Why Do You Believe Usama Bin L. Was Behind 9-11?

[DUreader]

The bush* Admin (Powell) promised the world a 'white paper'

would be released detailing the evidence.

Then they stopped talking about it.

Most people cite a single dubious video as their proof.

Is there something I missed?

Do you have links to any other evidence?

If not, why do you believe THIS conspiracy theory?

[tom_paine]

1. That is, of course, a perfectly valid point

Not one scrap of evidence, even of the sanitized variety, has EVER been shown to us.

The only validation was "Fat Osama" on the video tape and not only didn't he directly take credit for it, it wasn't even him!

We will NEVER know who did 9-11. But we can see who has benefitted the most from it.

[patdem]

2. Please re-phrase thusly:

"If not, why do you believe THIS conspiracy theory?"

Beacuse this IS a conspiracy theory..seems only the bad guys (we decide) are capable of a conspiracy theory!!!

[DUreader]

5. I capitalized, but I know not how to Bold

[patdem]

11. Check out the HTML lookup table just above when you post

Use < with the other side > to begin your HTML and to close your HTML...there is alot more than I know, but bold is to stop bold is

Same with italics and many other goodies..I am not sure how this will show because the [ symblol does strange things! Okay...checked it out I can now post.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. I've had my doubts for quite some time...

...the speed at which all of the hijackers were allegedly identified and blame cast on Osama Bin Laden made me think of how quickly Oswald's background hit the news media following the assassination of JFK.

[Sparkle]

4. Because Clinton said it was Osama.

n/t

[DUreader]

7. thanks

I am more interested in why people believe it than hearing

from other skeptics

[Maine-i-acs]

6. Sure as hell wasn't Saddam.

Usama set up the training camps and urged his followers to strike down America.

As conspiracy theories goes, I have an easier time believeing Usama was behind it than believeing that the BFEE was behind it (instead of LIHOP). 9-11 took some ingenuity to plan - grass roots ingenuity that the BFEE lacks.

[Octafish]

8. bin Ladens are longtime Bush family business partners...

From Peter Dale Scott's site:

More on the BCCI-bin Mahfouz-bin Laden Intelligence Nexus

It is clearer than ever before that the nexus of connections made by BCCI in Washington -- to US banks, law firms, politicians, and the CIA -- as well as of connections to top Saudi intelligence officials and members of the Saudi royal family, was preserved after the closure of BCCI in 1991, and was utilized later to fund Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda.

A key figure in the survival was the Saudi banker Khalid bin Mahfouz, from a prominent family with background and connections similar to the bin Ladens. After indictment in the US, Khalid bin Mahfouz paid $225 million, including a $37 million fine, to escape possible charges in connection with the disappearance of BCCI's assets.

In 1999 the Saudi Government bought out his stake in the huge Saudi National Commercial Bank, then forced his dismissal. After a financial audit of the bank's $21-billion assets, bin Mahfouz was placed under house arrest in a hospital. Some $2 billion of the bank's funds were suspected of being missing.

French sources have located Khalid bin Mahfouz and his family at the center of a nexus involving other firms owned by his family, the bin Laden family and members of the Saudi royal family. Some of these were oil companies, like the Saudi companies Delta Oil and Nimir Oil. Both are partners with UNOCAL in Azerbaijan, and Delta was a partner in UNOCAL's efforts in 1996 to build a pipeline through Afghanistan. Bin Mahfouz himself was named to the governing council of the Saudi oil giant Aramco by King Fahd in 1989 (Brisard 187).

CONTINUED...

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/q4b.html

[Bandit]

9. How about the passport?

The planes and buildings burned so hot that steel beams were melting but a lone paper passport fell out of the plane and landed on the street and it was a passport of one of Asama Bin Ladin's accomplices. Hatta I think the name was. I think Arlen Specter found the passport ( being funny)But that was the official tie that meant it was an Al Qaeda attack. Our great CIA and FBI in action.

[DulceDecorum]

12. Two passports

were found.
Flight 11
http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/passport.html
Flight 93
http://www.jihadunspun.net/articles/20030120-the.two.ziad.jarrahs/page01.html

More absudities at:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2002/08/38901.html

And speaking about those fierce flames,
see what they did to this:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=11
and this:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=140

Want Ripley's phone number?

