Concrete Core Of Towers, USENET Comments Show Many People Know Of Them.

[Christophera]

This thread is about our information and those who try to make it go away. It is about an exchange that has taken place in the last day or so in this forum. It is an example of behavior that defies reason over and over but never has to be accountable.

At the below link spooked9-11 makes a comment in the thread titled "City to Release Thousands of Firefighter Oral Histories of 9/11 Today", by philb about how those who support the official story who post on this board have not commented on the massive evidence by witnesses that use the words "explosion" over and over. His post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=51793&mesg_id=53064

I then try to explain this as being due to cognitive failure, fear or an intention to disrupt and distract the discussion, sabotage of subterfuge.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=51793&mesg_id=53085

LARED then posts this which attempts to define the photographically documented fact of the rectangular, tubular, steel reinforced concrete core, as a fantasy and implies that I am conducting subterfuge.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=51793&mesg_id=53110

Whereupon I post a link to usenet comments that have been found by people who saw the towers being built or had other reason to know about the design and construction of the towers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=51793&mesg_id=53144

Which has a link to the usenet comments that have been copied and posted on the net by another 9-11 truth seeker who saw my page and did the search.

http://cosmicpenguin.com/911/chrisbrown/corerefs/index.html

The comments describe the tubular central cast concrete core of the tower. Since the below photo of WTC 2 cannot be used to support the official description of the core because NONE of the supposed 47 steel columns protrude in anyway from the core area, the multiple steel columns did not exist.



What existed was the concrete core, and searching the usenet for comments about it will show the comments copied and consolidated at the link above will show many people know it.

Question now how such manipulative behavior should be addressed by a sincere group of seekers of truth when they when they have totally, for many months, failed to reasonably define how the official core columns existed with raw photographic evidence that dynamically shows that the core must have been concrete.

My site,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

has been hacked, or something, and is not available at the moment.

[rman]

1. why is your site now password protected?

[Christophera]

7. I Tried To Change Permissions On 2 Directories & The Next Day ....

someone had accessed the site and changed the permissions on the main index page, something I definitely know not to do if I want people to access the site.

No matter what I try the actual permissions do not change. I would imagine that there is pressure on pair.com, the owner of the servers to shut the site down. When I messed with the permissions was a good time to overide and have the activity disguised.

[LARED]

2. I implied

Cognitive Failure, Denial, Or Subterfuge as possible cause of the concrete core fantasy. Please be correct.

[seatnineb]

3. Concrete core believers................

At the heart of the structure was a vertical
steel and concrete core, housing lift shafts and
stairwells. Steel beams radiate outwards and connect with steel
uprights, forming the building's outer wall.
http://www.blythe.org/nytransfer-subs/2001-Environment/Gallon_Environ.Letter:_Engineers_on_WTC_Collapse.


The World Trade Center towers were designed as tube structures. A tube structure building gains its strength from tightly spaced perimeter columns which provide wind resistance. The perimeter steel column are braced laterally by 40,000 square foot diaphragms of concrete and 60 foot horizontal steel trusses that extend from the concrete core <3>.
http://www.pitt.edu/~sjf13/event.html


The twin towers of the World Trade Center were essentially two tubes, with the north tower (1,368 feet) six feet taller than the south tower (1,362 feet), and each were 110 stories tall. Each tube contained a concrete core, which supported only the load of the central bank of elevators and stairwells
(Snoonian and Czarnecki 23).
http://www.unc.edu/courses/2001fall/plan/006e/001/engineering

[rman]

4. doesn't jive with WTC construction photos

(which i shall post here shortly)

[Christophera]

6. The Construction Photos Show Elevator Guide Rails & Box Columns

The constrcution photos have been carefully filtered over the years to eliminate any that show the core. This was easy because the core was very hard to see.

Because I saw the video I know exactly how the core was constructed. The demolition photos show the core better than any except perhaps for this one photo, so endeavor to find the 1300 foot long core columns there. There were 47 of them so if they were there, the supposed full height colums would absolutely be visable in the demo photos somewhere.

Here is one construction photo that silouettes the core.



The vertical lines of light in the center is from the hallways. I'm not sure of the distribution of the hallways but this is the south tower and the core of the south tower was oriented north and south so we are looking at the side and doorways there on the right side. We can also see through doorways into hallways that run the long axis of the core in a north, south direction.

