WE WENT TO WAR TO START THE RAPTURE?!? MUST READ - EXPLOSIVE!

[Bozos for Bush]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2500661

Folks, I've been busy for hours chasing down everything I can find about a bunch of neo-con freaks. It all started when my mom showed me a threatening letter she received from the American Federation of Senior Citizens (AFSC), warning her that she might lose her Social Security unless she mailed in this stupid card she has to sign and a donation. The AFSC is at the same address, and run by the same guy, as several other organizations. His name is Gary Jarmin.

Among Gary Jarmin's many ventures (Christian Voice, JAR-MON Consultants, US Cuba Foundation, American Christian Cause, Pacific Asia Foundation, National Parent's Day Council) is/was the American Coalition for Tradition Values. His partner was Tim Lahaye.

Who is Tim Lahaye? Get ready for some explosive stuff!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/5939999?rnd=1090028394515&has-player=true&version=6.0.10.505&

http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/Bush/bush9.html

http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/lahaye.html

http://www.cephasministry.com/church_and_state_roots.html

I can't believe I'm finding all this dirt! All because of a threatening letter to my mom! I have scanned the letter (4 pages plus other stuff) but I don't know how to post a scanned image. Need to email it to someone.

John

[grannylib]

1. Check out Sojourners on line for more such info. This is very scary indeed

Right-wing Christian fundies are behind much of this (Asscroft et al) and they are every bit as dangerous as the Taliban. Religious fundamentalism of ANY kind is a threat to freedom and democracy; I am far more frightened of the fundies in this country than I am of terrorists elsewhere.

[The Traveler]

2. That is not the only agenda

Some of the folk who pushed us into the war believe in oil and "benign hegemony" ... but others see it as an opportunity to hasten Armageddon and hence the second coming. Assholes of different varieties nonetheless emitting the same shit.

How typical of these evil mofos that they would threaten old people. Cretins. Cowards.

[jdj]

81. Glad to see some of you non-believers are waking up.

Gone are the days when people raised as atheist or in otherwise liberal backgrounds scowl at ex-fundies like me who have been saying that the world needs to watch the fuck out for these people. Been saying it for 15 years.

Cain't look down on them anymore ceptin for the fact that they got y'all by the short hairs.

Really, I used to get the feeling of condescension, as in "I was not raised in religion, therefore religion does not affect me." The HELL it doesn't. Welcome to the brave new world, everyone.

[Zhade]

82. Uh, many of us are ex-Christians in part due to people like these.

I've known about these people for years, and I'll wager there are some here who have "been saying it" for decades.

Honestly, this is not news to many of us.

[kaitykaity]

3. TahitiNut posts scanned images all the time.

And he's always very helpful. Maybe
send him a PM or something.

[Bundbuster]

4. Here's an Anti-CNP Yahoo Group

This Group's founder is dedicated to outing these bastards and their agenda. There's some really scary stuff here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anti_cnp/

Go into the FILES section for details on CNP's members, articles, etc.

[VoteJohn04_com]

5. Contact me

Depending on the letters content etc, I may be
willing to post this for you on one of my sites.

[Wapsie B]

6. Tim Lahaye is the author of the "Left Behind" books

that conservative fundies just eat up like candy. This wanting to precipitate the Rapture has been discussed here quite a bit in the past. Some fundamentalists want perpetual war in the ME. They want to act out the book of Revelations.

[GreenPoet64]

48. No Child "Left Behind" is in reference to his books. . .

Bush often speaks to the religious right using terms they understand are loaded with double meanings.

[Bozos for Bush]

7. Thanks and please keep this going - on to something huge here!

Here is the basic structure of what I am on to:

George Bush met with and received backing and influence from Tim Lahaye when he was deciding to run for President in 2000.

Tim Lahaye writes about the end of the world, how to bring it about, he was a Moonie, and he was partners with Gary Jarmin in the American Coalition for Traditional Values, which had a conference in the mid-80s about taking over the country, etc.

Gary Jarmin has several "charitable" organizations set up (what a crock) that are all at the same address, 208 North Patrick Street, Alexandria, VA 22314, including Christian Voice, JAR-MON Consultants, US Cuba Foundation, American Christian Cause, Pacific Asia Foundation, National Parent's Day Council, and the American Federation of Senior Citizens.

The American Federation of Senior Citizens is what mailed my mom a 4-page letter blasting liberals, scaring her about social security, and telling her to mail in this stupid card with her signature and a donation so that they can save social security for her with George Bushboy's plan to allow investment of funds.

I believe this is huge stuff.

