There have been TWO Mohamed Attas

[Andre II]

Here the summary of the Atta file compiled by John Doe II:


Atta being in two different places at the same time on September 7 and 8 proves that we have here a clear case of an alleged hijacker and his double.
For further details: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?6.1704
Furthermore the Atta witnessed in the Phillipines (1998-2000) is in strong contradiction to the official Atta being in Germany at that time.
The same goes for Atta being reported as having asked for a job at Frankfurt airport in February 2001 while officially being in the US.
How come Atta was identified by Able Danger as being part of the Brooklyn group in January 2000 though Atta officially only arrived in June 2000? Why did he rent apartments in New York clearly before entering the States?
And how come Able Danger also uncovered Atta and Al Shehhi living in Wayne (close to Paterson) while officially they have been at that time in Florida?
Furthermore several strong indications underline the presence of two Attas:
On documents we see two clearly different hand writings.
See: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.184
His English is sometimes described as almost without accent sometimes as bad and heavily accented.
And in Germany he is described as being almost 5’ 4’’. In the US we have estimations of 5’ 8’’ and even 5’ 10’’.
Please note the strange re-entrance of Atta into the US on January 10, 2001. Not only did he have to persuade the INS inspector cause he had no student visa but he also had two different INS papers!
How come that Rudi Dekkers not only had the impression Atta had already had flight training but also saw in his logbook that he already had done previous flight hours?
And how come people state they might have witnessed Atta in Hollywood already in 1999?
Please note that right after 911 Atta had strong ties to Vero Beach. But this will never be reported ever since. For further details: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.35
Note that apparently the name on his luggage on 911 is “Moham Atta”. For further details: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.1686
The strange resurfacing of Mohamed Arajaki who claims to have been the boy-friend of Amanda Keller and mistaken for Atta!
See: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.192
Why does the name with which Atta signed his testament not show up on the list of alias by the FBI?
How come the finnlist mentions a quite different name?
How come the finnlist mentions an address in Delray Beach, Washington and Baltimore?
And why on earth does the finnlist mentions “Marwan Al Shehhi” as an alias for Atta?


Timeline and further details here:
http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?23.2484

[trotsky]

1. Only two?

I suspect Mohammed Atta is probably about as common in the Arab world as John Martin is here. A very common first name, a not-all-that-uncommon surname.

[Andre II]

2. Sorry,

but did you actually read the OP?
Is there any name in the world that only one person carries?
What would the sense be of discussing that there is somebody 84 years old living in Switzerland with the name of Mohamed Atta.
if you read the OP it's about the alleged hijacker Mohamed Atta several times being at two different places at the same time.
Simplest example is September 7, 2001.
There many further indications supporting that there are two Attas.
How come that Atta was identified by Able Danger in January 2000 although he still was in Germany?

[seatnineb]

4. So how did Atta phone his father AFTER 9/11.........

On Sept. 12, Atta claims, he was at his vacation home on the Mediterranean coast, shielded from the radio and television and thus unaware of the attacks the previous day, when his son called. They talked about “normal things.” Only later that day, did he hear about the destruction in New York and Washington, and see his son’s picture in the newspaper. He concluded: “They forced him to make the phone call after the attack to cause controversy. Then they killed him. This was done by the Mossad, using American pilots.”
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3067635/

[trotsky]

5. So let's see, lots of possibilities about that account...

First off, lots of family members are able to keep horrible secrets from each other. We should not be surprised that Atta could call his father and talk about "normal things."

Now, the possibilities:
* His father is mistaken about the day his son called.
* He is lying, because he doesn't want his son linked with 9/11.
* He is confused, for any number of reasons.
Etc.

Why are we supposed to accept only one explanation? The phone call is anecdotal evidence.

Oh, and why would the masterminds who supposedly coordinated 9/11 be so stupid as to "force" Atta to make a call the day after the attacks? Um, hello?

[seatnineb]

6. Rubbish..........

He(Atta JR) apparently placed one last call to his own father(Atta SR) on September 9.
9/11 CR.
Page 249.

Is that fuckin' so...........

