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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 02:20 AM
Original message
Dick Eastman at Physics911.org
It's nice to see researcher Dick Eastman publishing a piece outside of the environment of the American Patriot Friends Network, where some funny ideas about Hillary Clinton are to be psychologically expected! He posts his current well-thought-through theory on what really happened at the Pentagon on 9/11/2001. The list of sites at the end of the piece is very enlightening too.

http://www.physics911.org/911/index.php/articles/18
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acerbic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. What the hell are you trying to spin!?
It's nice to see researcher Dick Eastman publishing a piece outside of the environment of the American Patriot Friends Network, where some funny ideas about Hillary Clinton are to be psychologically expected!

Sure they are to be psychotically expected because they are spread there by Dickhead Yeastman!
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/not_crashed.htm

What exactly is your agenda calling the absolutely worthless freepshit kook a "researcher"? :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I don't agree with his politics, but is a good investigative journalist
Edited on Sat Aug-16-03 02:41 PM by Dancing_Dave
I've said it before, and I won't say it to many times again: I don't agree with all of the political explanation of 9/11 at the American Patriot Friends Network. I think Dick Eastman and his Libertarian friends have a more shallow way of trying to understand political history than lefties like Gore Vidal or Ewing2001. But I don't have any problem with admitting that the Libertarians do real research and make some important discoveries. I just follow THE OPEN MINDED TOLERANCE AND RESPECT FOR DIVERSE POINTS OF VIEW WHICH WE NEED TO MAKE DEMOCRACY WORK.

You don't really have anything to say here about the huge tangled web of eye-witness and photographic evidence Dick has carefully sorted through to put together a good theory of what happened to the Pentagon on 9/11/2001. It's hard to figure out what happened to the Pentagon even in the best of times, this is a very secretive area. And there's lots of planes going by pretty low, because it's right near the Ronald Reagan airport. The French group Reseau Voltaire did a lot of the pioneering technical research showing that a Boeing 757 could not have just crashed into the Pentagon, the story just didn't add up with the kind of "crash site" we can see. Reseau Voltaire has also gone on to study Secretary of Defence Rumsfelds place in the Bush Regime and the implementation of the PNAC agenda. But they didn't sort through so many rather contradictory eye-witness reports as Dick Eastman! And they didn't do such a detailed study of the issue of planted evidence. Dick added a lot to the basic investigative journalism research on WHAT happened on 9/11/2001...the WHY is a different matter, and he doesn't have such a good head for that it seems.

The Hillary theory was silly, but considering how many Libertarians there are these days, we need to figure out where their coming from if we want to win the next election. At lot of these people have learned to completely distrust the Bush Regime, and if we understand them, we can probably get a whole lot of them to cross-over and vote for some Democrats in 2004! If you look at some of the more recent APFN uploads, you'll notice that they're now much more seriously concerned about the conspiracies of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft ect. , than they are about that upitty woman Hillary Cinton.

If you want to read a more left-wing person who has studied many of the same what-happened issues as Eastman, check out http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/investigation77.htm which is the central nexus of Gerard Holmgren.
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joshdawg Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. I really hope your post was meant as satire,
because if it was not, then you need help if you believe what this paranoiac has to say. Eastman is nuts!!
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dick Eastman is the one with funny ideas about Hillary Clinton!
This is pathetic, Dancing_Dave.

And Eastman's "current well-thought-through theory on what really happened at the Pentagon on 9/11/2001" involves not ONE, not TWO, but THREE, THREE, count 'em, THREE planes!

"Mr. Decorum, how many planes does it take to crash into the Pentagon?"

"I don't know, I don't do conclusions, ask Mr. Eastman."

"Mr. Eastman, how many planes does it take to crash into the Pentagon?"

"Let's find out! One, Two-HOOO, Three. CRASH! Three."