The interior of the core was formed by a breakdown form made of steel. Steel leaves a very smooth and reflective surface on concrete when it is used a s a form, making a surface that would reflect light inside the rectangular, tubular core.

[rman]

10. most notable

the construction photos show a core structure that takes up a much larger area then the concrete core shown in certain drawings (same drawing that say 800 degrees celcius is enough to melt steel...).







http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/sk/wt/cp/

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The beautifull sunset photo in your post does imo not show a single (solid?) concrete core. It shows a core structure that's more extensive then the one core shown in certain drawings.

[Christophera]

16. Core Was Rectangular Tube With Openings For Hallways,Use DEMO. EVID.

Image 1 & 2 don't have the needed contrast to define anything.

Image 4 is the heavily trussed crane platform that traveled the entire building height poised in various ways or dismantled, depending on the phase.

In this phase the interior box columns are two floors over the top finished floor and the crane platform: which was probably about 4 floors as the concrete pours were limited to 4 floors and the original construction sequence allowed only 4 floors of outer tube, the heavy steel framework, to be completed above the concrete core, the inner tube of the "tube in a tube" construction, that was cast inside the inner faces of the interior box columns: is visible, bases of cranes seen there, at a height of perhaps 3.5 stories.

You see the same exact structure over and over in the construction photos, but it takes people with experience in construction to recognize this.



No where in there do we see the uniformity of vertical elements needed to say for sure there were multiple steel core columns in all the construction photos you can find. They also are never seen in the demolition photos. Together these factors are conclusive.

In the below photo we can say for sure there are no multiple steel core columns. And if you know what a core is and what steel columns of that length perform like (noodles), and if there was the kind of trussing seen in the crane platform, it would all be visible in this photo of the demolition of WTC 2



Or it would be seen behind the spire to the right of it.



The core shown here,



cannot be taken as continous core columns, the vertical interruptions do not compute with steel structures. There's no sign of truss work. How can there not be vertical slivers of light if there are multiple steel columns that are continuous.

Very close inspection will show a complete floor separating rectangles of light made by doorways.

[LARED]

11. You believe the

constrcution photos have been carefully filtered over the years to eliminate any that show the core.

The towers were build over thirty years ago, so most of the construction photographs have to be from that era. Given this, who exactly is removing the construction photos from the public domain for the last thirty years without anyone noticing?

Please enlighten me.

[seatnineb]

8. What about people inside the towers.......

From: j_montev@...
Date: Mon Sep 17, 2001 5:25 pm
Subject: Personal Account

This is a personal account of a friend of a friend's... very detailed... I take no responsibility for anything said in it or the authenticity of it.


"Apparently no one else knew where the stairs were either. Luckily, we found them quickly, entered the solid concrete stairwell, and began our descent. It wasn't quite as smoky in there, but there was a slight haze. The square plastic sign on the wall read "28th Floor".
This is going to be a long, long walk... The first
four floors seemed to go by very quickly, but we hit a
major bottleneck as we got close to the 24th. In fact,
we came to a total standstill. I could see that the
holdup was due to the fact that people from the 24th
were trying to make their escape into the stairwell
too. White smoke seeped in slowly through the open
door, and it was getting harder to breathe in there by
the minute. I looked around at the pure concrete
surrounding us. God, we've got to get the hell out of
here... if this place caves, we're in big trouble. I
was counting the minutes.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PASCDiscuss/message/7

[rman]

9. sure there was concrete

but mention of concrete does not make for a concrete core

[seatnineb]

12. The photos you have shown also show NO concrete on the floors.

So is it not a question of when the concrete was applied (to both the floors and core).

[rman]

13. I think concrete was applied to the core

as material for walls.
But imo that doesn't make it a steel-reinforced concrete core. The steel structure did all the load bearing, and the core as such didn't look anything like in this drawing.

[seatnineb]

14. Agreed...........that diagram maybe innacurate.................

Have you seen this?



(2) The concrete core acted as the building's vertebrate. But it only carried the dead load of the elevators and stairwells within. In both towers, the planes came very close to crashing directly into the core. Any closer, and the buildings would have collapsed in no time.
http://www.ncusd203.org/central/html/what/torsbergweb/2 ... .

[rman]

15. that looks more like it

it confirms that it was the steel and not the concrete that held the buildings upright.

