exactly how long WAS Laura Bush employed in either job

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

as a teacher or librarian...anyone know? If it was short term then I think Theresa Kerry was factually accurate. Did Laura Bush EVER have to support herself?

[naufragus]

1. dealing pot is a real job

[grasswire]

2. Nine years...

...according to CNN.

[seabeyond]

4. after married, or after graduating

not that i dont trust cnn reporting...........bah ha h aa

[diamond14]

21. according to Betty Bowers, laura bush* only taught for 300 DAYS

plus or minus a few weeks....

[RoyGBiv]

24. Yeah ...

That was the kind of thing I was thinking about when I posted earlier.

What her official bios claim and the practical reality of what she did are two different things. A number of her bios are quite vague on the point, mentioning only that she taught in two different school systems and served as a librarian during a span of years. What she actually did, specifically, is not mentioned in those bios.

[mr_hat]

3. Forever. George wasn't born, and she became a tighly wound spinster.

[RoyGBiv]

5. There's a "three" in there ...

The thing I found interesting was her moving from job to job in so short a time. I researched this months ago, and the number three keeps popping into my head, but there was a lag between one job and another, and she never really established herself anywhere.

The point Theresa was making, which is valid, is that Laura has never truly been in the position of supporting herself entirely, nor of having to fight just to keep a job to survive. And, as soon as she became romantically involved (scary image there) she no longer worked at all. Average Americans do not have those options.

Someone in another thread said that the insult in this was based on the fact that many women consider raising children a real job. This much is true, but is not applicable to Laura Bush for many reasons. Average American women must both raise children and find some way to support themselves financially. Laura doesn't understand that either.

OnEdit: The "three" I was thinking of comes from her three jobs. She worked briefly as a teacher in two different school systems and again briefly as a librarian. She spent more time as a student that she did as an employee using the skills and knowledge she'd acquired while in school.

She's since been a part of several organizations that claim to support teachers.

[blondeatlast]

7. Internships are required for both teaching and librarianship.

We need to keep that in mind as well; the degrees require internships for both, and I believe it's pretty universal.

[RoyGBiv]

8. Depends ...

This was the 70's, in Texas.

Her librarian job was a result of her master's degree, and a person can get that without any additional "internship."

The teacher education programs in the 70's weren't quite as sophisticated at the time either. I'm not certain about Texas, but at that time in OK, all that was required to receive a teaching certificate for a college graduate was a one-semester "student teaching" course in which the prospective teacher "observed" most of the semester and taught a week or two.

[blondeatlast]

17. So the question is, does she have an MLS degree?

Nowadays you MUST have a specialized degree in most locales to be a librarian, any Master's just doesn't work.

[RoyGBiv]

23. Yes ...

She has a MLS.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. There would have been coursework required also

I graduated from a teacher ed program in the 70s and the program I went through (in KS) isn't much different from what is required today.

And I wouldn't count student teaching, internships or practicums as official 'experience'. That tally does not start until a teacher has a college degree.

[RoyGBiv]

29. It's a lot different here ...

There were teacher education programs, and then there were alternate paths to a teaching certificate. There are still alternate paths, but even most of them require either some experience with actual teaching or going through a modified version of the teacher ed program.

The curriculum has improved dramatically in OK in the last 10 years. I was in the program in the early 90's and left it, in part, because I thought it was absurd. (I was also a stupid kid who thought he knew everything, but that's not the only reason I felt that way.) When I finally went back to college I had classes with several people in the teacher certification program, and their courses seemed much more relevant than the ones I had been taking previously. This can be summarized as less focus on abstract theory and more on practical application of theory and acquisition of knowledge of the subjects to be taught. In 1990, I could have taken two math classes (college algebra and one other), and if I passed the teacher ed program, which struck me as a modified psychology program, I would have been certified to teach math anywhere in OK. Now, you must pass a test for each subject, and it's nearly impossible to do so unless you have a lot of prior knowledge or at least minor in the subject and acquire that knowledge.

As an aside, the "interesting" thing about this is that OK schools are actually producing well-qualified teachers now ... and they promptly leave the state when they graduate because you can work for 7-11 in OK and make more than you can as a teacher.

[LiberalFighter]

10. Maybe now but was it required back then and in Texas?

[blondeatlast]

15. I expect; teaching has always required a practicum,

and librarianship has for many years now.

[RoyGBiv]

22. Not always ...

I know I'm splitting a hair here, but the standards today are in no way the same as they were 20 or 30 years ago. Go back beyond that, and the standards get even less strident. There was a time when all that was required to be a teacher was the ability to read,basic math skills, and the willingness to do it.