How many planes does it take for Hillary Clinton to exact her revenge on Barbara Olson? The world may never know....
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. PS - Perhaps Physic911.org belongs in the Israeli-Palestinian forum
After all, whodunit at Physics9/11?

http://www.physics911.org/911/index.php/articles/2

Scroll down to the bottom: This number is certainly an underestimate, but easily mustered by any large intelligence organization. Under the Operation Pearl scenario, the most likely perpetrator would be Mossad, Israel's spy agency.

This all gets so predictable after a while.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. This all gets so predictable after a while.
I did a google search and Eastman with other known historical revisionist and holocaust deniers like Carto and Bollyn, and low and behold, Eastman's seems to be associated with these same groups. He also seems to be a newbie at that game, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn't know what type of slime he running with yet. Time will tell.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. So you know it wasn't Mossad with absolute certainty, right?
Because, as far as I know, there has been no complete public airing and debate on all the facts about 9/11.

Remember the Maine!
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. they are not in Iraq either!

never any mention of them.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. Solution to riddle of Flight 77...
We've all heard the bogus official myth of Flight 77, but when that is gone we are still left wondering WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. Here's one possible solution to the mystery: http://www.physics911.org/index.php/docs/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=29&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. notice
Edited on Sun Aug-24-03 02:06 AM by QuietStorm

how all our illustrious investigators have run right into this thread with such astute comments. Boo to eastman none commented on anything else in your post. As for the mossad that is a none too popular topic either. No investigation allowed.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Why such astute comments?
Dick Eastman's theories have been throughly debunked about three or four times already. Look up the archived threads and spend a week reading what was discussed. He's like one of those shape shifting lizard men. His theories get wilder and wilder in his lame attempts to make a name for himself. Or another theory I have is his a college student writing a paper for psych class on how much BS will otherwise intelligent people swallow if it furthers a political agenda.

No one with brain cells that remotely function in a rational way takes his Pentagon theories seriously. He's either a nut or he's purposely is trying to dupe people.
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Lared: You really shoot straight at...the messenger
Like your fellow choir members, there's just one little problem with your marksmanship: you aim at the wrong target.

I assume that if you could refute the argument, you would. Is that right? Boy, if I had half the resources you people do, I could do better than just make a personal attack on the messenger.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Correct
I assume that if you could refute the argument, you would. Is that right?

Yes that's correct. I would and have, along with other members of the so called 'choir' rebutted his lunacy. His "arguments" (read delusions) have been completely rebutted quite a number of times already. I will not engage his lunacy in a substantive manner again.

Even though we can empathize with the condition of a rabid dog, we still mercifully put him down. We don't delude ourselves thinking its going to get better by discussing its illness.

So, IMHO when the messenger just repeats the same illogical babbling over and over and over and over, it is sometimes just best to put him out of his misery.
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Where have you rebutted any lunacy?
Provide the sources, and make sure they aren't sources where you either merely call someone names or set up and blow down a Straw Man.

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID43&conf=DCConfID14

There are something like a dozen or more Pentagon related threads. Have fun.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Can you be more specific?

Hey blood hound ... WHICH of all these threads discusses EASTMAN'S TWO PLANE THEORY DIRECTLY.

A list of the all the topics discussed is not time efficient enough. We want the threads that address EASTMAN'S TWO PLANE THEORY. Can you be more specific? Since you seem to be the one in the know here.

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Huh?
When did I or anyone address Eastman's NEW and REVISED two plane theory? I'm sure his new delusion is just as cogent as the his old ones. Seeing as he posted the new theory in July 03, it obviously would not be in the archives.

And please feel free to discuss his two plane theory til the cows come home. As I said I will not engage in debate about one man's delusions.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I encountered his two plane theory at the beginning of this year
Edited on Sun Aug-24-03 06:48 PM by QuietStorm

end of january or february. I thought that is the one you had suggested you et al had had mindful discussion on. Perhaps this one you refer to is an updated version. I suppose I will have to google for the both of them. Actually someone placed it elsewhere. I really will have to print it out. Perhaps I will open up a new discussion see what comes of it . HAH.

