Has The Bush Administration Radicalized You ?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I consider myself a center-left Democrat; to the right of some DUers but to the left of most of the people I meeet conducting my day to day business in Central Florida.

I believe in free markets but I also believe in a strong safety net. I believe government should do everything it can to ensure we all start at the same place but where we go from there is a function of our intiative and God-given abilities...I am not in favor of punishing the rich with confiscatory taxes but I do favor a progressive tax system that adequately funds the government.

On social issues I subscribe to John Stuart Mills' dictum that "over his body and mind the individual is sovereign..." I am personally opposed to abortion, would assume financial responsibility for a life I helped to create but I am not going to use the awesome power of the state to make a woman see it my way.... As for gay marriage I think it is a legal recognition by the state of two people who love each other and want to make that commitment permanent... I don't care about the gender of the parties to that commitment...

I support a strong military... Yeah, I want to be the toughest kid on the block not so I can bully other people but because I will never have to rely on anybody else to defend me...I supported the Korean War, was ambivalent about the Viet Nam War, supported Gulf War 1 and was nominally opposed to Iraq War 2 .... That being said the Iraq War has become the mother of all debacles, further damaging our standing in the region, alienating many of our former allies, and making it difficult to deal with gathering threats in Iran and Korea....

Everything about the Bush administration has radicalized me from Bush's support of the Gay Marriage Prohibition Amendment to his ill thought out plan for the peace in Iraq to his faux regular guy shtick...

Has the Bush administration radicalized you too?

[ClintonTyree]

1. I've always been on the radical side................

of course I was born in 1950 so the Viet Nam/ Civil Rights era was during my hay days.......lots of protesting going on there. Man that was fun, dangerous at times too, but that just added to the intrigue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I Was A Kid During The Viet Nam War....

nt

[sendero]

3. I hadda think about that...

... probably to an extent that is true. But it was really the Clinton impeachment that put me over the edge.

It was truly the low point of 20th century politics, and the persons responsible will eventually reap their earned karma. It looks like it's happening right now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. There Were Some Brave Republicans Who Opposed Impeachment

Arnold...

Gerald Ford....

Bob Dole...

Almo Houghton...


Peter King....

the late John Chaffe...

Susan Collins


Olympia Snowe



I will give credit where credit is do...

[baltodemvet]

4. No

He's radical: I'm moderate.

[mrbill]

6. the 1968 chicago convention riots........

and an incident with nixon security on the smu campus in August 1968...then there was that boston cop with a big stick with my name on it. read che's books.

on edit: tiny brain can't spell on the first try.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. When I Was In Grad School I Read All OF Michael Harrington's Work

I really think the best economic systyem is a system that incorporates the most positive aspects of capitalism and socialism and rids itself of the excesses of both systems...

[katinmn]

7. Yes.

It has made me a born again liberal.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. The Word Has Been Kicked Around So Much I Don't Know What It Means Anymore

nt

[JNelson6563]

8. Hell yeah!

It would take me hours to type it all in. Just know, I am radicalized in a serious way.

Julie--over-throw coordinator of the north :toast:

[BootinUp]

9. I could've had you write that

for me.

[flygal]

11. I was all charged up in 92 and then laid low for 96 and 2000...

But this one has my blood boiling. I'm mainly upset that so many Americans are being brainwashed! People were getting smart in 92, but now they want their news fed to them in-between the Scott Petersen trial!!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RafterMan]

20. Here ya go

http://www.sierratimes.com/04/10/20/carlworden.htm

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. "Bringing Democracy To A Region That Has Never Known It Is A Profoundly

Un-conservative Notion...

As the father of conservatism Edmund Burke said "we must take man as he in not the way we want him to be."


That's why Burke railed against the French Revoltion... He saw it's excesses which culminated in their attempt to "change time"..


Even prudential conservatives such as William Buckley and George Will are starting to see the folly of invading Iraq...

Too bad you won't be around to respond...

[flygal]

40. OMG I'm so new and vigin-like..

I can't believe I got freeped already! I feel dirty - ewwwwww!

