Need help combatting some right-wingers about the Iraq explosives looting!

[phattyt]

On a few message boards I got into an argument with a right-winger who is pulling a lot of moderates over to his side by using the Drudge Report to combat the Iraqi Explosives Cache looting (that they were stolen before we got there). I quoted the Pentagon insider who said that the inspectors seals were intact after we invaded in 2003 and he responded with this:

I am right, this story is developing. You probably were all excited about dan rather's false story too.

http://www.drudgereport.com/nbcw.htm

How can I combat this horsecrap so that the moderates on the site actually get the truth about the incompetence of thsi administration?! Thanks for the help!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Send them here:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com

Then stop trying to convince them of anything, including the correct time. They ain't worth it.

[Hosnon]

4. I disagree

Anyone we can drag over to Kerry is important. Good luck!

[Tesibria]

16. THANK YOU THANK YOU

.... so much for the fantastic link (or the link to the fantastic article) ...
I've been stewing much about this - mostly quietly/trying not to panic ... this sets my mind at ease.

[Hello_Kitty]

17. This is bad for * any way you look at it. n/m

[Nite Owl]

2. This was up here a little while ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1171026

[qanda]

3. Tell them Drudge isn't a real journalist

He just plays one on the internet.

[DenverDem]

5. You guys are so transparent.

Stop it.

[MidwestTransplant]

6. Here's what NBC News DID say

Olberman recounted what NBC News said. They didn't say anthing about the weapons being gone. The troops arrived at the weapons site shortly after the invasion but they didn't look for weapons there. That's what NBC said.

[movonne]

7. Try this

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/extra/archives/001125.html

[phattyt]

8. Thanks guys...

I just did a post that used a combination of all of these sources and arguments. It is very likely that he will still try to call it crap but I will let you know how it turns out!

[My Pet Goat]

11. Also...

Drudge date of April 10 for when troops first moved in is flatly contradicted by this AP report, which indicates U.S. troops first move in on April 3, one week earlier: http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030405-chem-readiness01.htm

Further, the above AP report indicates from first hand reports that significant amounts of powder explosives were probably found.

Edited: "high power" --> "powder"

[phattyt]

9. This was the right-wing guy's reply...

sure this coming from a guy who continually posts from the democratic underground... Your proof is a bunch of left wing sites no one has ever even heard of , except the most partisan liberals from the board. Only you would use a site.. I hate Drudge to prove drudge is wrong.


Expect another rathergate and i am going to laugh at you long and hard when this starts showing up mainstream.

He can't combat it because it's true! He has to try and resort to smear tactics! Classic right-wing rhetoric

[LynnTheDem]

12. And drudge already backtracks

Oops, drudge was WRONG. AGAIN. That's why one would htink freepers would have learned by now NOT to believe anything gossipy drudge says.

You can fool Democrats some of the time, and rightwingnuts ALL OF THE TIME.

[seraph]

13. Oh, you;re dealing with one of those.

Doesn't want to hear it because it isn't coming from a "approved" source.

And I spose you heard "The Liberal New York Times".


Dude, really. Don't waste your time with idiots like that. They are beyond hope.

Cognitive Dissonance


There is no cure.

[NV1962]

14. Ooooooh - I love that pic!

Snatched!

:P

I have the byline ready, too: "Mr. President, I can't tell you what to do - you're the President..."

[seraph]

15. Real "Deer in the Headlights"

You're Welcome!!

[Garbo 2004]

18. Didn't Drudge recently report that Murdoch's son was dead?

And then "disappeared" it from his site real quick because he wasn't dead? This makes Drudge an always trustworthy source of info?

BTW, isn't NBC also one of those alleged unreliable "librul" media outlets? Why would a freeper believe NBC?

But NBC News online does link to an AP story where a Pentagon source acknowledging that the explosives were there and intact when they checked and disappeared after they were left unguarded.

[My Pet Goat]

19. Well, don't give up on your real audience....

the moderates in the group (if they really are moderates).

Just cite the AP articles:

The AP article where the Pentagon Official contradicts Drudge: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/

The AP article where U.S. forces were there a week earlier and report probably finding explosives:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030405-chem-readiness01.htm

As Marshall states, even when assuming Drudge is correct makes it worse because because Drudge's story would indicate: 1) U.S. forces were looking for the high-powered explosives from almost day one of the occupation, 2) they discovered that they were missing, 3) someone covered it up all this time but then 4) the WH claimed yesterday that the Pentagon "learned" about it 10 days ago.

[NV1962]

10. send the idiots some well-deserved and overdue bile back

I've had it with the sanctimonious monsters, that's why I wrote this.

This elections isn't about a choice between a Democrat and a Republican - it's between an American and an enemy of The People.

Whoever at this point still defends Bush is treasonous scum, full period.

[geek tragedy]

20. Drudge is essentially right.

You can go to the MSNBC website and see the report. It says exactly what he says it says.

<snip>
April 10, 2003, only three weeks into the war, NBC News was embedded with troops from the Army’s 101st Airborne as they temporarily take over the Al Qakaa weapons installation south of Baghdad. But these troops never found the nearly 380 tons of some of the most powerful conventional explosives, called HMX and RDX, which is now missing. The U.S. troops did find large stockpiles of more conventional weapons, but no HMX or RDX, so powerful less than a pound brought down Pan Am 103 in 1988, and can be used to trigger a nuclear weapon.
<snip>

That is what the NBC report says.

There is still a lot of bullshit being spewed by the Bush administration--mainly in connection with its coverup--but we need to arm ourselves with the facts.

[NV1962]

21. What is a Drugde?

And why is what this Durdge states important?

It's not that there is still a lot of bullshit being spewed by the Bush administration - it's that too few call them on it, while too many get distracted with names like Mutt Drduge, Annan Coluter, Bill Orally and Riss Lombagh.

Attack, attack, attack: letting 380 tons of highly explosive material slip through your fingers (now there's a challenging image) because you're too busy chasing phantom weapons that stubbornly refuse to manifest themselves, as part of some ideologically driven conquest for liberty without plan or purpose - I think that's fact enough.

Mitt Rugdud and THC and whatnot other silly letters are irrelevant.

Note in hindsight: I acknowledge that this appears to be critical of your cautioning against repeating unsubstantiated cr*p, geek tragedy - but it's not. It's just that carrying too much baggage makes one liable to border guards spending their boredom on the traveller... Travel light (not too many derailing data) and slam the hardest, toughest nails straight into the beast. Repetition works, repetition of condensed facts works best. That's what I meant to say, as a comment prompted by your post.

[Garbo 2004]

22. April 4, 2003 AP report: US troops already inspected al Qa Qaa.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83252,00.html

That means the NBC crew that arrived on April 10 were not with the first US troops to reach the site. Troops had already inspected the site at least a week before NBC arrived.

Again, a Pentagon source in the current AP report confirmed that the explosives cache was intact when troops first arrived and inspected the site. But they left the site unguarded.

(edited to reflect April 4 date for the AP story and linked to it on Fox's site.)