the people with long term problems were in the clean up effort at Ground Zero for weeks.

Quote:
Those towers fell, and I was there. I don't know why the "official story" of what happened isn't questioned more than it is. Nobody listens to the people who KNOW.

Alot of the people who know support the official theory or a variation of it. None claim an inside job.

Quote:
The 9/11 commission was made up of puppeteers, and the tesimony was given by the puppets. It's so obvious. It was a failure.

It was a failure or a cover up. If it was a cover up its seems to be pretty damn good. Politicans cover their ass I am sure that was done but that isn't an inside job.

Quote:
If the things I, and hundreds of other people saw, felt, and heard didn't make it into that attrocious failure called the 9/11 Commission Report, then there is no other con clusion than accepting the fact that the whole thing was a whitewash.

At least 10,000 people are estimated to have escaped the twin towers not including those in the immediate area. Many do not claim their were explosives.

Quote:
Mark... listen to me. There were explosions. There were flashes. There was molten metal running down the I-beams of the basement levels like lava flows.

Planes caused explosions, Other thing don't take well to fire. Explosions don't equal bombs. Steel was not the only metal. Others had a much lower melting point. Few if any described it like lava.

Quote:
Yes, planes hit the buildings- anybody who says otherwise is a moron.

Apparently they hit silently.

Quote:
But the explosions- the rapid, symmetrical, sequential explosions- they happened.

explosions happaned. bombs didn't. No one but CTists describe them as symetrical and I didn't know explosions happend out of order.

Quote:
We were in the basement, helping a man who had been struck by pieces of flying concrete and rebar, and there was one of the huge steel and concrete support pillars with an 8 foot section blown out of the center of it. We looked around and there were other support columns that were the same.

Earlier he was alone, hiding in a plexiglass bus stop. Now he is with other people helping people in the basement.

Quote:
We spoke about it right then and there... we were discussing as we were carrying this man, saying "how could someone have rigged all these explosives?". That sort of thing does not happen from an airplane hitting the building 70, 80 stories up. We stood outside listening to the explosions. One after the other, every minute or so.

So as the building is exploding and collpasing they stop to have a conversation.

Quote:
At one point, about 10 minutes before the first collapse, a 30 foot or so section of the courtyard exlploded straight up into the air. Just before the collapses, a series of deep, below ground explosions, then numerous explosions in the buildings upper floors. Then we ran. We felt the same deep explosions before the second collapse. This was not just the planes. THE BUILDINGS WERE RIGGED. There is no question about it.

Again, he is just standing around talking about it but at the same time helping an injured person.

Quote:
Hundreds of people know this, Mark. People were told, the crowds of people were TOLD over bullhorns, that building 7 was going to be pulled (and YES that is the term they used).

I had my scanner on. The police did not use the term pull. Firefighters used it to pull out of the building.

Quote:
There was a 20 second countdown over the radios, there were bright flashes up and down the sides of building 7, you could see them through the windows...and it collapsed.

wrong again. I had my scanner on. No such countdown took place.

Quote:
I tried to explain that wasn't what happened. I kept telling people there were explosions. I kept explaining what I saw, and wrote to the newspapers, the networks, and the government about what I saw. I called to speak to the FDNY, and NYPD. I told them what I knew and wanted know why the news reports were wrong. I wasn't told I was wrong. I wasn't even given a different explaination. I was just told to "shut up", "forget about it", or "let it go, for my own good". I told my EMT Coordinator In Charge what we saw.

The news media put on hundred of people who escaped from the buildings who saw explosions and thought there were bombs initially. They concluded it was from the planes instead. Its called evaluating the facts after one has stopped running for their lives.

Quote:
The four of us from my squad who went were first congratulated for responding and doing such a good job, and later, two of us (the two that refused to "let it go") were brought up on charges of disorderly conduct, fired, and fined for the uniforms and equipment we used on 9/11 because they were ruined.

EMTs buy their own uniforms and would not be fined for them. I doubt EMTs would be charged for used equipment.

Quote:
The other two (who are women, one a mother of two, the other a mother of 3) now ref use to admit they were even there, even to usx

Probably don't want to be associated with liars.

Quote:
Yes, some of the conspiracy theories are far fetched. A few are even rediculous. But MOST of them, hold much more validity than the "official story".

Not based on the evidence.

Quote:
The government has one theory, and it is very weak, at best.

