I offered a $10,000 reward

[donhakman]

for a photo or video of the plane before it hit the pentagon while traveling over the DC landmarks full of tourists.


Not a single response.

[Massacure]

1. Are you saying a plane never hit the Pentagon?

[donhakman]

2. I said what I said.

.

[Worst Username Ever]

3. tinfoil hat, double layered n/t

[ramblin_dave]

4. There were reports that the FBI confiscated two videos,

one from a hotel and one from a gas station. The hotel video was reportedly being viewed over and over by hotel employees so it apparently caught something.

Did the 9/11 commission ever mention anything about what happened to these two videos?

[JuniperLea]

5. you know i'm so tired

of things not being explained, then anyone who questions is labeled a kook.

sad, sad, sad times my friends.

[MercutioATC]

6. A few eyewitness reports of the plane that hit the Pentagon...

(some big names, too):

http://www.dragonslair.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/77/ffdd.html

http://www.wtc-terrorattack.com/pentagon_eyewitness_accounts.htm

[ramblin_dave]

8. But where are the videos?

The ones confiscated by the FBI. Were the news reports of these false? If not, where are they and why can't we see them?

[MercutioATC]

9. I have no idea. The fact remains that a LOT of people saw a commercial

airliner. Yes, the videos would be nice, but I don't think ALL of those witnesses could have been wrong.

[ramblin_dave]

10. I don't either but that doesn't explain why

the videos haven't been released. Perhaps they reveal something else that the regime wants to keep hidden?

[MercutioATC]

12. Actually, it's common to not release evidence of events still under

investigation. I do agree that I'd like to see them, but it's not unusual for them to be kept out of the public view until the investigation is concluded.

[ramblin_dave]

13. Well the investigation is almost done, so

we'll know soon if they get released.

But if they're not, then what will you say?

If they claim there are no such videos, then what will you say?

[MercutioATC]

16. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I'd definitely want to know

why they wouldn't release the evidence after the investigation...if, in fact, they refuse to release it.

[demodewd]

25. its common all right

Yes. Its common for the FBI to confiscate incriminating evidence especially when it incriminates the government.

[MercutioATC]

31. Yawn...

It's also common for ANY investigating body to wait until an investigation is complete to release evidence.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

14. Thousands of people swore they saw

The sun dance in the sky at Fatima:

At one o'clock in the afternoon, midday by the sun, the rain stopped. The sky, pearly gray in color, illuminated the vast arid landscape with a strange light. The sun had a transparent gauzy veil so that eyes could easily be fixed upon it. The gray mother-of-pearl tone turned into a sheet of silver which broke up as the clouds were torn apart and the silver sun, enveloped in the same gauzy gray light, was seen to whirl and turn in the circle of broken clouds. A cry went up from every mouth and people fell on their knees on the muddy ground. The light turned a beautiful blue as if it had come through the stained-glass windows of a cathedral and spread itself over the people who knelt with outstretched hands. The blue faded slowly and then the light seemed to pass through yellow glass. Yellow stains fell against white handkerchiefs, against the dark skirts of women. They were reported on the trees, on the stones and on the serra. People wept and prayed with uncovered heads in the presence of the miracle they had awaited.

But hey, witnesses can never be wrong, eh?

[MercutioATC]

18. Mass hysteria and scores of separate reports are different things.

Had the Pentagon witnesses all been standing in a field together, I'd question their reports much more seriously. That wasn't the case.

[donhakman]

33. mercur...

Of the 2 sites you posted only one person, Alan Cleveland claimed he saw the plane from a metro train prior to hitting the Pentagon.

[Guaranteed]

7. Maybe they just didn't take your offer seriously.

You were going to give someone $10,000 to DISPROVE your theory?

[donhakman]

36. looney goose

I only stipulated that only a verified photo or video of the plane prior to impact be submitted. No claims of any theory have ever been mentioned.

You do seem to make innuendo to one of your own however.

[jackstraw45]

11. Explain to me...

WHERE are the people who were on the plane being hidden?

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html

I'm sure the families of the passengers and pilots and FAs would like to know.

Perhaps with the $10,000 dollars you've saved, you can conduct an OJ type search for those missing people.

