Can anyone explain this? I'm confused

[paulthompson]

I was sent this link today:

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

but most of it is Greek to me, as I'm not an engineer type. Interesting photos, though. But most interesting is this quote, which I guess comes from the 911 film made by the Naudet brothers?

If this is true, why haven't I heard more about this? Why isn't this all over the web? Can anyone confirm the sourcing of this? What does the below mean? Is it evidence of a bomb going off in the basement of the WTC or is there another explanation? What's the exact timing?!?


At about 6:45 am stationary engineer Mike Pecoraro went to the mechanical shop in the second sub basement, ate his breakfast and chatted with his co-workers who were also arriving for the normal 8:00 a.m. beginning of their shift. Mike’s assignment that day would be to continue constructing a gantry that would be used to pull the heads from the 2,500 ton chillers, located in the 6th sub- basement level of the tower. 49,000 tons of refrigeration equipment were located in the lower level of the tower. The 2,500 ton units were the smallest in use.

Deep below the tower, Mike Pecoraro was suddenly interrupted in his grinding task by a shake on his shoulder from his co-worker. "Did you see that?" he was asked. Mike told him that he had seen nothing. "You didn’t see the lights flicker?", his co-worker asked again. "No," Mike responded, but he knew immediately that if the lights had flickered, it could spell trouble. A power surge or interruption could play havoc with the building’s equipment. If all the pumps trip out or pulse meters trip, it could make for a very long day bringing the entire centre’s equipment back on-line.

Mike told his co-worker to call upstairs to their Assistant Chief Engineer and find out if everything was all right. His co-worker made the call and reported back to Mike that he was told that the Assistant Chief did not know what happened but that the whole building seemed to shake and there was a loud explosion. They had been told to stay where they were and "sit tight" until the Assistant Chief got back to them. By this time, however, the room they were working in began to fill with a white smoke. "We smelled kerosene," Mike recalled, "I was thinking maybe a car fire was upstairs", referring to the car park located below the tower but above the deep space where they were working.

The two decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine shop where Vito Deleo and David Williams were supposed to be working. When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.

"There was nothing there but rubble" Mike said. "We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press - gone!" The two began yelling for their co-workers, but there was no answer. They saw a perfect line of smoke streaming through the air. "You could stand here," he said, "and two inches over you couldn’t breathe. We couldn’t see through the smoke so we started screaming." But there was still no answer.

The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. "There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can’t see anything" he said.

They decided to ascend two more levels to the building’s lobby. As they ascended to the B Level, one floor above, they were astonished to see a steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds, wrinkled up "like a piece of aluminum foil" and lying on the floor. "They got us again," Mike told his co-worker, referring to the terrorist attack at the centre in 1993. Having been through that bombing, Mike recalled seeing similar things happen to the building’s structure. He was convinced a bomb had gone off in the building.

[paulthompson]

1. Could it be related to this?

I'd never heard about this bit, either:

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/may2004/050504bombsinwtc.htm

[John Doe II]

3. Bombs in the plane are assumed?

Interesting video!

[medienanalyse]

4. I am so confused, too

"We have dozens of reports from firefighters and others on the scene who witnessed bombs going before and during the towers' collapse"

I had expected that the WTC-towers would collapse seilently.
That they would collpase without any dust.
That the WTC-towers would fall horizontally into the neighbouring streets.

For sure the evil-doers on 9/11 were so kean to bring the WTC down that
- they first sent a missile out of the pod
- then they let the planes ecplode
- then some bombs inside the planes
- last not least they destroyed every flat, one by one, by small explosions
- then a final bomb

and so on.

NEVER - N E V E R a "bomb"sound could indicate the fall of parts of the flats according to the "pancake"-theory. As we all know this makes no noise - pancakes are not noisy and make no dust. See into your own kitchen: no noise, no dust.

For sure we have no CIA- redherring-layers but serious researchers who would never dare to ridicule the questions about "who did it" by so-called "physical" questions. Never forget: steel bends only when it melts. And melting temperature cannot have been reached. For sure. Except in every tiny traffic-accident, when miraculously steel bends.

I am so bored, Paul. Hope you do not "research" this idiot-shit.

[paulthompson]

5. Confused

MA,
Maybe it's that English isn't your first language, but you're just confusing me more. Are you being sarcastic? Can you give me a sarcasm-free reply?

[medienanalyse]

7. sarcastic-free

a "bang" is a bang.
Maybe a bomb. Maybe tons of concrete falling onto another concrete floor, adding the weigt of that floor, so that some minutes later some other "bang" will sound throgh the hollow elevator-tubes.

steel-cramps (holding the concrete floors in the steel girder) can bend at nearly any temperature and break too. No need for melting them.

I wondered and was confused that even you begin to speculate in this "physical"evidence bullshit. I cannot believe it.

[paulthompson]

9. I agree

If one looks into these eyewitness accounts, most of them can be dismissed as people misinterpreting things, like gas lines exploding, or effects of the injured building settling down, or the like. But if someone is talking about damaged floors in the basement, with walls gone and 50 ton objects obliterated, and then undamaged floors above that, I want to know more. Or if the Chief of Safety of the Fire Department says "there were actually devices that were planted in the building," then I want to look at that. I still reserve judgment, but these are things worth looking into, at the very least to clarify.

[vincent_vega_lives]

33. A 50 ton press does NOT weigh 50 tons.

It refers to the amount of pressure it can exert.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=475&R=475&cm_ven=TL&cm_pla=DF&cm_ite=metalfab

[paulthompson]

6. Transcript

I was just sent the transcript to the above from Lexis Nexus. Here it is. It's from the 11:00 a.m. hour, I think just before noon:

Pat, can you hear me?

DAWSON: Matt, if the--if we are--yes, I can, Matt. If--if there is a war to--war against terrorism that started--rather on-going right now. It started here at about quarter to 9 this morning, as you described, a big whole in the skyline at the southern end--the southern tip of Manhattan Island where the two World Trade Center towers have stood for the last 25 years, 110 stories high. They are no longer there.