John

[KoKo]

49. Do any DU'ers remember Sibol Edmunds references to "cover groups"

that work as charitable foundations...etc. The groups here sure sound like they could be money laundering or conduits for political activities.

from Bozo's post:

Gary Jarmin has several "charitable" organizations set up (what a crock) that are all at the same address, 208 North Patrick Street, Alexandria, VA 22314, including Christian Voice, JAR-MON Consultants, US Cuba Foundation, American Christian Cause, Pacific Asia Foundation, National Parent's Day Council, and the American Federation of Senior Citizens.

[AVID]

8. Can we verify any Tim Lahaye visits to WH?

I believe this shit. I''m usually pretty skeptical, but th RWers and fundies in my town seem to hypnotised by this end of world shit. NOthing else matters.

[Bluebear]

10. I keep saying it's like they're under some spell

I believe this too, they want to rapture us into their Armageddon and have deified GWB. And he has the delusions of grandeur to believe he is Chosen. (He consults his HIGHER Father about war, not his earthly father, he said in an interview.)

[Bozos for Bush]

9. Going back to 24-hour Kinkos to rescan the threatening letter

I have to make sure my mom's name is not on the letter anywhere, and I missed a spot on the first page, so I am going back to Kinkos to rescan and will be back later.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. Why are people buying into this "Rapture" idea is what I want to know?!

It is not traditional Christian belief. There's nothing in the Bible to support it. As far as I know, no one has been able to stretch the Book of Revelation to support the Rapture scenario. It's all based on a teenage girl's vision that happened less than 200 years ago. Of course, Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses are even newer phenomena but they had forceful men behind them, men who built up movements during their lives, and had successors to carry on. AFAIK, the idea of the Rapture was a little side alley of fundamentalist Protestant Christianity until 23 or 30 years ago.

What built it up? Ideas don't spread without some help.

Have the "Left Behind" books made it really popular, or is its popularity exaggerated by people like Jarmin and LaHaye, GOP bigwigs, etc., for their own purposes? Do people who read the books actually believe something like that will happen? (Not could happen but will happen?)

I'll never get to sleep after reading this! (Do not read DU when you should be asleep, Do not read DU when. . .) :cry:

[NVMojo]

12. As if Jesus would really advocate bombing the hell out of innocent people

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1093387

more about it there.

It's funny how easily people can be scared into believing this stuff.

[librechik]

87. you nailed it--these people worship a different God than Jesus

the Old Bible is far more important to them, apparently, than the New Testament. Fundamentalists ignore Christ's teachings to concentrate on sin and hellfire, which Jesus wanted to put an end to. They pretend Jesus still subscribed to all the teachings in the Old Bible!That old god's name was Jehova or Yahweh.

They are NOT CHRISTIANS

[punpirate]

14. I'm not sure that the so-called...

... "rapture" phenomenon is directly tied to Mormon theology. Its origins, at least as believed by evangelicals in this country, is the result of a preacher named Darby, who, in the 1840s, had some rather hare-brained notions about Revelations and how that chapter related to parts of the Old Testament.

Then, along comes a fellow named Scofield, who began to make marginal notes in his own Bible based upon some of Darby's teachings. Around 1910, he moved to the Dallas area, founded his own bible college, and as part of that, issued what is now known as the Scofield Bible--the standard Bible with his marginal notes included as supplementary text. M'self, I think that's why the literalists think it's gospel, so to speak, because the notes are printed in that edition.

It's thoroughly wacko and right down the fundies' alley.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. No, it's not tied to

Mormonism at all, as far as I know. I think their end times beliefs are quite different. I just gave Mormons & JWs as examples of religious beliefs that are more recent but very big.

Someone posted here earlier that Darby took his ideas from the vision of a young girl in Scotland in the 1830s, which preceded the Witnesses and Mormons both, unless I have my dates all wrong.

So Darby influenced Scofield, who went to Dallas, founded a Bible college, and issued a Bible with his own notes included. . . Hard to believe people would think commentary printed with a Bible is the word of God but you may be entirely right on this. I've owned several Bibles with commentaries, concordances, maps -- and what about those pages in the middle? The fancy gold-trimmed ones where you enter dates of births, marriages, and deaths within your family? Does that become the word of God by association? Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!

[evilqueen]

29. What's really ironic is, there's a bible passage that warns about

adding stuff to the Word of God. To do so is, apparently, a blasphemy of the highest kind.

[KoKo]

57. They get a sense of "Community" from these churches and feel they

are doing something to stop what they see as "wickedness" in the world. They think everything on TV that they don't like is part of a vast "Liberal Conspiracy."

Most of all, I think those churches prey on the "hollowness" of our culture today. So, they follow the Limbaughs, the RW Preachers and the snake oil salesmen who make them feel their resentment is justified.