[diamondsoul]

10. I don't, actually. I'm still wishing for some proof

of who was behind the attacks. I do believe Bin Laden probably helped facilitate them just because of some of the things that have been revealed of Clinton's warnings before leaving office.

They would have needed a lot of financial backing and Bin Laden has plenty of that.

[Abe Linkman]

13. Why THAT rich man?

"They would have needed a lot of financial backing and Bin Laden has plenty of that."

Well, that explains it then, I guess. I thought maybe if Clinton had just been honest about Mommica from the very beginning, none of this would have ever happened.

[Bolo Boffin]

14. Why I Believe Al Qaeda was behind 9/11

Osama talks about how they did it

Under the heading The Battlefield, click on the link U.S.: Bin Laden tape proves guilt. You'll see the MS-NBC story about the "single dubious video" with clips from the actual video, not distorted single jpegs of the video. It's clear that Osama is not fat at all in the picture. Voice recognition analysis and facial measurement analysis all confirm that it's Osama in the video talking about planning and carrying out the attacks.

Moussaoui indictment shows the detailed movements of the men who hijacked the planes - Al Qaeda operatives all

Here's a sample of the evidence the DOJ possesses:

     76. On or about August 22, 2001, Fayez Ahmed (#175) used his VISA card in Florida to obtain approximately $4,900 cash, which had been deposited into his Standard Chartered Bank account in UAE the day before.


     77. On or about August 22, 2001, in Miami, Florida, Ziad Jarrah (#93) purchased an antenna for a Global Positioning System ("GPS"), other GPS related equipment, and schematics for 757 cockpit instrument diagrams. (GPS allows an individual to navigate to a position using coordinates pre-programmed into the GPS unit.)


     78. On or about August 25, 2001, Khalid al-Midhar and Majed Moqed purchased with cash tickets for American Airlines Flight 77, from Virginia to Los Angeles, California, scheduled for September 11, 2001.


     79. On or about August 26, 2001, Waleed al-Shehri and Wail al-Shehri made reservations on American Airlines Flight 11, from Boston, Massachusetts, to Los Angeles, California, scheduled for September 11, 2001, listing a telephone number in Florida ("Florida Telephone #1") as a contact number.


     80. On or about August 27, 2001, reservations for electronic, one-way tickets were made for Fayez Ahmed and Mohald al-Shehri, for United Airlines Flight 175, from Boston, Massachusetts, to Los Angeles, California, scheduled for September 11, 2001, listing Florida Telephone Number #1 as a contact number.


     81. On or about August 27, 2001, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Salem al-Hazmi booked flights on American Airlines Flight 77.


     82. On or about August 28, 2001, Satam al-Suqami purchased a ticket with cash for American Airlines Flight 11.


     83. On or about August 28, 2001, Mohammed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari reserved two seats on American Airlines Flight 11, listing Florida Telephone #1 as a contact number.


     84. On or about August 29, 2001, Ahmed al-Ghamdi and Hamza al-Ghamdi reserved electronic, one-way tickets for United Airlines Flight 175.


     85. On or about August 29, 2001, Ahmed al-Haznawi purchased a ticket on United Airlines Flight 93 from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, California, scheduled for September 11, 2001.


     86. On or about August 30, 2001, Mohammed Atta (#11) purchased a utility tool that contained a knife.


     87. On or about September 3, 2001, in Hamburg, Germany, Ramzi Bin al-Shibh, using the name "Ahad Sabet," received approximately $1500 by wire transfer from "Hashim Ahmed" in UAE.


     88. On or about September 4, 2001, Mohammed Atta (#11) sent a FedEx package from Florida to UAE.


     89. On or about September 5, 2001, Ramzi Bin al-Shibh traveled from Dusseldorf, Germany, to Madrid, Spain, and did not return to Germany.


     90. On or about September 6, 2001, Satam al-Suqami (#11) and Abdulaziz Alomari (#11) flew from Florida to Boston.

All of these actions produced paper trails. Credit card reciepts, boarding passes, FexEx records...the list of evidence goes on and on.