Just moments ago I spoke to the chief of safety for the New York City Fire Department, who was obviously one of the first people here on the scene after those two planes were crashed into the side, we assume, of the World Trade Center towers, which used to be behind me over there. Chief Albert Turi told me that he was here just literally 10 or 15 minutes after the events that took place this morning. That is, the first crash. He said that at one point he had roughly 10 alarms--that would equate to roughly 200 to 225 New York City firefighters--who were in the building, this was after the crash, trying to rescue civilians who were in there.

Now earlier this morning on the "Today Show" we spoke to the director of the World Trade Center. He said that at that hour of the morning you could have upwards of 10,000 people in each of those towers. That would be 20,000 people total in each tower. The chief of safe--the Chief of Safety of the Fire Department of New York City told me that at--shortly after 9:00 he had roughly 10 alarms, roughly 200 men, in the building trying to effect rescues of some of those civilians who were in there. And that, basically, he received word of a possibility of a secondary device--that is another bomb going off. He tried to get his men out as quickly as he could, but he said that there was another explosion which took place. And then, an hour after the first hit here, the first crash that took place, he said there was another explosion that took place in one of the towers here. So, obviously he--according to his theory, he thinks that there were actually devices that were planted in the building.

One of the secondary devices, he thinks, that took place after the initial impact, was, he thinks, may have been on the plane that crashed into one of the towers. The second device, he thinks, he speculates, was probably planted in the building. So, that's what we have been told by Albert Turi who is the chief of safety for the New York City Fire Department. He told me that just moments ago.

Now we are continuing to hear explosions. We are continuing to hear explosions here downtown. And what we've been told by some of the fire officials is that there are some gas lines that occasionally are exploding down there because, obviously, as you can imagine, there are a lot of open gas lines down in the southern part of Manhattan where the World Trade Center towers use to be.

As far as the situation right here. Basically what we have are hundreds of New York City firefighters and other New York City rescue units who are massed here. There is a cordon down--just down there. We are not sure, to be honest, if some rescue workers have tried to go beyond that point as yet. When we spoke to the head of the port authority police--that would be the--the--the organization that is in charge of the World Trade Center building itself--the Port Authority police chief told us that they were, at that point, about, I'd say, 40 minutes ago, about to make a decision on whether or not it was safe to send emergency workers back in there. But the bottom line is that according to the chief of safety of the New York City Fire Department, he says that he probably lost a great many men in those secondary explosions. And he said that there were literally hundreds, if not thousands of people in those two towers when the explosions took place. He said everything above the 60th floor was extremely difficult to get to, as you can imagine.

[medienanalyse]

8. waht would you and me have said ?

we know:
1- there were explosions in the wtc in 1993
2. everybody epected new bombs in the years after
3. then we see planes explode inside the building
4. and then we hear "bangs"

Who wonders that people think in terns of "bombs" , in terms of "explosions".

tens of tons of kerosine exploded - but because of the disruption of the wings Not in the same time some tanks could spill kerosine into the lifts, partly inflamed. so some small fires were incended in the lower floors too.

There is nothing special which points to bombs. Nada.

[spooked911]

11. But can you rule OUT bombs?

Jeesh.

Don't be so narrow minded.

[medienanalyse]

18. to rule out bombs and about tp be old and in the way I cannot recommend

if an elevator seeks its way from the 67th floor into the basement. Even if I were young and in the way I could hardly stand if the counterweight falls down. Given the assumed situation that the elevators were packed in the morning - I would not like to be behind a door or a wall which is physically close to the impact point.

If I can rule out bombs?
No. For sure not. i cannot rule out herds of elephants in the 32rd floor tearing at a steel column. I cannot rule out caterpillars in the basement shovelling concrete walls from the right to the left.

To what avail? What is the purpose?

Even if the "pod" under F175 would have been a container full of warm ugly bullshit - and ma phantasies reach much more far -

WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT TO TELL US ?

You spend your time and energy and thoughts to whatever except to the one and only question: WHO DID IT ?

The "questions" talked about here are about the "WHAT" in a situation when you and me and the public in general are excluded from nearly every evidence. Instead of critisising the lack of evidence you do exactly what any murderer would like to be done - no search in his direction but stay at the location of the murder.

That is purposefull. Hello guys !

[flyarm]

66. you are extrememly igorant of the facts sir!!

how can you possibly know who did it if you do not investigate < how> the buildings came down?? airplane fuel burns at approx 550 degrees, no steal frame building has ever in history come down in a fire..in order for the steal in those buildings to fail according to m the man with ul who tested the steal it would require a temperature of approx 3000 degrees centigrade..

those planes and the fire from the fuel did not take down those buildings..and if you believe it did , i have swamp land available to you in florida!!

from a 33 yr flight attendant from one of the two airlines involved on 9/11.

fly

[vincent_vega_lives]

34. There is a big difference between

maintaining an open mind and holding on to a theory with no supporting evidence. The whole point of an investigation is to rule things out.

[Dancing_Dave]

39. You are very poorly informed about the explosions in the WTC!

You haven't read the hundreds of witness reports of multiple explosions in the WTC on 9/11, or studied the photo, video, seismographic and thermal evidence of them. You shouldn't try to talk about the issue until you are better informed.

[spooked911]

12. FWIW, Webster Tarpley says that the FDNY has shut down talk of bombs

in the WTC by the firemen. Jobs and pensions have been threatened.

Tarpley claims that part of this gag order is due to Jim Woolsey, who was hired as a terrorism consultant by the FDNY.

[Christophera]

26. SERIOUS: FDNY has shut down talk of bombs, If Courts Won't Hear it

If the courts won't hear the truth or allow other civil actions to use ALL public information when loss of life is an issue, the courts have lost their authority to do anything official at all. That idealistically speaking, but technically it is true.

A great deal of what is though of as "authority" in this nation has lost its authority and its immunity by failing to use "Official Discretion" something which is officially described as "always rightful and lawful". Why would we give authority if it wasn't going to be used rightfully and lawfully?

Beware; the law libraries, some for sure, have removed the old dictionaries that hold that definition, so the legal system et al. is working to lose their obligation to create a responsible civilization with; order, justice and reason.

So, the gag orders, ALL OF THEM, are worthless in an ideal sense. The best part of our Constitution and other founding documents are all about ideals, and putting them to use, meaning the present authority is false, illicit, and the truth is OURS.

Most mporatantly, we have to communicate to those whistle blowing heros, that we know how important their information is and want to protect them with our masses.