:shrug:

David Neiwart (sp?) on the "Orcinus" website talks alot about the Fundie Christian Movement and hate groups on his website. He has a good article up now on the site and has written a book about it. It's important to fight back against these groups, and they do seem to be everywhere, now... into our whole Government...Congress & Senate. There
is an active group which hosts the "Prayer Breakfasts" in DC and many of our Senators & Congresspersons live while they are in DC in a compound which is serviced by these fanatical Christians. I don't have the link to the whole story...back in DU Archives...but the network is vast and reaches into our P-Resident...as we have seen...:-(

[Lydia Leftcoast]

75. I think you are right, KoKo

There is no longer any genuine folk culture, just commercially manufactured pop culture in various genres that is spoonfed to the American people and that changes from week to week to keep consumers insecure about keeping up and being in fashion. Most Americans are poorly educated in "high culture"--literature and the performing and visual arts--and in history and philosophy as well, so there's a great emptiness at the core.

In addition, the average outer suburb (which the media portray as the most desirable place to live) has no center, no neighborhood hangouts, no long-term residents, no sense of tradition. One suburb looks like another, with only the vegetation telling you what part of the country you're in. The residents often commute long distances, and since over-exposure to Top 40 Radio will drive a person--especially an adult person-- mad, they listen to rightwing talk radio. They belong to no community organizations, claiming that they're "tired' and "busy." Their lives consist of working, commuting, driving kids around, yardwork, and housework.

The residents are ripe for picking by any institution that will provide them with a sense of community. The fundamentalist churches provide a full-service instant community and social life.

A member of such a church who begins to doubt the party line is in a quandry: all their friends are at the church. If they leave the church, where will they go? What will they do? They have no culture to fall back on.

It's not a coincidence that fundamentalist churches are strongest in the suburbs.

[Robeson]

86. That was a very....

...good sociological breakdown of suburban culture. Good job. :thumbsup: In the South where I live, its as you described, but with a factor x's 10!

[AntiCoup2K4]

41. The Rapture isn't referenced in Revelation

It's actually in Paul's writings. The word "rapture" itself isn't used, but the description is of the "dead in Christ" rising from their graves, and then the Christians alive at that time rising up into the air to meet Jesus, fly back to Heaven for the duration of the 7 year Tribulation, then return with JC to setup His kingdom on Earth.

[TrogL]

84. Paul was barking mad

[Cats Against Frist]

46. Because they're fucking crazy n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

76. It's based on a cryptic passage in Matthew 24

39  And they knew not till the flood came and took them all away: so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.
  40  Then two shall be in the field. One shall be taken and one shall be left.
  41  Two women shall be grinding at the mill. One shall be taken and one shall be left.

More than anything, that sounds exactly like what happened in the atomic bombings at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. People lived or died depending on chance factors such as where they were sitting in relation to a window when the bomb struck.

[jdj]

80. I was raised Southern Baptist and all good fundies believe this.

You must be joking if you think they care what the bible REALLY says.

[Bozos for Bush]

13. Back from Kinkos - need to email someone who can post scanned images!

I just rescanned the 4-page threatening letter about social security and it needs to be posted online. If someone knows how to post JPEG scans, please email me at [e-mail] so I can email you the letter. It is explosive stuff, and ties directly to Tim Lahaye, and therefore George Bush.

We also need to get this out to the media, the Kerry campaign, etc.

I need help!

John

[Bozos for Bush]

15. NEED HELP! This letter ties directly to Tim Lahaye, and therefore Bush!

Need help getting this letter posted. Please email me or private post me if you can post scanned images.

Need to send it to anyone and everyone.

Gary Jarmin, his charitable organization is not really a charity, sending out threatening letters about social security to seniors to raise money, he was/is Tim Lahaye's partner, who ties directly to Bushboy.

[teach1st]

16. Private message me

[Bozos for Bush]

17. Done

Thanks Teach!

[Bozos for Bush]

19. Thank you Teach

4:30 AM, time for bed here - been up all night working this thing.

John

[RainDog]

20. you should check out TheocracyWatch

also this web site has loads of information about who is connected to whom among the American Talibornagains:

http://www.yuricareport.com/

[ithacan]

21. www.theocracywatch.org

Excellent site with lots of articles, documenting how the "religious right" took over the Republican Party:

http://www.TheocracyWatch.org/

[Tesibria]

22. HA! luv it !! "Talibornagains"

thanx for giving me a laughoutloud this cloudy Sunday morning!! :)

[popstalin]

23. Just did a search at FEC site

And I wonder if the last Tim Lahaye is the same one as all the others. The reason I bring up this point is that his job is listed as US Dept of Labor. Something to look into as well.

[starroute]

24. Gary Jarmin is also a Moon operative

Christian Voice goes back (under earlier names) to 1976. Jarmin, a right-wing lobbbyist and former Moon disciple, was one of its founders.