[Christophera]

19. Careful about "All Or Nothing" Thinking: Overgeneralizing

rather than understanding.

The exterior box columns 14 x 14 inch spaced at 22 inch intervals sup
The important thing is to justify belief in the FEMA lie by seeing that there are no steel core columns where they should be in the demolition photos.

[seatnineb]

26. Mate!.....That is the point!

Because as far as FEMA/NIST/ASCE is concerned....there was no concrete core.

Period.

And Christophera is right to accentuate this discrepancy.

[rman]

27. Christophera seems to think there was no steel in the core

except as "reinforcement". That suggests a reinforced concrete core carried the load of the towers.

I think it is confusing to speak of "the core" when referencing the concrete encasing of the elevators and stairways (i'm not pointing to anyone specifically for the use of that term). To me "the core" is the steel structure that served as the main load bearing element of the towers.

[Christophera]

28. The Core Was Anti Torsion: Check Engineering History For Load Distribution

One thing that is correct about the towers is the load distribution ratios that are published.

Those ratios show the exterior box columns as the main load bearing elements.

The reason Yamasakis concrete core won the design competition is because the tubular steel reinforced cast concrete core resisted twisting which was the only cause of failure in the all steel designs.

[seatnineb]

29. And FEMA makes no acknowledgement of any concrete being in the core....

FEMA insist on the sheetrock/drywall scenario......which obviously suits the official agenda .

A concrete core would have enabled the towers to either stand for a longer period of time......or maybe not even collapse.

Sheetrock on the hand being relatively lightweight...offered little protection to FEMA's steel core......and hence the collapse as the official story would have us know it.

[Christophera]

31. New Design: Concrete Core Would Have Prevented Collapse.

It is ironic that there is word out there that (fake) specualtion into future tower designs, that the next tower should have a concrete core because it would withstand the impacts and fire better.

OMG

I'm ashamed of all the engineers that assert that drywall was the only lining for the stairwells and elevators. It is ridiculous.


I read somewhere that an ex port authority engineer had said that the towers could take as many as 10 airplane hits, depending on where they were, without collapsing. The concrete core was not mentioned, or the statement was edited.

The concrete core was penetrated by the engines, but that is all.



The photos of the fireball off the east face of WTC 2 has what some called an explosion near the north corner. What it is is the left engine of flight 175 punching through the core and slamming up agains the exterior box columns on the opposite side. It does not breach the exterior but a cloud of concrete debris folowing it blows out the windows making what some try and term an explosion/missile or something.

The horizontal and vertical vectors align perfectly with the exit/entry locations.

[Make7]

32. Why were people unable to evacuate using the stairs?

If the only thing that penetrated the cores were two engines, how did they destroy all three stairwells in the North Tower?

If the core was so strong, why did not at least one of them survive?

-Make7
Let_me_guess,_it_was_explosives.

[Christophera]

39. Fuel Followed The Engines Into The Core And Ran Down

The smoke from the fuel and what it was burning made the core a chimney. Theer was a stairway at each end of the 120 foot core and one in the middle on one side. The one in the middle were punctured by engines and fuel must have run down and burned in the third or the damage to the one in the middle extended to the far end.

[rman]

34. The engines could have severed only some of the many steel

columns. I don't think a concrete core is essential to non-natural collapse.

[Christophera]

40. You Haven't Pointed Out Any Of The 47, 1300 Foot Steel Columns Yet.

The engines would have only taken out a few steel core columns along 2 entry paths and so the tower with steel core columns cannot collapse as we saw. It also cannot stand as it did because the steel is too flexible in at that length no matter how much trussing you do.

You woul dhave to be familiar with the engineering of steel structures to know that .............. so just show me some pieces of steel core columns in these pictures showing the core area.

WTC 2 with all the exterior steel fallen away. What is that monolithic thing with the rounded of top? Does steel round of like that when multiple vertical steel columns are exposed?



If there were steel columns in the core would they not be seen here, these fine elements are too small to be the cores as they were about the size of the interior box columns.



Below is an interior box column, you can see by the floor beams that the column is a part of the outer tubular framework adjacent ot the core. The spire is near the core corner. Thsi photo is at the same distance of the photo above.

[Christophera]

18. All You Have To Do To Show Steel Core Columns Existed Is To Find Them Here

If the steel cores existed, they would be seen in photos of the demolition.