Al Qaeda had a history of planning and carrying out attacks like the 9/11 attack

This is important because Bush was informed of this very thing. John Dean ably demonstrates that Bush must have known the character of the upcoming attacks in greater detail than is currently being admitted:

Note again that Rice stated, in explaining the August 6, 2001 Daily Brief, that it addressed Bin Laden's "methods of operation from a historical perspective dating back to 1997."

What exactly did it say? We cannot know. But the Inquiry's 9/11 Report lays out all such threats, over that time period, in thirty-six bullet point summaries. It is only necessary to cite a few of these to see the problem:

• In September 1998, the obtained information that Bin Laden's next operation might involve flying an explosive-laden aircraft into a U.S. airport and detonating it. (Emphasis added.)
• In the fall of 1998, the obtained information concerning a Bin Laden plot involving aircraft in the New York and Washington, D.C. areas.
• In March 2000, the obtained information regarding the types of targets that operatives of Bin Laden's network might strike. The Statute of Liberty was specifically mentioned , as were skyscrapers, ports, airports, and nuclear power plans. (Emphasis added.)

In sum, the 9/11 Report of the Congressional Inquiry indicates that the intelligence community was very aware that Bin Laden might fly an airplane into an American skyscraper.

And since the PDB addressed the MOs of Al Qaeda that day, the nature of the upcoming attack must have been clear to them.

This is the real point - exonerate Al Qaeda, and you're letting BushCo off the hook as well.

The trail of evidence that links Al Qaeda and bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks

So in summary, I believe bin Laden was behind 9/11 because he's on record as saying he was behind it, the trail of evidence shows that his associates carried it out, and it falls within a characteristic MO of Al Qaeda that they would attempt something like this. They had the motive, they had the opportunity, and they bragged about it after it was done.

[DUreader]

15. Thanks for an in depth reply

I am trying to watch the vid. now (downloading plug-in)


I had read FBI conceding the Identities of the hijackers were in

doubt due to several being alive and that they were dealing with a

stolen ID situation.

How does that affect your assessment of these associates of OBL?

[DUreader]

17. Sorry but I can't tell anything from that vid

Maybe I need high speed to see the high res. and that will

convince me.

Why not pull some other stills from the same vid that actually

look like OBL to prove it? (I'm not saying you should do this)

The stills I have seen just don't look like him.

[reorg]

20. German tv showed that english translation of video was incorrect

There are still a few links up with the article by Craig Morris, summarizing the German tv report on the video (ARD / WDR - that's the "first" program in Germany, comparable to BBC), which showed that the english translation of the conversation between whoever it is in this video was incorrect. The actual conversation does not prove foreknowledge of the attacks.

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-houston/2001-December/002619.html

[Bolo Boffin]

25. More links and screenshots

Screenshots that clearly demonstrate Osama confesses in the tape

Ludicrous commentary and that first shot on the first page is scrunched up to make Osama look as fat as possible - but look at other screen captures on the other pages, like this one:

http://www.welfarestate.com/wtc/faketape/fake-hands/

Fake hands, LMAO. And the distraction about his experience in gas fires? More twaddle - Osama's referring to his contracting experience in evaluating the structural capabilities of the WTC, not "gas fires". Still the site has more screenshots than I've found anywhere else. Clearly the man in the tape is Osama.

WelfareState is a very amusing little website, by the way. I'm linking only for the screenshots.

Osama claimed responsibility a month after the attacks

He says over and over that he did it, but some will explain away and argue up and down that he never did, he never did.

[crispy]

26. Uhhh

"Bin Laden: Yes, I did it" What a stupid, sensational name for an article that doesn't even include any confession of bin Laden's.

"In a previously undisclosed video which has been circulating for 14 days among his supporters, he confesses that "history should be a witness that we are terrorists. Yes, we kill their innocents"."
Ooooh, gasp! He confessed that he's a terrorist and he kills Americans! Big surprise there!


"The hijackers were "blessed by Allah to destroy America's economic and military landmarks". He freely admits to being behind the attacks: "If avenging the killing of our people is terrorism then history should be a witness that we are terrorists. Yes, we kill their innocents and this is legal religiously and logically.""