[Dob Bole]

12. I was a conservative Republican before September 11...

Once I saw all the fearmongering and brainwashing that was going on, I was out for good. My conservatism stemmed mostly from my religion, which was at the time Southern Baptist. Now I attend a different, more progressive, Baptist church.

[German-Lefty]

24. Wow, I wish you could save my friend back in Texas

My problem is I can't stand religion, so I can't talk to most right wingers, and have them take me seriously.

What did it for you? What did you need to see that "gay marriage" or abortion weren't the most important social issues facing our country?

[Dob Bole]

29. Well, with me it was...

I really did believe that whole "compassionate conservative" thing, because I really do care about poor people, peace, the death penalty, etc. After September 11 I started meeting with a "religious left" group to pray for peace. Then I saw Bush doing the opposite of everything that he said he was going to do.

Not all evangelicals share that mindset. I can debate the others, and I usually do win and prove my point, but it doesn't really matter to them. The Bush-worship is too strong.

[blondeatlast]

31. Have your friend visit this site; a haven for Christians who don't

drink the Kool-Aid:

http://www.sojo.net/

Another great site:

http://www.interfaithalliance.org/

In particular, on IAs site, he should check this out:

http://www.interfaithalliance.org/News/News.cfm?ID=5494&c=37

It's work, but it's worth it. I've managed to bring a few wingers to see Christ's true philosophy is not represented by the likes of Robertson, Savage, and Falwell.

[Proud liberal Kat]

14. Definitely

I have always been a bit left of center, but the Bush Administration has given me a big wake-up call to the logical conclusion of the neo-conseervative agenda and to the fact that they aren't playing for peanuts! NO SURRENDER!
Kathy

[Shoeempress]

15. Always been a moderate Dem, always donated and voted. Period.

Been a volunteer with K/E since July, when I just couldn't stand the thought of 4 more years of lies and insanity. Been canvassing, phone banking, buttonholing people to volunteer, anything I can think of. And of course donating and Voting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Think Our Economic System Is Basically Sound...

The challenge is to have a strong social welfare system or safety net but not one so strong that it encourages sloth not that I think we have ever got anywhere close to that situation...

Clinton was right....Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare...

Bush has made a hash of our foreign policy....

[meow2u3]

41. I was a center-left independent before Smirk

and now I'm a radical center-left (deep center) Democrat! I changed my registration to Democratic after Selection 2000!

[tomfodw]

17. My parents were old lefties, so I grew up radicalized

My parents were YPSLs as teenagers (Young People's Socialist League, a leftwing Jewish organization) and members of the American Socialist Party (a leftwing anti-communist party) as adults. They worked for Norman Thomas on his 1948 and 1952 presidential campaigns, for Stevenson in 1956, for Kennedy in 1960, for Johnson in 1964, for Humphrey in 1968...well, you get the picture. (In fact, I'm named for Norman Thomas.) My dad worked for the Amalgamated Clothing Workers Union and for the AFL-CIO (and for Histadrut in Israel), so I grew up left. And stayed left.

Like the old 7-Up line about caffeine - "never had it, never will" - when it comes to being radicalized, I always had it, always will.

[RafterMan]

19. Completely

I am a hard core independent who refused to accept the ideological bundling that goes with party membership. I favor divided government, bureaucratic inertia and executives with a sense of their era.

My favorite 20th century politicians are Teddy Roosevelt, Huey Long, and Eisenhower. I favor a strongly progressive tax system, feeling that increasing aggregate demand favors both rich and poor.

On social issues, I am repulsed by a goverment that takes an interest in the personal affairs of its citizens, with the caveat that governments are instituted among men with the purpose of securing their individual liberties.

Overseas, I am an avid supporter of Pax Americana but believe the need to use overt force almost always represents a failure to properly employ more subtle means. I favor cooption over coercion, even when it looks unsavory. A strong military is good only if the president is strong enough to limit its use. I supported Gulf War I as an opposition to the ambitions of petty tyrants seeking to fill the vacuum left by the collapse of the Soviet Union. Had I known our military capital would be squandered in Somalia, our political capital lost with the assassination of Rabin and our moral capital dissipated in twelve years of sanctions stalemate, I would likely have opposed it. I was furious about Gulf War II from the moment I heard about it.