If you et al would take interest in just this one theory, which I really do not have hopes for.

So then let me get this straight. There never was any discussion regarding Eastman's two plane theory, just revilement of those theories that all thought would succeed in smearing all of Eastman's work? Is that it?
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Plenty of discussion
involving his theories. I did not maintain a list of his theories and changes. If you are interesting in reviewing the thousand plus posts regarding the pentagon and various theories (his and mostly others) read the archives. I'm not doing your homework.

The bottom lines is there is overwhelming evidence that flt 77 hit the pentagon. All conspiracy theories to be viable need to ignore 95+ of this evidence to be even close to rational.

If you believe the Pentagon was bombed, hit by a fighter jet, had 'spare body parts' slipped in to provide evidence, etc ,etc ,etc ,etc, suit yourself.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. no you misunderstand

I am interested in the ONE theory I keep mentioning. Not that the countless other theories. ONLY THE ONE.

I call it the Eastman TWO PLANE THEORY. I don't know is english not sufficient.

Have you specifically discussed THAT THEORY not ALL the countless theories JUST THAT THEORY?
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. ....have hopes for?
How very sad.

:nopity:

What's the point of looking any further when you're not even bothering to take in what was written around here recently?

So called "discussions" with Eastman are ancient history.

My pages were originally put up to defend myself against the abusively ignorant crap that he'd been spouting about that particular issue more than a year ago. But for my effort he'd still be saying that the notion of fallen lamp poles is a disinformation exercise. Yes, it is possible to get him to admit that he was wrong, but don't bet your life on it; it will not be worth the effort.

Many of the 'No Boeing' lunatics, come to think of it, would still appear to think so. I was in touch with one only recently. Every available photo of the area, he would have me believe, was faked.

Perhaps then they faked the allegedly too small hole in the Pentagon; it was big hole after all but they touched up all the photos!

To judge the true extent of Eastman's pshychotic absurdities study for instance the archive to the yahoo 'frameup' list, messages sent during the summer months of last year.

Some of his more recent forays are also good for a laugh. The one about Washington Boulevard being at a higher level than the roof of the Pentagon was a classic.

Then there was his pathetic fit of pique when it turned out that he didn't know where the Sheraton Hotel happens to be located. Should we laugh or cry?

:hurts:


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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I read through the lampost



discussions already somewhere else. I don't know it appears you all work in a vaccuum?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
38. .
Edited on Fri Aug-20-04 06:14 AM by MercutioATC




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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Where are these "disscussions" concerning Eastman's Theory
Edited on Sun Aug-24-03 12:44 PM by QuietStorm

I am most interested in the "discussions" here on forum, on the two plane theory. The one wherein he hypotesizes that there were two planes in the sky. We know the Tower at RRNA was expecting an inbound boeing. Therefore it is reasonable to believe there WAS a boeing in the sky along with another plane. If I remember correctly TWO approaches were picked up to the pentagon. One from behind that then came around and the other path was from the front.

Eastman's theory does seem to account for this as it also accounts for that Plane RRNA was expecting. That two plane theory also adequately explains the variances of eyewitness account. IT it explains the account of the withnesses on the highway by the 14th street bridgeI believe it was, that said they saw a boeing which seemed to be headed in for a landing at RRNA, which varied with the descriptions from the eyewitnesses that were to the front of the alleged crash site at the pentagon. (please forgive I have my directions wrong .

I participated in discussion regarding the people in cars on the highway and the eyewitness that miraculously called into one of the news statements regarding this boeing that looked to be headed in for a landing at RRNA (here account btw appeared to be prompted). HOwever, I would have to go back and read through that thread to account for locations again. I do not remember the layout. I could dig out the AAAR. I DO have it and on my hard drive too. BUT is ANYONE helpful around here!

