Dean likes whites-only golf?

[meow mix]

and the confederate flag?
figures...

saw this posted.

It turns out his parents were members, and that he himself was the guest speaker at the Maidstone Club last year - on June 23, 2002.

For those not familiar with the Maidstone Club, it is a most exclusive club in East Hampton, New York. It has never had a black member - in fact, when Maidstone member Arne Naess married Diana Ross (which would have made her a member), he resigned, only to rejoin the club when they divorced. Historically, it has been a New England blueblood equivalent of Bob Jones University or the Daughters of the Confederacy, excluding Jews, African-Americans, and any other types they deemed undesirable.

[AP]

1. see, that's the background which leads him to get so upset when

his office manager isn't hiring enough white men.

[GOPisEvil]

2. Can you provide a citation for that?

Please?

[curse10]

4. It is rather well known his parents are members

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/politics/national/n_8376/

it's in the standard bio- don't know about the appearance though

[curse10]

6. and he did speak there

http://www.fundforahealthyamerica.com/OldCalendar.asp

[GOPisEvil]

18. Thanks!

*in Johnny Carson voice* I did not know that.

[curse10]

19. No problem

but I don't know the history of the Maidstone Club, so I have no idea what their membership policies are- I couldn't find that in google :-)

[adriennel]

3. was his wife a member?

I believe she is Jewish.

[Nazgul35]

7. oooppppssss.....

dont confuse a good attempt at sliming the front runner with the facts...

[YEM]

8. She is Jewish and they raised their kids jewish..

Gee, what a surprise! Another bash Dean thread. I don't see this much hate on the Hannity boards!

[auntpattywatty]

JUDITH IS JEWISH AND THE CHILDREN ARE RAISED JEWISH

[AP]

14. And this is the club his parents belonged to when he was groing up

and it's in NY, not in VT.

[LuminousX]

24. The sins of the parent are the sins of the child? Bull.

[curse10]

28. well, he did speak there

eom

[LuminousX]

63. Sure, but it isn't as bad as Bob Jones and saying so is ... incorrect

Unless more proof from organizations like the NAACP, I'm not going to accept that this is a grave issue. Maidstone's first professional golfer was black. Maidstone definately has minority members (didn't find articles on African-American members, only Cuban, who actively promote the end of sanctions against Cuba.)

[AP]

38. The child is the father of the man.

Dean, as a child, saw the rewards of wealth and power.

Why is this man running for president? What is he trying to do? What motivates him?

[rustydog]

5. So the divisive race-card is being played...

it is an ugly and cheap-shot for politicians to use.
Try issues and candidates stance on them.

[bearfartinthewoods]

58. ok...on the issue of private clubs that exclude people based on religion

or race, where do you stand? would you make a speech at such a club in order to advance a political campaign?

i'd love to see a transcript of that speech.

[Monte Carlo]

9. Oh come on, be nice.

Dean may have connections to these places and he may have been the governor of the whitest state in the Union, but I really don't think he enjoys whites-only golf.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. of course not

he's not driving those golf carts himself!

[AP]

13. The issue is life experiences and values. I don't know about you all,

but I think it makes a difference when presidents have first-hand experience of the real America.

[dajabr]

15. Cipriani in NY called...

Senator Kerry's usual table is ready.

Or, was it 21 Club this week?

[AP]

20. Exactly. Biography matters alot.

You agree?

[dajabr]

30. Yes, why should I hold Edward's Diebold holdings in 1998 against him...

either? $100,000 - $250,000? WOW!

:eyes:

edit to add link: http://www.bop2004.org/bop2004/dw/Edwards/FD_98.pdf

[AP]

47. And that has to do with Dean's privileged childhood, how?

- Does Edwards's fund manger run a whites only fund?
- Did Edwards not work for the money he earned to buy stocks?
- In 1998 Edwards wasn't even a politician. Does he own Diebold today?
- Lauch Faircloth, his oponent in '98, was one of the biggest recipients of Diebold money.
- Edwards takes no PAC money or DC lobbyist money, so what is your allegation about the influence?
- How much Diebold stock did Edwards own since he started criticizing electronic voting?

[dajabr]

66. Oh, I thought this was the cherry-pick and smear thread?(nt)

[HFishbine]

48. Ruh roh!

That won't sit well with DUers.