If they cannot be seen in these photos or any others, and there is massive quantities of sand and gravel (no gravel should be there) in the basement, then the steel core columns did not exist.

FEMA lied, please do not support their lie.







Here are many people doing much more than mentioning concrete, some have very accurate descriptions of the structure.

[rman]

25. talk about "all or nothing"...

because concrete was involved, there was no steel?

how about there was both steel and concrete in the core?

[Christophera]

30. You Haven't Found Steel Core Columns In Demo Photos Yet.

It is absolutely necessary that you find the full length steel core columns in the demo photos. The reason for this is that if they existed, they would show. They are 1300 feet in length and supposed to be massive.





I know that the only columns near the core were the interior box columns. They were massive but they were NOT inside the core.

The spire is an interior box column. This is indicated by thefact that it has floor beams attached horizontally.

[rman]

33. explosives of some kind took care of the steel;

some of it vaporized, some cut into neat little segments, pulverizing concrete, dry walls and office contents in the process.

I'm not at all convinced the towers could collapse naturally if they had a steel core that carried most of the load (which i still think was the case).

[Christophera]

35. "Who Knows What Happens When You Use High Explosives On Steel?"

I made a thread on this subject and it appears I'm the only one here that knows what happens when you try to use high explosives on steel.

"Who Knows What Happens When You Use High Explosives On Steel?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x49791

What I've said there is essentially this.

There is no way:
within what we saw, that 47 tubular steel columns were cut enough times with high explosives to make them small enough to disappear from demolition photos.

However, the right amount, a relatively small amount of high explosives in the center of the concrete walls of the tubular core will effect EXACTLY what we saw.

[rman]

36. Then what's with the molten steel in the basement?

Could thermite have been used?

[Christophera]

37. Absolutely, Thermite Installed In 1993 Remodel

Yes, heavy steel columns were severed with thermite, but that was all located from the first floor down.

I know this because molten steel was found puddled at the low point. It was molten and flowing before the mass of debri stopped it, mixing into it, blocking it, distributing it.

Thermite is classed as a high explosive but it does not detonate. It burns at high speed 20,000 FPS at 3,000 F.

The thermite was initiated when the mass of debri was about 15-20 floors up. If it had been sooner the debris load would shift off center, topple and increase collateral damages. The insurance scam was only supposed to extend to the WTC itself not the surrounding buildings if possible.

Had thermite been used 80 floors up, the molten steel would not be concentrated in low pools and would be found as molten chunks imbedded with concrete.

[Christophera]

17. Great Survivor Account.

I've seen that one before and wonder how they knew that it was concrete because the interior of the stairwells was lined with gypsum drywall.

The way it is stated is like they think everyone knows that the tower cores were concrete. I've talked to a few people who expressed exactly that so it makes sense.

[LARED]

5. It seems to me there is some middle ground

It is quite possible that the basement and lower levels of the WTC had some concrete walls. Perhaps those that believe they witnessed concrete wall actually only saw the lower part of the building under construction.

[Christophera]

41. The Tower Cores Were Concrete & Basements ALWAYS Have Concrete.

Basements always have concrete and this photo shows the core of WTC 2 standing without the steel, framework outer tube. If this is not the case, where are the multiple steel core columns and what is that standing there?



Here is an account from the building engineers in the basement.

http://jfk2wtc.tripod.com/

Mike told his co-worker to call upstairs to their Assistant Chief Engineer and find out if everything was all right. His co-worker made the call and reported back to Mike that he was told that the Assistant Chief did not know what happened but that the whole building seemed to shake and there was a loud explosion. They had been told to stay where they were and "sit tight" until the Assistant Chief got back to them.

...............

The two decided to ascend the stairs to the C level, to a small machine shop where Vito Deleo and David Williams were supposed to be working. When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.

"There was nothing there but rubble" Mike said. "We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press - gone!" The two began yelling for their co-workers, but there was no answer. They saw a perfect line of smoke streaming through the air. "You could stand here," he said, "and two inches over you couldn't breathe. We couldn't see through the smoke so we started screaming." But there was still no answer.

........

The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. ‘There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can't see anything’ he said

This account shows there was concrete in the basement (as if that was needed) and it shows the walls blew up. Yes, ........ blew up, because there is no way a plane hitting the tower 90 floors up is going to shatter concrete 3 floors deep into the basement.