The only one with actual evidence/

Quote:
Loose Change may be questionable, but that's what it is doing... providing theories and asking questionsx

delusional theories and blaming Bush is not a theory.

Quote:
Some of those questions get answered, others come up. THAT is why there is a 2nd Edition and a future final cut. Yes, the truth must be updated, of course it does.

Loose Change had plenty of time to get the facts right the first time through.

Quote:
To say it doesn't is silly. What do you think an investigation is? You formulate a theory, ask questions, and get answers. When you come across new information or rule out false information, you update your theory. Why do you ridicule that concept? Why do you take so much pride in claiming "I didn't know the truth needed a 2n d Edition"? That's like your main motto and it's the weakest thing I've ever heard. Would it make more sense to you to write a story, or make a documentary, and NOT update it if you found new information? Would you want today's school children learning out of a 1977 1st Edition History textbook? Would you criticize an updated edition for them to learn out of? What about following editions? Of course not. My point is this: Loose Change may not be 100% accurate or complete, but it offers more plausible explanations, no matter how diabolical, than the 9/11 commission report fiasco.

9/11 commission is in line with proven facts. Your theories and questions have been debunked

Quote:
In case you are wondering, no. I'm not going to give you my full name or what city I worked for. I had enough trouble having it dragged through local newspapers for two years. I don't want to lose another job. I don't want you unfoundedly slandering my name all over the net like you do with Dylan, Jason, and whoever else offers a point of view other than yours.

Your unwilling to state your name in search for the truth. EMTs make only $10 to $12 an hour. Not much to give up for the truth.

Quote:
Trust me, I'd much rather believe the official story.

I don't trust people who are not willing to give their name.
...
greyl: *firecoins then provides his name and NYS EMT number.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. I find it interesting that firecoins doesn't know the pay scale for an EMT.

Makes me wonder why not.

It makes me wonder why he/she would be considered a reliable source.

[HamdenRice]

7. JCQ, Check this out

From his own post:

"They would not have been in uniform in Manhattan before the attack."

Duh

"Any NJ units who showed up did so on their own accord and probably did not get their until after the 2nd plane hit."

ie, they did show up, and maybe showed up after the first plane but did arrive after the second plane. The OP is about the period between the second plane and the collapse of WTC 7 late in the afternoon.

The rest of the post is just the poster rambling about his own beliefs -- ie if he disagrees with it, it has to be a lie.

[greyl]

10. You claimed it was credible that NJ EMTs were first responders.

Not.

Now, you're mischaracterizing the NY EMT's statements. Just click the JREF link and read the thread.
If you're serious about getting to the bottom of it, why not confront him?
If you want to equally question the veracity of the NJ EMT, PM me for his email address.

[Contrite]

39. Google is your friend

http://www.umdnj.edu/umcweb/marketing_and_communications/publications/umdnj_magazine/hstate/fall01/features/feature02_response.html

NEW JERSEY’S EMS RESPONSE

In a disaster, the "all hands on deck" mentality doesn’t work. Emergency resources need to be organized and deployed efficiently, or chaos can result. "Everyone wants to help. They rush to the site to see what they can do," explains Hamstra. "Though they mean well, they can complicate things and prevent the people who are really trained to help from getting in."

The job of organizing the state’s EMS efforts was coordinated by Hamstra and her staff. Within 15 minutes of the disaster, New Jersey’s EMS response was underway. Communication and chains of command were established by sending EMS managers to ground zero, NYPD headquarters at 1 Police Plaza in New York, the Holland Tunnel, Jersey City and other key areas of the New Jersey waterfront, and additional locations. Hamstra stayed in Newark at the Emergency Operations Center, along with police, fire, FBI, and other agencies.

Ambulances and numerous other rescue vehicles from communities across New Jersey were dispatched to ground zero to provide assistance and transport any injured victims to hospitals. In addition, the state’s two medevac helicopters, NorthSTAR and SouthSTAR, were sent to Teterboro Airport, along with two other helicopters that were similarly equipped to transport the most seriously injured to trauma centers. There they would wait in vain, since the government quickly closed the sky to air traffic.

Rescue efforts were not restricted to ground zero. Thousands of people had evacuated lower Manhattan by ferry, arriving in Jersey City, Hoboken, Weehawken, and Liberty State Park. Some were injured, while others were covered in dust and ash. On the New Jersey waterfront, approximately 20,000 people were seen, triaged, transported to hospitals, and/or decontaminated by UH-EMS and other emergency medical personnel. Decontamination involves spraying people with water from hoses to wash off debris. The majority of these people were the "walking wounded," those who had escaped with injuries that were not life-threatening.