The Bush administration has been a boot stamping on my face, forever. I would rather see Bush captured and tried than bin Laden. He's damaged this country far more, and it was an inside job. Hell, yes, he's radicalized me.

[Mend]

21. It Started in 1963

I grew up in a strongly Democratic family although my father voted for Eisenhower twice...he really admired the man. People of my time were generally comfortable with both parties, as there were a lot of moderate politicians. It is still like that in N.Y., where no one has to move to Canada because Pataki gets elected governor. But then "they": killed President Kennedy, Rev. Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, Viet Nam, the kids at Kent State and Jackson State, and the hell under Nixon, capped by the spew of Lee Atwater. I was radicalized back then and continue to be appalled at how simple is for a country's freedom and soul to be lost.

[mmonk]

22. Yes

more radical in the sense that I refuse to yield the Constitution or Bill of Rights as some Americans have for "their own protection".

[depakid]

23. Nope Clinton did

by selling us out over and over- he pushed me (and a lot of my friends) solidly into the Green party.

[Orsino]

34. The persecution of Clinton did...

While I've always leaned left, it was the campaign to take down anyone whose name rhymed with "Clinton" that opened my eyes to the essential nastiness of America's new fascism. The consolidation of corporate media into a PR mechanism for Big Money, and the deregulating frenzy of Gingrich Republicans, blunted the edge of a minor economic boom, ensuring that the rich got much richer than anyone else.

That most people don't even blink at crimes (that make Clinton's wrongdoings look insignificant) scares me. The Democratic Party has been subverted by corporate money, and has become quite conservative. The GOP, in comparison, has turned into a political slash-and-burn outfit determined to leave no social programs standing in its mad rush to divvy up the treasury among America's millionaires. Along the way, they proved themselves all too willing to play the hate card, and behind their lip service to June Cleaver motherhood lies a contempt for women that disgusts me.

A Kerry win will only slow the death of democracy, IMO, but it might buy us time to make needed of-by-and-for-the-People changes. A Bush win will further cement the uber-rich's sense of entitlement, strengthen the chains that bind working Americans, and make change even less possible.

[newyawker99]

44. Hi Orsino!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kaitykaity]

26. Damn Straight.

Before the 2000 election and the SCOTUS disaster, I was
just your average "kind of pay attention but really don't
care" political consumer.

Not only did it radicalize me, but it made me feel like
I was crazy. It's hard to imagine it, but I would say
"But they didn't count all the votes," and people would
look at me funny.

But I NEVER moved on and I NEVER got over it, and I did
so much reading and so much homework that I've got my
political house in order now.

[Jim__]

27. Yes - I've always believed you have to accept democratic outcomes

but Bush's wars and the murders of tens of thousands of innocent people cannot be accepted - no matter how many people vote for it.

[Historic NY]

28. blood boiling - taking no Repug propaganda

Whoa I have to listen and read all kinds of crap Repug friends send and believe me I give them a double barrel back. I've alway been a believer that government is for all of the people and as such should look out for its citizens. During HS when the draft was on I was probably more radical then I am now. Over the many years I've served with many Repugs in various town positions, I've done them favors and likewise for me. Quid pro quo so to speak, I've supported those who I thought were honorable, but have damned those that were not. I come from a somewhat political family and even myself been elected locally twice. The funny thing most political friends view me as a conservative (fiscally) and others alway thought I was a Repuke (God forbid). Some yrs back I was asked to switch my party to run for the county legislature. My comment was, I do not believe I should compromise my beliefs and principels. The last 4yrs have certainly made me simmer, especially after the smear tactics they used on BC, my President. I could get militant but I've learned to restrain myself.

[lawladyprof]

30. And I am more anti-religion too

The more religion is beamed at me/crammed down my throat the less tolerant of it I become.

[Walt Starr]

32. Nope, it was Pat Robem$ome and Jerry Fartwell in 1982 that radicalized me!

and I've been radicalized ever since!