That journalist should be fired for describing the quote falsely. Nowhere in that quote, or in any of the other things they quote bin Laden as saying, does bin Laden take credit for the attacks. No doubt he saw them as a good thing. Most Arab fundamentalists do. They are touting the video as evidence that bin Laden did it, when all he did (according to the quotes in that article) was praise the attacks. Big woop.


> He says over and over that he did it, but some will explain away and argue up and down that he never did, he never did.

"Bin Laden has publicly issued four previous videos since September 11, always denying carrying out the atrocities."

[Bolo Boffin]

29. Didn't Bin Laden also deny being behind the embassy bombing?

It seems like he's maintaining a level of plausible deniability.

There's a level at which he didn't carry out these attacks: Osama bin Laden wasn't in the pilot's seat of any of the planes...so he "didn't do it" in that sense. And his denials can pretty much be truthful if seen in that light.

But Al Qaeda instigated these attacks, recruited those who carried them out, and planned how they would be carried out. In that sense, they "did do it." And that's all I ever mean by saying they did it. They planned the attacks and sent out the call for martyrs. It's a stronger culpability than Falwell and Robertson have in the deaths of abortion doctors.

We have plenty of televised evidence of OJ denying that he killed his wife and Ron Goldman. That doesn't mean he didn't do it.

[Old and In the Way]

43. Timing of the passenger lists.

IIRC, the manifests for the flights were released late in the day on 9/11. None of the hijackers appeared on them.

If the FBI hadn't yet determined who the hijackers were (obviously, they were incredibly quick ID'ing them after the fact), why didn't the names appear on the list?

I'd be interested in understanding that discrepancy.

[RH]

60. What was released was not the actual manifest.

Some passengers not suspected were also missing from early editions of passenger lists as published, the usual practice being to publish names only after their next of kin has been informed.

At a later stage the separation of passengers and hijackers was diplomatic; from what I can gather that's exactly how the passengers' next of kin wanted it to be.

The hijackers' seat numbers were published.

[Abe Linkman]

65. More speculation & a bogus videotape, but not one bit of proof.

You really expect people who've studied the subject to believe that a caveman in Afghanistan is behind 9-11? You have never provided one bit of credible evidence to back up your conspiracy theories.

Instead, you've relied on a bogus videotape and one of the most well-known liars in Washington (besides bush).

Why should we accept your obviously unsupported conspiracy theories? How would you know whether or not OBL is telling the truth on the bogus tape you keep referring to? Provide a link proving that OBL is as credible as Ted Olson. Then, maybe we can get beyond mere speculation and prepackedged spin.

[VermontDem2004]

16. I don't know

But I don't think I am being told the truth about what really happened on 9-11.

[Abe Linkman]

19. You ARE being told the truth about what happened on 9-11.

The question is: Which version of it do you believe?

1.) Osama & "The Boys" did it from a cave.

2.) NOT OBL.

[Abe Linkman]

18. Osama Was Behind it all right. Way, way way behind it.

So far behind it, he wasn't even aware of it until one of his aides cranked up the TeeVee there in the Great Room of the cave house and heard the news that made grown rich men cry...with joy and anticipation.

[DulceDecorum]

21. Osama: Aghanistan's answer to Pretty Boy Floyd

He was so well liked that when he decided to knock over the bank in his own home town, Sallisaw, he informed his family and neighbors in advance. Kids, mothers, fathers, aunts and uncles, those on scooters and on walking canes turned out in a picnic mood and sat across the street under the shade of the boardwalk to view the action. Among these was Choc's grandfather. The bank president thought Choc was putting everybody on until his car pulled up out front the bank to the cheers of the spectators. "No offense," he told the surprised gentleman inside, "but, hell, I'm sure you wouldn't mind making a little contribution to the community."

Law officers and lawmakers remained unimpressed, however, with his charity or his sense of humor. Eugene Gum, secretary of the Oklahoma Bankers Association brought together an assembly of peace officers to meet with Adjutant General Charles F. Barrett and the governor on January 15, 1932. Through the association, a reward of $6,000 was put up for the capture of Charles Arthur Floyd, dead or alive.