Not only was the New Jersey response quick and efficient, it was also sustained. Many communities rely on volunteer EMTs, firefighters, and other emergency support staff to handle local emergency calls. These volunteers hold jobs; some are students; others are mothers and fathers; all have busy lives. "In some emergency situations, you have a huge response from volunteers the first day, but then it tapers off," explains Hamstra. "Not in this case. People kept coming back, day after day."

The New Jersey team stayed on-site at ground zero until September 22, when New York’s city and state resources took over. By now, days had gone by with no survivors pulled from the wreckage, and "rescue" was starting to become "recovery."

[Bolo Boffin]

42. Excellent. Find one person in this effort who corroborates "Mike."

Otherwise, Mike is a liar.

[Contrite]

46. I think Mike makes it clear no one else wants to speak up. n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

50. How convenient. n/t

[Contrite]

52. Apparently not for him.

He is obviously suffering from being the one with enough courage to continue being so public about it.

[Bolo Boffin]

54. There is no evidence for his suffering except his assertion of such.

He should link to a news story about his suffering, or reveal his name or his EMT number.

Oh, he wants to remain anonymous because he's suffering! Yet he's still willing to get a bunch of DVDs to pass out in public. Riiiiiiiiight.

[Contrite]

58. Passing out DVDs in public is not equivalent to giving your name

rank and serial number. The guy says he has already lost jobs because of this and isn't interested in doing so again. Give him some credit for having the courage to continue speaking out, even if he chooses to do so anonymously.

[Bolo Boffin]

59. No credit, because his story is bullshit from start to finish. n/t

[Contrite]

61. You don't know that, bolo. n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

65. I most certainly do.

There is enough bullshit in that story to fertilize Death Valley.

[greyl]

44. That was after the collapses, not after the first plane crash.

Reading for comprehension is your friend.

[Contrite]

47. Not really.

He said he was there before, during and after collapse. What makes you think that everyone called in was called in after collapse?

As the article I linked states:

"Within 15 minutes of the disaster, New Jersey’s EMS response was underway. Communication and chains of command were established by sending EMS managers to ground zero, NYPD headquarters at 1 Police Plaza in New York, the Holland Tunnel, Jersey City and other key areas of the New Jersey waterfront, and additional locations. Hamstra stayed in Newark at the Emergency Operations Center, along with police, fire, FBI, and other agencies."

[greyl]

63. You're wrong. Ground zero is the term used for the post-collapse site, not

the plane crashes.

Read for comprehension. Pay attention to "ash". The disaster was the collapse.

[Contrite]

68. Interesting term, that, "Ground Zero"

This term can have several meanings. It's the spot under the tower where that bomb exploded, but it can also mean "the aiming point," or "the epicenter," or "the point of origin."

Do you know that is how pros refer to demolition/bomb sites?

From Wikipedia:

Ground zero is the exact location on the ground where any explosion occurs. The term has often been associated with nuclear explosions, but is also used in relation to earthquake epicenter, epidemics and other disasters to mark the point of the most severe damage or destruction. Damage gradually decreases with distance from this point.

The term may also be used to describe the impact point of any exploding bomb. In the case of a bomb which explodes above ground, the term refers to the point on the ground directly below the bomb at the moment of detonation (see hypocenter).

The term was military slang—used at the Trinity site where the weapon tower for the first nuclear weapon was at point 'zero'—and moved into general use very shortly after the end of World War II (see Manhattan Project).

Although the phrase "Ground Zero" may have been used before, the first time it was seen in print was 1946. In an article about the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan, the New York Times read: "The intense heat of the blast started fires as far as 3,500 feet from 'ground zero' (the point on the ground directly under the bomb's explosion in the air)."

**************
And I just found this: a rescue worker who refers to the WTC in the 1993 bombing as "ground zero". Commanding Officer of the NYPD Aviation Unit, Captain William Wilkens, NYPD (retired):

http://www.nycop.com/Stories/Dec_00/World_Trade_Center_Bombing/body_world_trade_center_bombing.html

[firecoins]

71. Payscale

Being that there are dozens of New Jersey EMS agencies, there is no 1 payscale. The average pay of an EMT B is $10/fr to $12/hr in a private agency. Very few EMS agencies pay pasics more than $33,000/ a year. Most suburban and rural areas are served by volunteer agencies where the pay scale in $0 .