"Christian Voice is one Moon-connected group that has operated out of the Heritage building. A 'former' Moon operative, Gary Jarmin, attacked critics of Moon and gave an interview to a Moon-controlled newspaper after he joined the Christian Voice (CV) staff. CV's chair, Robert Grant, has been a leader of Moon's Unification network front groups such as the American Freedom Coalition, which fundraised for Oliver North."

http://watch.pair.com/heritage.html


Moon and Paul Weyrich's Heritage Foundation seem to be connected to most of the really nasty stuff that is going on currently. There have been several recent threads going on them -- I have to run and take breakfast out of the oven, so I can't track those down, but we clearly need to bring all this stuff together.


On edit: The muffins aren't quite brown yet, so I still have a minute. Those two Moon-related threads are:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=906139
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2497387

There has also been quite a bit of discussion of Moon's influence lately in the context of Carlton Sherwood and "Stolen Honor."

[starroute]

36. Scamming old ladies is part of Moon's SOP as well

http://www.gorenfeld.net/blog/2004/02/happy-money-trails-to-you.html

Scamming old ladies in Japan out of $622 million+. By naming Japan "the mother nation," Moon openly designated it the cash cow for his enterprises. This was reported in the New York Times: A legion of Japanese lawyers are seeking to recover millions of dollars in life savings, lost during the church's 1990s campaign to sell exorbitantly priced religious artifacts to naive old people unassociated with Moon's church. Twenty thousand victims, with claims totalling 74 billion yen (about 622 million U.S. dollars), are seeking reparations. One customer of the so-called Spiritual Sales, "Mrs. A," was talked into donating about $200,000 from her dead husband's life insurance policy, to purify the old man's lineage. Unification disciples told her:

"Your husband is suffering in Hell and is seeking your help. Your daughters will suffer misfortune too if you do not donate money with the feeling that you want to sacrifice everything you own and offer it to heaven."

[LizW]

37. Bingo. Jarmin learned at the knee of the master scammer

And he also has connections to Steuart McBirnie, who was a scammer of the elderly, too.

Also, wasn't it Jarmin who managed to get John Warner to reserve the room in the Senate Building for Moon's coronation?

[starroute]

59. Jarmin, Bo Hi Pak, and Bush Sr.

Bo Hi Pak is Moon's right-hand man and is often mentioned in the context of Moon's connections to the Korean CIA. Here are some rather scary remarks he made praising Gary Jarmin back in 1990, during the Bush I presidency:

His wife may not be here tonight, but I want to talk about Gary Jarmin. Many people may not know Gary as I know him. He truly loves our True Parents, and he is someone who can do what Father needs. He is a political strategist like I have never seen. He has a precise and most acute mind. He makes things happen. I would like to give you a couple of examples. Many of you may not know about them because these things happen behind the scenes.

On August 31, the Universal Ballet Academy will be inaugurated, another victory for Father. Without Gary Jarmin, this school would not be there. What do I mean by that? Oleg Vinogradov is an important Russian citizen, a great artist who had won the Lenin Cultural Award, the highest honor in the Soviet Union. He could not come to America to work without his government's permission, and to get that, he needed an invitation from the United States at the highest level -- he needed a letter from President George Bush. The Soviet Union was still an adversary in terms of diplomatic relations, and it was very difficult for the president of the United States to write a letter to an individual, even the artistic director of the Kirov Ballet. So I brought this matter to Gary Jarmin. To make a long story short, that request went to the State Department to the Security Advisor's desk, to get clearance. Finally, thanks to Gary's tenaciousness and doggedness, his strategy and influence, everything worked out. Gary is the one who made that happen. Now Father is coming to honor that opening, and I want you to know that it is Gary who did it.

You know the president of the United States does not just sit down and write a letter to anybody. It is not that easy. But the president wrote me a beautiful birthday letter. He recognized the work of the Washington Times, but there was a personal part too. Unless you have the right connection, that kind of thing cannot happen. Again, Gary pulled it off. I have asked him to reserve that strategy and power, so that someday he can pull off something very big for the sake of Father's great providence. For this reason, I would like to show my respect and love for Gary Jarmin.

On edit: Forgot the link
http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unification/Books/Tims2/Tims2-56.htm

[barbaraann]

25. Platform of Oregon Constitution Party

We, the members of the Constitution Party, gratefully acknowledge the blessing of the Lord God as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of this Nation. We solemnly declare that the foundation of our political position and moving principle of our political activity is our full submission and unshakable faith in our Savior and Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Divine Providence as we work to restore and preserve this Nation as a government of the People, by the People, and for the People.