This issue deserves it own FORUM. It is that important for people in this democracy to work togther to seek, preserve and protect the truth.

[John Doe II]

2. Mike Pecoraro

I don't speak Greek but you'll find his account here:
www.chiefengineer.org/article.cfm?seqnum1=1029

Many ineresting witness accounts of bombs in the WTC are here:
http://www.gallerize.com/153%20WINDY%20TOWERS%20OF%209-11%20Four.htm

The link was provided to me by Ewing2001.

P.S. Maybe we should start a thread about theses accounts (combined perhaps with what the two firefighters said just seconds before the building crashed)?

[LARED]

10. Some explainations

2500 ton chillers refers to the cooling capacity of the machines. 1 ton = 12,000 BTU's. Machines of that capacity will be quite large,

A 50 ton press refers to the force the machine can place on an item. A 50 ton press is rather small.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Christophera]

14. Engineers & Verification Of Concrete Core

Here is a link to a page with contact info to an engineer who might confirm what I'm saying about the volumes of sand and gravel, the presence of gravel to begin with and probably has a large amount of information to do so with.

He may even know by know that the core was concrete.

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/WTC/astaneh-wtc.htm

[k-robjoe]

17. Have you been in contact with him? n/t

[Christophera]

35. Contact With Engineers

No I haven't. I've learned that almost everyone of any authority will not associate themselves with an individual approaching them. Fears of marginalization control most authority that stands for truth. Disinformation schemes exploit this fear.

In order to reduce alienation of this type I'm trying to get a group together that can voice a clear request by mututal understanding for the need of it.

From this thread I make a request for that support.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=35240&mesg_id=35391&page=

[OneMind]

15. RE: "Explosions In The Basement At Impact & More"

Christopher,

I read your website, and, with regard to the WTC, I believe you're on to something important. Suddenly, all of the secrecy about the original construction documents makes sense. I would recommend you contact the following two individuals because they have the contacts, influence and financial resources to make things happen:


1- Karl Schwarz, who is involved with the effort to persuade New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer to reopen 9/11, as well as the Sibel Edmonds case. He has a lot of insider information about maintenance problems with the WTC and Silverstein's motivations to purchase the lease for the express purpose of demolishing the buildings, including a reported 300% increase in the insured value of the WTC during June and July of 2001, as well as a Silverstein/insurance connection to Henry Kissinger (remember when * tried to appoint Kissinger as Chairman of the 9/11 Commission?).
http://www.karlschwarz.com/
(Pop Goes the Bush Mythology Bubble: Parts 1-6; Schwarz has more information than anyone about the financial shenanigans behind 9/11; Part V addresses the unidentified aircraft parts at the Pentagon)
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120404Schwarz/120404schwarz.html


2- Jimmy Walter, the person behind ReOpen 911.org (based in Santa Barbara, CA)
http://www.reopen911.org/
http://walden3.org/ (Jimmy's sustainable living site)


And, 3- You might want to try Jim Hoffman at: http://911research.wtc7.net/re911/contact.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/
http://911review.com/pm/markup/index.html

Hoffman's site is well respected, and he, like you, has come to the conclusion that something other than conventional explosives was used. Did you listen to his interview with "Guns and Butter?" I think he might be open to hearing what you have to say.
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/archives.php?id=13&limit=N Dec 15 2004



I would preface your detailed information with a VERY SIMPLE summary, perhaps one to three paragraphs, for example: "My research leads me to the conclusion that the buildings were designed for implosion during their construction in 1984,...." and so on.

I've looked at your website enough now to have a pretty good idea of what you are saying, but I still haven't grasped all of it. Even well-informed researchers might find your information somewhat challenging to comprehend during a first reading. And the first reading is important.

It's just a suggestion. Remember, you've been looking at and analyzing your research for months, and you know it inside and out. Approaching the ".orgs and personalities" requires that you make things as clear and simple as possible, especially for those who might have little or no background in structural engineering, building construction and so on.

Great work.

om

[Christophera]

32. Participate:I Emailed OneMinds Comment With Mine To 9-11 Leadership.

OneMinds post was of such a quality that it inspired me to try to gather more support for the scenario presented here;

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

where the FEMA lie is exposed and the towers demise is explained, all strictly according to evidence, and I made a page to preserve and consolidate support for the scenario.

To try and establish a new threshold for this concept I've made a place to facilitate ease of support with email links to what authority, albeit strictly social and not governmental, we can identify. Perhaps your simple expression of your personal understanding of what the concrete core scenario really means and that you can see by the evidence that the cores of the towers were indeed concrete.

Spread this around the 9-11activism world. If possible, to the most thoughtful, sincere and knowledgable persons that you know. Here is the page that has the message I sent to 9-11 leadership.

http://algoxy.com/psych/leadersof9-11.html

It is only by working together that we will gain the truth that we so badly need.

[OneMind]

16. Eyewitnesses' and Experts' Testimonies of Explosions/Demolition

The compiler of this collection states that he will continue to update it.

http://www.gnn.tv/blogs/4172/Eyewitnesses_and_experts_WTC_testimonies_consistent_with_allegations_of_deliberate_demolitions

[spooked911]

19. I looked at your site today, and all I can say is that it is fascinating!

I also think you are onto something very important. It sounds like you know your stuff.

I just read it over once, I'll have to reread it again.

Your info is so important I would really recommend changing the format of your demolition page so it is easier to navigate, also the text could be changed to highlight the enormity of what you are saying. Overall, you seem to have some incredible info there.

[LARED]

20. Do you make this stuff up?

Only lightweight concrete which has NO gravel is a part of the FEMA presented design.

Outside of the fact FEMA did not present a design, there were seven sub-floors in the towers. These used reinforced concrete, with normal aggregate.

The lightweight concrete is used on the floors in the tower. You claim to be knowledgeable about construction, so I wonder how you missed this basic knowledge.

[OneMind]

21. Status of the "collapse by fire" theory

Humpty dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty dumpty had a great fall
All the King's horses
And all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OneMind]

23. Agreed.

[LARED]

24. I'm sure that image is meaningful to

someone. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you posted it.