In the words of Atta SR

"He(Atta JR) telephoned me the day after(September 11).It was in the morning and as usual he asked me about my health and whether I had given up smoking yet.
I am absolutely sure that my son is somewhere in America or has been liquidated by the Americans
Masterminds Of Terror.
Page 34.
By Yosri Fouda and Nick Fielding.

The only lies I can see are the ones being spun by the 9/11 CR.

[trotsky]

7. Really?

Interesting how you give no reason whatsoever that any of the other possibilities MUST be rejected, and only yours accepted.

Since you glossed over them, here they are again:

* His father is mistaken about the day his son called.
* He is lying, because he doesn't want his son linked with 9/11.
* He is confused, for any number of reasons.
Etc.

[seatnineb]

9. Yeah really...........

I don't have a problem with Atta SR lyin',being confused or being mistaken as the reason why he gives 9/12 as being the date of this infamouse last call.....

What I do have a problem with is the 9/11 CR saying that this same call was made on 9/9....

Where is the proof for this?

[trotsky]

10. Neither one of us has access to phone records, now do we?

But I have to question just how involved and hidden and tricky any supposed conspiracy could be, if they would "force" Atta to make a call AFTER he's supposed to be dead. To pull off your big conspiracy, YOU DON'T WANT WITNESSES, right? :eyes:

[seatnineb]

11. Should that be re-phrased as WHICH Atta was supposed to be dead?

Because if it is the Atta who snorted coke,had a 9 year old son to a French woman,had obtained a pilots license before even arriving in the U.S,told people he was a Saudi Prince and had a stripper for a girlfriend...then this Atta who is supposed to be dead........ has nothing to do with the Mohammed El Amir(or Atta as he himself would come to be known),who at ths point(9/12) had every right to phone his father AFTER 9/11 because he obviously had not been scripted in to the 9/11 plot at this very late stage.......or should that be .........renditioned into the 9/11 plot.

[savemefromdumbya]

25. the Atta who was registered at the flight school is still alive

they pulled the info from the site shortly after 9/11 - someone must have forgotten to dot their i's

[medienanalyse]

27. unclear

please explain your remark.

[reprehensor]

3. Patsy.

Lee Harvey Atta.

[oblivious]

8. How anyone can believe the official hijacker story is beyond me.

It's just so full of holes, inconsistencies, bullshit and absurdities, it's unbelievable that most people just accept it, simply trusting that their government and the media wouldn't lie.

[Andre II]

12. Couldn't agree more

and here it is black on white now. A clear proof that there have been TWO Attas.
I'm pushing this issue since one month and never anybody even tried to refute the proof.

[Andre II]

13. Doubles

In case there is the suspicion of a double walking around every judge would ask for a clarification who exactly boarded the plane.
The identification of the culprit is crucial to a crime yet nobody bothers to challenge this.
Even researchers known for their critical thinking couldn't care less as somebody openly admitted.

Now, think for a second:
Take September 7, 2001 for example

Either one or two events didn't happen or Atta wasn't involved (but all events appear in books, Paul Thompson's Timeline etc) or one they didn't happen exactly at the same time and were still managable or we must acknowledge that there were TWO Attas.

But why would al Qaeda send in two Attas?
What for?
Why would the FBI cover this up instead of using this as a perfect excuse of their confusion?
Or doesn't it clearly hint to doubles being used as in a false flag operation?

Now, the September 7 event is only one case. One of many.
The double Atta questions the very center of the official story.

[Andre II]

14. :kick:

:kick:

[Rich Hunt]

15. possible

I can't see a potential terrorist making it through an architecture program - I've been there, they weed the creepies out.

[JackRiddler]

16. Atta and Atta

The key here is the FBI / CR date of June 3 2000 as Atta's first entry to the US.

Preceding that however we had in the US:
- Atta trying to muscle a loan out of Johnelle Bryant for a cropduster to fill with poison, incidentally promising mayhem in Washington.
- An Atta located as a member of the "Brooklyn Cell" by Able Danger, the personnel of which insist he was the same lead-hijacker Atta of the official story. AD also names the 3 other alleged ringleaders, and what do you know, they're the same ones the Mossad named in Aug. 2001.
- Atta renting rooms, seen by a few people around Florida.
- Someone going out with Amanda Keller.
This Atta was generally obnoxious and conspicuous.