Please abe linkman I would be very interested to see the tenure of those discussions as I have never seen any discussion on Eastman's theory. That might have occurred before I came on board this bumpy ride. I do not have search privileges. If you can direct me to these particular discussions that were conducted on THIS forum. Unless you are of the opinion and might feel it best to synopsis the tenure of those discussions instead. Or better yet if YOU might answer me this.

Were there actually mindful discussion regarding Eastman's Two plane theory or was it immediate rejection by insult?

P.S. Poor crispy I noticed last night he had just arrived and was so enthusiastic for discussion and look at the recession he received. Even I was bitchy as I couldn't ascertain who were the rabble rousers. It wasn't until last night that I grasped he was being genuine. That is the disadvantage of being high strung, bitchy and jaded.
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I have the same question.
"Were there actually mindful discussion regarding Eastman's Two plane theory or was it immediate rejection by insult?"

Eastman does seem to have a plausible theory about the crime, and that would make him an immediate target for ridicule by the Choir.

While I'm here, what is YOUR theory about why not one single witness has said that s/he saw any victims that appear to have arrived at the Pentagram via "The plane"?
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. there was no plane that hit the pentagon
Edited on Sun Aug-24-03 04:10 PM by QuietStorm

would be the catchall answer to your question. The eyewitness accounts on scene (pentagon) do seem to be vague regarding passengers. I always liked Eastman's theory from the moment I encountered it. But no one seems to want to address it. I mean even those that don't believe a plane hit the pentagon. I can not understand why not. I will have to just find it and read it again more carefully and see what pops into my mind. It is the same with the AAAR.

I reviewed it and no one seemed to jump off with the kind of enthusiam I had about it. Sure I believe it is stated in the PT timeline that there was a report of a crash on runway 1-19, but on forum it was never pursued it was like no one wants to make speculation. There does seem to have been a boeing in the air. Some said it looked like it was heading for a landing at RRNA. There are the newspaper quotes concerning the tower expecting in a boeing. and then the crash report which was amended.

you have all those dots. in my mind werdygo is answered. The friggin plane crashed on the runway. Why, in one of the articles about Cap Defina and that runawya diabetic in the parking lot at RRNA, does the article (or perhaps Captain Defina) go out of its way to emphasize the crews backs were turned to the runway, while in the same article it mentions the initial report of the crash. The runway diabetic and the vehicular accident always struck me the way those stories about lee harvey oswald killing those policemen struck me. Kind of like a diversionary slight of hand.

It seems to me the dots are there. and even those that agree that the boeing did not hit the pentagon seem to be unwilling to connect them.

If there was a crash on the runway. Since it seems obvious the feds want us to believe the official line. THEY WOULD go out of there way not to talk about the initial crash report and set up diversion in the partking lot so CAPTIAN DEFINA would be diverted from investigating the crash itself. He was captain of the fire unit at RRNA afterall.

All the other explanations for werdygo seems out there. This one seems the most plausible based on what I outline above in tandem with eastman's theory which is very plausible to me.
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Official Story Cover-up Choir has their own hymnal to sing from.
Disinformation agents are not paid to debate the merits of what they're paid to help cover up. Their job is not to help uncover the truth, but rather to make sure the truth doesn't get out...at least not to the population at large, anyhow.

I've just now realized why you keep talking about a crash at Reagan National Airport. I believe this is the first time you have actually said that the alleged crash may have been FL 77.

If that is indeed the suggestion, how is it that a major air crash at a busy airport like Reagan has gone relatively undetected? And, do supporters of the alleged Reagan crash contend that everyone aboard was killed in the accident?

Thank you.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Eastman's "theory" addressed:
(it's actually a repost from a while ago)

After reading Eastman's theory, a few things come to mind:


1) Did I miss a bio, or is all we know about Eastman's training is that he's an "M.A., M.S." Masters of WHAT? Could be Literature and Horticulture.