[OneMind]

27. Request denied.

[Christophera]

25. OBVIOUS: Material At Bottom, Stays At Bottom

This is obvious. The stationary engineers state there were explosions in the basement at the time of impact. Later the towers with the lightwieght concrete floors exploded in a tight series of delayed detonations.

Firstly, logically, obviously, material in the basement will stay at the bottom meaning all the gravel is at the bottom. Then when the floors detonate they leave their material on top of the pile. If there was no gravel above ground level that would mean no gravel would be seen until the bottom of the basement. In the photos tons of gravel and sand are seen. Some of it covers the streets.

Sand is not a major component of lightweight concrete. Vermiculite and flyash are and they comprise the huge billowy clouds and the material that floated for blocks from higher elevations which is why we see so much sand and gravel in the basement right under where the core was as the heavy particulate came more directly downward.

[LARED]

28. Huh?

The stationary engineers state there were explosions in the basement at the time of impact.

No they don't. They were in the basement and heard explosions. That does not mean the explosions were in the basement.

They could have been as it is well known that there was a fuel fire ball explosion in the lobby of the WTC.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LARED]

30. Darn, you found me out

Please don't tell on me

[Christophera]

31. Rubble And Missing Walls In Parking Area = Explosions

The below is very clear and there is another account stating the same thing for WTC 2.

http://jfk2wtc.tripod.com/

Stationary Engineer Mike Pecoraro, who was working in the sub-basement level of the North Tower, gives a harrowing eyewitness account of numerous ground and sub-basement level  explosions in the on-line publication Chiefengineer. For example, “The two decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine shop where Vito Deleo and David Williams were supposed to be working. When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone. ‘There was nothing there but rubble, ‘Mike said. ‘We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press ? gone!’ The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. ‘There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and youcan't see anything’ he said

[Dancing_Dave]

36. Mike Pecoraro is one of many witnesses to multiple explosions!

Mike gave this account to a building engineers trade magazine shortly after 9/11, and it is just one of very many accounts of multiple explosions in the WTC on 9/11...including major explosions in the basements early on. Try Googling "WTC Explosions 9/11" and you should be able to find hundreds of witness accounts of the explosives in the WTC...unless these have all disappeared since last I checked. ;-)

I'm in an email group composed largely of scientists, who have lately been discussing the site you mention. The site is a very admirable effort from a well-informed citizen, we all learned something about the construction and demolition issues involved. His contention that the Port Authority put C4 in the building during the original construction in very unconfirmed though. THE EARLIEST WE ARE AWARE OF ANY PREPERATIONS FOR DEMOLITION OF THE WTC BEING MADE WERE AROUND 1990, BY WHICH TIME THE BUILDINGS HAD PROVEN VERY UNPROFITABLE FOR THE PORT AUTHORITY. We have direct testimony from someone involved in a group hired by the Port Authority, that studied possibilities including demolition at that time.

However, an actual decision to demolish the WTC does not seem to have been made until early 2001.

[Christophera]

37. C4 Unconfirmed, But It Is The Only Way To Create Freefall

Yes, there are many different reports of explosions at the WTC, hundreds perhaps.

The very best one is this one. Completely credible authorities, courageous and thoughtful individuals to make this video for us.

http://www.9-11research.com/videos/docs/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg


On my site;

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

I do not state the port authority (PA) actually arranged the placement of C4. I do not believe they have that power nor access to C4. They did forbid any welders except for those with security clearance to make the butt welds.
It is quite possible the PA had to allow other government agency personel in the PA uniforms to act on site at the WTC during construction. That would be in their interest as it would insulate them. Compartmentalization is the real battle we fight in getting information today, so that it was controlled in that way then is safe to assume.

The C4 coated rebar is of course unconfirmed. However, if scientists are involved, the simple issue of free fall invokes a dilema; "How was it created?

Before we can face that question we should answer another so it's information can be used in the free fall question. "How was the cast concrete core reduced to the sand and gravel that was present at ground zero?"

Charges on the exterior faces of the concrete will do little to the concrete but blow out large areas of interior walls. I can literally see dozens of satchel type bombs placed on one floor and have NO effect on the structural integrity of the tower. At the base the core was 17 feet thick. Try blasting that from any external face and either you make a cannon out of the elevator shafts or you take out five or six square blocks on the side of the building you set charges on and then the tower falls onto them.

What we saw on 9-11 was what appeared to be a continuous series of sychonous explosions that matched the rate of freefall. The firefighters describe about a 15 millisecond delay in the floors detonating and that matches freefall.

In order to reduce concrete to its component sand and gravel particualtes, the explosives must be centralized in the concrete or grossly overloaded with explosives. Not only is centralization of the explosive needed but the explosive must be distributed optimally as well. Thsi is the only way to actually get the breakage of concrete seen at ground zero.

Free fall with steel columns:

A steel building has never collapsed from fire. Few have collapsed at all. The official core was multiple steel "core columns". To consider cutting full building height, one piece members of steel as large as is implied (do we actually have any dimensions except perimeter box columns and interior box columns?) is to describe a completely different explosion than we saw. Firstly there were near 50 column they say. It is known that there was little metal longer than 40 feet taken out of the celan up of the WTC. To get the FEMA colums into those sizes requires nearly 1500 cuts of heavy tubular steel.
Charges must be placed all the way around tubes with intimate contact to cut them. Most of the high pressure gasses of the explosion are reflected off of the dense metal into space, extra explosives is recomended.

What I've just described is a series of explosions quite larger than we saw, perhaps 10 times, and the long heavy steel columns would be visible in photos and they are not. Cutting steel is very inefficient with high explosives.

If studies for demolition were done on the towers in 1990 "paln A", then the van bomb of 1993 was the beginning of "plan B" or the one that was not in accordance with law but much cheaper with fringe benefits perhaps. It made opportunity for a remodel and established the WTC as a target for terrorism.
The molten steel in the basement was from thermite placed in sheets over inside surfaces and sides of the perimeter box columns and interior box columns during the remodel of the basement and first floor. It is basically known that the FBI had what could be termed a "supervisory role" in the basement bombing.
Thermite is actually the only possible way for the molten steel to be present and facilitated a much reduced cost in clean up as well as collateral damage to nearby buildings as materials remained centralized on the footprint when the bottoms of the ridgid steel columns fell out and the descending debris load accomodated to the maximum.