Meanwhile, he was in Germany, too, being a quiet student who'd just finished up his Magister thesis. AND being followed around by the CIA. And also under surveillance by the German authorities. And receiving Ramzi Binalshibh, who was also followed.

There are various ways one can put these items together. I have my ideas, what are yours?

[Andre II]

17. Atta and Atta

I think it is certain beyound a shadow of a doubt in view of the enomrity of evidence that there have been two Attas around.
Especially convincing is the appearance of two Attas on September 7 and 8, 2001 (plus all the evidence you've presented).
I see abosultely no possibility that al Qaeda sent two Attas into the US.
To send already one was extremely risky but two? And what for? Why run the risk for the most importat operation? Why would the FBI and CIA cover up the presence of two Attas if this would present a perfect excuse for the confusion?
Add to this the fact that Atta often behaved extremely conspicously and not at all interested in remain in the dark. Add to this the strong evidence that Atta is by far not the only case of an alleged hijacker having a doppelgaenger and wonder which direction this points?
For me it is the strongest evidence of 911 being an inside job I've seen so far.
For me it is a clear proof that you can even explain your neighbour in the bus within five minutes that there has been a huge cover up.

As far as I can see there is one Atta who eg vaguely knew he was hijacking planes (though not knew it would be a suicide mission).
And there is another who was in the know of 911 being an inside job and took care to plant evidences and leave his suspicious trail.
The one who had no idea of the aim of 911 boarded the plane.

For all people who don't care:
If there were two Attas then it follows that at least one didn't die in the plane.

[Kevin Fenton]

18. Master's thesis

According to Perfect Soliders, Atta handed his thesis in in the spring of '99 (p. 77), although he certainly did not leave Hamburg immediately and his professor saw him at least one time later.

I think the mistake the FBI made was to look for a guy called Mohammed Atta travelling on an Egyptian passport. Atta previously used the name El Amir, so maybe they should have looked for that too. My understanding is that El Amir is the "family" name (like "Hanjour" or "Moqed"), but that Atta was the "tribal" name (like "Al Shehri" or "Al Nami").

Also, there is the issue of him (and Wail Al Shehri) reportedly holding UAE passports, which we might want to combine with one of the alleged hijackers (Banihammad, assuming for a moment he's a real person) being a former immigration official in Sharjah.

[Andre II]

19. Where are the debunkers

that are always around?
No, nothing?
That there have been TWO Attas is not important for you to debunk or you simply can't?

[Andre II]

20. Why do debunkers

spend 24/24 7/7 jumping into all discussions of WTC demolition etc but when it comes downright to prove that the culprits had doubles and hence al Qaeda can't have done it you can sing with Depeche Mode "Enjoy the silence".

[HockeyMom]

21. September 11th, 10:20 AM, 30 miles east of JFK,

10 miles west of MacArthur. I was at a Citibank ATM right next to the outside glass windows. The machines were running very, very slow and I looked outside to see a man leaning on a dark blue car and smoking. He seemed to be nervously waiting for somebody inside the bank, alternately turning his head, looking in the bank, and looking down the street. The bank was very empty. Nobody else was at the ATM machines and only 3 people were at the teller window, all of whom were men.

As I left the bank, I nearly tripped over the man's legs. His car was parked in the handicapped parking space up onto the sidewalk. He was wearing a dark blue shirt with the sleeves rolled up, black pants, black shoes, and white socks. There was a pile of unfiltered cigarette butts on the ground next to him. I will never forget that face and pure hatred in his eyes as his met mine. He said nothing to me.

As soon as the portraits of the hijackers were released, I called the FBI. It was a recording and I left my message. I was never contacted. Surprised? I'm not now. When those photos at the airport were released showing how the hijackers were dressed on 9/11, chills went down my spine.

Just coincidence? What are the odds of every piece matching? I have no doubt at all that Atta called his father on September 12th.

I have attempted to post this several times, but have been afraid to. I still am, but if it can help, so be it. Take it where you will.

[Andre II]

23. Thanks a lot for posting this!

:toast:

[savemefromdumbya]

22. At least 1000 Attas

the whole thing is fake

[Andre II]

24. Yawn

where are the debunkers?
where are the debunkers?
where are the debunkers?