:eyes:

[Cat Atomic]

15. I can't find a photo of Martha Stewart's ass, either.

But I'm pretty sure she has one.

Why would you doubt that a plane hit the Pentagon?

[ContinentalOp]

17. Um, sorry but...

If I were on vacation in DC at a famous landmark with my camera I'm guessing that I would probably be pointing my camera at the landmark or my family. Maybe you spend your vacation with your camera pointed up at the skies but apparently you weren't in DC that day so we're out of luck :)

[rastignac5]

19. Hundreds of planes fly across DC landmarks everyday.

Reagan Airport is next door, you moron.

[jackstraw45]

20. Well said.

This thread is pathetic.

OBVIOUSLY, the starter hasn't lived in the DC area. I lived less than a mile from the pentagon on 9/11. Planes were ALWAYS taking off and landing nearby.

Onward conspiracy buffs.

But please, if anyone can produce the passengers of Flight 77 and I'll apologize. Like I said, I'm sure their families and friends will be pleased to hear they are still alive and being hidden by our government.

You guys call Scully, I'll call Mulder.

[timdoodle]

21. Here is a picture

of the debris field...enough said...

[MercutioATC]

24. Actually, much of the wreckage hit the surrounding roads, too.

http://www.dragonslair.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/77/ffdd.html

[demodewd]

27. wreckage

Lots of wreckage...no body parts...hmmmm??

[MercutioATC]

28. No body parts? Did you read the witness statements?

""U.S. Army Sgt. Major Tony Rose.
“I picked up a child's hand. That was it. Just a child's hand and that's when I got angry. To wonder why someone could do this. You can come after me. I'm a soldier. I have sworn to protect and defend, but that wasn't right,”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/earlyshow/main521568.shtml
It's hard to erase what he saw. A child's hand. A foot ripped off above the ankle. And, oddly, eyeglasses without a scratch."

http://www.dragonslair.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/77/ffdd.html

Missed that, did ya?

[demodewd]

30. where?

Body parts on the lawn and highway?

[MercutioATC]

35. No, inside the Pentagon

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/earlyshow/main521568.shtml

[demodewd]

39. unusual?

No trace of body parts outside the building? I find that unusual. Don't you? considering the amount of debris ending up on the lawn and highway.

[MercutioATC]

43. Again, the report deals with that, too...

"A study of the locations of fatalities also yields insight into the breakup of the aircraft and, therefore its influence on the structure. The remains of most of the passengers on the aircraft were found near the end of the travel of the aircraft debris. The front landing gear (a relatively solid and heavy object) and the flight data recorder (which had been located near the rear of the aircraft) were also found nearly 300 ft into the structure. By contrast, the remains of a few individuals (the hijacking suspects), who most likely were near the front of the aircraft, were found relatively close to the aircraft’s point of impact with the building. These data suggest that the front of the aircraft disintegrated essentially upon impact but, in the process, opened up a hole allowing the trailing portions of the fuselage to pass into the building."

http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline03/0203feat.html

[demodewd]

44. bang

The plane blew up as evidence by the confetti like debris spewed all over which way. An oxygen bottle from inside the cabin was found on the highway. The fact that there was confetti like debris strongly suggests explosives/missile(s).

[MercutioATC]

45. Yeah, except for all of the people who saw a commercial airliner...

AND the large piece of metal in the lawn with the "C" from "American" on it...

AND the nosewheel...

AND the fact that the oxygen bottle you mention had "Cabin air. Airline use." stenciled on it...

AND an intact seat from the cockpit...

AND children's shoes, stuffed animals and suitcases...

That's a lot of non-F-16, non-missile debris.

[demodewd]

54. pardon me...but..

The "C" on the lawn has been widely refuted.I never said I thought it was an F-16. You must have me confused with someone else. I subscribe to eric barts site at the moment( a plane the size or near the size of #77 that was "tarted up" to look like a commercial(AA) airliner). Probably strapped with shaped charges and possibly carrying a bomband/or missile.

[MercutioATC]

59. The report would also support a similar-sized plane crashing, if I read it

correctly.