The U.S. Constitution established a Republic under God, rather than a democracy.
Our Republic is a nation governed by a Constitution that is rooted in Biblical law, administered by representatives who are Constitutionally elected by the citizens.
In a Republic governed by Constitutional law rooted in Biblical law, all Life, Liberty and Property are protected because law rules.
...

http://www.constitutionpartyoregon.org/2002site/platform/platform.htm

[Octafish]

26. Chimpageddon

Bush's Armageddon Obsession
The Looking Glass War

by MICHAEL ORTIZ HILL
CounterPunch

I'd become accustomed to George W. Bush's use of the word evil until he told the nation this last spring, "The evil one is among us." Anyone with a passing understanding of the evangelical world of Bush' faith knows he was referring to the Antichrist. The implications of this are grave beyond telling and yet scarcely ever noted in the public discourse. On the eve of a misguided war the Commander in Chief of the most powerful military force in human history has located American foreign policy within a Biblical narrative that leads inexorably towards the plains of Megiddo, roughly fifty five miles northwest of Jerusalem: the battle of Armageddon. Two essential questions, as impertinent as they are imperative, need to be asked: Mr. President, as a born-again Christian is it not true that you regard this as the end times prophesied in the Bible? In what way does your religious understanding of apocalypse inform American policy in the Mideast?

There are many aspects to the fundamentalist understanding of the end of days not the least being the conversion of the Jews to the true Messiah before the final battle. In Bush' political autobiography (A Charge to Keep) he places himself squarely in the mainstream of evangelical thought. Recounting his pilgrimage to the Holy Land Bush writes of entering into the waters of Galilee in the apparent baptism of "a Jewish friend. " It was then that the hymn came to his mind:

Now the time is approaching By prophets long foretold When all shall dwell together One Shepherd and one fold Now Jew and Gentile meeting From many a distant shore Around an altar kneeling One common Lord adore

I don't know if the president has read Hal Lindsey, but much of what he says shows a similar perspective. Having sold fifteen million copies Lindseys' book The Late Great Planet Earth remains the most influential text shaping fundamentalist thought on apocalyptic matters. Written within the geopolitical fantasies of the Cold War Lindsey writes, " As Armageddon begins with the invasion of Israel by the Arabs and the Russian confederacy, and their consequent swift destruction, the greatest period of Jewish conversion to their true Messiah will begin. " I'd rather not believe that Bush is moving according to Lindseys' game plan but the simple fact is that we don't know. The administration systematic alienation of our Arab allies (soon leaving Israel as our only viable ally in the Mideast) raises disturbing questions.

Lindseys' book influenced not only American fundamentalist culture but had a pervasive effect on fundamentalist Islams' apocalyptic worldview. According to David Cook, the American expert on Islamic apocalyptic literature, until the late eighties this element of Muslim culture had been fairly static for centuries. " The contemporary Muslim," says Cook, " sees the present world turned upside down by Christian millennialism.... In defense, Muslims make heavy use of the Bible, or one might say the Bible as seen through the eyes of Hal Lindsey. There are Muslim readings of the book of Daniel, Ezekial and Revelation. The only difference is the 'good guys' are Muslims, not Christians." This strange cross-fertilization between cultures has placed us in the situation in which the current administration and Radical Islam share a common worldview in which peace descends after Evil is defeated in an apocalyptic battle. Both parties sing the same song: God will lead our warriors to victory against the forces of darkness.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/hill1019.html

[Bozos for Bush]

27. Link to scary Social Security letter posted

http://www.tuff-teach.com/ss/

Thanks to Teach1st for posting it.

This is what the Moonies are doing to seniors.

John

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. Outfrickin'rageous

Is the Kerry Campaign aware of this? The DNC?

[Bozos for Bush]

34. gonna call them now (nt)

[American liberal]

67. Absolutely dispicable!!!

I am hopping mad!

My elderly parents are now in a nursing home, so they are protected from this sort of chicanery. But it wasn't like that in the recent past! How dare these people prey on vulnerable older people like that! What can I do to protest this practice? Can this group be reported to the FTC or some other govt. oversight group?

Absolutely despicable!

[pfitz59]

68. String 'em up!

Fleecing old people oughta be a crime! Is it?.....

[starroute]

28. Do you have this article on your list?

It's the same scam, but run directly through Christian Voice.

http://www.holysmoke.org/hs02/money-cc.htm

Donations Solicited Illegally

When a Wood County woman showed signs of dementia last year, her son and daughter-in-law stepped in to manage her affairs.

To their surprise, and horror, they found the 85-year-old woman had sent $4,000 of her $5,000 annual Social Security income to conservative Christian groups that solicited her by mail.

"Our children are in desperate trouble," read a recent appeal from a group called Christian Voice. "Because the Militant Homosexual Lobby has unveiled a dangerous new scheme to shove their evil agenda through Congress."

[Bozos for Bush]

32. Damn these bastards

They are everywhere, like cockroaches.