Again, I don't know how it is elsewhere. I do know OK and Texas were similar on many things ... still are in some, less favorable ways. The "student teaching" prospective teachers did prior to the mid-90's was a complete joke, and even the teaching students knew it. Many complained about it not preparing them for the reality of an actual teaching position. My senior year, '87, we had a student teacher in an advanced Calc class. He actually taught for one week. He spent another "assisting," and the rest of the time he simply observed and filled out papers about what he was observing.

I had several teachers who had never been through student teaching while they were in school. They simply got degrees in a specific field and took a test to become certified. (You can still do this in some places under certain conditions.) One, a physics and general science teacher, only had four classes of science in college, but she had a PhD in anthropology and so was given the job without going through any kind of teacher education. It showed too.

For a few years, our librarian had a degree in psychology, of all things, and had not gone through a student teaching program.

It's not that way now, but in Ms. Bush's time, it didn't take nearly as much to become a teacher in name. Good teachers of course went through a lot of training, and good schools only hired those who had if they could find the candidates, but a good deal of it was optional. My grandmother, who got her teaching degree in the 30's from a "normal" school, went back to college to take more classes because she felt her education had been far less than it needed to be to do her job appropriately.

[Doohickie]

12. I don't know much about Mrs. Kerry's history...

Has SHE ever had to support herself?

I honestly don't know.

[kskiska]

19. She worked as a U.N. interpreter

Also, from her bio:

After studying at the University of the Witwatersrand in South Africa and the University of Geneva, she moved to the United States and got a job working for the Trusteeship Council of the United Nations.

(snip)

Turning down offers to seek election to her husband's Senate seat to take care of her sons, family and professional responsibilities, she became chairman of The Howard Heinz Endowment and the Heinz Family Philanthropies. Under her leadership, the Heinz foundations are widely known for developing innovative strategies to protect the environment, improve education and the lives of young children, reduce the cost of prescription drugs, promote the arts and help women achieve financial economic security. She established the Women's Institute for a Secure Retirement in 1996 to educate women about pensions, savings, and retirement security.

I would assume a lot of this could be considered "work."

[senseandsensibility]

13. She doesn't support teachers!

There was nary a word from Miss Laura when Rod Paige, her husband's employee, called teachers terrorists.

[Barney Rocks]

6. four years as a

teacher (little kids). Then she moved and was a school librarian for five more years. Total of 9 years working. Then--she quit all that to take care of George--which is probably a full time job.

[diamond14]

16. in Betty Bower's interview of laura bush*...taught only 300 DAYS, plus

or minus a couple weeks....

[Barney Rocks]

27. I have no idea

about this interview you are referring to--but I am hearing the other numbers all over the media. They say that she worked for the school district for 9 years.

:shrug:

[cornermouse]

9. Rich women oversee the household staff.

I suppose you could call that a job.... Sort of.

[diamond14]

11. the answer in a Betty Bowers interview with laura bush* (link)

-snips-

Betty:
I think we had better, dear. Let's see, you selflessly allocated almost two percent of your whole life to teaching. And now, it seems that you tirelessly devote almost eighty percent of your time to talking about it.

pickles:
Well, I expect no more than polite adulation for dedicating 35-hour week after 35-hour week for an interminable year -- showing interest in other people's children when I've long given up feigning that tiring, fussy preoccupation with my own. I mean, goodness gracious me, we're talking about a career that spanned over 300 days -- give or take a week, Betty.

Betty:
Verily, Laura, you still seemed quite exhausted from the whole ordeal. Why did you do it, dear?

pickles
Well, Betty, I'm a teacher. I teach. Because that's what teachers do. They teach stuff. And, you know, Betty, I love teaching stuff so much. I've discovered -- and I know a lot of people in education call this "Pickles' kooky new theory" -- but I don't care because I really almost believe that reading stuff can help children learn things and stuff. And, frankly, that's what teaching stuff is all about -- learning stuff.

Betty:
Other than its brevity, what did you like best about a teaching career that merits hourly allusions twenty years hence, dear?

http://bettybowers.com/laurabush3.html

[City Lights]

14. Let's not forget too, bushes don't become adults until they turn 40,

so technically, any job pickles held before then doesn't count. :evilgrin:

[troubleinwinter]

18. You'd think she'd have managed to teach the chimp to read by now.

[seabeyond]

20. for years i have looked at this picture of bush

and had a feeling of recognizing. it is just with this picture of bundy. it is the eyes. wow

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. And in addition, if she really cared about her teaching profession

and education in general , why wouldn't she urge her husband to fund his NCLB pet project? Just asking?

[Homerr]

28. Maybe she did, and that's the problem.