2) "Comment: The man being interviewed by CNN above was also a CNN reporter. No one else reports having seen in the hole pieces of aircraft"

This simply isn't true:

"Lt. Cmdr. David Tarantino, U.S. Navy
I stepped into the open breezeway between C and B rings to get some fresh air. I saw these two holes where the aircraft had come through. You could see an aircraft tire that had come through three rings of the Pentagon, and there were charts and other stuff that was obviously from the aircraft."

"Tom Hovis, thovis@mindspring.com a Fairfax, Assoc. Member, reports: The nosewheel I understand is in the grass near the second ring."

"Todd Tiahrt, Kansas District 4 representative, U.S. House of Representatives wrote:
The next day we came to the Pentagon. The Pentagon has five outer rings labeled A through E, with E being the outer ring. In the C and B rings the plane had punched a hole you could a drive a truck around in, and I saw an airplane tire. It made it very real."

"Carlton Burkhammer was bussed to the Pentagon with other firefighters from Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Station 14. Within the building he spotted lime-green pieces from the interior of the plane"

"“I picked up a child's hand. That was it. Just a child's hand and that's when I got angry. To wonder why someone could do this. You can come after me. I'm a soldier. I have sworn to protect and defend, but that wasn't right,”

3) Eastman believes that the debris that could be associated with a 757 was planted "An early picture shows an agent in white shirt carrying a piece of "debris" that looks very much like the "planted" piece of false evidence" and yet admits that "The first photographer to capture this specimen did not arrive at the scene until 10 minutes after the crash.". I have doubts that people had run around and finished "planting" evidence 10 minutes after the crash. Most of the pieces that could be identified as coming from a particular plane were larger (engine parts, wheel, cockpit seat). With dozens (if not hundreds) of onlookers, it seems unlikely that this evidence could have been planted without detection.

4) His scenario detailing how AAL77 got to Reagan Airport is flawed. Eastman states "With its engines off so that its silence was remarked by Riskus and other witnesses, Flight 77 approached the Pentagon's west wall at an angle much closer to 90 degrees than the 45-degree approach of the killer jet." A 757 is not a sailplane. With its engines "off" it would never have made it to Reagan. In the next paragraph, he states "At a speed between a third and two-thirds that of sound and leveling from its necessarily accelerating dive, Flight 77 was over Reagan National Airport before the sound of the killer jet's crash reached the Capitol Building or Washington Monument" Which is it? Were the engines "off" of was the 757 traveling at 300-400 knots? You can't have it both ways. At 300-400 feet, 400 knots would represent the engines at full throttle, not turned "off".

5) Eastman's statement "Any of the three runways of Reagan could have been used by Flight 77, which, by the way, did not have to land immediately for a successful getaway -- it could have disguised itself as a plane taking off as well as one landing in those critical few seconds of its disappearing act and its "blending in" operation." shows his complete lack of knowledge of ATC procedures. A 757 does NOT land at a busy airport without everybody knowing its identity. There is no "blending in" and his thought that "it could have disguised itself as a plane taking off as well as one landing" simply makes no sense.

6) In Eastman's profile of the equipment on the the supposed F-16 involved, He lists "a voice-activated maneuvering system allowing the pilot to "point" the aircraft in unusual flight attitudes." How, exactly, does a voice-actuated system allow a pilot to maneuver the plane more efficiently and, if the plane was in fact using remote guidance, why would voice commands be used at all?

7) He states "But the famous fragment was discovered by photographers lying on the south lawn, far to the port side (left side of plane, right side of this picture) of the attack plane as it crossed the lawn in its approach to its target. Since the piece can neither have bored through the crashing fuselage to get so far to the port side nor could it have flown against an explosion radiating out in all directions, even assuming it did pop off under stresses from the compression of the plane during the first split second of the crash, we must conclude that the piece
did not come from the crash at all. The piece thus had to have been
carried to the spot and planted by an accomplice some time before the
moment, a full ten minutes after the crash". If we know that debris was found on the highway (beyond the south lawn) then Eastman is completely wrong about this particular fragment not being to be where it was without being planted. He also says "The wind, as the photos of smoke show, was blowing from the southwest -- against alleged flight path of this light piece of sheet aluminum." A wind would have to be very strong to have any effect on the trajectory of blast debris. The wind in question would have made no difference.