1 This NY EMT refuses to ID himself or his agency. 2 of the people he claims responded with him deny the events he describes. He mentions these women have children implying they are being threatened but these women didn't say that. He did.

My name is Brian Marks (www.myspace.com/brianmarks). On 9/11 I was at New City Volunteer Ambulance as dispatched to go to. We were planning on taking over 911 calls in the Bronx so the FDNY could send more of their equipment to ground zero. It never happaned. My old NYS EMT # is 218750. Currently I am getting back into EMS (I quit in 2002) by taking a class at SUNY Rockland Community College.

2. EMS agencies in NJ were dispatched to docks along the Jersey shore in preparation for patients to be transported via boats to New Jersey in order to ease the load off of NYC hospitals. It is weird that any Jersey agency would allow their equipement to go into Manhattan. This is verafiable. on Itunes, 1010 Wins had a podcast with FDNY communications which specifically call for this action.

3. The NJ EMT has problems breathing due to 911 or so he claims. Most people who had medical problems were working on the ground zero site for days or weeks without breathing apparatus. He has made no such claims outside of being their for a few hours.

4. He claims to be in the mall/basement of the Twin Towers treating patients when this place was being evacuated. He was able to have conversation about the bombs while explosions were occurring and while treating a patient. He could tell explosions were symetrical from within the building which is physically impossible. He describes explosions in the Courtyard which only occured in his version of events. He finally ran out and hid behind a bus stop. No mention of his patient or partners.

5. He responed with 3 other people before the collapse. It is assumed they took an ambulance(rig), parked close enough to the twin towers so that they could enter the WTC. There is no mention if the rig got damaged. FDNY and NYPD and various EMS equipment were totalled or partially damaged but not his rig. He later gets fined for his own uniform and used equipment but the rig is never mentioned. Thats weird since most EMTs are required to get their own uniform.


3

[AZCat]

72. Welcome to the DU, firecoins!

It's nice to have another voice of reason posting here.

[greyl]

74. Thanks for accepting the invitation, firecoins. :) nt

[greyl]

8. Show your work.

What agency and what level of EMT are you talking about?

John Q. Citizen"It makes me wonder why he/she would be considered a reliable source."

Are you saying you consider the person who wrote the email cited in the OP, who won't give his name, EMT #, or agency, to be a more reliable source than someone who does?
Additionally, there's no reason to take anyones word for anything if you're a capable researcher.

I can't believe you're taking the alleged NJ EMT's email seriously.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

80. I posted above. The EMT worker didn't have to be in NY. He could have caught

the transmission from across the river. Many people were ferried across the Hudson and treated in NJ.

[greyl]

85. He claims he went to NY after the 1st plane and before the 2nd. nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

87. He would have had to have wings in order to do that. There is still rush hour at the time

the first plane hit, and even at the time the second plane hit. The closest crossing from NJ to the WTC would be the Holland Tunnel which is during normal traffic, once on the NY side, about 5 minutes from the WTC site. You can just imagine the chaos with the tunnel and bridge crossings.

[petgoat]

11. The frantic debunking is amusing.

I see bolo hearing alarm bells, leaping into his boots, pulling up his pants
and sliding down the pole--the first responder from Texas to respond to the
crisis. Twelve minutes. Not bad.

Hey, either the story checks out or it doesn't. He said the countdown was
broadcast on the radio. If so, others would have heard it too. There will
be verification or there won't. What's the rush to judgment? Who's got time?

What surprises me most about the WTC7 story is the rush for the Industrial Risk
Insurers to pay out $861 million--before the FEMA report was in.

You'd think that a number of interesting questions would have held up payout:

Whether the collapse was caused by the fires or by structural damage

Were the insurers of the towers liable for fire or structural damage?

Were the firefighters justified in abandoning the building?

Was the transfer-truss design inherently flawed so the engineers were at fault?

Was the fuel tank system improperly designed, installed, or maintained?

Was the alarm system company negligent in leaving the fire alarms in "TEST" mode
since six a.m., hampering the ability of the firefighters to identify the
location of the fires?

I would think a couple of million dollars investigating these questions might
have been justified.