Please wake me up!

[medienanalyse]

26. good morning Vietnam !

Did you take into account that doppelgangers incl. Atta II might fulfill several jobs in one time?

What I am saying is: not necessarily we must count with ONE doppelganger per person. It would be enough to have 2 or three "middle eastern"- looking persons who lay the personal trail, habing several identities each. The rest is papertrail, in my view papertrail of paper persons. The Attas seem to resemble one another fairly enough to be considered as the sme person - except for the LaClcas, the landlords.

[Andre II]

28. Vietnam is a beautiful country!

I agree that we have to distinct between the possibility that one person worked as double for several alleged hijackers and some alleged hijackers seem to have doubles only due to a papertrail left on purpose.Certainly the possibility that every alleged hijacker had his own double is just one of many.

The main important thing is to prove the presence of doubles. This has to be explained and so far nobody ever has tried to explain them. Second comes to understand how the different trails were created.

[medienanalyse]

31. I disagree

"The main important thing is to prove the presence of doubles. This has to be explained and so far nobody ever has tried to explain them. Second comes to understand how the different trails were created."

No. We are not to prove this or that, not at first and not second. We can obviously show that the allegations of the U.S. officials are false claims. They are the prosecutors, they must prove their case. And untill now they faailed miserably.

The point to state is more open: the identity of the alleged "hijackers" is unclear (this we can prove). Additionally if these persons were the perpetrators is unclear too. This we can prove.

So the question "doubles" or not and how
remains secondary - but not to be misunderstood: most important !

[Beelzebud]

29. I know 2 people named Mike Ward. I guess that is a conspiracy too.

[Andre II]

30. LOL

What an ingenious comment!
If you would bother just for one second to read even more than the headline of this thread you'd realize that we're talking here about the Mohamed Atta considered to have been a hijacker on 911 on two different places at the same time. Why don't you at least the OP before making comments like I know two George Bushs as well...

[pberq]

32. Thanks for the good research, Andre II

[Andre II]

33. I'm only

the messanger!
Thanks
:toast:

[Andre II]

34. New update

Here the summary of the new update by John Doe II (there are updates on all alleged hijackers btw):
SUMMARY:
Mohamed Atta is certainly the alleged hijacker can be best proven that he had a double.
The list is long when he was at two different places basically at the same time:
September 7, 2001 alone is a very convincing example. The same goes for September 8, 2001 -when either Atta is in two different places at the same time or somebody exactly acting like Atta is in a place where Atta had been seen before already).
For further details: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?6.1704
Furthermore the Atta witnessed in the Phillipines (1998-2000) is in strong contradiction to the official Atta being in Germany at that time.
The same goes for Atta being reported as having asked for a job at Frankfurt airport in February 2001 while officially being in the US.
One witness sees Atta in Logan Airport on the morning of September 9 though he was officially in Balitimore.
Atta was witnessed in Hamburg in April 2001 although he officially didn’t leave the country at that time.
Atta is supposed to have vacated his Hamburg flat on March 11, 2001 although officially he’s in the US at that time.
Atta is also witnessed in Hamburg in April 2001 although he officially is still in the US at that time.
There are reports of Atta studying in Spain in 1997 and 1998 although he is seen studying in Hamburg at the same time.
A credit card receipt seems to place Atta in New York on September 10 though he was officially in Boston and later the day in Portland.
Even the official program “Able Danger” that is much in the news is strong evidence for this alleged hijacker having a double: How come Atta was identified by Able Danger as being part of the Brooklyn group in January 2000 though Atta officially only arrived in June 2000?
And how come Able Danger also uncovered Atta and Al Shehhi living in Wayne (close to Paterson) while officially they have been at that time in Florida?
Atta’s repeatedly witnessed presence in Toronto does hardly fit with the official timeline neither. See “The month leading to September 11”.