The other issues I have with Eastman (his spelling, his weird Geocities web page (look at the picture of "ol Dick Eastman" on the upper left)

http://www.geocities.com/oldickeastman/Dick_Eastman_pag ...

notwithstanding, all I see in his report is a mix of lay opinions with incorrect facts liberally mixed in. There is NO input from anybody with technical qualifications.

I could rant on a webpage and use it as a cite, too. That wouldn't make either page worth the bandwidth it took to download it.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. also

another thing I am unclear about. there was siting of an F-16 something does guide a air to land missile correct? I ask because I just encountered to older articles wherein to people state what they saw on site.

here they are. I have to get on with my day so I can not pull out the quotes. You will have to read the articles.

Both articles are pretty vague. They are officialdom accounts IMHO. are only to establish a plane seat was found. could have been then again who would dispute it. (so many pictures from site. Any show up of this seat described here - this one sighing of a seat with the green metal - it was what had someone ask on another forum about a commercial liner with lime green interior .):eyes:.

Note the vagueness even in the description of smell. It smelt like burning is the extent of it. NO MENTION OF PASSENGERS JUST ALIVE BURN VICTIMS.

http://www.suntimes.com/terror/stories/cst-nws-pent16.html

Here's another one wth a seat sighting

snip
They looked around and noticed two women lying on the ground. “We didn’t know if they had been blown out by the impact or jumped out to escape, but they were alive.” One was conscious, the other wasn’t. “We picked them up and dragged them 100 yards from the fire

snip
They looked around and noticed two women lying on the ground. “We didn’t know if they had been blown out by the impact or jumped out to escape, but they were alive.” One was conscious, the other wasn’t. “We picked them up and dragged them 100 yards from the fire,

snip

As the men turned back, “another woman just appeared, out of the middle of the smoke,” Anderson says. When she saw them, “she just fell to the ground, into our arms, and immediately fell apart. I think she went into shock. I was afraid she was going to slip into unconscienceness, so I took her outside, loosened her clothing, propped up her knees to help the blood flow—and then the paramedics grabbed her.”

snip

One of the things that has stuck with me over the last nine days and nights is the fact that the entire time he was screaming, yelling at us, ‘There’s people behind me, there’s people behind me. Get the people out of the corridor behind me.’

snip (these are interesting snips - reports of another hijacked plane had rescuers held from going in - this is consistent with the AAAR 4 lengthy evaculations occured that day wherein all unauthorized were held outside crime scene.)

“The sergeant and I went back into the building, but just as we got inside, firemen grabbed us and pulled us out of the building and wouldn’t allow us to go back in,” he said. “That’s been the hardest thing to live with.

Anyway, we were screaming at the firemen, ‘there are people in that corridor, please let us go get them. They’re Army. We’re Army. There were generals there with us. We said we would take responsibility for our own welfare. But they couldn’t allow that to happen.... They held us back.


Hoping that rescuers would be allowed back into the building once the fire was under control, Anderson found it hard to leave. “The whole time, I was waiting to go back in, to get people out of the building, but that time never came. It was frustrating, because everytime they seemed to be at a point where they were making headway, and it looked like the fire department was in a position to make entry, we’d be notified by someone that another airplane was inbound, there were other hijackers in the air

WELL I CAN NOT FIND IT IN THIS READ BUT THERE IS A LINE IN HERE ABOUT A SEAT FIND IF I AM REMEMBER CORRECTLY NO MENTION OF PLANE PASSENGERS AND VERIFICATION THAT FROM JUMP RESCUERS WERE HELD BACK FROM ENTERING FIRE AREA.

Which BTW was not mentioned in the AAAR. The evacations were but not the barring of the fire department from entry on more than one occasion.