[Abe Linkman]

56. With no proof that FL77 crashed, we need an INdependent investigation

Until then, people trying to sell the notion that FL 77 crashed into the Pentagon are just going to be thought of as wacky (by informed persons)
or worse. It almost seems like the only people who could be so certain must have a hidden agenda for being so adamant, yet not having any proof to support their conspiracy theory of "Wacky Cavepeople Did It"...and Hani Hanjour really was the acrobatic pilot of their little group.

[MercutioATC]

60. I'm not arguing the value of an independent investigation.

That was never the issue here. YOU claimed that a 757 could not have caused the damage to the Pentagon and I posted a link to a report that showed how it very well could have.

YOU then chose to make an issue of it, not read the report, and say what a "fairy tale" is was. I simply offered a report that refuted your claim.

[Abe Linkman]

62. You have MY facts wrong. I never said that.

I never said a 757 could not have caused "the damage to the Pentagon".
A 737, 747, 767 or a 787 COULD have caused "the damage".

Many people have said that the scene at the Pentagon is inconsistent with a 757 having crashed there. I agree.

If a 757 had crashed there, two engines would have been found, a much larger entry hole would have been created, the lawn would be scorched, there would NOT be a circular nine foot exit hole in the wall of the third(?) wing etc.

If a 757 had crashed there, the parking lot video would show a large commercial 757, not a small jet that shoots what almost certainly is a missile into the Pentagon and then follows it into the hole created thusly.

If a 757 had crashed there, the Gov't would have released the video images from the service station camera and from the Sheraton Hotel camera.

If a 757 had crashed there, PENTAGON video images would have been released to show what happened.

If FL 77 had even ATTEMPTED to crash there, surface to air missiles
would have been fired at the aircraft.

You are desperately avoiding the evidence which clearly undermines the Fairy Tale you are here trying to sell. The only people here who are buying are the few naive and gullible people who have yet to learn what they weren't told by Gov't propaganda agents and FOX News.

[MercutioATC]

63. Do you need me to refresh your memory (again)?

#1)

"Abe Linkman (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-13-04 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #162

164. The damage is consistent with a small plane, definitely not a 757.

The entry & exit holes alone prove that. Propaganda and disinformation
programs can't change reality. They might influence your perception of it, but that's all."

#2)

"Abe Linkman (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-13-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #166

168. Use your eyes, silly goose. Do YOU see a hole big enough for a 757?

Do YOU see damage to the lawn in front of the Pentagon?
Do YOU see ANY airplane parts that could have come from a 757 (other than the obviously fake one that was planted out on the lawn -- that's such a poor fake it doesn't even have the right colors in the right place)?

If you were being objective or if you knew that people could identify who you are! -- there's NO way you'd claim FL 77 crashed at the Pentagon. There's NO way you'd claim it did that, then disintegrated but kept on going and for its Grand Finale, punched out a near-perfect nine foot circle before collapsing into billions and billions of little tiny bits & pieces of something or other. You wouldn't do that, and we both know it. It's just too crazy. Too bizarre for words.

Stick with what you know: ATC stuff."

#3)

"Abe Linkman (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-13-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #7

10. The images from the parking lot camera proves it wasn't a 757.


The only images that HAVE been released proves that FL 77 didn't crash
into the Pentagon...or anywhere else. The parking lot video images show
a small jet shooting a missile just before the plane hits the Pentagon.
That plane is most likely an unmanned F-16.

There's no way the Gov't can afford to release the images from the Sheraton camera or the service station camera...although it might be kind of interesting to see how the Disinfo agents would try and deal with the reality. I think if the images ARE ever released, the "line" will be that the F-16 was sacrificed in the line of duty, and the Gov't will do everything in its power to find the "Evil Doers" who "took over" FL 77 and went to parts now "unknown" (to the public, anyhow)."

#4)

"Abe Linkman (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-12-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #117

119. demodewd: They have a theory for that, too. It's the "magic 757 theory".

It's plausible to cite shaped charges as the source for a jet stream-created exit hole. Claiming that a destroyed 757 could do that makes no sense at all...except to maybe Arlen Spector."



...and that's just from the first page of the 9/11 Forum.


