Question about Jackie Kennedy during the assassination of JFK

[undeterred]

One of the questions I've always had after watching the Zapruder film was why did Mrs. Kennedy start crawling over the back of the limo after JFK was shot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecZ4YOmPz2A

Was she afraid of being shot herself and trying to get out of danger?

Was she trying to get to her Secret Service person?

Was she as one source suggests, reaching back to pick up a piece of JFK's shattered head?

Asked about it later she apparently said she didn't remember doing it so she doesn't know why she did it. But that day she was quoted as saying "they've killed my husband" and wanting everyone to see her bloodied clothes so that people would know what "they've" done.

[Bolo Boffin]

1. Personally, I think she was trying to retrieve pieces of Jack's body.

There was no way she was going to abandon any part of Jack's body, no way, no how.

[Ghost in the Machine]

2. How would pieces of his body fly toward the back of the car...

if he was shot from behind?

:shrug:

[undeterred]

4. That would be a question for Arlen Specter.

[Ghost in the Machine]

10. Ah yes, the magic bullet...

Anything is possible with those, ya know...

:hi:

[greyl]

5. Look:

http://www.reallybored.net/pictures/Apple-Shot-with-Bullet

[undeterred]

6. Robin Hood was there?

[greyl]

7. Since you bring up Costner instead of William Tell, here are 100 lies in Stone's JFK.

www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html

[undeterred]

8. I haven't seen it.

But by the way, do you know why Mrs. Kennedy was crawling over the trunk of the limo?

[greyl]

13. I don't think anyone ever knew or will know for sure.

Not even Mrs. Kennedy.

[Ghost in the Machine]

9. Yay! Comparing apples to.... well... human heads!

"Apple Shot with Bullet
This is kind of what your head would look like being shot with a high power rifle if your head was an apple."

:eyes:


Do you have anything that's not so comical?

[greyl]

12. I see. Teepees and skyscrapers are supposed to collapse the same, but this is comical.

Apples have no special properties that cause pieces of it to travel toward the origin of an impacting bullet. It's just how stuff behaves.

Are you asserting that pieces of an object hit by a bullet will only travel in the same direction as the bullet?

[Ghost in the Machine]

14. Yes, C-O-M-I-C-A-L, as in Daffy Duck fucking funny....

If you can't comprehend the difference between an apple and a person being shot, there's really not anything else I can say...

Are you asserting that an apple is going to respond to a bullet the same way a human being would? Really?

[greyl]

15. In this case, there are distinctions without a difference.

I could have also illustrated the point by reminding you how a pool of water behaves when a raindrop falls into it or when a meteor impacts Earth. There's a reason these look so similar: it's how stuff behaves.

High-speed bullets damage organs in ways different from what we usually think. Here is an extended passage from one of the U.S.’s foremost authorities on the subject, Dr. Vincent J. M. Di Maio, Chief Medical Examiner and Director of the Regional Crime Laboratory, County of Bexar, San Antonio, Texas (from his Gunshot Wounds, CRC Press, Boca Raton, FL, 1985).

"In the concept of a gunshot wound held by most individuals, the bullet goes through the person like a drill bit through wood, 'drilling' a neat hole through structures it passes through. However, this concept is erroneous. As a bullet moves through the body, it imparts kinetic energy to the surrounding tissue, flinging it away form the bullet’s path in a radial manner (direction) and producing a temporary cavity considerably larger than the diameter of the bullet. This temporary cavity, which has a lifetime of 5 to 10 msec from initial rapid growth until collapse, undergoes a series of gradually smaller pulsations and contractions before it finally disappears, leaving the permanent wound track."

More to learn...

edit: Please, GitM, resist any irreverent urge you might have to post a picture of Zippy the Pinhead in this thread.

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. ummmm...

"In the concept of a gunshot wound held by most individuals, the bullet goes through the person like a drill bit through wood, 'drilling' a neat hole through structures it passes through. However, this concept is erroneous."


Whoever wrote that is an idiot. I don't know *anyone* who believes anything remotely close to that... and anyone who *did* believe that is a bigger idiot than the person who wrote it.

Your other analogies are incorrect, too. Raindrops hitting a puddle are nothing like a bullet hitting flesh, tissue and/or bone. You're talking low velocity impact of two like objects (water hitting water). The meteor crashing into earth is also incorrect because now you're talking about solid mass impacting solid mass. Deceleration is much more rapid in this case. Earth is much more solid than human tissue...

What you're failing to understand about your analogies is that none of these things, apples, puddles, the earth, are living masses connected by bones, muscles, tendons, nerves and feelings. They are prone to involuntary reactions, whether that reaction is ducking from the sound of a gunshot, or reacting to pain from being hit, to involuntary muscle and/or nerve spasms due to impact and/or damage from the penetrating bullet.

I only pull Zippy out on extra-special occasions... :hi:

[hack89]

11. Hydrostatic shock wave. nt

[sofa king]

18. Because the car was moving?

If the car was accelerating, the pieces would stop accelerating with the car the moment they were blown free, and would leave a trail along the trunk of the car.

Even if the car was not accelerating, or even decelerating, but still moving forward, the pieces would fall toward the trunk because the pieces' movement would be slightly slowed by air resistance.

The only way that chunks wouldn't fall on the trunk is if the vehicle were sitting still at the time of the headshot, which I believe is one thing alleged by some JFK conspiracy theorists. I don't see how that theory can square with the Nix film and the Zapruder film.

[undeterred]

19. There are no visible pieces on the trunk

although the film resolution is not very good. In the interview with Clint Hill, he seems to indicate that she was reaching for a piece of JFK's head, but it had fallen off the car into the street so she didn't get to it. The Secret Service agent who was driving apparently slowed down a little during the shots- possibly hitting the brake by accident.

The doctors at Parkland reported that 25% of JFK's brain was missing and that a piece of skull was hanging from his head, still attached to the scalp.

I am getting the imppression that the 'chunks' were soft brain tissue which may have landed on the trunk and then slid off into the street.

She had to have known at some level that nobody survives an injury like this, even if you pick up all the pieces. But it is an interesting gut reaction, to reach for the parts, even as he was dying.

[sofa king]

20. Yes, the debris isn't easy to see.

In frames z313 and z314 you can clearly see something that looks like a large piece of skull spin ten feet or so into the air, about fifteen degrees from vertical and going slightly forward. You would expect to see smaller debris radiating out, but anything smaller seems to be below the resolution of Zapruder's camera, and the Nix film is much worse.

http://www.jfkchat.com/zapruder/page_0012.html

[undeterred]

3. Thats what Secret Service agent Clint Hill said too.

She was trying to retrieve a piece of his head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCy3yqIOBI4&feature=related

[defendandprotect]

17. She was obviously trying to retrieve pieces of her husband's skull . . .

one piece having landed on the trunk of the limo.

Secret Service Clint Hill, who jumped onto the back of the limo, also made clear
that the back of JFK's head was blasted away and a good deal of it was in the rear
seat of the limo.

Jacqueline Kennedy made these wounds clear in her first words to the public --
she made clear what had actually happened to here husband.

The Parkland doctors made it clear -- the autopsists made it clear -

and your corporate-press has been lying to you since then covering up right-wing

crimes and political violence from which they benefit.

It's long been thought that Jackie, her children -- Ted and his children all lived
under threat to their lives.

And it is probably why the question of JFK, Jr's death in a plane accident is also
difficult to believe.