The state's Bureau of Criminal Investigation led county sheriffs on a merry chase from town to town; they were loaded for bear. The posses accomplished nothing, except to give The Daily Oklahoman a belly laugh. It reported: "The quest for 'Pretty Boy' Floyd has become humorous, or less. He is reported seen at both ends of the state at once. Every town, every day, gets some report to his whereabouts, but he is not there when police arrive...If this tiresome hunt goes on much longer the public will be convinced bank bandits escape either through tribute or through fear on part of the police officer."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/outlaws/floyd/4.html?sect=17

HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF

Charley Floyd was a victim of the Kansas City Union Station Massacre and would pay for the crime later in blood even though he wasn't even involved.
http://www.johnniedillinger.freeservers.com/photo3.html

Eighteen months after the massacre, Egypt still has not given Switzerland a final report.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/343207.stm

[leftofthedial]

22. no idea

I doubt he had an active role in any planning

his organization certainly didn't act alone (to the extent they were involved)

[Abe Linkman]

23. What would that extent be?

"to the extent they were involved"

"his organization", that is. btw - why do you say "his" org.?

[Bolo Boffin]

24. I believe that Al Qaeda is Osama's organization

...because he is the most visible member and the organization obviously revolves around him.

[Abe Linkman]

31. Then why was the CIA visiting him in the hospital?

What was the purpose of meeting with that horrible "crazy Arab" head of a terrorist organization? Finalizing some leftover business from back in the days when Osama was "our boy"? He WAS, not IS our asset, right bolo?

[Bolo Boffin]

32. No evidence that any meeting occured, is there?

Please note: "crazy Arab" is your term.

And don't you have a question of mine to be answering?

[Abe Linkman]

33. Plenty of published reports of CIA station chief meetings w/OBL

If they're inconvenient to your purposes, then I can understand why you would want to try and suggest they never happened.

[Bolo Boffin]

34. You got nothing.

If you had something, you would have linked to it, Mr. Linkman.

The only thing I've ever seen any published report use is "sources in French intelligence".

And every story I've seen said that the CIA denied it, the hospital in Dubai denied it, and Osama denied it. The hospital denies Osama was even there. No videotapes of the meeting, no witnesses coming forward to describe the meeting...all you got is an allegation from a rival intelligence agency.

There's a rumored meeting between the CIA and Osama in Dubai. That's it. It's not worthwhile evidence to help us understand the truth of what happened on 9/11. It can only cloud the vision. It has all the hallmarks of classic disinformation.

But then that would make you someone spreading disinformation on the DU boards, wouldn't it, Abe? Why would you do that, one wonders?

[Abe Linkman]

35. Well, if the CIA AND boloboffin denied it...it must be true.

n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

36. QED

n/t

[TolstoyAndy]

37. 31 Oct 01 - Le Figaro

It was reported on 31 Oct 01, in the French paper Le Figaro.
I remember reading it that day.

I didn't save a copy and am too lazy to go get one, but Google on these terms:

CIA Osama Dubai "Le Figaro"

got 2130 hits. Maybe one of those might have a link.

For further wrenching of the works, I believe Le Figaro is part of the Carlyle Group's media empire! Go figure.

Folks, let's remember that even if * didn't make it happen, he let it happen. He was warned and chose to go on vacation. Ashcroft stopped flying commercial air in July, SF mayor Willie Brown was warned not to fly that day, etc.

MIHOP is not necessary when you have LIHOP or even LIHDTI (Let it happen due to incompetence/indifference)

[Bolo Boffin]

38. The Le Figaro's only source of information

...is the French intelligence community, which is what I've been saying. All other reports of this meeting stem from this single article with a single source.

It's unsubstantiated rumor.

[Abe Linkman]

39. Now, if it was U.S. intelligence, that would be different; right, bolo?

Anything from U.S. intelligence is the Gospel Truth, but unless it serves a certain agenda, information from the Intelligence services of a European country is not even worthy of consideration.

Consistency; thy name is boloboffin.