Abe, there IS a search function here, remember?

[LARED]

67. Sounds to me like disinfo agents are have a hard time

remembering what their instructions are.

Or something else.

[MercutioATC]

68. ...or remembering what they say, perhaps?

Hey, I'M not the one trying to discredit a report that I refused to read...or a report I finally read and could provide no specific rebuttals to.

Interesting that you bring up people trying to spread "disinformation"....

[MercutioATC]

70. Oops...meant for Abe, not you, LARED...

:spank:

[LARED]

72. That was understood (n/t)

[mikedaul]

74. pentagon defenses

If FL 77 had even ATTEMPTED to crash there, surface to air missiles would have been fired at the aircraft.

This is something I have often wondered about. What kind of defenses really exist at the pentagon? How hard would it be to shoot down a jet that's coming straight at you? Would it make a difference if you hit it with a SAM right before it crashes into the building? What about defenses at the white house and capital?

[vincent_vega_lives]

75. Good question

What kind of defenses really exist at the pentagon?
Before Sept 11? Zero point defenses. Area defenses consisted of NORAD fighters at Langly. Now?, Avenger short range SAMs parked around the DC area.

How hard would it be to shoot down a jet that's coming straight at you? Would it make a difference if you hit it with a SAM right before it crashes into the building?

A large aircraft? Very. SAMs have a very small blast/frag warhead designed to home on the engine heat and disable it. Even if both engines were disabled by SAMs it is likley a large aircraft will still hit it's intended target unless there was enough prior warning.

What about defenses at the white house and capital? Same. Primary defence is fighters at Langly.

[Abe Linkman]

47. Does this description sound like a 757 or a single engine plane (F-16)

"The front landing gear (a relatively solid and heavy object)"

[MercutioATC]

51. Have you seen the picture of the landing gear?

It's not from an F-16.

[vincent_vega_lives]

73. Not unusual

Human beings are not light, like aluminimun aircraft skin found ouside the Pentagon. For debris ouside the building the explosion would have to counteract inertia. The skin is light enough for this to occur.

[Abe Linkman]

32. WHICH surrounding road or street was he on?

Thanks.

[MercutioATC]

34. Sgt. Rose was inside the Pentagon

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/earlyshow/main521568.shtml

[Abe Linkman]

48. Nothing out there on the streets or lawn. So, why did you say that?

You're starting to sound very blatant, like you are either desperate or else you know damn well you're talking trash, but for whatever reason, you have to keep doing it.

[MercutioATC]

50. No reports of body parts...PLENTY of reports of debris.

Had you used the link and read the page, you'd have known that.

Am I going to have to bring you up to speed on EVERYTHING, or will you start actually reading before you post so you know what you're talking about?

[Abe Linkman]

29. Was that BEFORE or AFTER when you say the plane disintegrated?

Did any bodies also "hit the surrounding roads, too"? If not, WHERDY go?

And don't refer us to another "report". You have a habit of referring people to "reports" that are like those Judith Miller fictional reports on WMD. But, I know that YOU are ONLY an ATC employee and that your job does NOT require you to do ANYTHING that isn't STRICTLY the same as that of any ATC employee with the same title, and that you have NO OTHER paid work that you do, and that since you DON'T live in the Washington, DC area, there is NO reason to suspect otherwise.

[MercutioATC]

37. Give you evidence but don't refer to a report?

How, exactly, does one do that?

I haven't seen any reports of bodies on the surrounding roads, just inside the Pentagon.

[Abe Linkman]

49. Now, you're backpedaling! Get back up on your Spinning Wheel!

You're going all over the place! Try to keep at least one of your stories straight, please.

[MercutioATC]

52. How is asking you a question "backpedaling"?

You posted:

"Did any bodies also "hit the surrounding roads, too"? If not, WHERDY go?

And don't refer us to another "report"."

I wasn't there, so how would I be able to address your question without referring to a report?

[Abe Linkman]

66. So, you have no evidence of bodies landing in the roads or on the lawn.

Of course you don't, because no bodies did hit the roads or the parking lot. The only victims were Pentagon employees, and they were considered dispensable apparently, since the "important" ones (Naval Intelligence) had recently been moved to a different part of the building. How CONVEEEEEEEEnient!