AP, do you remember our discussion about Edwards accepting money from lobbyists? Is it any more interesting that the lobbyist I referred to was for FedEx and we now see that Edwards' holdings included FDX stock? If Edwards voted on some legislation that benefited FedEx, that would be interesting, no?

[AP]

53. Look up Lauch Faircloth's campaing contributions from Diebold.

Diebold wanted Faircloth in '98 badly.

I don't think they cared that Edwards held their stock.

And I don't remember the discussion about Edwards accepting mony from lobbyists. He doesn't take money from DC lobbyists. Got a link?

[AP]

59. just looked at those filings.

There are about 10 pages X 35 companies per page of company bonds and stocks listed, and maybe 1/4 to 1/3 have higher levels of investments than Diebold.

Edwards made about 250,000,000 for his injured clients in less than 20 years of practicising law. If you got a third of that, that's a lot of money. He invested it in an incredibly diversified portfolio (which was probably managed by someone else, perhaps buying up stocks for Republica insiders, as any professional with a brokerage account can tell you burned them in 2001).

A candidate like Dean should be embarrassed of what Edwards achieved with NO connections and family money, and by working hard and intelligently for PEOPLE who were wronged by big, wealthy companies -- which, on every count, is the opposite of what people like Dean and Bush have done with their lives.

[ozone_man]

79. He was a personal injury lawyer?

I guess if making a lot of money and not caring how you made it is what is important, then Edwards did well. Dean and his wife became family physcians and moved to Vermont, sending their kids through publics schools, just like mine. It's about choices, not who your parents were.

[cryofan]

52. A-f***ing-men!

THat is why I turned away from Dean, along with the fact that he governed as a pro-business, status quo Republicrat....

[bearfartinthewoods]

76. then why did he speak there?

why do pubbies go to bob jones? because they are willing to sell out any respect for an inclusive society for the sake of politics.

and why did dean do it?

[dajabr]

11. "I don't want some fucking hillbilly for president."

Here's an equally ridiculous assumption from the other side of the coin:

http://www.weeklydig.com/dig/content/5437.aspx

[TexasPatriot]

17. trust me

we have a hillbilly as president.
he replaced a hillbilly who was president for 8 years
before that, we had another hillbilly as president.
before that we had reagan - who was more cowboy than hillbilly
before that we had a hillbilly with a brother named billy

i'd suggest there's a hillbilly meme, but i dont want to be shot.

;)

[dsc]

43. Bush 1 was a hill billy?

are you daft? On what planet is that Conneticut blue blood whose dad was loaded a hillbilly?

[TexasPatriot]

49. yeah, Bush I was a stretch

how about 'Hillbilly Poser'...

[oasis]

73. He loved his pork rinds. mmmmm good

:-)

[RetroLounge]

12. POOP

eom

[Ardee]

16. I love the double standard

Bush speaks at Bob Jones U. and folks write outraged prose, yet Dean the beloved speaks at a similarly structured contemptably out of touch club and he is excused.

[MaineDem]

22. That was kinda my thoughts

Any candidate should have an appearance like this disclosed.

It's not a "bashing Dean" issue as much as getting information out.

[AP]

34. Matt Gonzalez had a privileged childhood. As an adult...

... he gave away his cars to people who needed them more. He opened the doors of his apartment to people who needed a roof over their heads, and he pursued politics which helped a majority of people get ahead, have more wealth, and have a dignified life.

So, obviously, experiences don't tell you everything. But when someone comes from a life like Dean's, you have to ask, is he or she conducting themselves in a way that is thinks critically about where they come from, or does it reflect unquestioningly the values inculcated.

Dean may have married a Jewish wife although belonging to a club that would have excluded her. However, he pursued economic policies in VT which seem to embrace the notion that Wall St knows what's best for America, and that wealth trickles down from big businesses and individuals you help to make wealthier.

[LizW]

46. Just to be clear

I don't think it was in the original post that Dean belongs to this club. Either provide a link or don't embellish.

[curse10]

50. correct, he isn't a member, but he spoke there last year

and his parents are members

[AP]

51. He grew up in a family which was members. Nobody says he belongs now.

But everyone admits this is the world in which he grew up.

Dean went to St George's, a boarding school in Rhode Island. While he was there, they had their first black student. That student dropped out before finishing.

Hom many of us grew up in a world without any black faces until attending college?

[HFishbine]

21. "saw this posted."

Where? Link?

