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IconoclastIlene Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 02:15 PM
Original message
No child left behind? Mine was, no funding for my kid's problem
and he has a PPD called Asperger's syndrome.

How in hell can his teachers help him when they don't know what the hell it is, either.

Answer: they can't.

There was SUPPOSED to be funding, not lip service for the seminars that teachers were to go to in order to learn about newly diagnosed childhood pervasive personality disorders.

How many more are left behind?

My kid could maybe get some help in Iraq?

Fuck 'em all, the repubs, the dems who let this creep get away it it and no thanks to anybody for all the lies and deceptions.

Im glad Iraqi kids will not be left behind........

:wtf:
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shaolinmonkey Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm very sorry to hear that. My wife works in adapted physical education
and it's a terribly underfunded area of education. Your child and children like him deserve an education, but * doesn't care.

I hope President Kerry will do a better job for our kids and their teachers.
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fugue Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is terribly important!
I am an adult with Asperger's. My life has been very difficult because the people around me are unacquainted with the condition. I think there should not only be funding for teachers to learn about it but for other students to.

I'm surprised at the PPD label . . . and don't like it much. It implies (to me anyway) that it's something we can do something about, and that's the first message the NT (neurotypical) world has to get: we can't. Our brains are just plain wired differently. We ain't like you, and we ain't ever gonna be like you. We'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to remake us in your image.

Of course that's not gonna happen until the world gets to know us better. And that, of course, would require funding for programs like the one you mention. . . .
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IconoclastIlene Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Glad you have an upbeat attitude!!!!
I sincerely mean that; my son has gone through hell, as have we all and only money for education will make anything better.

No matter what it is, hey, everyone is different, everyone deserves to see their tax dollars at work here at home, not so that

NO IRAQI CHILDREN LEFT BEHIND ACT becomes a reality.

The lack of funding on this and tons of even more important things that the USA needs and that is being siphoned off by these crooks and depriving us here of what medical, health, and who knows what else is laying, fomenting for lack of funds, this is a travesty!!!!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I talked to a single mother today who could not afford to send her child
to Head Start. It now cost $160/month
This was a program set up to help poor and disadvantage kids (handicapped) get a head start so they could compete in public school.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. What!!!
Tell me more, give me links, county and state, what the fucking hell is that about??? Charging for Head Start??? When did this happen??? I am livid.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. It is in Ohio, not sure if Cyahoga or Lorain county
my mistake for not asking more. It is hard to tell where someone lives around here, the counties all run together, people shopping back and forth.
I assumed it was part of the NCLB initiative.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Thank you
I'll see what else I can find out about this. I can't imagine paying for Head Start because I don't know of a Head Start program that ever had any room for extra kids that might be above the income guidelines or something. They can't serve the kids that qualify, let alone any extras.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. I Have Autistic Daughter, SO Much Politics In This!
Do you think BushCo is EVER going to look into what factors caused his explosion in disorders on the autistic spectrum?

A couple of weeks I went to a DAN conference (Defeat Autism Now) and to listen to these doctors talk -- many of them have kids "on the spectrum" too and this is how they got into it.

BushCo is fully owned and operated by those who may be contributing to the autism epidemic, including the pharmecueticals. The mercury-based preservative in our kids' vaccines is one suspect, but they will not do sufficient studies, they won't fund them. Mercury in the air, in fish (especially canned tuna which if anybody out there is pregnant, I highly recommend not eating during the pregnancy!) etc. also will not get decent funding for studies because they have powerful lobbyists.

EVERY SINGLE DOCTOR AT THE DAN CONFERENCE WAS STAUNCHLY ANTI-BUSH! My own pediatrician wears a Kerry button in her office. These people are masters at weapons of mass distraction, the Mary Cheney story being the latest ridiculous, meaningless distraction. There's a special place in hell waiting for the pious, evil BushCo clan and all of their special interests, they are literally poisoning our children, I really believe that.
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IconoclastIlene Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Bravo!!! Couldn't Have said it better!!!
I wish everyone luck with the problems our offspring have inherited from who knows where and what, but something polluted these kids someplace in the food chain.......I don't even think organic food is organic, as such, cause everything on this earth is polluted now.

We are going to become a nation and a world of individuals who have every sort of disease, unimmaginable in times gone by, at this rate.

I'd never have a baby with these things going on as they are!!!!!!
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fugue Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Oo, "Defeat Autism Now"?
Uh, as an autistic, may I comment how much the name of that organization gives me the creeping heebie-jeebies?