[popstalin]

30. Has this been passed on to

The DNC or Kerry campaign (the letter that is)?

[Bozos for Bush]

31. Not yet

getting ready to email it to them.

[Bozos for Bush]

35. Just talked to Kerry HQ in Florida, will be faxing the letter tomorrow.

She seemed quite interested. I hope this helps.

http://www.tuff-teach.com/ss/

John

[mhr]

38. Kick - Thanks For Exposing This Information

eom

[LizW]

39. Check out Gary Jarmin's LTTE in the Wash Times

from back in August.

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040824-085849-7524r.htm

Scroll down to the 5th letter.

Such self-righteousness from a guy who makes his living scamming old people on Social Security.

[NMDemDist2]

40. upload scanned images to photo bucket then post n/t

[Bozos for Bush]

42. I don't know how, sorry

Can I email them to you?

John

[Bozos for Bush]

43. Finished emailing the letter to everyone on Skinner's list

With a short, concise explanation thrown in.

Sure hope this gets kicked :)

John

[seabeyond]

44. maher said on last show 1% then 17% believe end of world

what made the number jump up. jackson and woman on show said fear.........the answer, religious right and rapture. yes they believe. i see it all over my town. i have heard women in my school say what is happening now doesnt matter it is the beyond they are focused on. i am seeing rapture bumper stickers. they embrace it, feel joy with it, wanting it. told my sons third grade teacher last spring, talking passion and bush and what is happening in religioun, walking off path of god, she held up bible and said it says it in here, that it isnt going to get better. i told her, that the right where creating armaggedon. because they wanted it to happen. that this didnt have to be.

they believe, they want, they embrace

[Bozos for Bush]

45. Yea, I agree with another poster that Bush is America's Jim Jones

And he's leading all of us to the promised land - beyond pathetic.

Until yesterday, I always thought Iraq was about oil.

[KoKo]

47. Please file complaint with US Postal Service also. Here's link and a snip.

Even though Bush is Pres...we have to hope that filing a complaint will still get this some attention in addition to all the other places you are sending this...This sounds like "Mail Fraud" to me and all of us who have elderly relatives need to stop this..

Here's the link:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
The form below allows you to send a complaint to the U.S. Postal Inspection Service if you suspect you are a victim of mail fraud.

Although the Inspection Service cannot resolve routine business disputes between companies and their customers, it can act against a company or individual if there is a pattern of activity suggesting a potential scheme to defraud. Completion of this form is voluntary, but the more information that you enter, the better the Inspection Service may be able to help.

Please note we may share the information you provide with other agencies when a possible violation concerns their jurisdiction. Read the Contact Us page for more information.

If this is an urgent matter, immediately contact your nearest law enforcement agency. You may also go to the Federal Trade Commission site for more information.

If you would rather file a complaint via U.S. Mail, click here and print it.

https://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFraudComplaint.htm

[Bozos for Bush]

50. Thanks Koko01, doing it now (nt)

[KoKo]

55. Also contact your local Post Office that serves your mother and ask the

person in charge (Postmaster) if any seniors in your area have been targeted by this mailing and have their been other complaints filed on this.

Also send a copy of the letter to your Senator and Congressperson and most important to your "State Attorney General" which you should be able to get from your State Government Website. The State Attorney General could probably work faster than the Postal Service... This affects both Repug and Dem citizens...so someone hopefull will listen.

[shmendrick]

51. Neocon?

I thought that the neocons were mostly (but not entirely) Jewish republicans like Kristol, Podhorortz, Pearle, Wolfowtiz, feith, libby (but also Rumsfeld and Cheney).

Why are you referring to the fundies are neocons?

The fundies are fundies, or paleocons, (a/k/a wackos), but the neocons are mostly (secular) Jews.

[Wind Dancer]

52. There is a huge movement in NC

with several churches who are using faith-based religious groups to promote their agenda which includes bringing on the rapture. I found this out by accident from my hairdresser who is into this BS - they are brainwashed and a dangerous bunch.

It's hard to describe how powerful this movement has become. These people have cult mentality - they have been trained by these fanatical preachers and have an answer for anybody that tries to point out facts or question their deranged beliefs.

It's part of the One World Order group who believe we must take over the middle east in the name of God. They have guest ministers who come in their churches claiming visions of God that * is the chosen one who must "liberate" these countries and force Christianity on them so they can enter heaven.

They have soldiers coming in as guests telling them how wonderful it is going in Iraq and how many have found God during battle. Fayetteville is in NC so that is used as a perfect backdrop.

I am almost certain this PNACer spoke at her church recently:

Profile of John Bolton (from Foreign Policy in Focus)
John R. Bolton, the undersecretary of state for arms control and international security affairs, represents the right wing of the foreign policy establishment. How right? In January 2001, Jesse Helms endorsed Bolton: "John Bolton is the kind of man with whom I would want to stand at Armageddon, if it should be my lot to be on hand for what is forecast to be the final battle between good and evil in this world."