[Bolo Boffin]

40. French intelligence is incapable of lying?

And I've never said that anything from US intelligence is the Gospel Truth. You're lying to say so.

[Abe Linkman]

41. U.S. Intelligence/disinfo agents: incapable of lying?

I've never said that anything from French intelligence is the Gospel Truth. You're lying to say so.

[Bolo Boffin]

42. And thus we return from your evasion to my point:

I suggest to you that French intelligence (or any intelligence source) may have its reasons for released unvetted information, that the alleged visit between Osama and the CIA ever happened.

Only those who want to believe will take this information uncritically; the rest of us will continue to avoid the sinking sand.

Please don't go on about prior ties between the CIA and Osama; I'm not denying that. Only this recent meeting is denied, for lack of evidence.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reorg]

27. a very dubious entity indeed

I understand that "al Qaeda" means "the base", for Arab mercenaries in Afghanistan.

Never saw anything resembling proof that it is or ever was an "organisation".

It was alleged in a German court that some Arab students living in Hamburg (Atta and others) had visited Afghanistan for two weeks or so in order to take shooting lessons / get "military training" at "the base", some time before they went to the US.

It was further alleged, by eyewitnesses, that some of these Arab students saw and/or talked to Mr. Laden.

That seems to be the extent of evidence presented in court regarding the connection between these students, the Afghan "base" and Mr. Laden.

[Abe Linkman]

28. You're ruining the Official Story Conspiracy Theory

First, there was the debunking of Ted Olson's lies about his wife(?)
calling him to give him the absolutely essential fabrications needed to "set up" the Official Story, and now THIS.

If Ted Olson was lying and there's no such thing as an organized "base" run by OsamabinCarlyle - then the whole story may well be suspected of being nothing more than a coverup for what really happened on 9-11.

About the only good that can come from this news is the extension of contracts with PR firms to "keep on rockin' & spinnin' me baby".

[leftofthedial]

53. Al Qaeda is a mostly imaginary group

It is "his" only in that he has been labelled as the head of this group.

The "extent" of their involvement was to be scapegoats.

sorry for the slow response. I don't come to this forum often.

[number6]

30. It was ....

Tony "Fat Osama" Bin Lah-din

er no wait Shiek Kaleed Patsy Mohammed...

ummm noo wait it was Saddum Who-sain ... WMD man ....

errrr I don't know .. the boo..gee man ???????

[Old and In the Way]

44. Over 2 years and not one member of "Al Qaeda" has been

brought to justice. Germany just let's one of the terrorists on trial go free because the US won't cooperate on supplying Moussarri for cross-examination. We'd rather let terrorists go free than discover the root cause of what happened on 9/11.

This administration has a degree of complicity, the question is how much and how pro-active. Butthey stymie investigation on national security grounds while committing millions of dollars and destroying thousands of lives in the name of fighting "terror".

Something really stinks.

[Abe Linkman]

45. What makes you sure it was a terrorist?

"Germany just let's one of the terrorists on trial go free"

How do you know the person is a terrorist?
Are they talking about bush?

[RH]

46. Mounir el Motassadeq

was convicted in Hamburg last February

Motassadeq himself admitted that he had been trained in an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.

:spank:

:hurts:

[Old and In the Way]

47. Well, that blows my whole argument.

How could I have forgoten about that? I guess that wraps up the 9/11 story. Justice was served....

[reorg]

48. not so quick, please: Mottassadeq's release may be imminent

The trial of Mottassadeq is up for revision. "Der Spiegel" predict he will be released from prison before Christmas.

(only in German yet) http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,278211,00.html

According to "Der Spiegel" this is due to the same bits and pieces of information that led to the release of Mzoudi (and his upcoming acquittal): the testimony of alleged terror organizer Ramzi Binalshibh who said that both Mottassadeq and Mzoudi knew nothing about the attacks.

Since there never was any substantial piece of evidence to the contrary -- yes, Mottassadeq "admitted" a visit to Afghanistan, where he and some friends were given shooting lessons for two weeks, and there was this neighbour who allegedly overheard him saying his friends were planning "something big" ... basically, however, his conviction rested on two assumptions

1. That Atta and consorts actually were the perpetrators of the attacks (unproven and even unquestioned, an issue that was actually never even raised by the Hamburg court)

2. that it was "unrealistic" to assume someone as "close" to Atta as Mottassadeq would not have known about the attacks ...