[Dancing_Dave]

38. What would have been the motive for C4

Being put in the Towers WHEN THEY WERE CONSTRUCTED?

We can contact some people involved in the design and construction of the WTC, and try to get some info relevant to the C4 hypothesis. But it isn't easy, and one must be very careful not to waste these peoples time, or one soon is getting no info from them whatsoever. If one has a clear verifiable hypothesis with plausible motives, then we should be able to get some info relevant to it from people actually experienced about the WTC.

Some intelligent people have proposed that scalar weapons or microwave lasers were involved in disintigrating the Towers, but so far no concrete evidence of these things actually being set up in lower Manhattan in 2001 has turned up. The Thermite blasts you mention have checked out quite well so far, more evidence all the time is pointing in that direction. Many strange aspects of the free-fall disintigration of the Towers make more sense when we you take into account such a massive heat source acting from the bottom up. There were state changes, melting and boiling, going on at the same time that the buildings were blown to smithereens.

But there was also a seperate string of blasts running down the building right at the time the Towers disintigrated. That string of blasts is very clear in many photos and videos.

Keep on Rockin' :yourock:

[Christophera]

40. Motive; Legit Demolition, Economic Reasons

I hear you about not wasting peoples time.

Check this evaluation process for determining WHEN it is time to consult with them, if you do.

1. Was the core cast concrete?

2. If it was concrete, how can it be reduced to sand and gravel with explosives leaving no large pieces

3. Determine optimum position and distribution of the explosives, compare this to the position of rebar in cast concrete.

I've assembled all the evidence I can find showing the concrete core existed, the same photos that show the concrete core show that the multiple steel core columns do not appear where they should. The sand and gravel volume calculations as they appear in the basement is a simple way to show there was concrete core. The presence of gravel itself shows high strength concrete was a major structural element of the building. FEMA shows there were none.

Digital delays would be easy to get mixed up to cause premature detonations. One, below shows a whole floor going off in a synchronous blast. The accounts of the floor evacuations I saw in the documentary (others have hard this) prior to pouring the lightweight concrete indicate the floor panels had C4 in the corrugations. Each was separate so a det cord jumper to get explosive continuity would be needed. With that scheme, one phone line per building face with the appropriate delay was enough to do all the floors

[Dancing_Dave]

41. It's a known fact that buildings in Asia have been built for demolition

There's one issue that's a lot more pressing over there than in NYC, which is the enormous damage sky-scrapers can do if toppled by a major earthquake. Being able to promptly demolish them can save many lives.

Of course, the kind of economic issues that ended up cornering the Port Authority are considered as well.

The main architecht of the WTC Towers was Japanese.

Somewhere on this planet, there are witnesses who can tell us for sure about this issue.

Thanks for the pointed questions, which may be very helpful as people who were involved in building the WTC are found.

[Christophera]

42. Oops! Here's the image of Premature Detonations

Got in a hurry with that last post and forgot to plug in the image. I'll try again.

Digital delays would be easy to get mixed up to cause premature detonations. One, below shows a whole floor going off in a synchronous blast. The accounts of the floor evacuations I saw in the documentary (others have hard this) prior to pouring the lightweight concrete indicate the floor panels had C4 in the corrugations. Each was separate so a det cord jumper to get explosive continuity would be needed. With that delay path scheme, one phone line per building face with the appropriate delay was enough to do all the floors



Certainly the later economic considerations with the asbestos prompted the leasing. For some reason I feel the Port Authority (PA) was used by higher levels, because they let it happen doesn't mean they know HOW what happened was effected.

Although in the documentary it did state that the PA built the foundations, high level government agencies can infiltrate lower, then influence them from the inside and the out, compel them to do things, change personnel, shift records, 30 years later it's just got a label on it. It is a practically autonomous, hidden group of people.

[LARED]

43. Opps that's a picture of

venting.

[Christophera]

45. Oops That's A Picture Of Concrete Exploding

Since there was no description of what exactly venting means, or aht is venting. I have to assume you mean that it is a pressure release through some windows because of the "pancake" effect compressing air inthe building.

If, in your obscurity, that is what you mean, sorry to disapoint you, that is light weight concrete blowing outward.

[Bolo Boffin]

49. Venting usually carries along material with it

Whatever's in that compressed air is going to fly out the window as well. So what you're looking at is concrete that's been ground up and is venting out due to compressed air shattering some windows below the visible line of the destruction.

By reflecting on that picture, you could realize that a lot more destruction is going on inside that building, but it doesn't require bombs to account for it.

[Christophera]

50. Not Compressed Air From "Venting":Logic.

boloboffin wrote: Sat Mar-19-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. Venting usually carries along material with it
Whatever's in that compressed air is going to fly out the window as well. So what you're looking at is concrete that's been ground up and is venting out due to compressed air shattering some windows below the visible line of the destruction.
By reflecting on that picture, you could realize that a lot more destruction is going on inside that building, but it doesn't require bombs to account for it.

How do we get enough air pressure to blow out windows and aluminum face wall with that kind of force?

Where are the facade components of aluminum and glass?

Why is that compressed air acting on windows 10+ floors below the advancing downward traveling debris and only on one side of the building and just part of the face?

How does that much concrete get mixed into the air 10 floors ahead of the crushing action?

The 4 above questions must be addressed to continue to reasonably assert that the below photo shows "venting"

EXPLANATION OF THE PHOTO:
The exploding concrete is expanding at such a rate of speed that it has shredded the aluminum and glass. What we are looking at has tremendous velocity and lightweight concrete, the composition of the floors, is vermiculite, fly ash and small amount of fine silica mixed with portland cement; does not have the mass to travel long distances so that velocity is very fresh or close to the explosion. The steel floor panels had C4 poured into the corrugations.
People remember the sudden mysterious evacuations of workers in the construction process just before lightweight concrete was poured. Yes, they remember.

Aside from that, venting is not a term that should be applied here IF air pressure had anything to do with what we see, which it doesn't. The competent term to use is "pressure relief" as venting implies a passive gaseous action coming out the top, not the side.

Clearly, what we see is not "venting", it is an explosion that is premature in a series of explosions where the timing between explosions is 15 milliseconds.

[LARED]

54. Yes, you are correct,

i mean the venting is the result of the collapse.