You must not realize how it makes you look whenever you do things like refer to eyewitnesses or something else...if it's convenient to whatever line you're selling at the moment, but if it it's INconvenient, you use the fallback of saying you weren't there, so you'll have to rely on some PR report.

Can you say "I'm a flip-flopper"?

[MercutioATC]

71. Proof of child labor law violations at the Pentagon!!!!

"The only victims were Pentagon employees"

Contrast that statement to the following rescue worker account:

"U.S. Army Sgt. Major Tony Rose.
“I picked up a child's hand. That was it. Just a child's hand and that's when I got angry. To wonder why someone could do this. You can come after me. I'm a soldier. I have sworn to protect and defend, but that wasn't right,”"

http://www.dragonslair.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/77/ffdd.html

[demodewd]

26. what??

Enough said about what??

[LARED]

22. DU LIHOP/MIHOP team looking for the $10,000

[MercutioATC]

23. Great pic, LARED!

:)

[donhakman]

38. I live in the DC area

I see the tourists on the mall taking video of anything and everything.

One would have to agree that it is possible someone took a picture of this plane without even knowing it.

So I had the money to ask to buy one.

None came forward.

[LARED]

40. So you offered some money to see if a photo existed

So no one has one. So What?

[MercutioATC]

41. Sorry, that reply to LARED wasn't meant as a reflection on you...

...just on some others here. I should have specified.

Again, I'm sorry I wasn't more clear.

[donhakman]

42. When I asked Ch 7

for a tape of their 9-11 broadcast regarding a man they interviewed outside the Pentagon who described seeing the plane come in, I was told they would not provide me with any tape to protect the privacy of those involved.

That response piqued my curisosity a bit, but they have a right to say no sale at any price I guess.

[LARED]

46. Please clarity what you are getting at

You somehow publicly (I assume) offered $10,000 to anyone producing a picture. No one responded with a picture of flight 77 or a picture of some other aircraft. Why do you think this is meaningful?

Then you state you asked channel 7 for a copy of a tape of them interviewing a man that states he SAW the jet.

How are the photo and interview connected? There are tons of newspaper and transcripts of interviews with people that saw the jet.

[Bob Stanford]

53. no text (deleted by Bob Stanford)

[DulceDecorum]

57. Actually LARED,

that is so untrue.
&paper=chronicle&file=MN289428.DTL&directory=/c/a/2003/07/12&type=news

I can hardly believe that would distort a story about a hoax
in order to discredit the members of the Democratic Underground who are working to expose a hoax.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/07/12/MN289428.DTL&type=news

How would you like it if we said that those were
Depleted Uranium yellow-cake specialists
inspecting the Atkins Diet wheat-field
in Iraq
for Weapons of Mass Distraction
from the plethora of Bush Administration scandals.

The fact of the matter is,
that $10,000 is safe.
There was no plane.
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/war_worlds.html

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/960/

And on top of that you, LARED, have yourself CREATED a hoax
in implying that there is a DU LIHOP/MIHOP team
and that THEY would be the ones out looking for the ten grand.
YOU are the one who believes that a plane impacted the Pentagon.
How come YOU are not out there looking for the proof
that will garner you ten thousand US dollars?
Is it because YOU KNOW as well as we do that
THERE are NO Photos of VIDEO or SEISMIC reports
because it simply did not happen?
Flight 77 was NOT scheduled to fly that day and it did NOT take off from Dulles.
Period.
Hallelujah.
Amen.
And ain't no amount of cash gonna change that.

[Bob Stanford]

55. Joe Vialls claims to have pictures of AA 77

Joe Vialls claims to have pictures of AA 77:




See http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/pentagon/pentagon2.htm

[DulceDecorum]

58. And I am claiming to have footage of

Godzilla,
Mothra,
and Cousin It.

[donhakman]

61. Thanks Bob, I had never seen that before.

.

[geek tragedy]

64. Joe Vialls is a bigoted lunatic who claims all sorts of false things. eom

[LARED]

65. I agree

The man has zero credibility.

[Make7]

69. Where did you place the ads? (n/t)