At the time, IRI was a subsidiary of General Electric, the largest defense contractor
in the world. http://www.insurancenewsnet.com/article.asp?a=top_news&id=30761

It's tempting to speculate that top GE management preferred not to piss off the
federal administration with a lot of pesky questions about sich a piddly-ass matter
as $861 million. GE currently has a market cap of $370 billion, revenues of 161 billion,
and cash of 62 billion.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=GE

I would imagine that some of the people IRI employed as investigators were surprised at
and disappointed in the premature payout.

That IRI has been sold to Swiss Re makes the question of what was their rush to pay out
moot, at least to GE shareholders, I suppose, who otherwise would have been justified in
questioning management about the issue at shareholders' meetings.

The possibility that the conflicting stories about WTC7 have been motivated by the desire
to obscure issues involving financial liability is one I have not seen discussed in the
911 Truth movement.





(edited to add cartoon about bolo and remove some wordprocessing artifacts and
add info about GE and IRI)

[greyl]

12. Impressive, eh? That's what a concerted effort to discover the truth looks like.nt

[petgoat]

13. Frantic debunking is a rush to judgment, not a quest for truth. nt

[greyl]

14. A rush to judgement has no consideration for fact checking. nt

[piobair]

15. I don't see it

as "frantic". On it's face the claim seems pretty impalusible that one and only one EMT would have this information. This is very similar to the Airman{I forget his name} who claimed to have had a series of discussions on 9/11 with all kinds of individuals that neatly wraps up all kind of conspiracy theories. He just faded away once people started to look at him in the light of day. I think the bullshit meters are finely tuned by now.

[greyl]

16. I assumed petgoat was talking about the 5 threads at JREF.

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64

I could be wrong, but it doesn't make sense otherwise, as you've pointed out.

[petgoat]

17. Welcome to DU, piobair!

:hi:

Nobody is claiming that only one EMT has this information. If the countdown
was broadcast on the radio, many heard it.

Only one will talk about it, and even now, five years later, only anonymously.
Maybe it's hooey, maybe it's not. Maybe others will confirm it, and maybe not.
I see no need to react like a crew of ghostbusters. Time will tell.

[greyl]

18. It's a virtue to be comfortable with ambiguity, but goddam.

Take a stand.

[petgoat]

19. I did take a stand: Wait and See.

My other stands include:

"Many questions remain unanswered. We need a new investigation."

[greyl]

21. O, brother where art thou?

Let's take a wait and see stand on global climate change, too.

(don't bother saying the two are on immensely different levels of import, I know.)

[Contrite]

28. What in the hell does this have to do with global warming?

Talk about derailing the discussion with something completely irrelevant!

[greyl]

30. CTists aren't known for their senses of humor and irony. nt

[Contrite]

31. Well, brother, you don't know me.

And I happen to be known for a sense of humor and irony.

This has nothing to do with that, either.

[greyl]

35. I didn't know that.

Btw, the subject of my reply to petgoat was the uselessness of taking a passive wait and see stand even after there's a wealth of information on which to base a solid conclusion. I could have also said "let's take a wait and see stand on whether Elvis Presley is dead, too".

Does that help?

[Contrite]

37. Yes, I got that (it couldn't have been more obvious)

The point is that global warming (and Elvis) are two extreme examples of what you were trying to point out that have absolutely no bearing on the subject at hand and you deliberately picked them in order to ridicule the actual subject matter AND petgoat, and you know it.

[greyl]

40. Bullshit, that's pathetic. You aren't tracking the conversation.

The actual subject is the fantasy email you're touting as real.

How do you know I didn't write it?

[Contrite]

41. There you go again.

Is it possible for you to even consider the possibility that this EMT, Mike, is for real, and so is his e-mail? Why is it SO radically important for you to immediately discount it and to start insulting everyone within range who is looking into it and/or discussing it?

Also, on edit: I went back and RE-read the preceding posts and you have misrepresented the context; i.e., it wasn't specifically about the "e-mail".

[Bolo Boffin]

43. His emails are a bundle of improbable lies. See post #1. n/t

[Contrite]

45. See post #39.

One of the so-called "improbable lies" was that Mike was in NYC helping at the WTC in the first place.

[Bolo Boffin]

51. No evidence yet that he was.

His assertion of such is not evidence.

[Contrite]

53. But it discredits the theory that it's an improbable lie. n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

55. Not without evidence, it doesn't.

He has no corroboration of his story whatsoever. You guys are being played.

[Contrite]

60. The possibility exists.

But without evidence that this is a complete sham, we don't know, do we?