Bolton, a senior vice president for pubic policy research with the American Enterprise Institute, was spotted in the thick of the battle for the White House during the contested presidential election. Press photographers snapped him with other Bush stalwarts counting hanging chads in Palm Beach.

Scary huh???????????

I was so upset after my encounter with these people - it turned ugly when they started personally attacking me because I didn't believe it was the teaching of Christ to kill people, ignore the poor and hungry, etc. They were furious that I believed everyone had a choice in their religions/beliefs or chose not be believe at all.

I want to meet with her alone and attempt to explain the danger of this religion. These people HATE gays, women's rights and those who do not believe the world is ending soon.

On the other hand, how can I ignore this? At least if I have documented facts to physically hand her in hopes of planting a seed - "What if you are wrong?"

http://www.ncfpc.org/index.html

"Welcome to the North Carolina Family Policy Council

We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization serving to provide research and education on public policy issues that affect the family."

They're a right-wing facade.


They're an anti-gay (and anti-choice) hate group.

http://www.common-sense.org/?fnoc=/consider_this/consid...

This has been tearing me apart all week because I have never seen such a dangerous group of people before.

[Bozos for Bush]

54. Wow, layers upon layers of this crap

I must apologize - although I have been staunchly anti-Bush since 1991, I had no idea these fascist religious freaks had all this going on.

John

[Wind Dancer]

56. I didn't either, unfortunately.

Like you, I find out more everyday and have been researching Rev. Moon and all of his connections to these front faith-based groups. I think it is an orchestrated movement by this administration to use religion as a recruiting tool - it is polarizing the country more and more -

[Bozos for Bush]

78. I think they call it "termite strategy"

They just keep chipping away wherever they can. I'm in shock at just how many fake charitable organizations are under the Moonies umbrella - every time I search on something new, I find other new things...overwhelming :(

[sharman]

90. At the risk of seeming scurrilous

and breaking a father's heart

Perhaps just two little words might poke a hole in that impenetrable lunatic armor:

mary cheney
mary cheney
mary cheney

I mean, wouldn't you love to see the reaction?

[KoKo]

53. Send to Congressman Henry Waxman, too. Here's the link..

http://www.henrywaxman.house.gov/bio.htm

"Contact Us" link is on the left.

[Roland99]

58. Google for Christian Reconstructionism or Christian Reconstructionists

and compare it to the PNAC neocons' vision.


Bush and Co. are fucking SCARY-ASS people!!




GET THE VOTE OUT!

[neomonkey]

60. I'm new to this, I've been busy with work

I haven't even read through this thread, but that name, Tim Lahaye, rings some serious bells.

[nolabels]

61. Man, this needs a kick just for .........................

the posters handle "Bozos for Bush"..........:D

[Bozos for Bush]

88. LOL thanks :) (nt)

[starroute]

62. An important DU thread from last spring on Moon and LaHaye

I actually found this through Google. It consists mostly of one very long post by blm that got almost no comment at the time. It lays out a lot of the details of the Moon-LaHaye connection and their mutual political ambitions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1423175


On edit: Also worth a look is the devastating page-by-page analysis of the Left Behind books (or at least of the first 66 pages of the first one) at Slacktivist's blog:
http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind/index.html

[harpo]

63. The Bible College That Leads to the White House

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0421-09.htm

Published on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 by the Independent/UK
The Bible College That Leads to the White House
The campus is immaculate, everyone is clean-cut and cheerful. But just what are they teaching at Patrick Henry College? And why do so many students end up working for George Bush?

by Andrew Buncombe

[gauguin57]

64. "60 Minutes" had a story on the Rapture fans and Israel policy in 2002!!!

Here they are, "Zion's Christian Soldiers."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/60minutes/main524268.shtml

"There is the alliance between America and Israel in the war on Islamic terror. But it goes deeper. For Christians who interpret the bible in a literal fashion, Israel has a crucial role to play in bringing on the Second Coming of Christ.

Last fall, supporters of the Christian Coalition gathered on the Mall in Washington to express their faith and to lobby the administration. The rally was organized by the Christian Coalition, which wants to make sure that the Bush Administration sees the struggle in the Middle East between Jews and Muslims their way - the Christian way. ..."

They don't give a flying fig about the Jews ... they're not going to heaven, in their eyes, because they aren't born-again Christians. But they're willing to USE Israel -- and its border disputes -- to start the ENDTIMES for their own benefit.

Bunch of motherjumpers!