Last but not least the strange fact shall be noted that Atta was registered in Germany as an Emirati not an Egyptean. Why did he use a second passport which could only cause problems (he worked in Germany, asked for a scholarship, studied, gave tutorials etc. All activities that requiring passport)
Furthermore several strong indications underline the presence of two Attas:
On documents we see two clearly different hand writings:
On the one hand are his signatures of the different car rentals on the other hand his Florida driver’s licence and his application at the Florida department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
(Please note the differences in the “M” and the “A” and the fact that one is written without interruption)
His English is sometimes described as almost without accent sometimes as bad and heavily accented. In Germany he speaks almost without accent although he only learnt German just before entering the country but Rudi Dekkers in Venice remarked that Atta didn’t seem to understand German.
And in Germany he is described as being almost 5’ 4’’. In the US we have estimations of 5’ 8’’ and even 5’ 10’’ (his visa application states also 5-feet-8).
Please note that the photo is his ID presented at the Moussaoui trial doesn’t resemble him at all. (See document section)
Why do the LaConcas not recognize him on any photo presented to them by the FBI (See “Height” in background information)?
Some evidence underline that somebody with the same name as Atta was in the US before his official date of entry:
Why did he rent apartments in New York clearly before entering the States?
And how come people state they might have witnessed Atta in Hollywood already in 1999?
Further important issues:
Atta received a visa in May 2000 although he was under the observation of the CIA.
Why didn’t the fact that somebody called Mohamed Atta was responsible for a bus bombing 1986 in Israel pose no problem to Atta at any time obtain his papers?
Why does Atta overstay his visa by no less then 32 days and decides to leave the US and test his luck when re-entering on January 10, 2001? Why this lack of carefulness? Is the official explanation for Atta entering with two different INS papers convincing?
How come that Rudi Dekkers not only had the impression Atta had already had flight training but also saw in his logbook that he already had done previous flight hours?
Please note that right after 911 Atta had strong ties to Vero Beach. But this will never be reported ever since. For further details: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.35
Note that apparently the name on his luggage on 911 is “Moham Atta”. For further details: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.1686
The strange resurfacing of Mohamed Arajaki who claims to have been the boy-friend of Amanda Keller and mistaken for Atta!
See: http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?7.192
Why does the name with which Atta signed his testament not show up on the list of alias by the FBI?
How come the finnlist mentions a quite different name?
How come the finnlist mentions an address in Delray Beach, Washington and Baltimore?
And why on earth does the finnlist mentions “Marwan Al Shehhi” as an alias for Atta?
Please note the strange circumstances surrounding Atta’s short stay in Prague end of May/beginning of June 2000.
Why does the FBI state Atta had a Florida ID while the Commission denies this (July 2001 A)?
Please also note that according to first accounts Atta held a passport of the United Arab Emirate while the FBI had already declared he is Egyptian.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/14/bn.01.html
Terrorist Travel doesn’t it mention.

http://www.team8plus.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?2484.10

People who don't believe that Atta had a double have a LOT of explaining to do...

[Andre II]

35. Kick

in view of new discovery
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[Andre II]

36. Kick

in view of the finding that Atta officially left Florida on September 7 at 3.15 while being witnessed drinking heavily the late afternoon in Shuckums, Hollywood, FL.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x107048

[Ferry Fey]

37. Suicide of Boston AA employee who checked in Atta?

Thread in Daily Kos on Monday discussed Michael Tuohey. the US Airways employee who checked in Atta in Portland, and is now wracked with guilt. It links to an Oprah interview with him in September 2005, and a Yankee magazine interview that seems to be current.

The Yankee magazine interview states that:

Oprah Winfrey, with Tuohey as her studio guest, told 20 million viewers that a woman who'd worked at American Airlines in Boston had later killed herself. Earlier, Oprah's producer had told Tuohey she had a message from the woman's husband: "It's not your fault."

A couple of posters on the DKos thread ask questions about this un-named employee who checked Atta in at Boston, and say they haven't heard of this and can't find any corroboration. No name is given for the woman, or any source for the news of her death. I don't remember hearing anything about this myself.

Can anyone substantiate this alleged suicide?

DKOS thread:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/11/193549/448

Yankee magazine
http://www.yankeemagazine.com/thisissue/features/fiveyears911.php

[Andre II]

38. Ferry Fey

Hi,

maybe you should start a new thread on this topic in order to get more attention to your question.
Best regards,
Andre II

[Ferry Fey]

39. I'll give it its own thread

I figured that those exploring Atta's information might be more likely to know. But yes, I'll start it as a new topic too.