I am quite sure the rest of us would like corroboration as much as you wish us or Mike to provide it.

[greyl]

64. The 2 possibilities exist that "Mike" is a so-called OCTer, and that

he's only trying to scam Avery and Bermas out of money for appearing in the next movie.

[piobair]

20. with regards to the broadcast

of the countdown over the radio. What channel? It is well documented that communication were {and still are} difficult between fire, police and medical. Would they{whoever they are} have detonated explosives without making sure the area was completely clear? What about the hundreds who supposedley heard the bull horn announcement? Where are they? Given the number of people necessary to pull of a CD scenario, I find it hard to believe that not one person has gone to the NYT or Kieth Olbermann and told all. If that person had any evidence he would be so high profile that the perps wouldn't dare touch him.

[petgoat]

24. How many people do you think were necessary to pull off

a CD scenario and why?

With respect to the towers, Dr. Romero of New Mexico Tech, an explosives expert,
said that a few charges in strategic places could have brought the towers down. *

I have pointed out that if FEMA's zipper/pancake theory of the towers' destruction
were correct, a couple of suicide metalworkers using high-speed abrasive cutting
disks could have brought the towers down.

As to WTC7, given its unusual design, don't you think a skilled structural engineer
given a few weeks with the blueprints could devise a plan for bringing it down with
a minimum number of charges? If a fires and structural damage cover story had been
concoted ahead of time, the fires and the damage could have been arranged. For
instance, charges could have been planted in WTC6 to blow steel across the street
at the facade of WTC7.

I'm curious as to how many technicians you think would need to be involved. And why
you think they couldn't have been killed to keep them silent.


*Don't let anybody tell you that Dr. Romero recanted this statement, either, because
he didn't. He can't, because it's true. What he recanted was his statement that
the fires could not have brought the towers down.

[wildbilln864]

33. I also think it's possible...

that these demolition devices(thermit, RDX, etc.) could have been installed over a long period of time and concealed whereby only a few persons were needed. They could bring one crate of explosives once a week for instance over a year's time. A Bush family member was on the board of the security firm responsible for the WTC's security. I speculate that he could have influenced the company to maybe hire the agents who'd plant the devices. That could help keep the installation a secret until they were used. It wouldn't take hundreds if you have months and months to accomplish it a little at a time and the installation is secretly done by rogues posing as security personnel. Is that impossible, unlikely? Probably! :shrug:
After all , the Bush/PNAC cabal has unlimited resources. Cash, intel, manpower, etc.!

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackRiddler]

66. I am demolition agnostic but OCTs obviously exaggerate the logistics...

First of all, I hereby prohibit* anyone from using the term "CD" as a description of what might have happened at WTC 1 and 2. This is a red herring. The question is whether preplanted explosives were used, not whether there was a "controlled demolition" (is "controlled" even possible with a 110-story tower?)

According to NIST, the collapse itself so obviously follows from the initial failure of floors and columns in the impact zone that it doesn't even require an explanation; their thousands of pages on it are therefore restricted to describing a scenario for collapse initiation, and "gravity does the rest" (says Shyam Sunder) as the falling top section sets off a progressive collapse in each case.

By this logic, anything that knocks out a sufficient number of support columns on one or two floors would therefore also suffice to initiate a collapse, letting "gravity do the rest." In the CD business, they pride themselves on minimizing the amount of explosives required to bring down a building, letting potential energy do their work for them. By NIST's own logic, you wouldn't need explosives at the base or practically anywhere except on a couple of floors to cause what we saw on 9/11.

But many who are fully convinced of the NIST explanation for the WTC, still try to debunk the explosives hypothesis by pretending it would require enormous complexity and labor. They say a group planning to blow up the WTC towers for the purpose of terror (thus murdering everyone in the buildings) would first need to gut the entire interior (in the manner of a standard CD), transport x hundred tons of explosives, invade the office of every company with loud disruptive operations for months, employ thousands of miles of det wire, require teams of hundreds all of whom would know exactly what they were doing and why, etc. etc.

You know, there are mercenary assholes in the world, assassins, killers, "operatives" who have shown they can be trusted to keep silent about prior crimes. There are people who massacre others for cash, and there are more respectable people who do things like planning nuclear war or commissioniong scientists to build a new generation of mini-nukes so that we can finally set some off with a clear conscience.