Yes it was lightweight concrete, wall board, insulation, glass, dust, cellulose, etc.

As the building pancakes and compresses the air the the other material inside gets mixed with the air and vent out of the building at a weak point.

Do you think the building was empty?

[demodewd]

47. calculations

Are you capable of coming up with some calculations to support your gravitational potential energy explanation of the events?

[Christophera]

48. Links To Known Asian Structures Built To DEMO?

I've had a number of people ask me if there was any history of explosives placed in building to facilitate their eventual demolition. Do you have any links to structures built in Asian countries that were built to DEMO?

[Dancing_Dave]

51. Oddly enough, you already gave one such link!

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001884.html

"We had a team of consultants hired by Otis Elevator to supervise and inspect all aspects of those commutators we produced for those motors. That were being made for the largest ever Twin Towers going up in Asia. Otis Elevator had the elevator contract for providing the elevators. The lead consultant engineer would always come into my gage calibration lab to watch and inspect my setting up and calibration of gages for measuring the components we were producing for the assembly of those motors. Most people who worked in the tool room, screw machine and industrial/refill departments knew (because they were making the parts) that we were manufacturing 4 or more very large commutators. But, they did not who the customer was or who they were for. Or what application they would be used in. Most of the other people in the plant had no knowledge whatsoever about was being made. All they did was make this part of something they had prints and shop orders for.

On day, as the lead consultant engineer was in my lab talking just about "stuff", I asked him, "Sometime in future, in 50 years or so, how are these Twin Towers are going to be taken down as tall as they were going to be and as tight as land is in a crowded city, without causing fast destruction to other buildings?"

He was standing upright. He outstretched his right arm with his palm down. And said, "Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam" as he lowered his hand down one imaginary floor at a time. All the way down to the floor. I knew that we had to certify these commutators to be able to operate continuously for 50 years without service or repair as our part of the contract. He explained that as the buildings are being built, explosive charges are being incorporated into the structures at key floor joint locations. So, that when the first charges are set-off at the top floors, they will take that floor down to the next. And the charges at that floor will take it down to the next floor. This will continue all the way down. The Twin Towers will come straight down like a stack of pancakes. When the buildings get old and no longer useful or profitable to have and maintain, all it will take is a phone call to take them down." ;)


I remember hearing some similar info from other sources, I'll try to get you some links to it when I get a chance.

I don't know one way or another about the C4 hypothesis yet. There is another possibility. The WTC Towers were designed quite flexibly to easily withstand hurricanes, aircraft impacts, minor Earthquakes, etc.--Japanese architechts are good at that! That could create some issues for concrete, which can crack. The coating on steel within reinforced concrete may have been aimed at resolving that issue. Flamability INSIDE these concrete assemblies would not be a problem--there's not significant free oxygen in the concrete for it to burn with.

But if ALL the explosives used in the demolition were highly thermal like Thermite, the steel carries the heat into concrete blocks which can explode and disintigrate as the water remaining in that concrete suddenly boils--and the concrete is subject to shock waves at the same time. With enough little thermo-explosive packets, you can do this on floor after floor all the way down.

[OneMind]

55. Christopher and Dancing_Dave

On November 16, 2004, Alex Jones interviewed Dr. William (Bill) Richard Deagle, MD, who was an occupational physician for Penrose St. Francis hospital in Colorado Springs in ’94 and ’95 and performed the exit examinations on the forensics munitions team that went from Ft. Carson to the Oklahoma City Murrah Building.

During an exit examination, one of the members of the forensics munitions team told Dr. Deagle the following: "We removed two baseball-size micro-nuclear weapons that were on the pillars of the building and a very large C4 pineapple that could have vaporized the building."

Later, continuing:

Dr. Deagle: These are forensic munitions experts for both chemical and nuclear and they went over to the Khobar Towers and he said, “The building wasn’t blown out by this load of ammonium nitrate bomb." And I’m a chemist as well. That’s what I did before I was in medicine. I was a biochemist and bacteriologist and I did some research in that area. And I said, “Look, ammonium nitrate, tell me.” And he said, “Well it’s one-seventh of the amount of ammonium nitrate that just blew the windows in the Khobar Towers building. The entire front of the building was sheared off.” And I said, “Where were these nukes from?”

(Full Article)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/161104deagleinterview.htm

[Dancing_Dave]

57. OMG.

We made some major progress on this thread after all. :yourock:

We now not only know that explosives were used to demolish the WTC Towers, we have a pretty good idea what explosives and where they had to be in the building structure. And U.S. Government agencies had to supply some of them.

Afterglow also accounted for...by those "baseballs".

Plus, some greedy bastards who had a hand in both the WTC and OKC jobs are about to be revealed.

Enough to blow your mind. Sweet dreams, everybody. :pals:

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Christophera]

61. Vaporizing Buildings? Nukes at OKC?

After seeing the photos of the inside of the OKC building, and the sheared concretre columns, a mini nuke is almost credible, but when a statment like "C4 pineapple that could have vaporized the building" comes along we have to examine the entire story.

It has been calculated that 14 tons of high explosives were need to to take out the WTC towers. That is only 200 LBS per floor if you figure the basement. If that is spread out over all the rebar in the core and in strips under the lightweight concrete of the flooring, that is like maybe 5, 5 gallon buckets of explosive. Very reasonable IF it is contained, and it is. Inside the concrete where huge pressures can develop.

In the OKC building it looked more like a normal bombing. The truck bomb in the street however is not going to shear steel reinforced concrete columns 80 and 100 feet away in a level line just above the first floor. In 1995 I was on the web searching OKC info and ran across some accounts of people who were inthe daycare center onthe first floor in the morning.

They stated that the bomb squad showed up around 10:00 AM and said they had a bomb report in the building and evacutaed the first floor for about 45 minuttes to search. When the people returned, some found foot prints on their desks and could see that ceiling panels had been removed and replaced, some not too well. The witnesses left for the day and later the building blew.

Basically the C4 pineapple can not "vaporize a building" thusly the entire Alex Jones interview has to be taken with a MAJOR grain of salt. We have to be very careful as there is a type of information that is OVER INFORMATION. In this case it is information that if used will alienate people because it is so outrageous. It causes much good information to be dismissed and sincere people to be marginalized if it is used.
If any kind of nuke went off in a US city, there are enough radiation detectors around so that people would learn and the common knowledge aspect of that would cause media to take up the story. We would know.