But now, giving the US administration the benefit of the doubt, the German courts have a third assumption to consider: there may be something to the testimony of Binalshibh ...

Since there never was any substantial piece of evidence presented to the effect that Mottassadeq was involved in a terrorist attack in the first place, and since he was convicted to 15 years in prison nevertheless -- for filling out a few money transfer forms -- one should hope that this travesty of justice may soon be reversed and Mottassadeq acquitted.

[leftofthedial]

49. bin laden did it this i know

'cause the bushies tell me so

and the tv wouldn't lie

'bout who made those people die

yes bin laden did it

yes bin laden did it

yes bin laden did it

for the bushies tell me so

[WilliamPierce]

50. Regarding Atta's passport

I think Atta passport is made of stronger material than the plane's blackbox.

How conveeeeennnient!

[RH]

51. "Atta's" passport?

Satam Al Suqami

See message #12

or

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/passport.html

[cowpie]

54. the passport is nothing

There were also papers fluttering all around the buildings. I wonder how they escaped the fire? Face it guys, this dog is not going to hunt. Can we perhaps talk about some real issues?

[DulceDecorum]

55. We wanna talk about this stuff

And we are gonna talk about this stuff
even if you tell us not to talk about this stuff.
Capiche?
This is the 9:11 Forum and that is what we do around here.
Now, back to business.

Aside from the idiocy of any suggestion that a passport would survive a plane crash that is allegedly so severe it destroys the virtually
indestructible Black Box, we are also led to believe that the passport
"flew away", out of the hijackers pocket, down a few blocks from the WTC grounds.
Why a few blocks away? Could it be because it was a place out of
everyone's sight?
It is also well known that paper was strewn all over the scene of the
plane crash. This was due to the sudden shattering of the windows which would immediately eject all paper materials out of the building before incineration. A passport in someone's pocket who is sitting on a plane that explodes will suffer the same fate as the person whose pocket it is in, and the plane they are sitting in:
absolute cremation.
United Airlines flight 93 crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. There
was no explosion and no impact into a building and no 100+ story towers crashed down on top of it. Yet, we are led to believe that both of its Black Boxes were destroyed and/or damaged beyond use as well.
Other airline tragedies also reveal that in each and every case the
Black Box is recovered, albeit damaged, but with full usability. Such crashes include EgyptAir flight 990, a 767, and TWA flight 800, a 747. Both crashes resulted in tremendous compromise of the planes physical integrity, but in spite of this the Cockpit Voice Recorders were recovered.
So we have established that the survival of a passport of someone in an exploded plane is lunacy. However, for the sake of argument lets say the passport survived. If the passport did indeed survive then so did the Black Box. If the Black Box did indeed survive as we have proven beyond a shred of doubt, then why the complete and utter lie that it was damaged beyond use?
What are they hiding?
http://www.geocities.com/IslamAwareness/WTC/FBI.html

[cowpie]

56. Where is your evidence of this?

Have you tested your hypothesis by crashing planes into towers repeatedly and seeing if the passports can be jected from the explosions as often happens with explosions? If not, you are speculating, nothing more.

[leftofthedial]

57. where is your evidence for this?

Have you jumped off the top of a 50-story building? How do you know you would die? You have to try this, otherwise you are speculating.

Bah.

[RH]

58. Have you jumped off the top of a 50-story building?

Perhaps not but others have.

With what previous instances then would you reasonably and reliably compare the WTC impacts?

:silly:

[leftofthedial]

59. any of the several hundred plane crashes

that have actually occurred.

:goofy:

[RH]

61. I see.

To know what happens when you junmp from 50 stories it would suffice to fall from any height from any building; is that the gist?

Beware that if put to a vote you may rather be obliged to perform the full experiment.

:nuke:

[leftofthedial]

62. what are you even talking about?

your post in this thread seems to be a non sequitor

[RH]

63. The judicial invalidity

of an irrational argument.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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