Yeah, I'm with you on classic autism. As far as I can tell, there is no upside to that condition. Asperger's, however, is a different kettle of fish, even though it's on the spectrum. There is certainly an upside to Asperger's: if I were NT, I probably wouldn't have the IQ I have, I almost certainly wouldn't rock so completely on detail-oriented tasks (my boss's assessment, so no ego here!), I would experience and conceptualize the world in a completely different manner. I would be someone else. And there are those heebie-jeebies again. . . .

I don't want to be NT. If they came up with a way to do it tomorrow, I would refuse, even if the government took away the independence assistance I get because of being an Aspie. What I want is for NT people to understand me and accept me as I am. The thought of eliminating or preventing Aspies via some "treatment" makes my blood run cold.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. I Understand
Thank you! I'm sure you know that many autistic children are very, very low-functioning and a lot of them have physical problems as well, especially in regard to digestive issues, etc.

I've seen some very frustrated, unhappy autistic children bloom with loving interventions.

I myself decided not to do very "in your face" treatments such as ABB for my daughter because of the simple fact that she is basically a very happy person. She is always smiling and laughing, but I do try to get her to be more communicative and higher functioning.

She is speaking and reading now -- not like a 10 year old but they told me she wouldn't be able to, ever.

I do worry about the future of all retarded & mentally disabled people, if the "compassionate conservatives" get four more years. What if something happened to us, do I live in the kind of country where here needs would be taken care of if she wasn't self-sufficient? Sadly, I doubt the answer to that question. That's the kind of society I would like to live in.
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fugue Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Once upon a time . . .
To be Christian meant to look at the unfortunate and say, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." The official line was that the suffering were in the world to inspire humility and compassion in the rest of us.

Now, they take it that God has refused that grace to the unfortunate because they are lacking. Right. I'm supposed to believe that a compassionate deity allows little children to be afflicted with debilitating conditions because they or their parents are lacking? If that's the way God operates, I'm willing to join the revolution against him.

As I said in response to another post in this thread, we need to drive home to all those who think social programs should be replaced by private charity that catastrophe is not voluntary and therefore there is no reason that its redress should be. Government social programs are not provided out of the goodness of tax payers' hearts: they're insurance policies recognizing that anyone in the country can be hit with certain expensive catastrophes. My therapist has told me more than one story about clients she has had who were passionate Republicans . . . until they got hit with one of those unexpected catatrophes that they hadn't really believed in before it happened to them.

I am glad that your daughter is happy. That's the majority of the battle. I hope that someday she finds herself in a society that understands that she could have easily been the daughter of any other member and therefore is willing to invest in her continued happiness.

But I do wish DAN would change its name. How about "Defeat Classic Autism Now"?
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. One of my grandson's has Asperger's syndrome
Thank God they live in a northeast "liberal" state and an enlightened school district. He's getting a lot of help. However, the No Child Left Behind Act is a real obstacle to his being mainstreamed. I love this kid so much, it would destroy me to see that he isn't getting the help he needs.

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csw77 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. I totally understand
My son will be "left behind" by this "wonderful" little plan as well. He is Autistic and his preschool teacher has already let us know that he will barely get any services once he reaches school age. I have spoke with several teachers and they are so clueless about Autism. You would think that with PDD on the rise people would want to learn more about it but nope. In my school district you only matter if you are rich, making perfect grades, and playing all the sports.

It angers me so much that there are so many kids out there who are hurt so much by NCLB.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. My kid has a unusually high IQ
And the fricker didn't allocate anything for them either.

If you don't have the a-typical 2.5 kids living behind that white picket fence, that happens to fall in the typical learning curve, you're on your own.

In Bush's world you can afford a private school or the kid slips through the cracks.

It's compassionate conservatism at work.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just when I thought I couldn't hate * any more...
along comes this heartbreaking thread.

My heart goes out to you parents. God I hope we can get that squatter out of the White House!!!
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. My daughter's services have been cut as well
She has autism, and it is very frustrating to fight for everything she needs. The teachers really WANT to do the right thing, but there is not enough money. I have done some of the training myself, and have managed to find other resources to provide trainings free of charge to the school.

Last year I had a really shocking conversation with the special education staffer in Congressman Boehner's (R-Ohio) office. I still feel ill when I recall him telling me that I should be grateful for the services my child receives because they were provided out of the goodness of taxpayers' hearts. And like a typical Republican PIG, the guy told me that part of the problem in special ed were all those "frivolous" lawsuits initiated by the parents of kids with special needs.

I have been actively involved in political advocacy for the rights of kids with disabilities for more than 10 years, and I have never been so frightened and so disgusted as I have been by the recent revelation of the ugly face of "compassionate conservatism".