You're telling me such people need to be killed themselves, to keep quiet? Why? Because otherwise they'd write a book (if they can write) about blowing up the WTC, get attention in the corporate media and "make a million dollars" -- right after the Hollywood happy ending in which they bring down the regime by confessing on television, right?

A few such men with security passes and clearance, working in the core areas of the Towers under the guise of doing maintenance (and the core is mostly a maintenance area) could set up the explosives required (if we believe the NIST hypothesis, or pay attention to how demolitions are done) while minimizing their own footprints and having very few people in these vast office buildings even notice their existence.

"What's that noise?"

"Oh, it's the workers again."

"Oh. How do you like the Patriots in the game Sunday?"

---

* Watch our resident humorless literalists jump up to say, "You don't have a right to prohibit me!!!"

[piobair]

76. The number of technicians is a good question.

If you tried to do it in a hurry then you would need dozens if not a hundred therebye increasing the chances of being discovered. If you tried to be stealthy then it would probably still take more than ten and would require many months of preparation. Before you counter with "they only had to place charges on a few key beams" please explain how they managed to get the collapse to start in the impact zone. Also, the CD community is pretty small and even the deaths of a few technicians would raise some red flags.

On another thread it is claimed that the "truth" movement is gaining steam and soon all will be revealed. Well I've been coming hear for several years and quite honestly have seen nothing new in the way of ideas for the last two years. Somebody just posted the idea that the explosives were built into the building to aid in it's demo when it had outlived its profitability. Christophera tried that a couple of years ago with "c4 coated re-bar". It's really getting kind of boring to see the same old theories trotted out time and again with no other evidence than "gut feeling" or Bush is so evil he must have done it.

[Contrite]

32. From the article at the link I provided below

Perhaps this will help to add some credibility:

In addition, there were no firefighters in WTC 7 to "pull" in the first place.

Dr. Shyam Sunder, of the National Institutes of Standards and Technology (NIST), which investigated the collapse of WTC 7, is quoted in Popular Mechanics (9/11: Debunking the Myths, March, 2005) as saying: "There was no firefighting in WTC 7."

The FEMA report on the collapses, from May, 2002, also says about the WTC 7 collapse: "no manual firefighting operations were taken by FDNY."

(snip)

Following the attacks, Mike made a sustained effort to inform the relevant authorities of what he saw, including the FDNY, the NYPD, newspapers and television networks. In every case he was told to "shut up", "forget about it", or "let it go, for my own good."

Initially praised as heroes, when Mike and his colleague tried to to alert their EMT Coordinator In Charge of what they had witnessed, they were brought up on charges of disorderly conduct, fired, and fined for damaged uniforms and equipment they had used on 9/11. Two other colleagues who witnessed the same events now refuse to even acknowledge they were at ground zero for fear of reprisals.

The astounding testimony of this brave EMT only adds further credence to the already overwhelming case for controlled demolition of both the twin towers and Building 7. We implore this individual to go public with his full name in the interests of his own safety. It is far more secure to blow the whistle out in the light than to remain in the shadows and become another victim of those who wish to see 9/11 truth buried.

[Taxloss]

22. You know what's really amusing?

If no one had come onto this thread to debunk the OP for, say, 12 hours or so, you MIHOPers would now be chuckling about how "curiously silent" the "OCTers" are. Trying to have your cake and eat it - that's amusing.

[HamdenRice]

23. It has to do with subject matter

At bottom, the OP is related to a theory of demolition, hence the immediate and frantic "debunking." Posters usually note the lack of response from "debunkers" when the subject matter consists of more plausible and demonstrable theories about funding by foreign intelligence agencies.

[jberryhill]

69. So?

There may have been all sorts of people involved in 9/11, and it is clear that the Bush administration has actively sought to conceal any information relating to potential involvement by Saudi intelligence.

Those are entirely different, and more interesting, subjects than assertions that the towers were brought down by directed energy weapons, that the pentagon was not hit by a plane, and other twaddle of that ilk. The more I watch this stuff, the more convinced I become that the nutcase stuff is *intended* to discourage investigation of the more substantive topics.

There seems to be this mindset that if I do or do not believe proposition X relative to the tower collapse mechanism, then I must believe or not believe a wholly unrelated Y relative to the relationships of various parties having something to do with 9/11.

[HamdenRice]

70. This is about the dynamic in this forum

Some of us are interested in the things you mention, like links between the hijackers and various intel agencies that have been reported in mainstream media sources.