[Viking12]

33. I voted no because...

the Bush administration has forced me to temper my radicalism. I voted for Nader in 2000 and I have no regrets because Gore still won my state (MN at that time). I strongly believed in Nader's message and still do today, even if I can no longer support Nader the person. I was very outspoken about the corruption of US society by corporatism and the two party system that feeds it and is fed by it. However, at this time, I realize there more important and more immediate concerns than radically altering the system. I was ABB from 12/12/00 and have worked over the last four years to make Bush go away -- I understood that the best way to do so was to appeal to a moderate position. Pragmatic, logistical realities have subsumed my deep desires for radical change. In the process I've developed a great appreciation for John Kerry and will cast my vote for him with confidence. Perhaps when the country begins to change course away from the black hole towards which chimpy is steering us, I will resume my more radical advocacy, but when the ktichen is on fire you don't think about remodeling, you do what is necessary to put the fire out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I Still Believe In Clinton's Center Left Message...

which I tryed to represnt in my original post...

[primavera]

36. Shrub's certainly radicalized my understanding of Republicans

I've always been fairly left, not so much in terms of degree, but more in terms of consistency: I'm pro-environment, pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-education, I favor multilateral approaches to foreign policy, pretty much a liberal position across the board on every issue. Of course, by today's standards, I suppose that does make me a radical, but I cenrtainly have never thought of myself as one.

What has changed for me has been my tolerance of Republicans. Before der Führer, I had confidence that, although their views were plainly misguided, surely even Republicans must on some level feel that what they're doing serves the best interests of the country as a whole, and that sentiment at least deserved some respect. Nowadays, I basically believe that Republicans are just heartless, greedy, selfish bastards who don't give a shit about anything other than their own personal profit.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

37. shrub turned me from a registered independent to a registered democrat.

i will take sides against a party that so openly props up the dubster.

[MsTryska]

38. Yes. I'm a tough one for people who like to

compartmentalize to pin down.

I'm an independent, a fiscal moderate/sometimes conservative, social liberal, and i believe in guns, the death penalty, and the right to choose. Teddy Roosevelt is one of my favorite presidents.


In any case, i personally....don't think that this election has radicalized me, as my inherent beliefs haven't really changed, but the perception from my acquaintances on the other side is that i'm some sort of fringe loonie liberal radical socialist communist fascist kerry-shilling anti-american un-patriotic hippie tree-hugging feminazi who hates the baby jesus.

So i guess maybe i shouldn't have put yes on the poll. Because I haven't radicalized myself, but the NeoCONs have radicalized me.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

39. Radicalized friend's son. Studying Political Science instead of CompSci

Bush 2000 selection radicalized a friend's son who had been heading toward a computer career, but entered a top flight university to study Political Science.

[Anaxamander]

42. I've been left of center for a while

but I've become a super-liberal in the last 4 years. Congrats, repukes. I'm now your worst nightmare.:evilgrin:

[DrFunkenstein]

43. I Was Fist Pumping in 2001, But Calmed Down And Got Real

I realized that it was fine to have radical goals - a just society being a radical goal these days - but I slowly learned that you had to find reasonable means.

I liked Kerry from early on because I felt we shared this philosophy in common. I believe he is much further to the left than is politically viable at the national stage, and so he has learned to couch his convictions in incrementalism and bi-partisanship.

I live right outside of Manhattan, and most of my friends are of the fist-pumping variety. Many would rather be correct than affect change. This is my major concern about the progressive movement today.

Of course, as a good liberal, I question whether or not I would have been one of those jack-asses calling for "incremental" change on civil rights. I don't think so, but who knows. I suppose that was the actual Kennedy position.

But as things stand today, I think the country will be moved much further to the left through Kerry's bi-partisanship than from a candidate that would have entrenched the culture war further.

I guess, in brief, I'd consider myself an idealist at heart, a pragmatist in action. (Of course, that hardly means being lazy about attaining my idealist goals - I think it takes firm, consistent pressure on the political class to show them what is in their own best interest.)