P.S.- Madame Bovary, do you live near a college/ university with a special education program? I found a great community outreach program at a local university in which doctoral and graduate students actually came into the school and did some training and made some recommendations.
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fugue Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. What to tell the education staffer . . .
Charity should be voluntary only when catastrophe becomes so.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I like that fugue
I'm afraid my response to that staffer was rather impolite. I get so angry by some of these folks who look at only the up front costs of special education.

When my daughter was diagnosed, we were told she would probably never talk. My daughter has made tremendous progress by getting intensive therapy when she was younger. We were fortunate enough to be able to afford this therapy. Other families are not as fortunate, and that is morally wrong. How do you put a price tag on giving a child the ability to communicate?



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Chimpanzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. I understand
I have a 14 yr old son with Aspergers. I love him so much - thank God the military probably can't take him! (not over my dead body)
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IconoclastIlene Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. One Silver Lining to the Cloud
That was the exact same thoughts that went running through my head, yes and "over my dead body, also".......
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. Absolutely! Both of my parents, and aunt, and a cousin are teachers,
and they knew from the beginning that both kids and teachers were going to get screwed by NCLB. What a crock of shit.
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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. There's a wonderful book
(fiction) about a boy with Asperger's called "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time" by Mark Haddon. I think it's still on one of the NYT bestsellers lists. It's set in England and I bawled like a baby in the first few pages because I have a "Wellington." But it shows how the boy deals with the things happening in his life from his own unique point of view.
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Darby Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. PLEASE send your story in to www.securitymomsforkerry.com
Edited on Thu Oct-14-04 10:47 PM by Darby
www.securitymomsforkerry.com


Click on "Send Us Your Story".


Also - take a look at the section under "No Child Left Behind".


Good flyers to hand out on the subject here:

http://bigpath.net/politics/Education/EducationStart.html
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IconoclastIlene Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. I sent my story and I hope they can use it.........
for good purposes; that being, the welfare of our children; the future of our country.:kick:
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. Leave No Child Behind (LNCB)


1) The project isn’t funded…The requirements for schools are unreasonable and will lead to even good schools failing and potentially being shut down because it demands sustained growth in test scores. It is punititive, rather than fixing schools it's solution is to punish bad schools, which of course will only make them worse, leading to them being shut down. It is designed to kill public education.

2) Another is that it forces a standard on the schools but doesn't provide funding to enact the means to reach the test goals.

3 )Culturally biased testing used as a means to justify the destruction of public education.

Rather than paying teachers a living wage NCLB puts the onus on the teachers to prove that their students can pass these tests engineered to be biased against the schools that need the most assistance. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

This is propogandically used to justify voucher programs that siphon off public funds from public schools to right wing fundamentalist "Christian" schools and other elitists private education schools.

4) If schools can't pull out of probation after so many years, the federal government will take them over. The end result will be privatization of schools, which will surely put a pretty profit into those that own stock in the *school* companies.
5) Schools must always show improvement. So if your school gets an "A," where do you go from there? In a public school system, there will always be students who do not meet success rates. This is not accounted for.

6) It's just plain stupid. My school district will never be considered as "making adequate yearly progress" even though it's one of the better districts in the state.

Why? Because we have a separate school for middle/high school students who are discipline problems. The students are sent to this school for a 9-week grading period, or more if necessary, and get more intensive instruction and stricter discipline. It's been a wonderful addition to our schools -- these students are given the opportunity to improve at their own pace, and the regular schools have fewer discipline problems so classes are not disrupted.

What does this have to do with NCLB? Well, because this school is a temporary way station for students, no one graduates from it. Therefore, under NCLB rules, it has a 0% graduation rate (even though its students graduate from their home high schools). That 0% affects every school in the district and makes it impossible for any high school to get a passing grade.

7) Teaching to the test, Manipulating results, and unfunded mandates First it creates an environment where they are forced to teach to the test or lose their funding.

Second it is a known factor that when money is a factor people will bend things to get it. We have seen how the test results get fudged in various charter schools and programs in Texas. Kids mysteriously vanish from the school rolls without dropping out. Kids are pressured to opt out. All to keep the money flowing. Its a bad bad idea.

And third is the fact that the no child left behind is really a means to dismantle the public education system. Its the Bush Inc formula. Dress up as the champion of something. Strut around proposing programs. Get them put in place. And then do not fund them. This not only destroys the program but because the system you drop this one is struggling to make it work they de-fund all the other programs to keep it alive. Like George's shot at NASA. You simply give them a white elephant they cannot take care of and then make sure they do not have the resources to keep it up. Its a win-win for the right. They dismantle the government and make it look like passing new programs is useless.
8) Military recruiters will have unrestricted and uncontested access to schools participating in the No Child Left Behind Act, which means all the well off kids attending private schools don't have to put up with fliers or an accelerated draft notice.
9) I'm an educator in training and have learned a bit about why NCLB is lunacy. The nuts and bolts of NCLB is that schools must have X percent of their student body pass all the standardized tests administered by the state every year. The percent increases every year up through 2011, when the act officially ends.