In order to shear the columns C4 could be placed on each side with a DET cord loop around it that is in turn tied into a DET cord circuit connecting all the columns together. That is all that is needed in order to effect what we saw in OKC. A simple vibration detector senses McVieghs truck bomb and the columns are sheared then the mass drops.

There is a secrete government, and they got rid of McViegh right away. His unconscious programming, memory control, may have broken and he might realize how he was used at any time.

[Christophera]

60. William Parrish:Otis ELEV. & Thermite

Yes, the William Parrish story is one of those. Here's one from a 9-11 discussion board.

I was in high school when the towers were built. And I recall it being explained to me that these modern "skyscrapers" were designed to be brought down safely at the end of their useful lives, with charges preinstalled throughout the building. I can't remember for the life of me where I heard this, and therefore can't prove that it wasn't just a rumor going around (like how the small crosses on Hoover Dam mark where workmen fell down into the concrete as it was being poured; untrue). But I know that I heard it. And I could almost swear that it was from a teacher, who was enlightening the class on this new marvel of modern technology/architecture.

The documentary on PBS I saw in 1990 said that the designers had specified the special plastic coating on the rebar for its "anti corrosion and vibration resistance" properties. This was a design change brought in very late, after bids were accepted and it created some big problems before construction schedules were ironed out at the 7th floor level.
When its' determined there was a concrete core, suddenly free fall is fully possible. All that has to happen is the fracturing of the concrete. In excess of that the concrete faces expanding is useful for ripping apart the heavy steel structure fastened to it. The C4 in the floors helps with severing the columns from the beams

We are familiar with the trial of the terrorists who were charged with setting up the 1993 van bombing in the basement. From that we learn that the FBI actually knew about the bombing and let it happen. I feel as though they knew that if the bomb was parked near the core it might reach the C4 rebar whereupon the entire building would become involved. The FBI allowed it to happen but caused the van to be parked away from the core. In this case the perfect excuse for a remodel was created as well as a history of terrorists targeting the WTC. During the remodel (through the 1st floor) the thermite was layered over the interior box columns that were available. I remember, the news actually referred to this as "fireproofing".

In all, the concrete cannot be turned into sand and gravel without being subjected to the UNIFORM pressures of high explosives and the basement can't have molten steel in it without thermite. It is just not possible.

After examining the evidence for years, I consider these absolutes because the materials were there in those conditions and there really is no way to explain them otherwise.

[Dancing_Dave]

62. 1993 remodel and Thermite

"During the remodel (through the 1st floor) the thermite was layered over the interior box columns that were available."

How do you know this?

Actually, it makes good enough sense insofar as the Port Authority already had plenty of economic motive to prepare for demolishing the WTC by then. I just wonder how you arrived at the certainty that Thermite was the exact material applied to box columns at the time.

[Christophera]

65. Thermite Is ONLY Material Capable To Melt Steel

Due to the presence of the molten steel in the basement in substantial quantities, themite must have been there. There is really no other possible way to melt that much steel, that fast under those conditions. And I do remember the news caster with a report on the remodel stating that special firproofing was added to protect from possible future terrorism. Ironic huh? The documentary of the construction and the "special vibration resistant coating", then the "fire proofing".

When I first heard of the molten steel on the news a couple of weeks after 9-11, I realized that the demolition was intended to be very thorough and save the maximum $ in clean up. Clearly economic interests were in control and had been so since before 1993. Your research is valid but of course inconclusive as to the Port Authority having culpability because of their studies.

Again, the reason for compartmentalization of government, science and academia is to control with the elimination of overlapping knowledge in the peoples possesion.

They also appear to control Arabs to a degree so it makes for a pretty economical demo if you can limit the expenditures of investigation. Investigatory expenses seemed to held at a minimum so 9-11 was a huge economic success. Undoubtably corporations all over the world took note and will be coordinating with governments on both sides of fences to get rid of aging infrastructure and justify wars.(excuse my sick humor, please)

[demodewd]

63. afterglow

Is the afterglow consistant with C4 rebar?

[Christophera]

69. Oop's! Correction: Robert Parrish+"skyscraper" Demo In Class

Here is another person commenting on another board who remembers being told that the towers were built to demolish.

getshorty911 wrote:
are you saying that the they put explosives in the towers when the were built 30 years ago knowing that 911 was going to happen?

I was in high school when the towers were built. And I recall it being explained to me that these modern "skyscrapers" were designed to be brought down safely at the end of their useful lives, with charges preinstalled throughout the building. I can't remember for the life of me where I heard this, and therefore can't prove that it wasn't just a rumor going around (like how the small crosses on Hoover Dam mark where workmen fell down into the concrete as it was being poured; untrue). But I know that I heard it. And I could almost swear that it was from a teacher, who was enlightening the class on this new marvel of modern technology/architecture.

[OneMind]

44. Christopher and Dancing_Dave

This article, The World Trade Center Demolition, from the wtc7.net site, includes interesting information and photographs, some of which are puzzling. Note the following: http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/WTC/wtc-demolition.htm

1. The photographic evidence indicates that, at least in some portions of the buildings, the floor joists connecting the core to the outer wall were steel beams, rather than double trusses.

2. One photo shows red and yellow stripes in/on the concrete flooring.

3. The structural/design includes gaps between (above and below) each 3-floor-spanning set of box columns of the perimeter wall.

4. There are two photos that include U-shaped beams, and in one of the photos, the "U" shape of one of these beams is filled with concrete.

-------------------


Christopher - Definition of Terms


I believe some are misunderstanding what you are saying because there is confusion about the terms you are using. When people hear the phrase, "concrete core," they believe you are saying that the core was a massive, hollowed out concrete rectangle without vertical and horizontal steel supports, and so they point to the interior columns (sometimes, you term these "interior box columns") and say, "What do you mean, 'concrete core?' Then, what are those?!"

Perhaps you could create a more detailed diagram, because the one that you're using suggests the idea of a massive concrete rectangle, created in a "marathon" pour and unsupported.