[philb]

20. Firefighters in WTC1 dived into the core when WTC2 fell/rumbled

FIREFIGHTER GERARD GORMAN

in WTC1 when WTC2 fell
"It was like an earthquake. It was like worse and worse. All
the windows blew in. It got real dark.

I remember diving into the core of the building by the elevators.
I fucking forgot my mask, dove in, just diving. It was like an
earthquake. It was shaking and then the lights went
out and it got shitty in there. We all made it back in
the stairway, all got out -- I mean, our officer,
Lieutenant Bohack, said that's it, we're going out.
That's it, we're out of here."

(its obvious the firefighters knew the core was strong)

[philb]

21. Several firefighters apparently saved by stairwell in the core when crash

of WTC1 happened

FIREFIGHTER TIERNACH CASSIDY
In the rubble of WTC1: some firemen in the building survived the collapse

SO I TIE OFF AND GO DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THE HOLE AND I STARTED COMING UP HE SAID HE FOUND HIM IT WAS THE GUYS FROM 36 THAT PORT AUTHORITY COP THREE CIVILIANS AND FRIEND OF MINE MICKEY CROSS.
Q. There guys were down in the big hole? Where were these guys? A. The fourth Floor of the north tower when it came down. HOW THEY SURVIVED I HAVE NO IDEA. I COULDNT BELIEVE IT.


The Miracle of Ladder Company 6
http://www.acfd.com/miracle_of_ladder_company_6.htm

John Jonas FDNY: “And we were hearing explosions


I saw on some sites that the botton of the cores stood for a while

Apparently the firefighters at the botton of the stairwell which appears to have been in the core were saved by its strength

[philb]

23. The NY Firefighters know what kind of core they have.

FIREFIGHTER TIMOTHY BROWN- WTC2

I ran into the doors of the Two World Trade on the Liberty Street side.

We finally set up -- prior to this I believe it was the west side of the core of the building there were elevators

[philb]

38. This firefighter knew about core also

FIREFIGHTER WILLIAM GREEN

WTC1
LIEUTENANT Ohagan REPORTED IN TO THE FIRE COMMAND STATION WE STOOD FAST WHERE WE NORMALLY STAND FAST. BASICALLY RIGHT BY THE CORE. THERE OR JUST OUTSIDE THE CORE. THERE WERE SOME TURNSTILES THAT YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH TO GET LIKE TOWARDS THE CORE. WE HEADED FOR THE B STAIRCASE IT WAS PRETTY MUCH IN THE CENTER OF THE CORE

[philb]

22. Other WTC buildings had more fire, more damage, didn't fall

FIREFIGHTER KEITH FACCILONGA

Five World Trade Center with fire showing out of just about every single window of Five World Trade. The building was fully involved,
the whole entire building.

WTC 5 was severely damaged by fallout from the collapse of the towers. Serious fires raged through WTC 5 for hours. Despite the massive structural damage shown by the holes, and fires far more severe than those in WTC 1, 2, and 7, WTC 5 did not collapse. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc5.html WTC 6 was severely damaged on September 11 with two holes that extend the height of the building. It appears that fires may have raged through WTC 6. From the appearance of the remains of WTC 6, it probably had fires similar in severity to those in WTC 5. Despite the massive structural damage shown by the holes, and fires probably more severe than those in WTC 1, 2, and 7, WTC 6 did not collapse.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/wtc6_5.html
WTC 4 was severely damaged by fallout from the collapse of the South Tower, with all but one wing of the building having collapsed to ground level. The portion of WTC 4 that remained standing had a blackened appearance suggesting that it sustained severe fires. Despite the crushing of most of WTC 4 by fallout from the towers, it does not appear that the fires caused any further collapse of this building. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc4.html
WTC 3 was first partially crushed by the steel skeleton fragments from the South Tower and then further crushed by those from the North Tower. In each case the rubble, falling from as much as 1300 feet, collapsed regions spanning several floors but was arrested by the building's steel structure. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc3.html

[Christophera]

24. "Rubble" Falling Is Top Of Tower, Cube Shape of Core Top Visable.

The authors of that site do not know it but they have a photo that shows the top of the WTC 2 core inside the perimeter steel as the steel falls apart.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc3.html

My site has an arrowed version and a full explanation.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1152280