[harpo]

65. CBS did a story on this guy...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/05/60minutes/main598218.shtml

"With the White House, Tom DeLay...in the House of Representatives...these are parts of the righteous army that has finally come into its own." Rev. Peter Gomes

[harpo]

66. Fineman: MSNBC: Ties That Bind: Bush and LaHaye have a history, and share

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4988491/site/newsweek/

"By the late 1980s, Bush and Karl Rove had decided that the key to establishing "Junior's" political base in Texas was to reach out to evangelical Christians. Conveniently enough, Bush's job in his father's 1988 campaign was to focus on those voters nationally. A key leader in that constituency was Falwell, who was for Vice President Bush; LaHaye went with Jack Kemp, but was eased out of that camp for some anti-Roman Catholic statements he'd made. The Bush campaign took LaHaye in, inviting him to an event at the veep's home. "I'm pretty sure I introduced Tim to George W," Falwell says."

[pfitz59]

69. These nuts infest the military.....

I know, I was in the Navy. They start each day with a morning prayer that they not be "Left Behind"! The all volunteer military is roughly divided into two camps, poor folks who need a secure job, and right-wing fundie nut-jobs out to secure the world for Christ! Just think about who is being appointed to the military academies each year, appointed by right-wing Congress-critters, the Pres and VP! Franklin Graham's son went to West Point! The "Left Behind" series was top selling in military exchanges! Free-thinkers and progressives are fighting the hydra!

[Lizzie Borden]

70. everyone should read this.

:kick:

[Bozos for Bush]

71. Link to this DU thread to see Scary Social Security letter

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x906139

Scroll down towards the bottom - looks like most activity on this subject has moved to there and another thread.

Thanks to Salvorhardin, Teach1st, amen, Koko, and everyone else for their help,

John

[Ima]

72. TV stations

Many TV stations will air scams that affect seniors.

[Bluebear]

73. I've posted it on GD in actual form

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2503732

[Bozos for Bush]

74. Thanks Turkeys, I'll summarize there and kick it (nt)

[Bozos for Bush]

77. kick (nt)

[pauliedangerously]

79. Outrageous

:kick:

[TrogL]

83. We've known that for years

Click my links

[Swamp Rat]

85. X-tians...

... wouldn't recognize Jesus if he bit them on the ass. If I were him, I'd be royally pissed. I wish he'd really come to be ("again" as some folks might say) and reckon with these X-tians Clint Eastwood style... it'd be cool. :D

[illuminaughty]

93. Swamp I love that flag

I made a T-shirt with an upside down flag. The blue extended down to be the shape of Texas. The stripes were eaten away and had a red dollar sign through them with blood dripping down.

Back said: Has WMDs; Has Nukes and Has Used Them; Needs a Regime Change; There's No Place Like Home (I'm from Kansas)

I'm getting ready to have it out with my brother who is from Oberlin, LA. Know where that is? I know you're from LA from hurricane posts. My brother is all about this Armageddon bullshit. They have had him by the balls for years. But this shit scares me. It's got to go.

[Scoopie]

89. Uh... no offense

but Clark supporters were aware of this back in late December/early January.
Where have you guys been?
In fact, I even had a conversation about this with him in December. I've read all the books and could see the political ramifications.

"Now, there's one party in America that's made the United Nations the enemy. And I don't know how many of you have ever read that series of books that's published by the Christian right that's called the "Left Behind" series? Probably nobody's read it up here. But don't feel bad, I'm not recommending it to you. I'm just telling you that according to the book cover that I saw in the airport, 55 million copies have been printed. And in it, the Antichrist is the United Nations. And so there's this huge, ill-informed body of sentiment out there that's just grinding away against the United Nations." (Jan. 7, Fuller Elementary School, Keene.)

Of course, he was derided for this statement - but it was and is very much true.

Edited to include quote.

[Nordic]

91. wouldn't it be nice if the FUCKING Media would do its FUCKING job?

instead of all of us trying to do it for them, for us?

Goddamn it just pisses me off to no end.

It's like we're living in a country where suddenly all the doctors went to work for the drug companies and you can't get an honest diagnosis anymore, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it.

"Freedom of speech" my ass.

Everyone in the media should be sued for MALPRACTICE.

EVERYBODY in America should ALREADY know about ALL of this.

And nobody does except the whackjobs (and there are millions of them) who are part of this suicide mission.

Sorry, just had to rant

[illuminaughty]

94. WTF?

I really followed Clark and I never heard this. Just posted moments ago about my brother who believes this insane shit.

He pleaded with me (I was seriously ill at the time) to read "Left Behind". My mom read it who is a devout Christian and thought it was simply stupid. But I had no idea that it impied the Anti-Christ is the United Nations. This are scary times people. I feel like one of those parents who is trying to take their child from the grips of a cult.

[Bozos for Bush]

92. Please link to new, updated thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1108892#

Thanks ;)

John