As part of the explanation of your ideas about the structure, it might be helpful if you defined the terms you are using, either in the beginning or as you talk about a particular structural element. Here are some terms, where clarification might be helpful:

1. Interior box columns (or "Core box columns") - You might want to give a brief explanation of the difference between typical steel-frame construction "core columns" and the "interior box columns" that you are talking about in this case.

2. Perimeter wall box columns

3. Concrete core

4. Elevator guide rails

Following is the clearest explanation by you, that I've read, of your description of what you believe to be the structure. In your description, you were were referring to the following photo:




Christopher writing: "What we see in the helicopter photos of the top of a tower are the heavy box columns that surrounded the cast concrete core. Just inside that is a trussed framework that supports the kangaroo cranes in each corner. It is raised up on fasteners that anchor it to the inside of the outer steel framework that comprises the exterior tube of the 'tube in a tube' construction that made the tower able to stand 140 MPH winds."

"Other designs having steel core columns failed in a 65 MPH wind because the building starts to 'fly' in the wind and twist because of it. The resulting deformations would cause failures. For that reason, Yamasaki's 'tube in a tube' having a rigid, steel reinforced, cast concrete inner tube, was selected for construction."

"The inner forms were breakdown steel forms that the kangaroo cranes would advance up, 40 feet per pour, on the inside of the core that had parallel faces. The outer forms were constructed of wood and supported off the inner faces of the heavy interior box columns that were carefully bolted to the concrete as the tower advanced upward in order to get the full benefit of the anti torsion aspect of the concrete core. The core was tapered on the outside 17 feet thick at the bottom and 2 feet thick at the top."

"What is often referred to as 'core columns' are actually the elevator guide rails. They were only seen in place before the core got off the ground or being lowered into the core for placement before the inner forms were advanced another 40 feet."

om

[Christophera]

46. Definition Of Terms & Core References.

Good point, I've sort of seen some of what you describe and find myself trying to clarify constantly.

I'm fairly careful to use the term "tube in a tube" and refer to the "tubular concrete core". Notice I never say, "concrete cores" because there was only one.

THERE WERE ONLY 2 TYPE COLUMNS MENTIONED IN THE DOCUMENTARY.
The perimeter box columns were one steel, vertical, component mentioned in the video and the interior box columns were the other.

The interior box columns were hand fabricated in the lower floors and not 14 inch x 14 inch until much higher in the building. They were 14 inches wide where they mated with the concrete core face but had a deeper dimension lower in the building coming outward from the concrete core forming a rectangular box. these were where the thermite was applied in 1993 to remove the columns, (the molten steel in the basement). As the floors went up this box column slowly went to being square. The worker in the below photo is cutting one from lower in the building.



The core was not a monolithic pour, only 40 feet of concrete can go in at a time. The hydrostatic pressure will blow out the forms if much more is added.

Below is a 14 inch x 14 inch interior box column from higher up in the building. A floor beam that went outward from the core goes up to the right from the square box column. From the upper left to lower right runs a beam joining the interior box column that was up aginst the core face between interior box columns. This supported the floor between floor beams at the ends.



Here interior box columns near the core are seen while they stand momentarily



I remember from the documentary that the interior box columns near the corners were thicker and so they stood more easily than those near the center of the cast concrete core walls. There is another image, fom much further, that shows four corners of interior box columns.

[demodewd]

56. afterglow?

How do you explain that afterglow?

[Dancing_Dave]

58. One Mind seems to have already answered the afterglow question.

See his references to C4 and mini-nukes in an inverview about the OKC bombing above. (Reply #55)

And there was one company involved in both of these deceptive events.

[MrSammo1]

52. Time to become

unconfused!

http://69.28.73.17/index.html

[Christophera]

53. If That Wasn't Such A Geat Idea, I'd .......

report your post for not explaining how you think that might be achieved?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Christophera]

67. Ok, Leasing Scams, Then Demo, Then War Econnomy

Good grounding in the history of economics in controlling interests. That all can be put in "motive areas" of the reasons Americans have to awaken to the threat of 9-11 unknown.

These factors need to be combined in summary with;
stock puts
corporate war profits

I know there's more but it gets too big and distracts from 9-11.

We have a severe leadership problem. Non profits have (0)(zero)( ),that much inspiration, group think mediocrity. Ugh, ..... that is why I've been pushing for people to get behind a formal competition for the most comprehensive scenario. Do it on the web, on the BB's just like we do now but get bunch of non profits for 9-11, peace, freedom, justice, environment, promoting it as a necessity for a civil society and all of their purposes.

First prize, you get to write part of a video depicting HOW 9-11, or a part of it happened in a credible fashion, unilike the official kark we suffer with now.

I talk about activism here some, post #24 and back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=35493&mesg_id=35737

[Christophera]

68. Explanation: Potential Unconfusion, Understanding

paulthompson wrote:

I was sent this link today:
http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html
but most of it is Greek to me, as I'm not an engineer type. Interesting photos, though. But most interesting is this quote, which I guess comes from the 911 film made by the Naudet brothers?
...........
If this is true, why haven't I heard more about this? Why isn't this all over the web?

Paul,

Great thread! As you can see explanations have been provided here regarding my web site and its information, here and all the other threads I've participated in. In translated Greek, there was a concrete core in the towers meaning FEMA intentionally lied about the building structure which logically makes all investigations and reports NULL and VOID.

An astute poster, OneMind, said it very well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=35330&mesg_id=35345&page=

OneMind wrote:

OneMind Mon Mar-14-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Rebar
The images that include, what is clearly rebar, are principal and compelling.
If there was rebar, there was concrete.

If there wa rebar there was concrete. The sand and gravel in the basement show concrete also. The images of the structure falling do not show the official, multiple core columns but do show a concrete core.

We, as a people, have the information we need to declare the investigation NULL and VOID!

To answer your other question

Why isn't this all over the web?

Since there was a concrete core, the only explanation for the sand an gravel is that explosives were perfectly placed and distributed, meaning inside the concrete, meaning they were placed at construction.

Meaning;
Our problem is real, and huge, and we should act immediately, but we have to agree and media didn't teach us how to do that. Nor did the schools, nor the churches.

Meaning it is not on the web because people are scared and confused by the truth, even the 9-11 movement.

In this case I only have three pieces of advice.

1. No Fear!

2. Think about love, then live.

3. If 1 & 2 aren't enough, then communicate.