The problems:

- The percentage goes up gradually until about 2008-2009, when schools have to have close to 97% of their students receiving passing scores on standardized tests. By 2011, schools must have 100% of their students passing the tests. That's right, 100%. If the schools don't have 100% passing, they're subject to disciplinary action by the state and federal government, up to and including firing teachers and administrators. I don't know about the rest of you, but I consider the expectation all students will pass standardized tests to be about as reasonable as expecting a cow to jump over the moon.

- As if 100% passing wasn't bad enough, the act forces schools to include all their students to be included in standardized test scores. That means all the students with learning disabilities, emotional disabilities, physical impairments and so on must take the tests and their scores must count toward the school's overall score. Even worse, the NCLB act recognizes eight different "minority" subgroups of which a student can be a part, ranging from ethnic minorities to those with the disabilities mentioned above. Any of these groups are considered to exist in a school if the school has ten or more members of that group. Any one student can be a member of more than one group, so, theoretically, a black student with dyslexia would qualify as a member of two groups. Here's the kicker: if any one minority group in a school doesn't pass the exams, then the whole school is considered to be failing, even if the overall percentage of students passing is higher than that required by NCLB. One now sees how the practice of having students exist in multiple groups is utterly devastating towards a school's chances of passing. If the black, dyslexic child mentioned above does poorly, then that child's scores help submarine the average in two minority groups. The only explanation for such a backwards way of doing things is because the Bush administration wants to submarine public schools. Not only will public schools (particularly schools in poor areas) not meet the overall standards, any school with a lot of "problem" kids will never pass because their minority groups will tend to fail.

- Perhaps the most damning critique of NCLB, however, has nothing to do with its simplistic, asinine mechanics. Many state school standards around the country were actually getting away from using only standardized tests as a judge of a student's performance. Schools were considering grades, portfolios and more evaluative measures of a student's performance to determine whether the student was learning. The ONLY component of NCLB, on the other hand, is performance on standardized test scores. Making test scores the sole criterion of judgments forces teachers to "dumb down" the curriculum in a way that's a million times worse than any conservative ever complained about occurring in a public school. Students aren't dumb: if you emphasize processing skills only and don't encourage them to think critically, you'll get a bunch of robots who only care about the "right answers" to things. Creativity and critical thinking are stifled. We preach about needing wizened, tech-savvy kids to fulfill tomorrow's jobs, but all we do is pander to a culture who thinks constant testing equals education. This is the true disaster of NCLB.
10) To destroy the union. The teacher’s union is a very strong and mostly democrats (the teacher’s union, always lends its support to the democratic candidate in presidential elections) Democrats tend to spend more on education and school funding then do the republicans.
The NCLB was thought up in conservative ‘think tanks’ it meets all the republicans fascist objectives…
It destroys a democratic union, it will force school vouchers, it will give our federal tax dollars to private and Christian schools, it will keep the poor of our population, dumb, under-educated slaves for the corporate machine, it gives the military access to the young, for propaganda intent on students, it makes it appear, that the republican fascist, care and are trying to do something for ‘education’ in this country.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. You are 100% correct
I am a special ed teacher in an urban public school district. Three years ago, right after NCLB became law, Rod Paige came here on a 'promotional tour' for the new law. He visited a charter school and a Catholic school and praised them as examples of excellence in inner city education.

Here's the kick - neither one of those schools falls under the NCLB umbrella. Since they are not traditional public schools, they do not have to do any of the testing, meet any of the unfunded mandates or worry about the consequences if they don't meet AYP.

Now why would Rod Paige visit these schools if they aren't held accountable under NCLB? Can you say v-o-u-c-h-e-r-s??? How about s-c-h-o-o-l c-h-o-i-c-e???

Oh, and the excellent Catholic school he visited closed last year. Not enough money to keep it going.

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Hailtothechimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
27. Mine is left behind because her school district won't pay to bus her.
So my 5 year old is expected to cross numerous busy streets all by herself each day. My $1000 child tax credit will be eaten up by all of the alternate arrangements I'll have to make instead. But nobody ever thinks about it in those terms, do they?
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-04 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. Both of my son's are NLD Nonverbal Learning Disorder
which they are beginning to think is just another component to Aspergers.

They have 504's and this year has been better than before but that is because of the teachers. Luckily their accommodations don't cost money.
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