[curse10]

23. I've supplied links

look above.

His parents were member of the Maidstone Club, it's in his standard bio, and he did speak there in June 2002. However, I do not know about Maidstone's membership policies.

[curse10]

25. And it's true, they have no black members

http://www.ihamptons.com/ijournaldoc.ihtml?item=50

and they denied Clinton access.

[LuminousX]

57. Maidstone's first Professional golfer was African-American

[HFishbine]

39. Non answer

Thanks for the links you provided, however I was inquiring where the original poster "saw this posted."

[TexasPatriot]

42. too good for Clinton to play there

http://www.ihamptons.com/ijournaldoc.ihtml?item=50

-- snip --
The New York Post's Neal Travis reports today (August 31) that East Hampton's Maidstone Club refused to allow President Clinton to play golf on their links last weekend during his fundraising blitz in the Hamptons with First Lady Hillary Clinton. Mr. Travis reported "This bastion of old WASP families considers itself too good for the president of the United States."
-- snip --

you know, i'm not sure clinton even wanting to play there was such a great idea... but the fact that he was snubbed makes this place even lower on the food chain.

[meow mix]

curse has better ones

sorry was getting ready for work. ty curse =)

[curse10]

37. no problem

a few minutes on google will give you a wealth of information :-)

[w13rd0]

26. source?

and already, from this undocumented thread, you have someone who obviously doesn't favor Dean, inferring that Dean gave a speech at this location...nice...that's how Bush "plays the game"...toss some bullshit against the wall, and then run around telling everyone your neighbor is pelting their houses with crap...

[Stuckinthebush]

27. I heard from another poster that he also eats babies

That baby-eating-white-only-club-attending SOB!

[bitchkitty]

29. "Saw this posted"

now there's an endorsement!

Why aren't you promoting your candidate? Hopeless cause? ;)

[curse10]

35. Here ya go

his parents were members...

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/politics/national/n_8376/

he spoke there...

http://www.fundforahealthyamerica.com/OldCalendar.asp

and it's an exclusive whites-only club...

http://www.ihamptons.com/ijournaldoc.ihtml?item=50

[dsc]

31. Yes Dean should have shot his parents dead

Of course he isn't a member, now is he? He has a Jewish wife, jewish kids (both raised and by Jewish law). If I have kids are they gay alcoholics too? The only, possibly relevent thing here, is his speech which I would like to find out more about.

[AP]

54. He shouldn't have governed so pro-business if he wanted to be Dem nominee

for president.

That's what it comes down to. The biography fills in the gaps.

[chiburb]

32. Flamebait...

As an undecided, this does NOTHING to inform me about Dean's qualities or lack thereof. The header itself is inflamatory. Dean is NOT a member of a whites only club, he golfed there. There are no women members at Augusta, but they golf there.
This thread is a joke.

[meow mix]

40. uhuh

i was asking if its true

didnt suprise me.. that it is true, though ;p

[Corgigal]

33. More stupid shit

Do you guys need Rove's paychecks for Christmas or what?

I will make sure the guy who runs Dean's meetups, a black congressman is aware of this information.

I guess by this logic, since I dated a man from Iran when I was in the military, he was also, I was aiding a soon to be terrorist.

Like the republicans are going to ever call a Dem racist. Go ahead, I dare them.

[ozymandius]

36. Does this have anything to do with Willie Horton?

Sounds like something Bush would use as a campaign issue.

[Ficus]

41. threads like this one

make me :puke:

[Spentastic]

44. If it were not for that "?" this post would be libellous

As it is it's just stupid.

Does Dean support the club's policies?

Perhaps someone should ask him.

[AP]

62. The point is: this is the world in which he grew up.

Maybe this is why he has the ideas about race that he has (subconscious prefferences in hiring are the final frontier in the civil rights battle) and maybe this is the world which led him to believe that helping Wall St make money is the best thing you can do with your life.

[Spentastic]

67. Like Tony Blair you mean?

Sorry Ap untrue but I couldn't resist it

[AP]

71. You've lost me. This IS the world in which Dean grew up. +

And he does lots of things as an adult, and especially as a politician, which reflect his roots.

By the way, aren't you the person who was upset that Blair wanted to educated too many people in the UK? You think that education needs to be reserved for a few so that its value isn't dilluted?

And, let me get this straight, you also like Dean?

Figures.