The dynamic in this forum goes something like this: someone posts something about, say, demolition. Then a number of self appointed debunkers pile on "prove" demolition could not have happened, and the conclude that therefore the official story explains everything.

Then when other post about links between the hijackers and Pakistani or Saudi intelligence, or Mohammed Atta's bizarre life in Florida, which contradicts the official story, the same debunkers are silent, even though such information is not reconcileable with the official narrative.

[jberryhill]

89. So?

Your problem is that people disagree with some things and not with other things.

Where is this "official story" that "explains everything"? And where is anyone saying that?

[Bolo Boffin]

25. Yes, your attempt to disbunk my post is amusing, petgoat. n/t

[greyl]

26. Plus, he added the portion about you after piobair's reply. nt

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[greyl]

36. Your prisonplanet link is a day old.

Those in the 2007 Truth Movement have rendered it embarrassingly obselete.
Read this thread for comprehension, and don't be afraid to click on the links.

[Contrite]

38. Want to know what's obsolete?

People who believe in the Official Conspiracy Theory.

That's so, 2001.

[greyl]

48. How do you know the email wasn't composed by a few so-called OCTers who want to make CTists

look like gullible fools?

-greyl

[AZCat]

49. I don't think it was.

We so-called OCTers know that if we wait long enough, the CTers will manage to look like gullible fools all on their own.

[greyl]

56. Yeah, neither do I. nt

[Bolo Boffin]

57. This letter hit just after D'ohP got banned from LCF, right? n/t

[greyl]

62. I'm not familiar enough with LCF to know. * Search for "rediculous"

in this forum.

[JackRiddler]

67. It wouldn't surprise me...

They did send it to the LC boys, after all.

[firecoins]

73. curious

I am curious how no emergency responders joined the 911 truth movement until this unidentafiable EMT-B from NJ showed up. He was able to identify symetrical explosions while in the basement and have a casual conversation about it with a patient and 3 other people, 2 of whom deny the event happaned. We don't know who the patient is. This other responder who isn't denying it doesn't seem to be anywhere to back up the story.

[greyl]

75. It's more likely to be someone trying to get paid by Avery, Rowe, and Bermas.

The point of my question was to highlight the selective gullibility of the so-called 9/11 Truth Movement, i.e. Confirmation Bias.

[greyl]

77. . nt

[greyl]

78. Kick to add link to another Truther fraud:

here

[catnhatnh]

86. For what it's worth...I was an EMT-B and have worked a building collapse...

Before and BS flags are thrown my Connecticut cert# was 86-243 and I worked for my hometown as a volunteer and in a major city for a paid ambulance service.The building collapse I worked was L'ambience Plaza in Bridgeport Ct. in about '87...29 killed 10 day rescue/recovery operation...no survivors found.I worked the second night after the collapse.
So how could a NJ Emt wind up at the WTC before the crash...well as a worker on a paid service, much of our work consisted of transfer work...moving patients from hospital to home,or other hospitals, or even to diagnostic testing centers...in 86 or 87 we drove a patient from Ct to long Island NY when a center there had one of the first MRIs in the northeast.So any how we spent plenty of time out of where we were based in full uniform with a complete and sometimes empty rig, and if we happened to be first at an accident scene we were actually required to render aid.Could a Jersey rig have been there and would they have responded-yes and it is possible.Any EMT who has traveled the I-95 corridor can tell you about handling crashes they arrived at first until the local responders arrived...Radio stuff-our paid ambulance had a single radio with several frequencies and the volunteer rig had two systems-one with several frequencies and one dedicated to Southwest C-Med the service that coordinated emergency responders and connected us to trauma centers at local hospitals...many services used different frequencies to avoid clashing with other services but when out of your home area our frequencies would sometimes coincide with someone Else's and we could monitor their communications.Being charged with "disorderly conduct" or being charged for uniforms sounds odd to me,but I recognize that rules and standards vary not just state to state but even among services in the same town...So anyhow-do I believe it???Not yet-but is it possible-it MAY be...that's my take.

[DrBlix]

88. Collapse of WTC Building 7 Video

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/wtc7_collapse2.mpg

[greyl]

90. 9/11 Conspiracists - "Believe Your Eyes" video

Using the Tacoma Narrows Bridge to illustrate the problems with appealing to the layman to understand physics through observation of movie footage.
3 minute YouTube vid