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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 06:05 AM
Original message
.
Edited on Fri Aug-20-04 06:14 AM by MercutioATC
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DougFir Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. another big distraction - WHERE is more important than WHAT
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html
there is lots of evidence that a large jet hit the Pentagon


http://www.oilempire.us/remote.html
the real issue is WHERE the Pentagon was hit
in the nearly empty, recently reconstructed and strengthened sector
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Another big distraction - from a KNOWN disinfo site
Oilempire.us is not to be trusted.
For example, oilempire.us claims that the Pentagon was hit
in the nearly empty, recently reconstructed and strengthened sector
which somehow happened to contain SCORES of people
who were hurt,
rescued
or killed.

Not bad for a nearly empty building.
Or a plane which the BTS says never took off
and the FAA says remained viable until January 14, 2002.
The NTSB declines involvement
and refers any and all questions to Robert Mueller's FBI
which is MOST CURIOUS
considering the powers and responsibilities possessed by the NSTB.

The NTSB was formed by The Independent Safety Board Act of 1974. The NTSB was designed to be an independent agency not susceptible to the influence of other parts of government. The Board is managed by five "Members" appointed by the President, each for a five-year term. Once appointed, the member theoretically has job security for his full term, so if the White House calls, the Board theoretically doesn't have to jump. (They might only ask, "How high did you have in mind, Mr. President?") ......

Powers (and Limitations) of NTSB Investigators
In order to enable the NTSB to determine the probable cause of accidents and improve aviation safety, its investigators are given more legal power than many governmental agencies. NTSB investigators have the right to interrogate witnesses on demand, inspect files, enter facilities and aircraft, examine the processes and computer data of any party involved in an air crash. Besides these Congressionally-authorized powers, the NTSB can obtain subpoenas and court orders for special searches and seizures of any party who may have relevant evidence useful in determining the cause of the air crash.
http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181884-1.html

In other words, the NTSB had and has the authority to tell the FBI to go to hell since the NTSB has the responsibility for investing ANY and ALL aviation accidents. But this has not happened leaving many to question whether this was ever an aviation accident in the first place.
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demodewd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. re: where
You may be right on this point.
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demodewd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. messy
The idea that Flight 77 would land at Reagan is real messy. Much better that Flight 77 to be brought down and landed at a remote base. The key function here is absolute control of the situation. Why does it have to be either a fighter with missile or Flight 77? If one agrees that Flight 175 was substituted by a similar plane then why not the same possibility for the Pentagon? The requisite change being bomb/explosives on board.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. URL changed, pictures lost
Physics911.org completely re-structured their site. This article got a new URL:
http://physics911.org/net/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=7

The pictures which helped make the argument clear were lost.

Still, it's quite interesting in suggesting how distractions could have functioned in the Great 9/11 Dissimulation. And if you follow Dick's links, he does have considerable evidence for his contentions. But I'm still not sure whether Flight 77 was among the aircraft near the Pentagon, it very well could have been taken care of closer to where it's transponder went off and it disappeared from radar, in Ohio, or perhaps Pennsylvania.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Flight 77 didn't disappear from radar.
It disappeared from the screen that the ATC was looking at, yes, but on reviewing recordings of the primary radar coverage, the radar signature of Flight 77 is clearly visible from takeoff until it crashed into the Pentagon.

This is a fact. I'm sorry if it doesn't knocks the legs off of somebody's hobby horse, but facts are facts.
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Abe Linkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. FL 77 didn't disappear UNTIL it "landed"...
wherever it did. And, since FL 77 wasn't scheduled to even fly on 9/11, it's problematic to even discuss "what happened to it".

I'm sorry if "Osama And The Cavemen" devotees are devastated to learn their brilliant tactician is little more than a CIA-made Patsy, but facts are facts.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. So now you're admitting that radar tracked it the entire time?
If so, where do YOU think radar showed it "landing"?
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-04 06:05 AM
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