[Spentastic]

74. It was a joke man!

I grew up in a town that had no black people.

Am I a racist?

[AP]

78. Nobody said Dean was a racist.

If you grew up in America in the late 60s and early 70s and didn't have social interaction with African-Americans until you were a student at Yale, I wouldn't think that would make you a racist. However, I'd wonder what you really understood about the America I know.

[Muddleoftheroad]

45. What crap!

Anyone who follows the threads here knows I'm no Deanie. That said, I treat him like every other candidate -- good and bad.

This is downright silly. He gets the blame because his parents belonged? No. That is bogus.

He gets the blame IF he spoke there? No, if his parents belonged, it is unsurprising that he might have spoken there.

This is a PRIVATE club. As such, they can exclude anyone -- me, you, Clinton, * , anyone.

I he belonged, I'd bust him up for it. He doesn't.

[LuminousX]

55. Maidstone Information

Admittedly, I know very little about Maidstone Club, so I'm in the midst of gathering information about it.

Maidstone's first professional golfer was black
John continued in golf when he was hired as the first golf professional at the Maidstone club in East Hampton shortly after the conclusion of the tournament. He eventually wound up as the head pro at the black-owned Shady Rest Golf and Country Club in Scotch Plains, New Jersey. His love of the game of golf sadly ended with his death on May 20,1968.

Maidstone members include pro-Cubans
Duke, known to her friends as Luly, is one of the most prominent Cuban-Americans to come out against the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba and a ban on Americans traveling to the Caribbean island. She is helping to lead a national campaign to lift the embargo, open Cuba to Americans and increase ties between the estranged nations.
...
Luly Duke has slipped easily into high society, enjoying memberships in the Maidstone Club in East Hampton and the Piping Rock Club in Locust Valley.

Google search on Maidstone Club + racism

Unless provided some hardcore evidence, I think calling Maidstone the North East's Bob Jones University is incorrect and a complete distortion.

[curse10]

60. Try "maidstone club" and membership

http://www.ihamptons.com/ijournaldoc.ihtml?item=50

[LuminousX]

70. Yeah, One article... Now try Bob Jones and racism...

"Bob Jones University racism

You have one article that implies Maidstone has a racist policy and others say it is just as bad as Bob Jones University. I say, look at the record.

[YNGW]

56. I like white-only golf, too.

I tried playing with those orange and yellow balls (they say you can see them better), but I just felt silly and went back to white.

[chocolateeater]

61. POOP

:hurts:

[MGKrebs]

64. So let's review:

What we know:
-His parents were members
-He spoke there
-It is a private club with no Black members.
-No evidence that Dean himself is a member


What we don't know:
-What he spoke about. For all we know, he could have urged them to invite some minority members.

Is there a problem here?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

65. Exactly. HIS PARENTS are members, not him.

My father belongs to an evening art class that's just for cancer survivors. By the logic being presented here, it would follow that I am opposed to people who don't have cancer --- after all, the class only allows cancer survivors, so I must embrace their exclusionist policy by association.

I can understand people having differences in policy with Dean. I can understand people not liking him personally. But this kind of thing is so silly it's almost comical.

Try again.

[AP]

68. this is the world in which Dean grew up. His values are the values he.....

...learned in that world.

He's done a few things in his life to reject those values, however, very few of them were in the course of governing.

[Ripley]

75. Bullshit...if he learned the values of the Jew haters...

Why the fuck did he marry one?

You guys are really discrediting every candidate you back.

[curse10]

69. And here's another link

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12172003/gossip/43950.htm

it is from a gossip column, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Ripley]

72. One question.

Does Rev. Sharpton's church have white members? How about all of the organizations, including social ones, he belongs to? If whites are not in his church, can I make that giant assumption (not grounded in logic) that he doesn't like white people?

[KaraokeKarlton]

77. Attention Dean Supporters!

This thread is nothing but an attempt to get you angry so that you will post something that can be alerted on. Don't give the Dean haters an opportunity to alert on your posts. Rebuttals have already been posted and no one in their right mind would believe this nonsense. If you react to this you give those who start these threads what they want. Don't play this game.

[EarlG]

80. If you wish to discuss Howard Dean's involvement

with the Maidstone Club, you may do so. But starting this thread in a manner which is clearly designed to incite flames ("Dean likes whites-only golf and the confederate flag? Figures...") is not appropriate.